Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[frullens]

I am seriously lost today, Madge isn't getting it done but I don't believe in making change unless there is a very clear plan on what happens after that to make things better. Otherwise you are likely to end up in the same place in 2 years time. There are only 2 coaches that I think can walk in with a high probability of solving this problem and they won't be coming to the Wests Tigers there are serious problems with every other option. I really don't know what we should do to get out of this and I am arrogant enough to believe that if I can't see the solution than no one else can. The most hopeless I have ever felt about the team.

I think its best to stick with Madge.
How does changing another coach help? Unless they are Robinson or Bellamy. Even they would need 3 or 4 years to get there systems in place.

As gould says, the clubs at the bottom are there because they look for quick fix and not develop their own talent.

We can't rely on signings, we need to build from within. The most popular thread on this forum is the signings thread - even us as fans keep.looking for the one saviour signings to fix everything- coach or player. It ain't going to happen.

If we are to turn this around it has to be a team effort. Can't all sit with madge. Players, coaching staff, executives, board, all need to be pulling in the right direction.

Get amdge more help in the coaching team.
Give the club time to let the juniors come through with stability in the coaching system.

And let's see what happens.

I've watched the last 10 years of changing coaches bc players aren't putting in - and it hasn't worked. So let's try something different.

Have some trust, faith and hope.

Almost word for word this has been my opinion for a few years.

My opinion is shifting though.

The Tigers are putting systems in around the club that are bigger than the coach. Front office is profitable. Infrastructure is improving. Recruitment has been patient and excellent at getting the cream of available young talent.

Our lower grades are strong. Soon we will have Sheens playing a role driving growth in players and stability in pathways.

At that point, when the coach isn’t the corner stone holding up the club… then if we are not getting results we can ask three questions that should be asked of all people leaders;

1. How frequently do team members perform near the top of their potential
2. Are team members growing in impact
3. Can the leader attract talented people to their team

If the answers are not where they need to be we should start benching for an alternative coach.

We would only trigger a change when the alternate people leader (coach) is likely to get better outcomes to the 3 questions above.

Absolutely agree!

I'd also add that all the change with recruitment and juniors, etc has come about since Madge has come on board.

I'm not inside the club but I would think he has been driving a lot of that change and trying to build the structures that are bigger than him.

But at the beginning, it was just him and so it takes a lot of effort to be doing a lot of jobs.

I still think there is more support that needs to be put in place in the coaching structure for the top 30, to take the pressure and responsibility off madge. And just let him be the 'manager

Once we do that, it's easier to remove the figurehead but remain stable.

 

[coivtny]

o,Mr Sheens o Mr Sheen will clean the place up if he doesn't stick the fork into the rib cage,on a vandetta,thinking Madge will servive the spill,if only just 4 stabillity

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[yeahcaz]

Unless madge miraculously turns it around in the next 7 games, which I can’t see at all even with the kind draw, he has to go. Better to let him go now then have him go through a whole pre season and green light potential player signings and then get sacked early/mid way through the season therefore ruining next season as well. I really can’t bare to hear his excuses anymore and it’s so painful to watch that we are practically already on the backfoot for next season. If the bulldogs can bring in a forward and even a half decent 9, I don’t see how we don’t get the spoon next season even more so if Maguire is still there. I get there’s new rules and what not but I’ve truly never seen the team defend worse than we currently do

 

[TigerNeddyK]

I am seriously lost today, Madge isn't getting it done but I don't believe in making change unless there is a very clear plan on what happens after that to make things better. Otherwise you are likely to end up in the same place in 2 years time. There are only 2 coaches that I think can walk in with a high probability of solving this problem and they won't be coming to the Wests Tigers there are serious problems with every other option. I really don't know what we should do to get out of this and I am arrogant enough to believe that if I can't see the solution than no one else can. The most hopeless I have ever felt about the team.

U reckon Flanagan would come here or you do don’t rate him?

My problems with Flanagan come down to the issues he has had in the past. I don't think he should have a place in the game and I am not willing to change that opinion just because we need a coach.

Plus I am pretty sure even chock full of peptides our players still wouldn’t be able to get off their heels and push up when defending.

Yeah but they wont be sore the next day?

Also , our players would be more likely to be attracted to performance inhibitors, something to just get the floating through the annoying inconvenience of the game and closer to cashing their paychecks on the way to dominoes or the clubs? ?

 

[jirskyr]

I don't like being negative...and this season has been draining.

