Madge vs JT vs Potter vs Cleary

[Sco77y]

Not sure how many times I’ve said that but you can’t expect instant results. Our cap is screwed, no finals in 9 years, our roster is big average and no big name players want to be here.

What Madge is going takes time and unfortunately as a consequence we will struggle on the field for a while longer. It’s a lot better than Cleary who screwed up our entire salary cap and we could barely score a point under him.

Gotta wait until the rebuild is complete to judge the coach fully

What do you mean by instant? 9 years since finals? almost
2 full seasons of Maguire in charge? Some get jack of being told to be patient. I remember I was told to be patient in 2014. I even remember the night. We’d been rolled by Manly at Brookie. Things were going to be great in a year or two. They weren’t. So what reason do I have to believe it now? Cos Madge hasn’t had a hand in signing 6 or 7 players to round out his squad? That’s going to finally make those calls for patience a reality. Really?

I'm afraid being patient is our only option

I hate it just like you do

But changing coaches will just keep us in an endless cycle of pain

Who said anything about changing coaches. This thread is about trying to get people to realise we aren’t any better off than with the previous 3.

I totally agree, and have always thought this - in the sense that our previous coaches probably never realised their potential and could well have improved our clubs position. Potter didn’t get a fair crack, Taylor made his position untenable maybe only through trying to make the hard calls, and Ivan dogged it, so we were unlucky there. But none of them had enough time to make their mark and reap the benefits of their groundwork.

 

[avocadoontoast]

As for Ivan I actually think he learned from his mistakes with us and has made some astute signings at Penrith and given youth a chance which he never did here. They will probably win the premiership, I wish we had a juniors system like theirs

It’s also been reported that he walked into a club running like a well oiled machine after Gould laid the groundwork. I’m sure Ivan is also reaping the benefits of this and the general position the club found itself in when he arrived.

The moves he made last year were great, gone from 10th to being the best team in the premiership. Cleary has done a great job.

 

[cochise]

Not sure how many times I’ve said that but you can’t expect instant results. Our cap is screwed, no finals in 9 years, our roster is big average and no big name players want to be here.

What Madge is going takes time and unfortunately as a consequence we will struggle on the field for a while longer. It’s a lot better than Cleary who screwed up our entire salary cap and we could barely score a point under him.

Gotta wait until the rebuild is complete to judge the coach fully

What do you mean by instant? 9 years since finals? almost
2 full seasons of Maguire in charge? Some get jack of being told to be patient. I remember I was told to be patient in 2014. I even remember the night. We’d been rolled by Manly at Brookie. Things were going to be great in a year or two. They weren’t. So what reason do I have to believe it now? Cos Madge hasn’t had a hand in signing 6 or 7 players to round out his squad? That’s going to finally make those calls for patience a reality. Really?

9 years since we’ve made finals, but Madge has only been here 18 months. I know it’s hard to stay patient after 9 years but you have to think about it like we started over just a season And a half ago

If you look at the bigger picture Madge is setting us up to go good in the future and slowly building his squad. Gonna suck until that’s completed but that’s the only way, unless you’d prefer the Cleary style of signing average players on huge contracts to try and go for an instant fix

Our rebuild has been going so long we are now back where we started, hoping for potential to pull us through. We tried that in the early days and heavily invested in young players with potential. That is what a lot of people are saying we are doing now, we back to hoping moving forward that an inexperienced spine will save us. After the debacle with the big 4 we decided to spend on experience and now that failed as well its back to lets sign promising juniors. Hopefully it works this time but in reality we need to be doing both. We need to sign good experienced players to compliment the young potential. The concern i have is our recruitment seems way too reactive and seems to focus on whoever other clubs decide to let go mid contract.

 

[happy_tiger]

Are we really any better off with Madge. Let me say, this isn’t a call to sack the guy, because what better option would be available to us. However, is he really taking us to heights that we failed to reach with the previous 3? Because from where I am sitting, the results are the same.

It has to be said, that for 18 months we’ve been waxing on how much of an upgrade Madge was over Cleary. When you see how the Panthers are going, was it really. Again, not saying Madge is hopeless, but he’s not doing anything that the 3 others didn’t do. Potter and JT had no salary cap to work with yet got the same results, yet didn’t have that excuse. Madge has signed something like 22-23 players out of 30, and he needs time. It makes no sense.

