Moltzen and Groat

[dermo]

I think forumers should not come to expect big things early in the season, we are clearly a team who doesn't peak early and are more prone to peak later in the season. I'm still optimistic, we are premiership favourites for a reason.

As for you people who claim Moltzen isn't a halfback, you should take a good look at yourselves. Up until last week, we had never lost a game with Moltzen at halfback. No coincidence either, the guy has a good passing game, running game and has terrific vision and can defend (unlike Lui), important assets in being a quality half. The role he's playing at the moment does not come naturally to him and I can't understand why Sheen's has instructed him to play this role.

Are you crazy? Have you watched the games? He is the worst halfback in the NRL by a long way. In fact, he is in contention to be the worst player playing first grade.

Get rid of him. If Sheen's does not, then get rid of him as well.

We will never win a comp with Moltzen in the team. I have been saying since I forget when, that he will cost us big time. And boy, has he. Last year's semi against the Warriors and again last night. He was involved in three tries. All by St. George/Illawarra.

He is not alone however. Sheen's insists on playing out of form players, notably, Ayshford, Heinington and Farah.

God help us (and Sheen's) if Benji ever gets badly hurt.

Time for some youth and some speed.

One more thing. Am I mistake or did Sheen's only play three of the four reserves last night? Can't recall Meany getting a run. Good one Tim.

Even by the standards of this forum, that's as a ridiculous a rant as I've seen. You're indignation has nothing to do with fact, it's just another baseless emotional outburst. Forget the fact that halves rely on space and time, courtesy of a dominant pack and decent field position, just conclude that it must be all Moltzen's fault. Saints forwards were outstanding, Harry Potter wouldn't have shone in the 7 jumper against them. Moltzen, notwithstanding injuries, will stay at 7.

Finally someone talking some sense

 

[hybrid_tiger]

I think forumers should not come to expect big things early in the season, we are clearly a team who doesn't peak early and are more prone to peak later in the season. I'm still optimistic, we are premiership favourites for a reason.

As for you people who claim Moltzen isn't a halfback, you should take a good look at yourselves. Up until last week, we had never lost a game with Moltzen at halfback. No coincidence either, the guy has a good passing game, running game and has terrific vision and can defend (unlike Lui), important assets in being a quality half. The role he's playing at the moment does not come naturally to him and I can't understand why Sheen's has instructed him to play this role.

Are you crazy? Have you watched the games? He is the worst halfback in the NRL by a long way. In fact, he is in contention to be the worst player playing first grade.

Get rid of him. If Sheen's does not, then get rid of him as well.

We will never win a comp with Moltzen in the team. I have been saying since I forget when, that he will cost us big time. And boy, has he. Last year's semi against the Warriors and again last night. He was involved in three tries. All by St. George/Illawarra.

He is not alone however. Sheen's insists on playing out of form players, notably, Ayshford, Heinington and Farah.

God help us (and Sheen's) if Benji ever gets badly hurt.

Time for some youth and some speed.

One more thing. Am I mistake or did Sheen's only play three of the four reserves last night? Can't recall Meany getting a run. Good one Tim.

Even by the standards of this forum, that's as a ridiculous a rant as I've seen. You're indignation has nothing to do with fact, it's just another baseless emotional outburst. Forget the fact that halves rely on space and time, courtesy of a dominant pack and decent field position, just conclude that it must be all Moltzen's fault. Saints forwards were outstanding, Harry Potter wouldn't have shone in the 7 jumper against them. Moltzen, notwithstanding injuries, will stay at 7.

You are correct in saying that no halfback could really shine behind a well beaten pack, which we were on Friday.

The issue with Moltzen is not his performance, it is his involvement.

Five runs and one kick in 80 minutes is not good enough from a halfback, playing behind a beaten pack or not.

Farah tried his guts out but did not play overly well and Benji did the same but was concussed and made some errors. The difference is that both Robbie and Benji died trying whereas Moltzen simply disappeared and watched from the background. That is the issue.

 

[russelldp]

I agree with the remarks about Moltzen's involvement being an issue.

A half back must be proactive and make it happen using the skills they have- some can control a game (Thurston, Cronk), others provide a good link (Josh Mccrone), whilst some inspire their team mates with bursts of brilliance (Sandow).

Unfortunately, Moltzen's game at number 7 is serving no purpose except filling the jumper. Add to this a damaging error rate, including a knock on at the scrum base and another at dummy half and you have a serious issue.

I defended him last year as he was returning from injury, but there are no excuses now.

