On-Line Trolls - New Law..

[happy_tiger]

'The time for change is now': Australia's new online trolling laws will save lives

By Erin Molan • Sports Presenter
3:29pm Dec 23, 2020

OPINION: Today's news that the Federal Government will introduce the toughest laws in the world when it comes to online trolling will save precious Australian lives.
This historical, legislative and social milestone is setting a standard that the rest of the world should – and I think will – follow.

**Fines of up to $111,000 for individuals who abuse, threaten, intimidate, post revenge porn, bully children and over half a million dollars for corporations like Facebook and Twitter, who refuse to take down offensive material or reveal the identities of perpetrators.**

A lack of legislation in the online space affects us all – even if you are not online.
The old attitude of "just get off social media" doesn't cut it anymore.
Get the perpetrators off social media.
Social media is how millions of Australians stay in touch with loved ones, run businesses, do their jobs, stay connected during pandemics and even if it's not your cup of tea – you are still vulnerable to attacks.
Former Broncos coach Anthony Siebold isn't on social media, yet his life – and that of his family – was almost ruined by things written online.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
There is no downside to stopping the horrific abuse that occurs online.
This is not an infringement on free speech.
This doesn't stop anyone from disagreeing, expressing opinions, being highly critical of others or just being mean – this is about punishing behaviours that cross a line.
What we deem acceptable behaviour in the real world needs to be reflected in the online space.
There is no longer any difference; we move seamlessly between both worlds now.
If abuse occurs in a real-world setting - be it domestic, public, in the workplace or otherwise - there are consequences, often criminal.
Legislation is clear about the illegality of behaviour such as verbal abuse, swearing and continual humiliation, name-calling, put-downs, psychological abuse, making threats, creating fear, harassment, stalking, and intimidation.
When these incidents happen in our society, our common understanding that they are criminal drives the public discourse and response.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
We would never tell a victim of domestic violence to just "ignore it", to "stop reading abusive emails or letters" or to become more resilient.
Yet, we tell this to victims of online abuse.
You put one person who commits an offence under this new legislation on the front page of the paper – with their fine in big, bold letters – and 90 per cent of this behaviour will stop.

Once people know there are real consequences and they aren't anonymous, the majority of it will stop.
This fight was never about me.
I have been exposed to some of the vilest abuse imaginable now for over a decade – I see the perpetrators for who they are.
This wasn't always the case.
The hordes of death threats, threats of physical violence, threats to rape my daughter that have been sent to me and written about me have taken me to some incredibly dark and scary places in the past - and I am strong and I am resilient.
I have always continued to do my job and front up – I have never let them win – but there is no shame in being affected by this kind of abuse or showing emotion.
It does take a toll.
It does not mean I am weak or vulnerable.
I am also not a snowflake.
I am in the public eye and there will always be people who will dislike me and disagree with me and that is part and parcel of my job – this is about when a line is crossed.
I fought and lobbied for tougher legislation on behalf of my daughter, on behalf of your children, and on behalf of every single Australian.
I know that many families who have lost loved ones to online abuse have fought a similar battle and deserve to feel immensely proud today.
This isn't the entire answer but it's a brilliant start.
The focus has needed to shift from coping mechanisms for victims to punishments for perpetrators for years - and this legislation begins to do that.

The below correspondence I received recently from a teacher paints this picture in heartbreaking detail:
"So, so often, kids are in tears at school.
"So, so often, kids are highly anxious and don't want to come to school. The reason?
"Social media and bullying/trolling on social media.
"I would say that close to 80 per cent of my student welfare time is spent on talking to students about issues that have happened online the night before or over the weekend.
"It is rife and it is relentless.
"The amount of bullying, trolling, abuse, intimidation and genuine mean behaviour that happens on social media and over online gaming is astronomical.
"We have tried everything from external professional programs, chaplaincy, counselling and nothing seems to get through.
"I just want to let you know Erin that I played your editorial to my class during the week. It was phenomenal!
"You could hear a pin drop in the room.
I have personally changed my conversations with kids about getting offline and just ignoring it.
"Now, I am going hard on the bullies and the cowards who are doing the bullying!
"They will be held accountable! My students have been referring to it all week and I have sent the link for the parents to listen to it as well..."

