Nathan Brown injury

I wouldn't classify Wests Tigers as having elite-level training and physical preparation regimes if they did we wouldn't have the high injury toll we have year after year.

I don't think you can simple put it down to a freak run of incidents all these terrible injuries to our young players it has to have something to do with the way they train.
 
When the CEO says we have the worst training facilities in the NRL, replaces the Rehab Manager Andrew Leeds and demotes the Club Doctor to NSW Cup you know it might be slightly more than 'a freak run of injuries.'
 
@Knuckles said:
Has our trusty CEO been around to all clubs facilities and made an inspection has he ?
I suspect not.

You gotta be kidding right?
He used to work at Manly, Belmore is common knowledge, The Sharks you can see into from the bloody street…
Have you actually seen the WT's training HQ?
It's in a dingy basement with no windows and looks 100 yrs old. I've seen Belmore and Cronulla... It's actually embarrassing
to even consider us in the same league.
It's not hard to see why we can't attract big name players... Our set up is from the 70's!!
What professional sportsman in his right mind would swap a Ferrari for a billy cart? That's how vast the comparison is!!
AND... We have 2 change rooms at Concord!! One for the "Senior" Players and one for the "Other" Guys....
What kind of "Team" Does that???
 
@Knuckles said:
Has our trusty CEO been around to all clubs facilities and made an inspection has he ?
I suspect not.

He worked at Manly and Bulldogs and I'm sure he's seen more in his time.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_
 
To reply to both Fumbles and pHyR3, being down the bottom of the NRL is still being within the most elite rugby league competition in the world. Similarly, our team might be the second worst in the NRL 2013, but that's still 15th best in the world's premier RL competition.

Sure nobody in the NRL can rival what Man U or the NFL clubs have going around, but all NRL clubs are elite-level for our sport.

To think that changing the rehab guy or doctor is gonna stop the injuries, is just so naive. Remember these are the same chaps who were also responsible for the years we didn't have such bad injury tolls, like 2005 and 2011.

Look, for example, at the Broncos who make more profit and spend more on football operations than any other club - they ended season 2013 with 5 season-ending first grade injuries. Raiders had 10, Titans had 7, Warriors had 7, Dragons had 8\. Tigers had… 7 (not including Mosese), about par with other clubs.

No, injuries are going to happen and you are going to get periodic runs of them. Even recurrences of injury aren't necessarily the fault of the club doctor. Sometimes you just have to accept that Hodges and Lawrence have dodgy hammies, Moltzen is prone to ACLs, Benny Barba has a shifty ankle, Benji had bung shoulders etc.

Staff changes 2013 are just part of the general club overhaul, of letting Potter make appointments that he works best with and to shake things up, bring in new ideas and new energy. It’s not as if Kuah and Leeds were the only folks moved on this year. It’s also not as if Kuah and Lees weren’t appropriately qualified.

The reason I get so annoyed by the type of comments seen in this thread, is that people seem to honestly believe that a bad injury toll is someone’s fault. They seem to think that NRL clubs employ amateurs who have no idea how to prevent and treat injuries. By corollary, there also appears the suggestion that injuries can be negated with just the right preparation and training and facilities.

No friends, this is a contact sport. The only way to stop players getting hurt is to stop sending them out onto the field. In some ways it is like war – if you commit to a battle, some soldiers are going to get hurt, regardless of their tech or training.

I mean, you do understand don’t you? The opposition are going out there to intentionally hurt our players. How many times can you withstand an opponent’s strike before you are damaged?

The last thing I wanted to note is that when it comes to player welfare and performance, the core ideas are still very basic, very fundamental components. When you get injured, you apply ice and elevate. When you get a cut, you sew it shut. When you suffer a break, you set it and wait. When you want someone to be good at running long distances, you make them practice long distances. When you want someone to be strong, you make them lift heavy things. Sure, a few bits of tech here and there can gain that extra few percent, but that isn’t going to stop the injuries.

