InBenjiWeTrust
Well-known member
IMHO, we have ATM a few better young props than Groat: Seumanufagai, Fotuaika, Sue, Brown and perhaps
Buchanan. Hopefully he can and will improve.
Buchanan. Hopefully he can and will improve.
Matt Groat?
- Thread starter Shooshmeister
- Start date
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
@Ed Reschs said:
He did and he cost us big time in the final against the Warriors. Is it allowed to not rate a player? or is it because he's a Wests player we all must see him as a rising star? Not every young player who comes into fg lasts the journey. IMO Groat will be ones of those players. If having having that opinion is so shocking that it makes me a keyboard warrior to you then so be it
MacDougall
New member
Groat was going okay at the back end of 2011 up until the very last match. He struggled a lot in 2012 when he was asked to be a starting prop alongside another youngster (albeit one who handled it remarkably well). People were saying both of them were weak and lacked heart and what not but if you look back, even during our hopeless start to the year, Woods was actually going great and it was Groat + no real input from the other forwards either that caused us to get rolled through. Then he got absolutely floored in a tackle that wasn't intentional despite what some of you here think, but certainly was illegal. He didn't play again in first grade in 2012 and actually got injured and missed all but 2 matches in the NYC as well, both of which he was clearly still injured in. To say he suffered a loss of confidence is rich because we didn't actually see him play at 100% afterwards, so he may well have been perfectly fine mentally.
From the reports I have heard Groat is looking and behaving like a guy with a point to prove. He looks bigger and he is training well. He has put in some impressive performances in first grade, especially considering he was actually 18 at the time and there is a reason that he is one of the most decorated junior rep players in the current era. Comparing him to Woods is unfair. Woods is a different animal who not only handles it but often dominates in the top grade amongst men. I think it's because of his footwork and agility more than anything, which allows him to get between defenders and minimise the impact a defender can hit him with and also the leverage they can gain on him which allows him to get more balance in the impact and often roll forward further from the point of impact. Groat is a different prop, and is used to being stronger and bigger than the guys he runs at. More like a Matty Scott, whereas Woods is a Tamou. When he came up to grade, the style that he brought with him made it tough for him because he was running at the toughest blokes in the toughest comp in the world. That's not to suggest he won't end up bigger than other first grade props. He almost certainly will, and when his body catches up, he may dominate the top grade like he did the juniors.
Matt Scott debuted at 18 and got injured in his debut match. He was always a talent but he didn't start utterly dominating until 2009, when he was 23\. Groat debuted at 18 and performed better than Scott did at that age. Groat has bigger wraps on him than Scott did at the same age. To write him off is premature to say the least.
It may not and most likely will not be 2013 that Groat becomes a real first grader, but check back with him when he is 23\. I'll make a bold prediction and say he'll be a Blue.
From the reports I have heard Groat is looking and behaving like a guy with a point to prove. He looks bigger and he is training well. He has put in some impressive performances in first grade, especially considering he was actually 18 at the time and there is a reason that he is one of the most decorated junior rep players in the current era. Comparing him to Woods is unfair. Woods is a different animal who not only handles it but often dominates in the top grade amongst men. I think it's because of his footwork and agility more than anything, which allows him to get between defenders and minimise the impact a defender can hit him with and also the leverage they can gain on him which allows him to get more balance in the impact and often roll forward further from the point of impact. Groat is a different prop, and is used to being stronger and bigger than the guys he runs at. More like a Matty Scott, whereas Woods is a Tamou. When he came up to grade, the style that he brought with him made it tough for him because he was running at the toughest blokes in the toughest comp in the world. That's not to suggest he won't end up bigger than other first grade props. He almost certainly will, and when his body catches up, he may dominate the top grade like he did the juniors.
Matt Scott debuted at 18 and got injured in his debut match. He was always a talent but he didn't start utterly dominating until 2009, when he was 23\. Groat debuted at 18 and performed better than Scott did at that age. Groat has bigger wraps on him than Scott did at the same age. To write him off is premature to say the least.
It may not and most likely will not be 2013 that Groat becomes a real first grader, but check back with him when he is 23\. I'll make a bold prediction and say he'll be a Blue.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@cusschops said:
Dunno Cusschops ,what would it hurt to give him another two seasons He won't be on much money and he has more going for him than not
Worth the risk in my opinion
@happy tiger said:
I just don't think he cuts it in the top grade. I don't know if he's in Potters plans for next year and only time will tell. The only way i think he might get a run will be through injury. If that's the case then I'd rather see some of the other youngsters given a go. Once again my opinion.
