Luke Brooks

[TheDaBoss]

@Geo

ever thought about a career in debating, 😀

 

[jirskyr]

but you then need to go out and recruit a top class organising half back. only way i see him here long term

Oh oh oh oh - don't think anyone disagrees with you, that if a top-class organising halfback becomes available, Tigers should go at them as hard as possible.

But who is this messiah? The best organising halfback in the game is Cronk and we decided to both a) could not accommodate his late-season decision timeframe, and b) probably were no chance anyway, and c) realistically needed something longer-term than 2 years, and d) would be competing with Roosters for the signature.

Munster is the best 5/8th at the moment and he's more of an attacker and threat generator than a top-class organiser. And he doesn't have to be, because he has Cameron Smith.

Then Luke Keary and Cody Walker, rounding out the 4 genuine high-talent, in-form halves. Both are attacking units and not really organisers.

So IMO 3/4 top halves in the comp are attackers, not organisers.

Who is the next on the rung for organising halfback? Probably Adam Reynolds and hence why he's in the frame for Origin. Does he consistently excel in pressure? No. Sometimes he does, others no. Does he have a great attacking game? No he doesn't, but he is an excellent tactical kicker and that's his main thing. Is he a defensive powerhouse? No.

Then... Nathan Cleary? No. Chad Townsend - he goes alright with a limited physical skillset, but nobody would say he's top flight and he's further out of Origin discussions than Brooksie. Brodie Croft? Blake Green? Ash Taylor? Michael Morgan? Mitchell Pearce? Mitchell Moses?

The cupboard is pretty bare bro and 16 clubs all want a top-class organising HB. But sure, next top-class organising HB that becomes available, by all means take a look. Until then, Luke Brooks.

 

[earl]

The numbers show that over the past season and a half he is a good first grade half, probably in the top five and certainly in the top 10.

Exactly. People are comparing him to Andrew Johns or Wally Lewis in their primes. Compare him to the current halves in the comp and he is pretty good.

 

[The_Patriot]

Lol people are so precious. Yes he is signed for 5 years and yes Maguire played a part in that.

I doubt he will be here at the end playing half back if he can't step up and start winning more than the odd game.

You guys crack me up, the old 1, 2 3.

The irony of you calling someone else precious but I digress.

There is a lot of delusion with those who dislike Brooks. Not because they dislike him, but because they are convinced he's constantly on thin ice, regardless of how much credit the coach gives or how much faith the club puts in him.

Two types of people in the world. Those who believe what they ate told and those that need to see it with their own eyes.

You say he is secure here long term and Maguire likes him. Others need to see Luke Brooks step into an on field leadership role and start winning us games.

You are correct in what you say, he is liked and locked in.

Won't mean a thing all the talk unless he steps up and leads this team. Maguire like every coach worth his salt will favour on field results over anything else in the end.

That's the thing...Brooks doesn't need to step in and win games on his own is what I keep hearing from his distractors...very few players in the game could do that regularly ...they are immortals...there are very few that do it now regularly on their own..

You say that Brooks has no leadership role on the field yet Farah came out in an article and said he often gets a bake from Brooks for not giving him the ball how and when he wants it ..he is also very vocal in game reviews and video sessions..

it's a team game..Brooks just needs to continue to improve the parts of his game that need improvement and build on the parts that are working well for him...contribute with his team mates around him to win games...which is what he did last year and has done again this year..he has contributed to every win..and tried in every loss...

If your expecting an Andrew Johns, Peter Sterling or Johnathon Thurston you will be dissapointed ..they don't come around everyday..but you will get a 1st Grade half who is prepared to work very hard on improving his game and the team ...

Thanks for the thought out and detailed response. Its refreshing.

I get where you are coming from. Luke Brooks is a reasonable quality footballer. He has improved and will continue to improve. Yes there are many other players in the comp not going as well as he is also.

My issue isnt Luke Brooks as such, yes i think he chokes under pressure. Hopefully that improves but my issue we are putting all our eggs in one basket.

We are going into our future, a future where desperately need to challenge for and or win premierships. We go into this future without a quality number 9. We go into this future with a fullback who wouldnt be in the top 10 in the comp. Our 5/8 while energetic also hasnt really shown he can lead us around the field when it counts. Add to that can remain injury free?

All we have is Luke Brooks.

At this stage of his career he hasnt stepped up to be a consistent team leader. he hasnt shown he can be an orginising half back who can handle the pressure of finals football. He is still up and down and there is a massive difference between his best and his worst..

I say move him to 5/8 where he is away from the orginising and where he is more naturally suited and go out and get a half back who can lead us around under pressure.

