Rock Hopper Steve
Well-known member
They have to blame someone through frustration Tuck, had nothing to do with the missed tackles that lead to tries lol.
NRL Refs
- Thread starter user118245
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Criticism of the refs is fair as a talking point. I also criticised some of the refs calls. I said in one of my first posts on this that I wouldn't have penalized Fainu, even though I can understand how the ref got to that decision.
The problem is two fold however.
Firstly many people have criticised the ref as the primary reason we lost. You only need to read back through the comments to see this. We didn't start that line of thinking
Secondly the criticism of the ref on here isnt reasoned. Where is the criticism for the wrong calls that went against the warriors, because I think there were a few obvious ones that went against them plus a few probably correct but questionable ones. If no-one is pointing out the second than the logical conclusion is they are arguing in favour of the first.
We definitely didn’t lose because of the ref ! I think anyone who said that is just being emotional at the time .
In saying that though , if there isn’t an uplift and scrutiny put back o to the refs to lift their performance , there may be a game where we do lose 💯 because of the ref.
The cowboys loss a few years ago is the most egregious example of this.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again , the ref is out there to ensure the match is played under fair conditions . IMO they should be seen not heard as much as possible .
I feel like ever since they went fully professional 10-15 years ago , there has been a huge shift to the mentality of the refs , which to Be honest is only natural when your livelihood is at stake. But the problem with that is , it undermines the integrity of matches , where the official in charges primary concern is maintaining their income moving forward rather providing the most fair conditions. Things like penalty KPIs , missed penalties , 6 again calls and not calls , whatever KPIs are put in place .
I don’t think there’s some conspiracy around the tigers . But I do think these guys are sat down every week , and the games are ranked from 1-8 on most - least high profile . And as such the lower profile games are easy cannon fodder .
It’s easy to say “ become a better team and you’ll get more of the rub” because it’s obviously true , but if you’re in tight games where egregious calls can influence outcomes , as much as bad performance , well now it’s like a never ending loop of “gotta get better to get better calls” to “won’t get calls because not a top team” .
I mean it happens in most sports . Man city used to [This word has been automatically removed] when they were on the come up about not getting calls , now Harland is touched goes down instant penalty .
The refs in NBA have been favouring LeBron for a long time , and when james harden used to be the best player or one of , the running joke was he would just run into players and get a foul . So it’s not unique to NRL.
Like I said the moment a guys livelihood became a variable , there’s no way that guy is going to risk anything against a high profile player or team , that’s even remotely 50/50. Because the blow torch will 💯 be applied to them .
But It is already on the refs to lift their performance. To think there is no scrutiny on the refs or that they are not held accountable is just plain incorrect. People (emotional or otherwise) however are arguing this is the case. I already explained that they do internal reviews. If the refs aren't getting enough decisions correct there is someone to take their place. Unfortunately the nature of the game means that there will always be incorrect calls through human error or obstructed views as well as two people can see the same play and have differing opinions on how it should be adjudicated.
There are no KPIs in place around penalties or 6 agains, either giving them or not giving them. If neither team breached the rules the ref would not be reprimanded for not blowing his whistle. Similarly if every time he does it is justified he will not be reprimanded regardless of how many times he does.
You are absolutely correct in the ranking of games in profile and the ranking of referees appointed to the game. So theoretically the worse the 2 teams playing the worse the referees performance will be. However this should be an incompetent (for lack of a better word) ref rather than a bias ref. Does this affect outcomes arguably so at a game level, less so at a season level.
The lower ranked teams should theoretically be getting more bad calls than the higher ranked teams but the reverse is also true in that the opposition of lower ranked teams should be getting more bad calls than the opposition of higher ranked teams. Over the course of a game or even a season you should be capitalising on as many bad calls as you are being crucified by them.
Back to the warriors game. Yes there were decisions that absolutely went against us. Some in my opinion were simply incorrect calls or incorrect lack of a call in some cases. Some were debatable either way. And some were the right call even if it is a ruling that fans of the game don't like. But exactly the same can be said from the warriors perspective.
PS. I looked up the 6 again count since we were apparently hammered by them according to the forum. We received 1 more 6 again than the warriors did.
Tucker
Well-known member
After seeing the absolute shit our teams have dished up over the past few years youd think the concensus would be excited regarding the fact that we are stopping a lot of tries and are scoring quite a few. We are creating lots of chances despite the fact that our spine has not settled in yet nor clicked into a consistently dependable grind.
Nah...the refs are picking on us LMFAO.
Rock Hopper Steve
Well-known member
The 2pt losses really hurt and can create negativity which can blind how well they are actually going there is definite improvement.