But the 100% bottom line is Maguire should be sat down and given a choice.

You let us appoint modern, young, assistants and who can run a game plan. No old, out of touch, yes men.

You let someone else coach the D.

A panel of 3 picks the team. You are excluded from sticking with "your men" and the team is held accountable.

OR

You are gone.

Dreaming

you're happy for him to continue as is, without changing the status quo? you're happy with how he's travelling as head coach?

I've said it a 1000 times, I believe the players are at fault for not putting in.

The club appear to think that as well, by the looks? Otherwise he would be gone?

Make believe contract demands, is not going to happen.

That's such a cop out. There is only one reason he's still there TW, and that's because the incompetent board that offered him an extension would look foolish for sacking him now. He's done a terrible job and will be lucky to last the season (thank god)

Sorry, you know all this, how?

Because I have eyes

WOW, Ok.:eyes:

Watch the games, look at the structures in place. It's diabolical. Why does he use Tamou for only 25 minutes - if that's all he can do dont play him at all? Why are we so passive in defence? Why do we have zero flair in attack?

Funny, i don’t think attack is our problem. I feel that our attack has looked better in recent times since Brooks has found a bit more form. If we could tackle we would win some footy games. Defence has and continues to be our biggest issue

I think our attack is pretty dreadful. It's 5 hit ups and bomb. There's no structure, just occasional pieces of good play from individuals.

Well interestingly, the last two years under Madge Tigers are averaging more points per game than any year since 2012. And in fact 2020 points scored per game was the highest since 2010.

Might not look great but they do score points.

 

[Merlot]

defence has been taken out of the game with d 6 again,Madge needs 2 get with the times,go back 2 when the club was great and just out score teams again

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Looks like the "playing kids" experiment is over?
In these last 3 games, the opposition looked so much bigger than our blokes imo?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/i-need-to-find-men-michael-maguire-flags-roster-overhaul-as-tigers-lashed-over-garbage-loss/news-story/3f1459ef2db3bfd091620a135ed296a1

**‘I need to find men’: Michael Maguire flags roster overhaul as Tigers lashed over ‘garbage’ loss​**

A frustrated Wests Tigers coach Michael Maguire has lashed his team’s “garbage” performance as they sunk to a new low at their spiritual home.

The Tigers treated defence like it was optional as the Rabbitohs piled on seven tries in a 38-22 training run.

It came off the back of Maguire’s men conceding an embarrassing 66 points in their previous outing against the Storm.

It was a good thing there were no fans at the ground because the players would have been booed off at Leichhardt Oval for the second time this season.

A month to the day after they stunned the Panthers, Michael Maguire’s side folded as the Origin-in-waiting halves of Cody Walker and Adam Reynolds picked them apart with consummate ease.

Speaking after the match Maguire said they needed to fix their diabolic starts to games.

“For three weeks, our starts have been ordinary. We have to be accountable for that,” he said.

“It’s sad to say that our start looked like a training run for Souths. It’s very disappointing to see us start like that.

“I need to find men who are going to be accountable for what we’re doing. That’s not acceptable for where we’re going with the club.

“Our first half was garbage.”

Maguire, who said there was no repeat of the silent treatment he gave his side at halftime during the Storm hammering, said he would use the rest of the season to work out which players had a future at the Tigers.

“I’ll be definitely having a look at the team,” Maguire said.

“They’ve got a week now where they can go away from footy for a while.

“I want to find the ones that are ready to take Wests Tigers forward.”

“We’re very focused on where we want to get to. Seeing a performance like that is disappointing because the effort around the organisation is a strong club.

Maguire has challenged his players' manhood publicly (or even privately)and that is the end for him. Football aside, that is unacceptable and he should be asked to attend the CEO's office this morning. No wonder we're viewed in less than positive light.

??

The players need to man up.
I think it's fair what Madge said.

Said he wants players that are hungry and want to lead the tigers to success.

Heads should roll after last night's game.

I'd be taking aim at Nofo, Mbye, anyone else.
All needing to be dropped.

He's trying to build a team and makes this comment in the press?

Absolutely unacceptable and counterproductive to what the WTs' Club is attempting to achieve.

I think you're misquoting him Paws, he didn't question anyone's manhood. He said he needs men who are going to be accountable...fair enough.



https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/i-need-to-find-men-michael-maguire-flags-roster-overhaul-as-tigers-lashed-over-garbage-loss/news-story/3f1459ef2db3bfd091620a135ed296a1

‘I need to find men’: Michael Maguire flags roster overhaul as Tigers lashed over ‘garbage’ loss​

You're quoting a headline, not Madge.