Another one of the thousands of pieces of correspondence I have received since taking up this fight:
"I hope and pray as an adult and a role model in media you can be a voice for the young who are bullied and traumatised through social media.

"As a mum to a traumatised adolescent… be brave… don't just be lip service… we need change… big responsibility… I know."
I took that message very seriously – I promised her I wouldn't just be lip service.

I want to thank the government.
I have met with Federal Communications Minister Paul Fletcher on multiple occasions – he and his team have been phenomenal.
They have all worked long and hard on this.
I met with the Prime Minister – he looked me in the eye and promised me they would do something – and he delivered. Thank you sir.
To Judge Paul Conlon, who was with me from the start of this fight; Warren Mundine as well; Peta Credlin – thank you for your insight and knowledge in how to get things done in the often slow world of legislation. Your public and private efforts were incredible.
My sister Felicity – an incredible lawyer – thank you for all of your advice and support.
To Anthony Siebold – your bravery in speaking out was the real catalyst for change. You should be immensely proud.
No one should ever have to endure what you and your family did.
To 60 Minutes, Maddi and Tom, for giving us a major platform – thank you.
To all the thousands of people who reached out and offered support and encouragement - thank you!
To victims and families who have lost loved ones to online abuse – thank you for fighting as well, many of you much harder and for much longer than I have.
This will be a long journey but it's started – and I couldn't be anymore grateful.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/erin-molan-australian-trolling-laws-will-save-lives/c769baef-d26a-434a-a6b1-880b5f507a47

There goes majority of the FORUM ????

@happy_tiger just started a go-fund-me page ..
Target $111,000 ?

Nothing to do with the On Line Trolls .....raising the money to shave all rangas

?


A hobbo doppelgänger ???

Before he ate someone that size .....not that I can talk either lol

 

[happy_tiger]

Yeah! sure is a funny subject.

Are you people for real or just never experienced it.

I am always suspect about laws being instituted for Internet activity. Starts off with people issuing death threats etc online (which I am pretty sure there is legislation for already, @willow does/used to work in cybercrime, maybe he knows?) and then it slowly becomes silencing and fining people for political discourse and discussion.

After the way that the NSW Deputy Premier has carried on of late I am extremely sceptical of trusting the government to enact any legislation in regard to what is said online.

And no, I do not hold this position because I am an online troll, as you can see here we try to keep things as clean as possible and harassment free.

Too easy to blame someone else mate .....will never work

 

[twentyforty]

'The time for change is now': Australia's new online trolling laws will save lives

By Erin Molan • Sports Presenter
3:29pm Dec 23, 2020

OPINION: Today's news that the Federal Government will introduce the toughest laws in the world when it comes to online trolling will save precious Australian lives.
This historical, legislative and social milestone is setting a standard that the rest of the world should – and I think will – follow.

**Fines of up to $111,000 for individuals who abuse, threaten, intimidate, post revenge porn, bully children and over half a million dollars for corporations like Facebook and Twitter, who refuse to take down offensive material or reveal the identities of perpetrators.**

A lack of legislation in the online space affects us all – even if you are not online.
The old attitude of "just get off social media" doesn't cut it anymore.
Get the perpetrators off social media.
Social media is how millions of Australians stay in touch with loved ones, run businesses, do their jobs, stay connected during pandemics and even if it's not your cup of tea – you are still vulnerable to attacks.
Former Broncos coach Anthony Siebold isn't on social media, yet his life – and that of his family – was almost ruined by things written online.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
There is no downside to stopping the horrific abuse that occurs online.
This is not an infringement on free speech.
This doesn't stop anyone from disagreeing, expressing opinions, being highly critical of others or just being mean – this is about punishing behaviours that cross a line.
What we deem acceptable behaviour in the real world needs to be reflected in the online space.
There is no longer any difference; we move seamlessly between both worlds now.
If abuse occurs in a real-world setting - be it domestic, public, in the workplace or otherwise - there are consequences, often criminal.
Legislation is clear about the illegality of behaviour such as verbal abuse, swearing and continual humiliation, name-calling, put-downs, psychological abuse, making threats, creating fear, harassment, stalking, and intimidation.
When these incidents happen in our society, our common understanding that they are criminal drives the public discourse and response.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
We would never tell a victim of domestic violence to just "ignore it", to "stop reading abusive emails or letters" or to become more resilient.
Yet, we tell this to victims of online abuse.
You put one person who commits an offence under this new legislation on the front page of the paper – with their fine in big, bold letters – and 90 per cent of this behaviour will stop.