His fans will want to give him time to develop into that role but i for one just dont see it happening. At best he is a good quality running 5/8.

 

[2041]

@Geo This is the frustrating thing. The Brooks baggers nowadays have to resort to things that are basically unprovable to maintain the idea that he's no good. It's always vague claims that he's "not a leader" or "folds under pressure" which most of us don't think are true but are bloody hard to disprove.

It's like, what's the single most clutch moment in recent NRL history? Thurston's field goal in the grand final. Well, what if Hunt hadn't dropped the golden point kick off and the Broncos had marched down the other end and scored a field goal of their own? Who missed a conversion to win the game at the end of normal time? Would we be calling Thurston a choker who can't handle the big moment? I doubt it, because he's The Immortal JT. But this is narrative stuff, not empirically provable. If someone wants to believe that Brooks "isn't a leader" or "cracks under pressure" it's basically impossible to prove otherwise because there will always be moments where he doesn't take the ball or doesn't get the key play right - just like there are for any other player.

The fact is that if you look at what can be proved about Brooks, in the stats, he's a top-class half by virtually any measure - not a great, by any means, but certainly not something that any sensible coach would have in his list of top 10 priorities to change in a team. If you, as lots on here do, want to continue to believe that's not true you have to go to feelings and opinions instead of facts.

 

[The_Patriot]

but you then need to go out and recruit a top class organising half back. only way i see him here long term

Oh oh oh oh - don't think anyone disagrees with you, that if a top-class organising halfback becomes available, Tigers should go at them as hard as possible.

But who is this messiah? The best organising halfback in the game is Cronk and we decided to both a) could not accommodate his late-season decision timeframe, and b) probably were no chance anyway, and c) realistically needed something longer-term than 2 years, and d) would be competing with Roosters for the signature.

Munster is the best 5/8th at the moment and he's more of an attacker and threat generator than a top-class organiser. And he doesn't have to be, because he has Cameron Smith.

Then Luke Keary and Cody Walker, rounding out the 4 genuine high-talent, in-form halves. Both are attacking units and not really organisers.

So IMO 3/4 top halves in the comp are attackers, not organisers.

Who is the next on the rung for organising halfback? Probably Adam Reynolds and hence why he's in the frame for Origin. Does he consistently excel in pressure? No. Sometimes he does, others no. Does he have a great attacking game? No he doesn't, but he is an excellent tactical kicker and that's his main thing. Is he a defensive powerhouse? No.

Then... Nathan Cleary? No. Chad Townsend - he goes alright with a limited physical skillset, but nobody would say he's top flight and he's further out of Origin discussions than Brooksie. Brodie Croft? Blake Green? Ash Taylor? Michael Morgan? Mitchell Pearce? Mitchell Moses?

The cupboard is pretty bare bro and 16 clubs all want a top-class organising HB. But sure, next top-class organising HB that becomes available, by all means take a look. Until then, Luke Brooks.

The one guy you mentiond who i would look at would be Brody Croft. He may be a year away but out of those guys he could be the one who could lead a team around the park.

If not him this what recruiting is for. There are a number of good looking young halves coming through. Weve seen an explosion of them this year. I trust a guy like Maguire to sniff one out.

PS its not about talent its about mentality. Dont recruit the flashiest player or the biggest name recruit the guy with a strong leadership and kicking game who remains composed under pressure.

 

[2041]

@The_Patriot Did Brodie Croft remain composed under pressure when we played the Storm in Auckland last year? Because I seem to recall him letting a kick off bounce over his head so we could get the ball back and score, botching a field goal to give us a seven-tackle set we went ahead off, not being given the ball by Cam Smith in the closing minutes and then being dropped for three months. The grass is always greener, I suppose.

 

[The_Patriot]

@The_Patriot Did Brodie Croft remain composed under pressure when we played the Storm in Auckland last year? Because I seem to recall him letting a kick off bounce over his head so we could get the ball back and score, botching a field goal to give us a seven-tackle set we went ahead off, not being given the ball by Cam Smith in the closing minutes and then being dropped for three months. The grass is always greener, I suppose.

if you think thats the true representation of Brody Croft then thats ok. Each to their own.

I see a guy who is going to end up one of if not the best half backs in the game.

 

[cktiger]

@The_Patriot Did Brodie Croft remain composed under pressure when we played the Storm in Auckland last year? Because I seem to recall him letting a kick off bounce over his head so we could get the ball back and score, botching a field goal to give us a seven-tackle set we went ahead off, not being given the ball by Cam Smith in the closing minutes and then being dropped for three months. The grass is always greener, I suppose.


if you think thats the true representation of Brody Croft then thats ok. Each to their own.