Groat is a different story- he is trying his best, but his leg speed and stamina are issues he needs to overcome before he is a regular first grader.
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[innsaneink]

Groat finds himself in this position, ahead of his development and capabilities due to injuries to others and our poor recruitment

Moltzen, I cannot believe he is not under instructions to take a back seat to Benji & Farah, if he isnt then he needs a boot of Patty Richards proportions up the backside, quicksmart!

 

[Goose]

Get Daly CherryEvans at halfback, Moltz to fullback, and sack Tom Humble coz he's s*** compared to moltz at fullback in the 2nd Half of last season..and with Ellis leaving at the end of this year I think we can definitly make a legitimate offer to DCE..
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That is EXTREMELY debatable

please explain..
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To say that anyone is s*** compared to Moltzen is like i said, EXTREMELY debatable. And the fact your only basing that off seeing Humble play 2 or 3 times, it doesn't say a lot

your anti molzen bias is ridiculous.

If you think it was his fault we lost last night you are simply delusional.

Our forwards got pumped, that is why we lost.

If Lui had played exactly the same game moltz played, quiet, without doing much, you'd be claiming he was solid behind a beaten pack.

 

[Citizen_Tiger]

I think forumers should not come to expect big things early in the season, we are clearly a team who doesn't peak early and are more prone to peak later in the season. I'm still optimistic, we are premiership favourites for a reason.

As for you people who claim Moltzen isn't a halfback, you should take a good look at yourselves. Up until last week, we had never lost a game with Moltzen at halfback. No coincidence either, the guy has a good passing game, running game and has terrific vision and can defend (unlike Lui), important assets in being a quality half. The role he's playing at the moment does not come naturally to him and I can't understand why Sheen's has instructed him to play this role.

Are you crazy? Have you watched the games? He is the worst halfback in the NRL by a long way. In fact, he is in contention to be the worst player playing first grade.

Get rid of him. If Sheen's does not, then get rid of him as well.

We will never win a comp with Moltzen in the team. I have been saying since I forget when, that he will cost us big time. And boy, has he. Last year's semi against the Warriors and again last night. He was involved in three tries. All by St. George/Illawarra.

He is not alone however. Sheen's insists on playing out of form players, notably, Ayshford, Heinington and Farah.

God help us (and Sheen's) if Benji ever gets badly hurt.

Time for some youth and some speed.

One more thing. Am I mistake or did Sheen's only play three of the four reserves last night? Can't recall Meany getting a run. Good one Tim.

Even by the standards of this forum, that's as a ridiculous a rant as I've seen. You're indignation has nothing to do with fact, it's just another baseless emotional outburst. Forget the fact that halves rely on space and time, courtesy of a dominant pack and decent field position, just conclude that it must be all Moltzen's fault. Saints forwards were outstanding, Harry Potter wouldn't have shone in the 7 jumper against them. Moltzen, notwithstanding injuries, will stay at 7.

You are correct in saying that no halfback could really shine behind a well beaten pack, which we were on Friday.

The issue with Moltzen is not his performance, it is his involvement.

Five runs and one kick in 80 minutes is not good enough from a halfback, playing behind a beaten pack or not.

Farah tried his guts out but did not play overly well and Benji did the same but was concussed and made some errors. The difference is that both Robbie and Benji died trying whereas Moltzen simply disappeared and watched from the background. That is the issue.

I'll accept that, but the likliehood is, as mentioned in this thread, he's probs playing under instructions. The stats don't look good, but I think we know he's a very talented player and capable of much better. I think the kid deserves support, he's had to tolerate a relentless campaign by the Murdoch Press fo months, culminating in their disgusting editorials prior to this weeks match. Even the BSB beat it up during the week and TK took time to repeat his criticism of Moltzen's contract negotiations, over and over and over. Moltzen is a kid, to believe that bulls… didn't get to him is naive. Know anyone that's come back from a full knee reco? Takes a lot longer than one season I can tell you.People in here set the bar at an absurd height, much higher than they'd demand of themselves in their own endeavours.

Thanks for responding with something credible, it's a rarity in this thread

 

[happy_tiger]

So we have to wait 3/4 of a season for our halfback to click?

Oh goodie

No different from last season with our fullback All good things come to those who wait Smeg :unamused:

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Goose, I can gaurentee Lui would have been more involved. I haven't said anywhere that i thought the loss was Moltzen's fault. Our forwards were pumped, but even that shouldn't affect Moltzen at least getting his hands on the ball.

 

[system]

Farah and Marshall busted and concussed respectively and still nowhere to be seen.

Speaks volumes.