I bet we are paying Madge far more than 2 of the 3 mentioned

The whole club is a mess still ...we need to pick a year ...strip it all back to it's core and start again

 

[the_third]

Cleary showed his true colours by complaining about refs trying to get Canberra back into the game. He’s top of the table, 8 wins in a row, and won convincingly.

He’s got nothing on Madge

 

[dazza65]

There are no better coaches available or any better than Maguire in my opinion.

So long as he really wants to be here, the best thing the board can do is sign him now to an immediate long term deal and give him cart blanche to do what he needs to do.

Any of the old boys club, players, staff who supposedly don’t “like” him or are just turning up for a pay check etc etc can be moved on or leave.

Like a previous poster said, we have an image problem and need stability at board level and coaching/player management level that will unfortunately take time to cut out all of the dead tissue and rebuild.

I know, I hate the word “rebuild” as well but the last 8 years or so have NOT been rebuilding as the core structure has never been torn down and rebuilt, we have had dodgy tradesmen come in and plaster over the cracks - that is all.

Madge is the “bomb” both literally and figuratively IMHO.

It has to be so for us to ever be a force again.

 

[hobbo1]

Are we really any better off with Madge. Let me say, this isn’t a call to sack the guy, because what better option would be available to us. However, is he really taking us to heights that we failed to reach with the previous 3? Because from where I am sitting, the results are the same.

It has to be said, that for 18 months we’ve been waxing on how much of an upgrade Madge was over Cleary. When you see how the Panthers are going, was it really. Again, not saying Madge is hopeless, but he’s not doing anything that the 3 others didn’t do. Potter and JT had no salary cap to work with yet got the same results, yet didn’t have that excuse. Madge has signed something like 22-23 players out of 30, and he needs time. It makes no sense.

I bet we are paying Madge far more than 2 of the 3 mentioned

The whole club is a mess still ...we need to pick a year ...strip it all back to it's core and start again

Pick a year then !
Don’t keep me in suspense ?

 

[Spud_Murphy]

Cleary showed his true colours by complaining about refs trying to get Canberra back into the game. He’s top of the table, 8 wins in a row, and won convincingly.

He’s got nothing on Madge

Lol yes I must admit he has done a good job with Penrith. I honestly thought that they had missed their premiership window when they had a great side for a couple of years under Griffin, but faltered in the finals, then sacked the coach and lost some really good players in the process - i.e. RCG, CHN, DWZ, Blake, Maloney & Moylan.

However, they have unearthed some really good juniors who are actually realising their potential in the top grade, they’re playing great footy. They have an awesome forward pack, which is a good mix of experience and youth, James Tamou is a very good captain who is still going strong and is highly underrated and of course Cleary junior has now gone to the next level of halfback play, after being quite inconsistent early on.

Can this all be attributed to Cleary’s coaching? Some of it yes, but some of it can also be attributed to the groundwork done by Gould and the club in general over the years. Getting rid of some of the ‘deadwood’ mentioned above (many of whom are actually going great at other clubs btw) has opened the opportunity for other youngsters to make their mark, players who are perhaps more suited to Penrith’s style of play under Cleary.

Penrith were once my second favourite team, I still have nothing but admiration for the team, but sadly my disgust at what Cleary Sr and Penrith’s administration did to our club has still left a bad taste in my mouth so I am finding it hard to wish them Premiership success anytime soon. So two straight losses and an ignominious crash out of the finals, after having such a great regular season, would be a bit of karma for this long suffering Wets Tigers supporter.

 

[Honkylips]

Cleary showed his true colours by complaining about refs trying to get Canberra back into the game. He’s top of the table, 8 wins in a row, and won convincingly.

He’s got nothing on Madge

Lol yes I must admit he has done a good job with Penrith. I honestly thought that they had missed their premiership window when they had a great side for a couple of years under Griffin, but faltered in the finals, then sacked the coach and lost some really good players in the process - i.e. RCG, CHN, DWZ, Blake, Maloney & Moylan.

However, they have unearthed some really good juniors who are actually realising their potential in the top grade, they’re playing great footy. They have an awesome forward pack, which is a good mix of experience and youth, James Tamou is a very good captain who is still going strong and is highly underrated and of course Cleary junior has now gone to the next level of halfback play, after being quite inconsistent early on.