I see a guy who is going to end up one of if not the best half backs in the game.

I think Brooksie has a few years and a lot more games up his sleeve than Croft.
All the people sticking up for Brooks seem to think that anyone who looks critically at his game has it in for him.
Truth is everyone wants him to put it all together ... its been over 120 first grade games now.
No matter what any of his support base say it can't change the fact he isn't great under pressure or a proven matchwinner.
He throws more hospital passes than anyone I can think of (poor Chris Lawrence) and drifts in and out of games.
He has a list of excuses a mile long as to why he hasn't performed... Farah, Marshall, poor forwards, poor outside backs, poor game plans.
On the upside, his defence has improved immensely, he's fast, he's still young.... plus he's getting a lot of experience.
Only consistent performances will get people off his back.
Hope he comes good and we'll all be happy!

 

[GNR4LIFE]

@The_Patriot Did Brodie Croft remain composed under pressure when we played the Storm in Auckland last year? Because I seem to recall him letting a kick off bounce over his head so we could get the ball back and score, botching a field goal to give us a seven-tackle set we went ahead off, not being given the ball by Cam Smith in the closing minutes and then being dropped for three months. The grass is always greener, I suppose.


if you think thats the true representation of Brody Croft then thats ok. Each to their own.

I see a guy who is going to end up one of if not the best half backs in the game.

I think Brooksie has a few years and a lot more games up his sleeve than Croft.
All the people sticking up for Brooks seem to think that anyone who looks critically at his game has it in for him.
Truth is everyone wants him to put it all together ... its been over 120 first grade games now.
No matter what any of his support base say it can't change the fact he isn't great under pressure or a proven matchwinner.
He throws more hospital passes than anyone I can think of (poor Chris Lawrence) and drifts in and out of games.
He has a list of excuses a mile long as to why he hasn't performed... Farah, Marshall, poor forwards, poor outside backs, poor game plans.
On the upside, his defence has improved immensely, he's fast, he's still young.... plus he's getting a lot of experience.
Only consistent performances will get people off his back.
Hope he comes good and we'll all be happy!

How many halfbacks in the comp are proven match winners? You could count them on one hand and still have fingers to spare.

 

[2041]

@The_Patriot Did Brodie Croft remain composed under pressure when we played the Storm in Auckland last year? Because I seem to recall him letting a kick off bounce over his head so we could get the ball back and score, botching a field goal to give us a seven-tackle set we went ahead off, not being given the ball by Cam Smith in the closing minutes and then being dropped for three months. The grass is always greener, I suppose.


if you think thats the true representation of Brody Croft then thats ok. Each to their own.

I see a guy who is going to end up one of if not the best half backs in the game.

I think Brooksie has a few years and a lot more games up his sleeve than Croft.
All the people sticking up for Brooks seem to think that anyone who looks critically at his game has it in for him.
Truth is everyone wants him to put it all together ... its been over 120 first grade games now.
No matter what any of his support base say it can't change the fact he isn't great under pressure or a proven matchwinner.
He throws more hospital passes than anyone I can think of (poor Chris Lawrence) and drifts in and out of games.
He has a list of excuses a mile long as to why he hasn't performed... Farah, Marshall, poor forwards, poor outside backs, poor game plans.
On the upside, his defence has improved immensely, he's fast, he's still young.... plus he's getting a lot of experience.
Only consistent performances will get people off his back.
Hope he comes good and we'll all be happy!

There are some people who have it in for him, to be fair - some on here want him dropped or shopped. But fine, let's say that's a crazy minority. I also don't agree with the other anti Brooks narrative, which is "I'd love it if he started to deliver". Because he is delivering. All but a handful of clubs in the comp would swap their halfback for Brooks like a shot. He's only underperforming if your benchmark is Andrew Johns.

 

[2041]

@The_Patriot Did Brodie Croft remain composed under pressure when we played the Storm in Auckland last year? Because I seem to recall him letting a kick off bounce over his head so we could get the ball back and score, botching a field goal to give us a seven-tackle set we went ahead off, not being given the ball by Cam Smith in the closing minutes and then being dropped for three months. The grass is always greener, I suppose.


if you think thats the true representation of Brody Croft then thats ok. Each to their own.

I see a guy who is going to end up one of if not the best half backs in the game.

I'm not saying Croft won't be good. What I'm saying is if your argument against Brooks is that he made X mistake in Y game you can do the same for any player you care to name.

I bet Brooks would love to play with Smith, Munster and one of the most potent back lines in the game.

I also note that Brooks outperforms Croft in virtually any statistical category you'd care to mention.

 

[earl]

He’s only underperforming if your benchmark is Andrew Johns.