Once people know there are real consequences and they aren't anonymous, the majority of it will stop.
This fight was never about me.
I have been exposed to some of the vilest abuse imaginable now for over a decade – I see the perpetrators for who they are.
This wasn't always the case.
The hordes of death threats, threats of physical violence, threats to rape my daughter that have been sent to me and written about me have taken me to some incredibly dark and scary places in the past - and I am strong and I am resilient.
I have always continued to do my job and front up – I have never let them win – but there is no shame in being affected by this kind of abuse or showing emotion.
It does take a toll.
It does not mean I am weak or vulnerable.
I am also not a snowflake.
I am in the public eye and there will always be people who will dislike me and disagree with me and that is part and parcel of my job – this is about when a line is crossed.
I fought and lobbied for tougher legislation on behalf of my daughter, on behalf of your children, and on behalf of every single Australian.
I know that many families who have lost loved ones to online abuse have fought a similar battle and deserve to feel immensely proud today.
This isn't the entire answer but it's a brilliant start.
The focus has needed to shift from coping mechanisms for victims to punishments for perpetrators for years - and this legislation begins to do that.

The below correspondence I received recently from a teacher paints this picture in heartbreaking detail:
"So, so often, kids are in tears at school.
"So, so often, kids are highly anxious and don't want to come to school. The reason?
"Social media and bullying/trolling on social media.
"I would say that close to 80 per cent of my student welfare time is spent on talking to students about issues that have happened online the night before or over the weekend.
"It is rife and it is relentless.
"The amount of bullying, trolling, abuse, intimidation and genuine mean behaviour that happens on social media and over online gaming is astronomical.
"We have tried everything from external professional programs, chaplaincy, counselling and nothing seems to get through.
"I just want to let you know Erin that I played your editorial to my class during the week. It was phenomenal!
"You could hear a pin drop in the room.
I have personally changed my conversations with kids about getting offline and just ignoring it.
"Now, I am going hard on the bullies and the cowards who are doing the bullying!
"They will be held accountable! My students have been referring to it all week and I have sent the link for the parents to listen to it as well..."

Another one of the thousands of pieces of correspondence I have received since taking up this fight:
"I hope and pray as an adult and a role model in media you can be a voice for the young who are bullied and traumatised through social media.

"As a mum to a traumatised adolescent… be brave… don't just be lip service… we need change… big responsibility… I know."
I took that message very seriously – I promised her I wouldn't just be lip service.

I want to thank the government.
I have met with Federal Communications Minister Paul Fletcher on multiple occasions – he and his team have been phenomenal.
They have all worked long and hard on this.
I met with the Prime Minister – he looked me in the eye and promised me they would do something – and he delivered. Thank you sir.
To Judge Paul Conlon, who was with me from the start of this fight; Warren Mundine as well; Peta Credlin – thank you for your insight and knowledge in how to get things done in the often slow world of legislation. Your public and private efforts were incredible.
My sister Felicity – an incredible lawyer – thank you for all of your advice and support.
To Anthony Siebold – your bravery in speaking out was the real catalyst for change. You should be immensely proud.
No one should ever have to endure what you and your family did.
To 60 Minutes, Maddi and Tom, for giving us a major platform – thank you.
To all the thousands of people who reached out and offered support and encouragement - thank you!
To victims and families who have lost loved ones to online abuse – thank you for fighting as well, many of you much harder and for much longer than I have.
This will be a long journey but it's started – and I couldn't be anymore grateful.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/erin-molan-australian-trolling-laws-will-save-lives/c769baef-d26a-434a-a6b1-880b5f507a47

There goes majority of the FORUM ????

@happy_tiger just started a go-fund-me page ..
Target $111,000 ?

Nothing to do with the On Line Trolls .....raising the money to shave all rangas

?


A hobbo doppelgänger ???


Gettin’ too close to the jury there mate ?