Rant over.
 
@Knuckles said:
Has our trusty CEO been around to all clubs facilities and made an inspection has he ?
I suspect not.

He'd have a fair idea, I'd question his ability to lead an NRL club if he didn't know the capabilities and basic info about the 15 other NRL clubs he was up against.

Its not exactly top secret info.
 
@pHyR3 said:
When the CEO says we have the worst training facilities in the NRL, replaces the Rehab Manager Andrew Leeds and **demotes the Club Doctor to NSW Cup** you know it might be slightly more than 'a freak run of injuries.'

actually this is so far from being accurate, its not funny

the Doc is he one who decided to step away from the 1st grade. The Tigers wanted him to stay on and continue the job but it required more time at the club. He is also heavily involved with the Olympic Team and Commonwealth Games teams plus has his own practice. along with having a family and 2 kids, he has been at the club since 2003…... He wanted to still be part of the club and he also helped the Tigers get the new Doctor that they have appointed who is meant to be bloody good..
 
Or that when a person has nerve damage in their body they shouldn't be told to walk off the field cause it's just a shoulder injury?
 
@fergiefurr said:
Or that when a person has nerve damage in their body they shouldn't be told to walk off the field cause it's just a shoulder injury?

Lol. Shows u have zero idea

Nerve damage was impossible to know at the time. But of course it a doctor and know everything.

Once again u have no idea of the facts.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_
 
We use the same facilities as a chute shield rugby club. We're a professional football club and we need a professional training facility. I have full faith in Grant Being able to find us something better than Concord, given he took Manly to the NSW institute of sport.
 
@T-REXX said:
@pHyR3 said:
When the CEO says we have the worst training facilities in the NRL, replaces the Rehab Manager Andrew Leeds and **demotes the Club Doctor to NSW Cup** you know it might be slightly more than 'a freak run of injuries.'

actually this is so far from being accurate, its not funny

the Doc is he one who decided to step away from the 1st grade. The Tigers wanted him to stay on and continue the job but it required more time at the club. He is also heavily involved with the Olympic Team and Commonwealth Games teams plus has his own practice. along with having a family and 2 kids, he has been at the club since 2003…... He wanted to still be part of the club and he also helped the Tigers get the new Doctor that they have appointed who is meant to be bloody good..

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_
 
@T-REXX said:
@pHyR3 said:
When the CEO says we have the worst training facilities in the NRL, replaces the Rehab Manager Andrew Leeds and **demotes the Club Doctor to NSW Cup** you know it might be slightly more than 'a freak run of injuries.'

actually this is so far from being accurate, its not funny

the Doc is he one who decided to step away from the 1st grade. The Tigers wanted him to stay on and continue the job but it required more time at the club. He is also heavily involved with the Olympic Team and Commonwealth Games teams plus has his own practice. along with having a family and 2 kids, he has been at the club since 2003…... He wanted to still be part of the club and he also helped the Tigers get the new Doctor that they have appointed who is meant to be bloody good..

Okay, i just chucked in the doc for some emphasis. Training and facilities are what i think are letting us down.

The worst thing about 2013 injuries is that they were NOT even close to being isolated within the NRL team. The NYC/NSW Cup teams were just as badly affected. Seems to suggest either our training or facilities or both are poor compared to other clubs. And mayer has confirmed one of them to be well below par.

If you train badly and ineffectively you're more likely to tear ligaments and muscles. Broken bones I can understand, a moderate amount of injuries in all grade i can understand. But this level of injuries across THREE GRADES suggests to me there's a deeper issue than, 'oh we're unlucky.' Some clubs seem to never be unlucky, and they also seem to have far more professional facilities and probably programmes.
 
@fergiefurr said:
During his time with the Olympic team, has he learned how to inject pain killers without making the patient lame?