I think that this is what a bunch of guys are expecting. They are expecting a player at that level because when I watch footy there aren't many halves better than Brooks and if they are better it isn't by a whole lot.

The benchmark has to be Andrew Johns, Wally Lewis etc.

 

[The_Patriot]

@The_Patriot Did Brodie Croft remain composed under pressure when we played the Storm in Auckland last year? Because I seem to recall him letting a kick off bounce over his head so we could get the ball back and score, botching a field goal to give us a seven-tackle set we went ahead off, not being given the ball by Cam Smith in the closing minutes and then being dropped for three months. The grass is always greener, I suppose.


if you think thats the true representation of Brody Croft then thats ok. Each to their own.

I see a guy who is going to end up one of if not the best half backs in the game.

I'm not saying Croft won't be good. What I'm saying is if your argument against Brooks is that he made X mistake in Y game you can do the same for any player you care to name.

Actually thats not what im saying at all. Ive written enough in this thread for someone to get a grasp of what im saying.

 

[jirskyr]

I also note that Brooks outperforms Croft in virtually any statistical category you’d care to mention.

Yeah I find that part funny. Sure there are players better than Brooks and there will continue to be as the years roll by, unless Brooks goes to another level again.

But Brodie Croft? He's alright but surely no upgrade on Brooks. We have to remember that we'd be buying Brodie Croft to insert into the Tigers roster and he's not bringing Smith, Munster and NAS with him.

I thought Brooks totally outplayed Croft last night and has done so on 100% of matches against Melbourne. Brooks was scoring tries, laying on attacking raids and his tactical kicking was really sharp. Croft spent most of the night distributing modestly and trying not to miss tackles.

I would genuinely expect that if you randomly surveyed NRL fans, there would not be a majority who would say Croft is a better prospect now or in the future than Luke Brooks. And it that were proven true, then why swap same for same?

 

[happy_tiger]

Again he still needs some forwards with punch and outside backs with speed

He wasn't bad last night ....but he needed to run the ball more and kicked for touch more often

Taking the Melbourne back 3 running game out would help greatly and give us tighter control of their sets of six

 

[Geo]

Again he still needs some forwards with punch and outside backs with speed

He wasn't bad last night ....but he needed to run the ball more and kicked for touch more often

Taking the Melbourne back 3 running game out would help greatly and give us tighter control of their sets of six

Yeah I know only ran for 113m way down on his 140-160m average..

Melbourne only made it out of their 20 twice on kick returns last night once was that final set..the tactic of targeting Vunivalululu with high kicks was right...very shakey most times once was duded of a knock on..the majority of the time the chase was spot on stopping him 10m out in a corner..

 

[Guest]

Again he still needs some forwards with punch and outside backs with speed

He wasn't bad last night ....but he needed to run the ball more and kicked for touch more often

Taking the Melbourne back 3 running game out would help greatly and give us tighter control of their sets of six

This. Brooks improvement over the past couple of seasons has coincided with an improvement (steady, not massive) in our forward pack. We've gone from being easy-beats up the middle to a team who can get in the grind for the most part and hold the ruck. We got bent backwards massively against the Eels and chooks and the result was plain for all to see. Last night I would argue we slightly won or at least held the middle and that's enough for Brooks to play well, in so far as he has more room to move and set his plays. We lack that genuine speed out wide though and that hurts him to an extent as he can throw a great pass but we don't have the speed to finish the job. There's those occasional plays close to the line where he pops the short ball which the opposition misses and we pick up a try but we lack that penetrating left edge backrower (Rowdy runs a good line admittedly), and Marsters while reasonably agile, is no speedster.

All things considered, I don't know how the other top halves would fare in our team at the moment compared to Luke...consider the forward packs the chooks, Souths, Storm have compared to us...

 

[happy_tiger]

Again he still needs some forwards with punch and outside backs with speed

He wasn't bad last night ....but he needed to run the ball more and kicked for touch more often

Taking the Melbourne back 3 running game out would help greatly and give us tighter control of their sets of six

Yeah I know only ran for 113m way down on his 140-160m average..

Melbourne only made it out of their 20 twice on kick returns last night once was that final set..the tactic of targeting Vunivalululu with high kicks was right...very shakey most times once was duded of a knock on..the majority of the time the chase was spot on stopping him 10m out in a corner..

Seeing one of those runs was a 40 metre intercept ....

My point still remains he didn't take the line on at speed at all

And the last kick should of been drilled into touch .....he should of called for the last ruck to be worked closer to the sideline

 

[Tim Sheens]

@happy_tiger and he shouldn't have had to be putting his hands in the air questioning why yet again, he didn't get the ball when he wanted it.