 

[FinestTigers]

'The time for change is now': Australia's new online trolling laws will save lives

By Erin Molan • Sports Presenter
3:29pm Dec 23, 2020

OPINION: Today's news that the Federal Government will introduce the toughest laws in the world when it comes to online trolling will save precious Australian lives.
This historical, legislative and social milestone is setting a standard that the rest of the world should – and I think will – follow.

**Fines of up to $111,000 for individuals who abuse, threaten, intimidate, post revenge porn, bully children and over half a million dollars for corporations like Facebook and Twitter, who refuse to take down offensive material or reveal the identities of perpetrators.**

A lack of legislation in the online space affects us all – even if you are not online.
The old attitude of "just get off social media" doesn't cut it anymore.
Get the perpetrators off social media.
Social media is how millions of Australians stay in touch with loved ones, run businesses, do their jobs, stay connected during pandemics and even if it's not your cup of tea – you are still vulnerable to attacks.
Former Broncos coach Anthony Siebold isn't on social media, yet his life – and that of his family – was almost ruined by things written online.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
There is no downside to stopping the horrific abuse that occurs online.
This is not an infringement on free speech.
This doesn't stop anyone from disagreeing, expressing opinions, being highly critical of others or just being mean – this is about punishing behaviours that cross a line.
What we deem acceptable behaviour in the real world needs to be reflected in the online space.
There is no longer any difference; we move seamlessly between both worlds now.
If abuse occurs in a real-world setting - be it domestic, public, in the workplace or otherwise - there are consequences, often criminal.
Legislation is clear about the illegality of behaviour such as verbal abuse, swearing and continual humiliation, name-calling, put-downs, psychological abuse, making threats, creating fear, harassment, stalking, and intimidation.
When these incidents happen in our society, our common understanding that they are criminal drives the public discourse and response.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
We would never tell a victim of domestic violence to just "ignore it", to "stop reading abusive emails or letters" or to become more resilient.
Yet, we tell this to victims of online abuse.
You put one person who commits an offence under this new legislation on the front page of the paper – with their fine in big, bold letters – and 90 per cent of this behaviour will stop.

Once people know there are real consequences and they aren't anonymous, the majority of it will stop.
This fight was never about me.
I have been exposed to some of the vilest abuse imaginable now for over a decade – I see the perpetrators for who they are.
This wasn't always the case.
The hordes of death threats, threats of physical violence, threats to rape my daughter that have been sent to me and written about me have taken me to some incredibly dark and scary places in the past - and I am strong and I am resilient.
I have always continued to do my job and front up – I have never let them win – but there is no shame in being affected by this kind of abuse or showing emotion.
It does take a toll.
It does not mean I am weak or vulnerable.
I am also not a snowflake.
I am in the public eye and there will always be people who will dislike me and disagree with me and that is part and parcel of my job – this is about when a line is crossed.
I fought and lobbied for tougher legislation on behalf of my daughter, on behalf of your children, and on behalf of every single Australian.
I know that many families who have lost loved ones to online abuse have fought a similar battle and deserve to feel immensely proud today.
This isn't the entire answer but it's a brilliant start.
The focus has needed to shift from coping mechanisms for victims to punishments for perpetrators for years - and this legislation begins to do that.

The below correspondence I received recently from a teacher paints this picture in heartbreaking detail:
"So, so often, kids are in tears at school.
"So, so often, kids are highly anxious and don't want to come to school. The reason?
"Social media and bullying/trolling on social media.
"I would say that close to 80 per cent of my student welfare time is spent on talking to students about issues that have happened online the night before or over the weekend.
"It is rife and it is relentless.
"The amount of bullying, trolling, abuse, intimidation and genuine mean behaviour that happens on social media and over online gaming is astronomical.
"We have tried everything from external professional programs, chaplaincy, counselling and nothing seems to get through.
"I just want to let you know Erin that I played your editorial to my class during the week. It was phenomenal!
"You could hear a pin drop in the room.
I have personally changed my conversations with kids about getting offline and just ignoring it.
"Now, I am going hard on the bullies and the cowards who are doing the bullying!
"They will be held accountable! My students have been referring to it all week and I have sent the link for the parents to listen to it as well..."

Another one of the thousands of pieces of correspondence I have received since taking up this fight:
"I hope and pray as an adult and a role model in media you can be a voice for the young who are bullied and traumatised through social media.