Can this all be attributed to Cleary’s coaching? Some of it yes, but some of it can also be attributed to the groundwork done by Gould and the club in general over the years. Getting rid of some of the ‘deadwood’ mentioned above (many of whom are actually going great at other clubs btw) has opened the opportunity for other youngsters to make their mark, players who are perhaps more suited to Penrith’s style of play under Cleary.

Penrith were once my second favourite team, I still have nothing but admiration for the team, but sadly my disgust at what Cleary Sr and Penrith’s administration did to our club has still left a bad taste in my mouth so I am finding it hard to wish them Premiership success anytime soon. So two straight losses and an ignominious crash out of the finals, after having such a great regular season, would be a bit of karma for this long suffering Wets Tigers supporter.

Penrith were also once my second favorite team as I grew up out that way. Now they are down with Parra and Manly on my spectrum of most hated

 

[tiger05premier]

There are no better coaches available or any better than Maguire in my opinion.

So long as he really wants to be here, the best thing the board can do is sign him now to an immediate long term deal and give him cart blanche to do what he needs to do.

Any of the old boys club, players, staff who supposedly don’t “like” him or are just turning up for a pay check etc etc can be moved on or leave.

Like a previous poster said, we have an image problem and need stability at board level and coaching/player management level that will unfortunately take time to cut out all of the dead tissue and rebuild.

I know, I hate the word “rebuild” as well but the last 8 years or so have NOT been rebuilding as the core structure has never been torn down and rebuilt, we have had dodgy tradesmen come in and plaster over the cracks - that is all.

Madge is the “bomb” both literally and figuratively IMHO.

It has to be so for us to ever be a force again.

Good post

Each of our players are currently running their future valued into the ground if they have in fact any NRL future at all

Madge has a plan and that plan will see each member of the current squad paid accordingly if they are lucky enough to stay or be set free to find a new club

And let's face it if you are set free by the tiger's who finish in the bottom 8 yet again you are not going to have clubs lining up with $$$$$ ready to throw your way

You will be on minimum wage and playing your heart out week to week just to survive and hoping you can persuade a club that you are worth more

 

[TrueTiger]

Madge is our coach he is doing his job best he can with what he has.....

J.T was arrogant and had the attitude of my way or the highway,not a man managing coach...

Potter wasnt given the chance to show his coaching prowess because of internal dramas etc..he should have been the coach we needed at the time..good man manager and coaching stratergies that were never exposed...

 

[cochise]

I hope Madge has a plan

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I hope Madge has a plan

Every coach has a plan. It’s such waffle when someone goes on about Madge would have a plan. It’s like me having a plan when I go to work tomorrow. It’s a real buzzword that has become popular over the years.

 

[Lauren]

The only thing I'll give to Cleary was his ability to build trust within the group. They seemed more unified and we saw a belief in them that we hadn't seen for quite some time. On the other hand, he also made the whole WT entity look amateurish - due to his role with recruitment and retention and leaving us with great financial burdens.
Potter never got a chance and we're all too familiar with JTs mismanagement with the team.

Madge is a topline coach IMO.
He's a visionary who is more goal oriented and seems highly observant and focused. Plus he models a successful attitude in his principles and beliefs.
He's inherited a poorly constructed WT team and I think the only thing he can be faulted for is his ability to be over compassionate with them. Because in this we can see his apparent attempt in trying to rectify issues that players themselves should be working on personally.

 

[Harvey]

WT have an image problem and constant turn over of coaches is a major contributor.

I would sign Maguire long term and let him rebuild the club unless we can attract Bellamy or Trent Robinson which is wishful thinking and not reality.

Recruit gun juniors from other clubs and mold them into a long term project. Let's associate the club with top schools for development programs including country kids.

Until we have success no top player will come to our club and like many sick of paying overs for has beens which gets us into cap issues.

We can't have recent history keep repeating itself. Sign of madness.

Maguire is battling years of Boys clubs mentally and just competing is good enough.

The greatest coaches in history couldn't turn our current squad into champions as they don't have the ability or skill sets. They occasionally put in 100% and jag a win but really false hope.

Coming 9th each year to me is a failure. We need to be top 4 and playing deep into September on a regular basis.

I feel there is still so much pain to come in future years but as a loyal WT supporter I will hang around. I put up with the Western Suburbs crap since 1977 so use to failure.