No that is incorrect. Read the article.

You can get your message across in a positive way without resorting to gender.

The workplace has changed over the last 30 or 40 years thankfully.

Read up on hegemonic masculinity.

 

[TigerTownSFS]

The defensive issues have to be fixed and there’s key players that have to go. Our problems start in the middle and shift the blame outside.

Liddle, Tamou, Leilua, Mbye, Douehi, Jet, Nofa are defensive liabilities. It’s basically from the middle to one entire side of the field that’s a major drama.

Simple solution Simpkin, Mikalele, Blore, Douhiei to 5/8, Talau, Nofa on the right edge.
Left side Utoikamanu, Garner, Brooks, Cooper, Maumalo on the left.

I get the dramas with Talau and dropping Leilua, Jet will cost us strike but as long as teams stroll through us it won’t matter.

The issues not really with Nofa as much but our markers are horrible defensively and I due to weak contact in the middle. I’d even play Twal on the right edge backrow if need be.

Something has to be done Madge has to select blokes that want to tackle. For mine Liddle, Mbye, Tamou, Leilua, Jet can’t be in the side at best off the bench.

Yeah I read Noffas tweet about A and B defenders not doing their jobs and then watched the highlights again from the south’s game. He is 100% correct that the right middle/edge players like LL and mbye are quiet passive and get caught trying to tackle the decoy which creates the 3 on 2 and a try in multiple situations. One try we only had 5 players on the far side of the field against about 7 south players and it was the Tamou and stephano who left a big gap under the posts which kept LL in no mans land as he couldn’t slide. I’m not an expert but something does look terrible in our defensive structures which results in bad reads and overlaps against a south team that was playing with lots of depth and with multiple running options for their halves to select and bamboozle the defence. I’m not sure if it’s a fatigue thing because it was happening quite early in the game also. It seems to be a technique thing. LL looks to have really fallen away the last 6 weeks. He was a bright spot but he always just looks exhausted now.

 

[The_Patriot]

Maguire calling out the playing squad and questioning their manhood could be a much bigger issue than a throw away line.

To me this is the first time Maguire has criticised his players in this way.

All the talk of losing the dressing room will start to come out now. He has been overly patient with this lot, praising them and supporting them.

What has changed?

Maybe what has changed is the guy has finally woken up to what most of already know. These players arent responding to him and they are not putting in the efforts required to play first grade.

Players tank/play poorly to put pressure on the coach. Coach finally wakes up to them not wanting him to be the coach.

This wont end well.

 

[rex2ce]

I am seriously lost today, Madge isn't getting it done but I don't believe in making change unless there is a very clear plan on what happens after that to make things better. Otherwise you are likely to end up in the same place in 2 years time. There are only 2 coaches that I think can walk in with a high probability of solving this problem and they won't be coming to the Wests Tigers there are serious problems with every other option. I really don't know what we should do to get out of this and I am arrogant enough to believe that if I can't see the solution than no one else can. The most hopeless I have ever felt about the team.

U reckon Flanagan would come here or you do don’t rate him?

My problems with Flanagan come down to the issues he has had in the past. I don't think he should have a place in the game and I am not willing to change that opinion just because we need a coach.

What about Bellamy,involved in systematic cap cheating, should he be in the game ?

 

[Needaname]

I just think this bunch still doesn’t get it.
Either they are just conning us or they really don’t have the desire.
Apparently they took a lot out of the Storm loss.
There was video of 4 key players, Tamou, MBye, Brooks, Doueihi. Granted Doueihi didn’t play so he wasn’t directly responsible for the result but it still resonated with him.
The main take away from each players chat was that we have the wrong attitude. Pressed further whether attitude is an excuse when you’ve got a season on the line not one of elaborated on what they meant.
They also mentioned how good the Storm were and that they play free and fast.
But the next thing they said was along the lines of they train that way every day.
It was almost as if they thought the Storm stuff about all week and all their talented players just turn it on.
So the players adopted a punishment system. But they are choosing to keep it in house. Why? Is it demeaning? Who knows what it is but part of being accountable about something is owning up to it. Which it seems they have, and they’ve implemented a solution, which they will keep to themselves, so who then can keep them accountable?
Finally. Madge. Morris. Bennett. Bellamy. Robinson. Does it really matter who it is if you have a team of guys that think the way to win the comp is to slack about and just perform on the day?
It shouldn’t matter who the coach is, the players need to have that burning desire to play football for 80mins every week. What does the culture matter etc. These guys were all young players that got to this stage by picking up a bouncing footy, tucking it under their arm with a big smile on their face and either colliding into their mates or trying to out run them.
Where has that gone?