"As a mum to a traumatised adolescent… be brave… don't just be lip service… we need change… big responsibility… I know."
I took that message very seriously – I promised her I wouldn't just be lip service.

I want to thank the government.
I have met with Federal Communications Minister Paul Fletcher on multiple occasions – he and his team have been phenomenal.
They have all worked long and hard on this.
I met with the Prime Minister – he looked me in the eye and promised me they would do something – and he delivered. Thank you sir.
To Judge Paul Conlon, who was with me from the start of this fight; Warren Mundine as well; Peta Credlin – thank you for your insight and knowledge in how to get things done in the often slow world of legislation. Your public and private efforts were incredible.
My sister Felicity – an incredible lawyer – thank you for all of your advice and support.
To Anthony Siebold – your bravery in speaking out was the real catalyst for change. You should be immensely proud.
No one should ever have to endure what you and your family did.
To 60 Minutes, Maddi and Tom, for giving us a major platform – thank you.
To all the thousands of people who reached out and offered support and encouragement - thank you!
To victims and families who have lost loved ones to online abuse – thank you for fighting as well, many of you much harder and for much longer than I have.
This will be a long journey but it's started – and I couldn't be anymore grateful.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/erin-molan-australian-trolling-laws-will-save-lives/c769baef-d26a-434a-a6b1-880b5f507a47

There goes majority of the FORUM ????

Some of you people should again think long and hard about this thread,.
This is not about the Downvoting,
This is not Just about highlighting the uselessness and the fake value that the downvoting applies to a persons reputation that then appears on a persons profile.it’s more about the mental health of the downvoter.

**If i say**, the sun will rise again, this person/s downvotes me ?

If i say, is the pope a catholic? this person/s downvotes me ?

Does the sun rise in the east?” ?
“Is ice cold?” ?
“Does the sun set in the West?” ?
“Is midnight dark?” ?
“Do the Irish drink whiskey?” ?
“Do Russians love vodka? ?
"Do Aussies love a Shrimp on the barbie? ?
“What’s the opposite of no?” ?

"Is the sun hot? ?
"Do fishes swim? ?
"Are boogers salty? ?
"Do pigeons fly? ?
"Do vacuum cleaners suck? ?
"Is water wet? ?
"Is the sky blue? ?
"does a bear shit in the woods? ?
"do sheep wear sweaters? ?
"Is a frog’s arse watertight? ?

If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest drown too? ?

How come “fat chance” and “slim chance” mean the same thing? ?

If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? ?

Whats the opposite of down? ?
I said whats the opposite of down? ? ? ?

You could joke and laugh about the ridiculousness and the reasons of this downvoting , but the following is **not funny** the following is pure **sickness of the heart**.and there were many more before this.

When i made a post where i made serious comments and raised concerns and the effects that the lockdowns are having on families which potentially could lead to **depression and even DV**, but then i got downvoted for this?

**This is a sickness of the heart**.this is internet trolling, bullying,abuse,harrassment. You Mods have a lot to answer for.

I actually feel sorry for you, you think you are harrassing me but by making a habit of this your harrassing yourselves.

**You need help,**
help yourself by clicking on one of these links.

https://www.onlinepsychcare.com.au/
Call 1300 421 777
Online PsychCare

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://beyondblue.org.au/&ved=2ahUKEwiamqWRlqnyAhWsyzgGHYAgBH0QFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1FXiUy4JVTxmd25GWMisOB

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au
Mental health services and support contact

 

[innsaneink]

You seem very fragile.and I'm trying to be polite... A down vote is nothing but someone disagreeing.... Imagine if we all had the same opinion?

You're way out of line here

 

[innsaneink]

You seem very fragile.and I'm trying to be polite... A down vote is nothing but someone disagreeing.... Imagine if we all had the same opinion?

You're way out of line here

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

'The time for change is now': Australia's new online trolling laws will save lives

By Erin Molan • Sports Presenter
3:29pm Dec 23, 2020

OPINION: Today's news that the Federal Government will introduce the toughest laws in the world when it comes to online trolling will save precious Australian lives.
This historical, legislative and social milestone is setting a standard that the rest of the world should – and I think will – follow.