Good post, I am just not sure that Macguire is the coach to mold young players into top line first graders.

 

[cochise]

I hope Madge has a plan

Every coach has a plan. It’s such waffle when someone goes on about Madge would have a plan. It’s like me having a plan when I go to work tomorrow. It’s a real buzzword that has become popular over the years.

100% mate, no one knows if this plan is any good or if is going the way he wants. I have seen that many good plans fail because unforeseen circumstances, the really only measure of success those outside the club can see is results and they do not appear to be going the right way at them moment.

 

[Speed2burn]

Are we really any better off with Madge. Let me say, this isn’t a call to sack the guy, because what better option would be available to us. However, is he really taking us to heights that we failed to reach with the previous 3? Because from where I am sitting, the results are the same.

It has to be said, that for 18 months we’ve been waxing on how much of an upgrade Madge was over Cleary. When you see how the Panthers are going, was it really. Again, not saying Madge is hopeless, but he’s not doing anything that the 3 others didn’t do. Potter and JT had no salary cap to work with yet got the same results, yet didn’t have that excuse. Madge has signed something like 22-23 players out of 30, and he needs time. It makes no sense.

Barrett is the main cog behind penrith

Cleary is a dud coach and bloke to boot

 

[sheer64]

Current circumstances are dictated by a calculated and successful move to make Penrith the Western Sydney Team. Madge is a good honest coach and on current form, stars aligning, I wish we kept;

Harry
LL
Nofo
Tommy T
Twal
Blore
Huth

&

Madge

and got rid of the rest.

 

[hobbo1]

WT have an image problem and constant turn over of coaches is a major contributor.

I would sign Maguire long term and let him rebuild the club unless we can attract Bellamy or Trent Robinson which is wishful thinking and not reality.

Recruit gun juniors from other clubs and mold them into a long term project. Let's associate the club with top schools for development programs including country kids.

Until we have success no top player will come to our club and like many sick of paying overs for has beens which gets us into cap issues.

We can't have recent history keep repeating itself. Sign of madness.

Maguire is battling years of Boys clubs mentally and just competing is good enough.

The greatest coaches in history couldn't turn our current squad into champions as they don't have the ability or skill sets. They occasionally put in 100% and jag a win but really false hope.

Coming 9th each year to me is a failure. We need to be top 4 and playing deep into September on a regular basis.

I feel there is still so much pain to come in future years but as a loyal WT supporter I will hang around. I put up with the Western Suburbs crap since 1977 so use to failure.

Good post, I am just not sure that Macguire is the coach to mold young players into top line first graders.

This squad ain’t suited to Madge’s hard arse approach..
They look knackered after the warm up and seem to be playing in fear ...

 

[the_third]

Cleary showed his true colours by complaining about refs trying to get Canberra back into the game. He’s top of the table, 8 wins in a row, and won convincingly.

He’s got nothing on Madge

Lol yes I must admit he has done a good job with Penrith. I honestly thought that they had missed their premiership window when they had a great side for a couple of years under Griffin, but faltered in the finals, then sacked the coach and lost some really good players in the process - i.e. RCG, CHN, DWZ, Blake, Maloney & Moylan.

However, they have unearthed some really good juniors who are actually realising their potential in the top grade, they’re playing great footy. They have an awesome forward pack, which is a good mix of experience and youth, James Tamou is a very good captain who is still going strong and is highly underrated and of course Cleary junior has now gone to the next level of halfback play, after being quite inconsistent early on.

Can this all be attributed to Cleary’s coaching? Some of it yes, but some of it can also be attributed to the groundwork done by Gould and the club in general over the years. Getting rid of some of the ‘deadwood’ mentioned above (many of whom are actually going great at other clubs btw) has opened the opportunity for other youngsters to make their mark, players who are perhaps more suited to Penrith’s style of play under Cleary.

Penrith were once my second favourite team, I still have nothing but admiration for the team, but sadly my disgust at what Cleary Sr and Penrith’s administration did to our club has still left a bad taste in my mouth so I am finding it hard to wish them Premiership success anytime soon. So two straight losses and an ignominious crash out of the finals, after having such a great regular season, would be a bit of karma for this long suffering Wets Tigers supporter.

Penrith were rubbish until Barrett sorted out the attack. Cleary is a numpty