Worried about the young halves playing together this game, hope they gel better than in the trial.
BAGNF05
Well-known member
At the game it was disappointing that the ref/bunker made Turuva get up and play the ball, yet they then changed interpretation to decide the game on the Seyfarth one. Both were pretty innocuous so 100% can understand fans frustration with that.
Mostly though, we need to start winning the collision or we’re going to be on the wrong side of calls.
Mostly though, we need to start winning the collision or we’re going to be on the wrong side of calls.
Man this is where I get the shits with people who quote never ending stats to form an opinion .
The 6 against we received were usually mid field and early in the count , so the benefit is minimal if at all .
And the fact that the counts were similar is my whole point . They level stats out at the end of the game .
To say there’s no KPIs around penalties is just not true . Gus Gould himself has come out multiple times and said as such , and so have many other people within the confinds of the nrl in Crowd .
It’s just not elaborated on . At the very least it was metrics in the past that has shifted , and they’re no longer evaluated on them .
But I can attest at my work certain KPIs changed the way people worked even though they’re not in place anymore . So the damage has been done , especially to a certain generation of referee .
I said earlier in the week I actually think this guy has the right idea about how he wants to ref . I honestly think a lot of the issues were bunker over calls . And I’ve said that multiple times . There’s just too much noise in their ears .
Anyways , the team has been announced . Hopefully Richo has voiced the club’s displeasure with the last game . And we can get a game that has IMO at least better clarity on decisions that are made , even if I don’t agree.
I think that’s the biggest issue , it’s not the decisions that you do or don’t agree with . It’s the fact you don’t even know what it was for in the first place .
Many of us have played this game all our lives , have coached it , at various different levels , and when even when annelsley gives his explanation it makes even less sense , there’s something wrong with that.
Union is unwatchable because of this more than anything . Especially as the northern hemisphere gained control of the game . I’m not going to go into hyperbole about how the games becoming union , because that’s ridiculous, just more pointing out what the worse case scenario is when the game loses sight on what’s important .
You want a punter who’s watching with his Aussie mate in a pub in Chicago to pick it up fairly quickly , not need a doctorate in law and philosophy to understand what’s going on .
Which when you listen to Graeme on a Monday that’s exactly the stuff he rambles on about .
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, to much to respond to every point but I will pick a few worth commenting on.
The 6 agains we received were often early in the count because Warriors, like many teams, give them away tactically (cynically) early in the count to allow them to control the rest of the set. Slow down the first couple tackles, set your defensive line and it makes extremely difficult for the opposition to break your line.
We typically gave them away because we got beaten physically and needed to recover our line.
The timing of them isn't on the referee it is a result of the match play.
It was predicted by many people around the game (outside the mainstream media) that such cynical tactics would be a part of the game under such rules.
Clarity around the decisions are readily available for anyone that wants to go looking for them (for the most part). But you are right that 6 agains aren't clear or explained to the average punter. However I don't see how this is a referee issue or how it was a problem specifically in the game on the weekend or penalised us more. This again is an issue of the rules (and coverage) of the game.
I wouldn't say the game is becoming complicated but it is forever increasing/updating rules and interpretations around the ruck and play the ball. The problem is this is done in response to new delaying tactics being brought into the game. You either introduce more rules or you allow the delaying tactics to continue.
That’s your confirmation bias’ about the obvious . When e were attacking their line we couldn’t buy a 6 again . And to be honest , our tactics were pretty much the roosters playbook of do whatever you have to to stop a try . We will just tackle until we get the ball back .
Which is my whole point in a nutshell …. Both teams are doing the same thing so the same interpretation should apply . But they don’t . Which is my point ! You’re stating the obvious about tactics .
Just to prove my point .
The refs got a memo from rival clubs that the raiders were employing particular tactics after the first 2 rounds . Since then the refs have gone bananas on them to the point Ricky has gone full Ricky .
If ever there was proof refs are entering contests with preconceived ideas about what they are going to focus on , on individual teams it’s what’s happened to the raiders . And that’s just crap . And it shouldn’t happen . You can be a bill harrigan type who has a style and that’s how he refs games . Which means the players need to adjust to the ref.
But doing homework on particular club tendencies is nonsense and only leads to bias . And they do do homework prior to games on the teams they’re in charge of . It should just be league wide tendencies. But it’s not . I don’t agree with you mate . And I never will . Until the game accepts that the way the referees are instructed to ref games is weaklening the product , we as fans will suffer from this . And it’s a choice . I think it comes down to the fact many of the top refs never actually played the game . They came from touch or Oztag and came across . So they have very little feel for the game . Anyways I don’t want to talk about this anymore . Bring on the broncos .