**Fines of up to $111,000 for individuals who abuse, threaten, intimidate, post revenge porn, bully children and over half a million dollars for corporations like Facebook and Twitter, who refuse to take down offensive material or reveal the identities of perpetrators.**

A lack of legislation in the online space affects us all – even if you are not online.
The old attitude of "just get off social media" doesn't cut it anymore.
Get the perpetrators off social media.
Social media is how millions of Australians stay in touch with loved ones, run businesses, do their jobs, stay connected during pandemics and even if it's not your cup of tea – you are still vulnerable to attacks.
Former Broncos coach Anthony Siebold isn't on social media, yet his life – and that of his family – was almost ruined by things written online.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
There is no downside to stopping the horrific abuse that occurs online.
This is not an infringement on free speech.
This doesn't stop anyone from disagreeing, expressing opinions, being highly critical of others or just being mean – this is about punishing behaviours that cross a line.
What we deem acceptable behaviour in the real world needs to be reflected in the online space.
There is no longer any difference; we move seamlessly between both worlds now.
If abuse occurs in a real-world setting - be it domestic, public, in the workplace or otherwise - there are consequences, often criminal.
Legislation is clear about the illegality of behaviour such as verbal abuse, swearing and continual humiliation, name-calling, put-downs, psychological abuse, making threats, creating fear, harassment, stalking, and intimidation.
When these incidents happen in our society, our common understanding that they are criminal drives the public discourse and response.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
We would never tell a victim of domestic violence to just "ignore it", to "stop reading abusive emails or letters" or to become more resilient.
Yet, we tell this to victims of online abuse.
You put one person who commits an offence under this new legislation on the front page of the paper – with their fine in big, bold letters – and 90 per cent of this behaviour will stop.

Once people know there are real consequences and they aren't anonymous, the majority of it will stop.
This fight was never about me.
I have been exposed to some of the vilest abuse imaginable now for over a decade – I see the perpetrators for who they are.
This wasn't always the case.
The hordes of death threats, threats of physical violence, threats to rape my daughter that have been sent to me and written about me have taken me to some incredibly dark and scary places in the past - and I am strong and I am resilient.
I have always continued to do my job and front up – I have never let them win – but there is no shame in being affected by this kind of abuse or showing emotion.
It does take a toll.
It does not mean I am weak or vulnerable.
I am also not a snowflake.
I am in the public eye and there will always be people who will dislike me and disagree with me and that is part and parcel of my job – this is about when a line is crossed.
I fought and lobbied for tougher legislation on behalf of my daughter, on behalf of your children, and on behalf of every single Australian.
I know that many families who have lost loved ones to online abuse have fought a similar battle and deserve to feel immensely proud today.
This isn't the entire answer but it's a brilliant start.
The focus has needed to shift from coping mechanisms for victims to punishments for perpetrators for years - and this legislation begins to do that.

The below correspondence I received recently from a teacher paints this picture in heartbreaking detail:
"So, so often, kids are in tears at school.
"So, so often, kids are highly anxious and don't want to come to school. The reason?
"Social media and bullying/trolling on social media.
"I would say that close to 80 per cent of my student welfare time is spent on talking to students about issues that have happened online the night before or over the weekend.
"It is rife and it is relentless.
"The amount of bullying, trolling, abuse, intimidation and genuine mean behaviour that happens on social media and over online gaming is astronomical.
"We have tried everything from external professional programs, chaplaincy, counselling and nothing seems to get through.
"I just want to let you know Erin that I played your editorial to my class during the week. It was phenomenal!
"You could hear a pin drop in the room.
I have personally changed my conversations with kids about getting offline and just ignoring it.
"Now, I am going hard on the bullies and the cowards who are doing the bullying!
"They will be held accountable! My students have been referring to it all week and I have sent the link for the parents to listen to it as well..."

Another one of the thousands of pieces of correspondence I have received since taking up this fight:
"I hope and pray as an adult and a role model in media you can be a voice for the young who are bullied and traumatised through social media.

"As a mum to a traumatised adolescent… be brave… don't just be lip service… we need change… big responsibility… I know."
I took that message very seriously – I promised her I wouldn't just be lip service.