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happy_tiger
Well-known member
@cusschops said:
His biggest issues were lack of fitness and lateral movement Two things that should be pretty easy to fix for a young fella as long as they give him time He was put in a position in 2012 that he should of never been put in
The other issue is ( and I know I've brought it up before ) that we compare Groat to Woods
Woods first full season in grade was as good as Lazarus's first season in grade Thats how good Woods is
Groat isn't in Woods hemisphere , but there is no reason why Groat can't become a solid NRL player if he is prepared to work hard and develop his style and game
MacDougall
New member
Lol to even suggest he might just luckily become passable is also cutting him short. In fact rating him, not rating him or suggesting that you may one day rate him are all equally ridiculous. The fact is, the kid is highly touted by a boat load of people who know better than you or I. He played in every junior team possible. He dominated everybody and was the best Aussie junior of his age for years. He then came to NYC and actually DIDN'T dominate at all there but got the jump on Begovich on pedigree alone and played alright for a while, as a reserve prop who played about 17 minutes a game. Then he was forced to become a starting front rower at a club notorious for being piss weak in the pigs and got trampled. If the place wasn't run by somebody who so overtly played favourites Groat would still have not made a first grade debut imo, Begovich would have (and probably would be a regular first grader by now but I digress) and nobody would be saying he sucks and has no hope either.
Forget what you know about Matt Groat and judge him on what he presents to you next time or if he gets a shot in the top grade again. He may not even get another crack at first grade if he doesn't carve up the state cup, especially with a bunch of other very talented props all at the club now in Seumanufagai, Fotuaika, Buchanan, Sue, Passi, Gavet et al. Or he may put in tremendous off field work in the off season, make 200 metres and make 40 tackles in round 1 for state cup and get immediately called up and become Matt Scott overnight. He might get picked in first grade in round 1 even. Or he may toil for years and finally get another crack when he's 24 and become Matt Bell. I just cannot see the sense in passing judgement on him already.
Forget what you know about Matt Groat and judge him on what he presents to you next time or if he gets a shot in the top grade again. He may not even get another crack at first grade if he doesn't carve up the state cup, especially with a bunch of other very talented props all at the club now in Seumanufagai, Fotuaika, Buchanan, Sue, Passi, Gavet et al. Or he may put in tremendous off field work in the off season, make 200 metres and make 40 tackles in round 1 for state cup and get immediately called up and become Matt Scott overnight. He might get picked in first grade in round 1 even. Or he may toil for years and finally get another crack when he's 24 and become Matt Bell. I just cannot see the sense in passing judgement on him already.
innsaneink
Well-known member
What idiot first brought up the ''keyboard warrior'' term for someone having an opinion?
Bloody hell….grow up! Some precious souls here
Bloody hell….grow up! Some precious souls here
AmericanHistoryX
Well-known member
all i remember is my last memory of him - pumbled by the St. George pack. Vanished after that.
Groat however is not finished yet- under Potter there is a chance for redemption. Lord Tim saw him as the new Fifita. Didn't work.
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Groat however is not finished yet- under Potter there is a chance for redemption. Lord Tim saw him as the new Fifita. Didn't work.
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He is far to young to be written off i remember some people rubbishing gibbs at the same age.Give the man 3 years more and see how he develops.Dont forget that our previous coach expected far to much from him at an early age to cover the fact that he recruited very poorly
@jadtiger said:
And he (Sheens) stopped him from doing what comes natural to him. That is offloading of the ball. He was one of the best at it until Sheens ( I believe) put a stop to him playing that way and instead tried to make him a straight up the middle player.
He did the same to Galloway. When he played for Cronulla he was one of the best at the offload. Not much over the past few years. Again, I believe that this was the coaching of Sheens.
Give Groat a chance to play his natural game and you will see a different player.
He is also a nice young bloke. No "dickhead" about him.
andrew 474
New member
we should have a better idea at the end of this coming season , cant write him of yet , still can prove his worth
innsaneink
Well-known member
@magpiecol said:
Sheens isnt alone here in this regard, most coaches nowdays want their big boppas to just tuck it under and make 8,12-16m without dropping it - go forward, nothing more
Matt is a class act unlike some former players who have gone north of the border. We were down on forwards last year and the retirement of Payten was a big loss. The positive is that Payten has helped Matty a lot in the past year. His off season has been terrific and I predict big things from him coming off the bench along with yosefa, gavet, pettybourne and buchanan. I think we will go OK.
Tuiaki4life
New member
Hopefully yet to see the best of him, willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for '13\. Groat, the name suits the head! Good luck Matt
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