 

[PJ_]

I'll let you guys know if I hear anything at band practice today.
Apparently the lead guitarist is connected with the club.


🤣🤣

 

[happy_tiger]

I don't like being negative...and this season has been draining.

But the 100% bottom line is Maguire should be sat down and given a choice.

You let us appoint modern, young, assistants and who can run a game plan. No old, out of touch, yes men.

You let someone else coach the D.

A panel of 3 picks the team. You are excluded from sticking with "your men" and the team is held accountable.

OR

You are gone.

Dreaming

you're happy for him to continue as is, without changing the status quo? you're happy with how he's travelling as head coach?

I've said it a 1000 times, I believe the players are at fault for not putting in.

The club appear to think that as well, by the looks? Otherwise he would be gone?

Make believe contract demands, is not going to happen.

That's such a cop out. There is only one reason he's still there TW, and that's because the incompetent board that offered him an extension would look foolish for sacking him now. He's done a terrible job and will be lucky to last the season (thank god)

Sorry, you know all this, how?

Because I have eyes

WOW, Ok.:eyes:

Watch the games, look at the structures in place. It's diabolical. Why does he use Tamou for only 25 minutes - if that's all he can do dont play him at all? Why are we so passive in defence? Why do we have zero flair in attack?

Funny, i don’t think attack is our problem. I feel that our attack has looked better in recent times since Brooks has found a bit more form. If we could tackle we would win some footy games. Defence has and continues to be our biggest issue

I think our attack is pretty dreadful. It's 5 hit ups and bomb. There's no structure, just occasional pieces of good play from individuals.

Well interestingly, the last two years under Madge Tigers are averaging more points per game than any year since 2012. And in fact 2020 points scored per game was the highest since 2010.

Might not look great but they do score points.

But measuring anything from 2020 onwards is basically giving a false positive ...wouldn't you agree ??

 

[Telltails]

Looks like the "playing kids" experiment is over?
In these last 3 games, the opposition looked so much bigger than our blokes imo?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/i-need-to-find-men-michael-maguire-flags-roster-overhaul-as-tigers-lashed-over-garbage-loss/news-story/3f1459ef2db3bfd091620a135ed296a1

**‘I need to find men’: Michael Maguire flags roster overhaul as Tigers lashed over ‘garbage’ loss​**

A frustrated Wests Tigers coach Michael Maguire has lashed his team’s “garbage” performance as they sunk to a new low at their spiritual home.

The Tigers treated defence like it was optional as the Rabbitohs piled on seven tries in a 38-22 training run.

It came off the back of Maguire’s men conceding an embarrassing 66 points in their previous outing against the Storm.

It was a good thing there were no fans at the ground because the players would have been booed off at Leichhardt Oval for the second time this season.

A month to the day after they stunned the Panthers, Michael Maguire’s side folded as the Origin-in-waiting halves of Cody Walker and Adam Reynolds picked them apart with consummate ease.

Speaking after the match Maguire said they needed to fix their diabolic starts to games.

“For three weeks, our starts have been ordinary. We have to be accountable for that,” he said.

“It’s sad to say that our start looked like a training run for Souths. It’s very disappointing to see us start like that.

“I need to find men who are going to be accountable for what we’re doing. That’s not acceptable for where we’re going with the club.

“Our first half was garbage.”

Maguire, who said there was no repeat of the silent treatment he gave his side at halftime during the Storm hammering, said he would use the rest of the season to work out which players had a future at the Tigers.

“I’ll be definitely having a look at the team,” Maguire said.

“They’ve got a week now where they can go away from footy for a while.

“I want to find the ones that are ready to take Wests Tigers forward.”

“We’re very focused on where we want to get to. Seeing a performance like that is disappointing because the effort around the organisation is a strong club.

Maguire has challenged his players' manhood publicly (or even privately)and that is the end for him. Football aside, that is unacceptable and he should be asked to attend the CEO's office this morning. No wonder we're viewed in less than positive light.

??

The players need to man up.
I think it's fair what Madge said.

Said he wants players that are hungry and want to lead the tigers to success.