I want to thank the government.
I have met with Federal Communications Minister Paul Fletcher on multiple occasions – he and his team have been phenomenal.
They have all worked long and hard on this.
I met with the Prime Minister – he looked me in the eye and promised me they would do something – and he delivered. Thank you sir.
To Judge Paul Conlon, who was with me from the start of this fight; Warren Mundine as well; Peta Credlin – thank you for your insight and knowledge in how to get things done in the often slow world of legislation. Your public and private efforts were incredible.
My sister Felicity – an incredible lawyer – thank you for all of your advice and support.
To Anthony Siebold – your bravery in speaking out was the real catalyst for change. You should be immensely proud.
No one should ever have to endure what you and your family did.
To 60 Minutes, Maddi and Tom, for giving us a major platform – thank you.
To all the thousands of people who reached out and offered support and encouragement - thank you!
To victims and families who have lost loved ones to online abuse – thank you for fighting as well, many of you much harder and for much longer than I have.
This will be a long journey but it's started – and I couldn't be anymore grateful.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/erin-molan-australian-trolling-laws-will-save-lives/c769baef-d26a-434a-a6b1-880b5f507a47

There goes majority of the FORUM ????


Some of you people should again think long and hard about this thread,.
This is not about the Downvoting,
This is not Just about highlighting the uselessness and the fake value that the downvoting applies to a persons reputation that then appears on a persons profile.it’s more about the mental health of the downvoter.

**If i say**, the sun will rise again, this person/s downvotes me ?

If i say, is the pope a catholic? this person/s downvotes me ?

Does the sun rise in the east?” ?
“Is ice cold?” ?
“Does the sun set in the West?” ?
“Is midnight dark?” ?
“Do the Irish drink whiskey?” ?
“Do Russians love vodka? ?
"Do Aussies love a Shrimp on the barbie? ?
“What’s the opposite of no?” ?

"Is the sun hot? ?
"Do fishes swim? ?
"Are boogers salty? ?
"Do pigeons fly? ?
"Do vacuum cleaners suck? ?
"Is water wet? ?
"Is the sky blue? ?
"does a bear shit in the woods? ?
"do sheep wear sweaters? ?
"Is a frog’s arse watertight? ?

If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest drown too? ?

How come “fat chance” and “slim chance” mean the same thing? ?

If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? ?

Whats the opposite of down? ?
I said whats the opposite of down? ? ? ?

You could joke and laugh about the ridiculousness and the reasons of this downvoting , but the following is **not funny** the following is pure **sickness of the heart**.and there were many more before this.

When i made a post where i made serious comments and raised concerns and the effects that the lockdowns are having on families which potentially could lead to **depression and even DV**, but then i got downvoted for this?

**This is a sickness of the heart**.this is internet trolling, bullying,abuse,harrassment. You Mods have a lot to answer for.

I actually feel sorry for you, you think you are harrassing me but by making a habit of this your harrassing yourselves.

**You need help,**
help yourself by clicking on one of these links.

https://www.onlinepsychcare.com.au/
Call 1300 421 777
Online PsychCare

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://beyondblue.org.au/&ved=2ahUKEwiamqWRlqnyAhWsyzgGHYAgBH0QFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1FXiUy4JVTxmd25GWMisOB

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au
Mental health services and support contact

Mate just because people disagree with you, it does not constitute bullying or harassment.

Being asked to provide sources for your opinions you claim to be fact is not bullying or harassment. People disagreeing with what you have to say, via either/both comment or voting, is not bullying or harassment.

There are people on here who regularly disagree with each other all the time and it never disintegrates into claims of bullying or harassment.

You've even been told so much by other posters that ***you've*** had a crack at for their content that if you don't like their content to foe them so that it doesn't offend your sensibilities. I also add that these people did not go on to complain that you were bullying or harassing them because you disagreed with them.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The rep system makes teenage girls out of grown men. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I have seen someone quote their own post wanting to know why it was downvoted, while casually claiming they don’t care. How fragile and self important must one feel.

 

[hobbo1]

'The time for change is now': Australia's new online trolling laws will save lives

By Erin Molan • Sports Presenter
3:29pm Dec 23, 2020

OPINION: Today's news that the Federal Government will introduce the toughest laws in the world when it comes to online trolling will save precious Australian lives.
This historical, legislative and social milestone is setting a standard that the rest of the world should – and I think will – follow.