These sort of injections aren't like putting an anti-inflammatory into the joint like for arthritis. With pain injections you need to getthe sensory nerve only, whilst avoiding the motor nerve. The problem is that there is a huge variation in anatomy between each person so it is mainly a blind prediction at what should be within the area. Short of taking the player into a CT scan each time, which is a ridiculous amount of radiation for someone week after week, you can't ensure you will get 100% accuracy and not anaethetise the motor nerve at the same time. Happens fairly regularly & isn't a sign of poor ability.
 
@Illek said:
@fergiefurr said:
During his time with the Olympic team, has he learned how to inject pain killers without making the patient lame?

These sort of injections aren't like putting an anti-inflammatory into the joint like for arthritis. With pain injections you need to getthe sensory nerve only, whilst avoiding the motor nerve. The problem is that there is a huge variation in anatomy between each person so it is mainly a blind prediction at what should be within the area. Short of taking the player into a CT scan each time, which is a ridiculous amount of radiation for someone week after week, you can't ensure you will get 100% accuracy and not anaethetise the motor nerve at the same time. Happens fairly regularly & isn't a sign of poor ability.

I wouldnt bother mate. Fergie has been ranting about and slandering Kuah for years. He hasnt let facts get in way of his rants in the past.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_
 
@T-REXX said:
@fergiefurr said:
Or that when a person has nerve damage in their body they shouldn't be told to walk off the field cause it's just a shoulder injury?

Lol. Shows u have zero idea

Nerve damage was impossible to know at the time. But of course it a doctor and know everything.

Once again u have no idea of the facts.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

x2 T-REXX.

And regarding the needling comment; I reckon fergifurr would be surprised just how many pain killing injections are given in the NRL each year and how few of them have a negative outcome. Every time you give a needle there is a significant risk of undesired effects; this is actually true of every single drug in the world.
 
@pHyR3 said:
Okay, i just chucked in the doc for some emphasis. Training and facilities are what i think are letting us down.

The worst thing about 2013 injuries is that they were NOT even close to being isolated within the NRL team. The NYC/NSW Cup teams were just as badly affected. Seems to suggest either our training or facilities or both are poor compared to other clubs. And mayer has confirmed one of them to be well below par.

If you train badly and ineffectively you're more likely to tear ligaments and muscles. Broken bones I can understand, a moderate amount of injuries in all grade i can understand. But this level of injuries across THREE GRADES suggests to me there's a deeper issue than, 'oh we're unlucky.' Some clubs seem to never be unlucky, and they also seem to have far more professional facilities and probably programmes.

Firstly, I think you should actually research figures of the numbers of injuries at different clubs across the different grades. Do you know for certain that Tigers have a worse injury toll than other clubs? In my post above I already note that we were about par for the number of season-ending injuries in the NRL.

I otherwise think you are still missing the point. What makes you think that we are training badly and ineffectively? What evidence of this do you have? Sure Mayer said we don't have the best facilities in the league, but you don't need a million dollar machine and a shiny new room to get yourself into good shape. Have a look at suburban boxing halls and what people make do with.

As I said before, physical conditioning is 90% basics - aerobic exercise, endurance, cross-training, stretching and mobility, core strength, lifting heavy things. These are not expensive endeavours for a NRL club. Do personal trainers out in the park get people fit with expensive magic gadgets? No, they make 'em run, do situps, punch gloves.

The difference between the richer and poorer clubs is getting that extra few percent out of the players, because at such an elite level those small differences matter. That may be why our on-field performances are worse, because we are unable to get our players quite to the physical and mental peak of other clubs. That being said, we managed to win a comp and get pretty close two other times, during which I am sure our facilities didn't magically improve.

One of the comments earlier about us having Shute Shield facilities - maybe we do, I've never audited Tigers. But do Shute Shield rugby clubs therefore suffer horrendous injury tolls, because their facilities aren't so good? In fact does every sports club without the money of the Broncos or Essendon suffer terrible on-field injuries, coz they can't afford a GPS or a hyperbaric chamber?
 
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