Heads should roll after last night's game.

I'd be taking aim at Nofo, Mbye, anyone else.
All needing to be dropped.

He's trying to build a team and makes this comment in the press?

Absolutely unacceptable and counterproductive to what the WTs' Club is attempting to achieve.

I think you're misquoting him Paws, he didn't question anyone's manhood. He said he needs men who are going to be accountable...fair enough.



https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/i-need-to-find-men-michael-maguire-flags-roster-overhaul-as-tigers-lashed-over-garbage-loss/news-story/3f1459ef2db3bfd091620a135ed296a1

‘I need to find men’: Michael Maguire flags roster overhaul as Tigers lashed over ‘garbage’ loss​

You're quoting a headline, not Madge.

No that is incorrect. Read the article.

You can get your message across in a positive way without resorting to gender.

The workplace has changed over the last 30 or 40 years thankfully.

Read up on hegemonic masculinity.

Leave it to the players Paws, they have got this.

 

[Tcat]

I'll let you guys know if I hear anything at band practice today.
Apparently the lead guitarist is connected with the club.


🤣🤣

More like the Partridge Family

 

[Milky]

I reckon Madge will walk away

 

[Furious1]

I have to ask, at what point does Pascoe feel any heat? He was the one who signed off on the massive contracts of Mbye, Reynolds and Packer, seems to be involved in all the attempts to sign any big name players ( and is therefore part of that failure) in his 6 years here has seen the club fined 750k ( 375k suspended) a salary cap penalty of 320k for both the 2019 and 2020 seasons been suspended for 6 months and finally still hasn't been able to sort out the home ground fiasco.

There is no doubt he has done some good things, COE being his crowning glory, but in a decade of non finals appearances, he has been here for more than half of that and in that time we have had 3 coaches and an almost entire roster turnover with the same results. Theres only 2 constants in that time frame, the board and Pascoe.

Last time i looked the CEO is responsible for the overall performance of an organisation and considering we are an NRL club i would have thought winning football games would be our core business.

 

[innsaneink]

Maguire calling out the playing squad and questioning their manhood could be a much bigger issue than a throw away line.

To me this is the first time Maguire has criticised his players in this way.

All the talk of losing the dressing room will start to come out now. He has been overly patient with this lot, praising them and supporting them.

What has changed?

Maybe what has changed is the guy has finally woken up to what most of already know. These players arent responding to him and they are not putting in the efforts required to play first grade.

Players tank/play poorly to put pressure on the coach. Coach finally wakes up to them not wanting him to be the coach.

This wont end well.

Thats a good point...along with "Nofos" tweet...if it relly was his acct, im not sure, plenty of fakes out there

Its all been kept in-house up til now

Im interested in what happened at half time, nine commentators mentioned in a madge interview before the game theyd been working on new D structure, it was evident in the first 40 it wasnt working whatever it was they were doing...the commentators (sterlo/Johns) were very critical
They changed it around in the 2nd half, im wondering if the players took it upon themselves or if this different defence strategy was from the coach

 

[yeahcaz]

I have to ask, at what point does Pascoe feel any heat? He was the one who signed off on the massive contracts of Mbye, Reynolds and Packer, seems to be involved in all the attempts to sign any big name players ( and is therefore part of that failure) in his 6 years here has seen the club fined 750k ( 375k suspended) a salary cap penalty of 320k for both the 2019 and 2020 seasons been suspended for 6 months and finally still hasn't been able to sort out the home ground fiasco.

There is no doubt he has done some good things, COE being his crowning glory, but in a decade of non finals appearances, he has been here for more than half of that and in that time we have had 3 coaches and an almost entire roster turnover with the same results. Theres only 2 constants in that time frame, the board and Pascoe.

Last time i looked the CEO is responsible for the overall performance of an organisation and considering we are an NRL club i would have thought winning football games would be our core business.

He doesn’t give a rats imo. Only time you hear from him is with player retention and recruitment which seems ridiculous to me

 

[DJG]

If you were a player and watched the footy over the weekend, with the Storm thrashing the Roosters 46-0, you'd assume that maybe the Storm are freaky good and ATLEAST we could score 16 points against them.

Obviously the team did not see this, but as a fan I did see this and this made me pumped for the weekend.

The reality is I think that these guys don't like each other? After the Storm game, Tamou came out and said that the team was bickering with eachother.. but from what I seen on the weekend was the players (Mbye especially) giving it to people non-respectfully in my eyes.