I genuinely hope he plays a blinder when and where next selected

 

[cusschops]

Remember when Beau wasn't playing well? Now he is and your all praising him.
I hope all you Moltzen knockers eat your words when he gains some confidence, cause thats all it is. We have all seen what he can do. He will come good. Believe and stop knocking him.
Pick on Groat or someone else for once.
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[tomcat]

Thats cause Beau pulled his finger out and decided to have a go !!!!!

 

[wests4ever]

i CAN'T BELIEVE ALL THESE "MARY MAGDALINES" on here making pathetic excuses for Moltzen's lame performances.
Get real or get ….!!!!!!!!!!!!'This is the reason we have only won 1 Premiership since Shines became coach because of all the wimps including the Board of Weststigers & some supporters who "accept" 2nd best all the time!!!!
Wake up to urselves!!! Melbourne can do it Year in Year out why can't the Tigers???????

 

[Goose]

i CAN'T BELIEVE ALL THESE "MARY MAGDALINES" on here making pathetic excuses for Moltzen's lame performances.
Get real or get ….!!!!!!!!!!!!'This is the reason we have only won 1 Premiership since Shines became coach because of all the wimps including the Board of Weststigers & some supporters who "accept" 2nd best all the time!!!!
Wake up to urselves!!! Melbourne can do it Year in Year out why can't the Tigers???????

There is 16 teams in the comp, premierships are hard to win, alot of things have to go your way to win.

Melbourne won 2 comps and were up there year in year out cause they have had a side $1 mil bucks over the cap.
Their cheque book recruitment extended to their juniors as well, which they are still benefitting a little bit from, moving forward they will be in the grinder with the rest of the clubs.

We have run top 4 in consecutive years and we lose a couple games early and you want to sack the coach and the half back.

 

[tigersrule4life]

True its round 3 we wont lose now and we will show up and show them who we are.

 

[cktiger]

I suppose we should have paid the $550k to get Sandow - oh wait a minute , he doesn't seem to be going that good behind a beaten pack either.
Moltzen isn't the reason we lost the last two games.
Our forwards are lacking - only Farah and Blair showed anything resembling first grade standard.
The young props are struggling having to start together and God only knows what has happened to Fulton and Heighington.
If Moltzen doesn't pass the ball to our flashy backline (none too flashy at the moment) then he's called a hog.
If he does pass it then he's not having a go.
How many halfbacks get praised when their team gets beat by more than 20?

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Again you completely miss the point. Nobody is expecting any halfback to shine behind a soft and beaten forward pack, Moltzen or otherwise.

The issue here is Moltzen's level of involvement, not his performance. Regardless of whether he is playing behind a beaten pack, standing in the background and watching is not good enough. 5 runs and one kick in 80 minutes is pathetic, beaten pack or not.

No other halfback in the NRL goes five or six sets in a row without getting his hands on the ball.

 

[cktiger]

I seriously doubt he went five or six sets in a row without touching the ball Hybrid.
I will agree he should get more involved in attack (his defence is great for a halfback) but I can't help feeling he's playing the way Sheens wants him to.
He played half through his juniors and for Australia in the Junior Kangaroos - he knows what to do if allowed to do it.

 

[barra]

They are touches, not runs. He barely took the line on and kicked once, which for a current NRL halfback is well below standard.

Certainly Moltzen is still feeling his way. I'm a Miller fan but I understand it's going to take a while for Tim to get into the groove, but it is very hard to not get impatient with him when he turns in yet another below par performance at this level.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

I seriously doubt he went five or six sets in a row without touching the ball Hybrid.

Watch the game again mate. His lack of involvement astounds me. If this is a coaching directive Sheens has lost his marbles. (though that would really not surprise me either).

He was even moved to fullback late in the game, make of that what you will.

I will admit his defense has been good this season, but halfbacks aren't in the team to defend. We won a comp with two halves who couldn't defend if their lives depended on it.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Remember when Beau wasn't playing well? Now he is and your all praising him.
I hope all you Moltzen knockers eat your words when he gains some confidence, cause thats all it is. We have all seen what he can do. He will come good. Believe and stop knocking him.
Pick on Groat or someone else for once.
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Read the title mate. Groat hasn't escaped criticism either. Like HT said, no one is expecting him to be a star, we just want him to get his bloody hands on the ball, surely thats not expecting too much from your halfback. And as Smeg said, he had the perfect chance to stand up and try and control things when Marshall and Farah were busted but he was still in hiding. Its funny that the people defending him to the hilt are the same ones who bashed Lui at every oppurtunity last year