**Fines of up to $111,000 for individuals who abuse, threaten, intimidate, post revenge porn, bully children and over half a million dollars for corporations like Facebook and Twitter, who refuse to take down offensive material or reveal the identities of perpetrators.**

A lack of legislation in the online space affects us all – even if you are not online.
The old attitude of "just get off social media" doesn't cut it anymore.
Get the perpetrators off social media.
Social media is how millions of Australians stay in touch with loved ones, run businesses, do their jobs, stay connected during pandemics and even if it's not your cup of tea – you are still vulnerable to attacks.
Former Broncos coach Anthony Siebold isn't on social media, yet his life – and that of his family – was almost ruined by things written online.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
There is no downside to stopping the horrific abuse that occurs online.
This is not an infringement on free speech.
This doesn't stop anyone from disagreeing, expressing opinions, being highly critical of others or just being mean – this is about punishing behaviours that cross a line.
What we deem acceptable behaviour in the real world needs to be reflected in the online space.
There is no longer any difference; we move seamlessly between both worlds now.
If abuse occurs in a real-world setting - be it domestic, public, in the workplace or otherwise - there are consequences, often criminal.
Legislation is clear about the illegality of behaviour such as verbal abuse, swearing and continual humiliation, name-calling, put-downs, psychological abuse, making threats, creating fear, harassment, stalking, and intimidation.
When these incidents happen in our society, our common understanding that they are criminal drives the public discourse and response.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
We would never tell a victim of domestic violence to just "ignore it", to "stop reading abusive emails or letters" or to become more resilient.
Yet, we tell this to victims of online abuse.
You put one person who commits an offence under this new legislation on the front page of the paper – with their fine in big, bold letters – and 90 per cent of this behaviour will stop.

Once people know there are real consequences and they aren't anonymous, the majority of it will stop.
This fight was never about me.
I have been exposed to some of the vilest abuse imaginable now for over a decade – I see the perpetrators for who they are.
This wasn't always the case.
The hordes of death threats, threats of physical violence, threats to rape my daughter that have been sent to me and written about me have taken me to some incredibly dark and scary places in the past - and I am strong and I am resilient.
I have always continued to do my job and front up – I have never let them win – but there is no shame in being affected by this kind of abuse or showing emotion.
It does take a toll.
It does not mean I am weak or vulnerable.
I am also not a snowflake.
I am in the public eye and there will always be people who will dislike me and disagree with me and that is part and parcel of my job – this is about when a line is crossed.
I fought and lobbied for tougher legislation on behalf of my daughter, on behalf of your children, and on behalf of every single Australian.
I know that many families who have lost loved ones to online abuse have fought a similar battle and deserve to feel immensely proud today.
This isn't the entire answer but it's a brilliant start.
The focus has needed to shift from coping mechanisms for victims to punishments for perpetrators for years - and this legislation begins to do that.

The below correspondence I received recently from a teacher paints this picture in heartbreaking detail:
"So, so often, kids are in tears at school.
"So, so often, kids are highly anxious and don't want to come to school. The reason?
"Social media and bullying/trolling on social media.
"I would say that close to 80 per cent of my student welfare time is spent on talking to students about issues that have happened online the night before or over the weekend.
"It is rife and it is relentless.
"The amount of bullying, trolling, abuse, intimidation and genuine mean behaviour that happens on social media and over online gaming is astronomical.
"We have tried everything from external professional programs, chaplaincy, counselling and nothing seems to get through.
"I just want to let you know Erin that I played your editorial to my class during the week. It was phenomenal!
"You could hear a pin drop in the room.
I have personally changed my conversations with kids about getting offline and just ignoring it.
"Now, I am going hard on the bullies and the cowards who are doing the bullying!
"They will be held accountable! My students have been referring to it all week and I have sent the link for the parents to listen to it as well..."

Another one of the thousands of pieces of correspondence I have received since taking up this fight:
"I hope and pray as an adult and a role model in media you can be a voice for the young who are bullied and traumatised through social media.

"As a mum to a traumatised adolescent… be brave… don't just be lip service… we need change… big responsibility… I know."
I took that message very seriously – I promised her I wouldn't just be lip service.

I want to thank the government.
I have met with Federal Communications Minister Paul Fletcher on multiple occasions – he and his team have been phenomenal.
They have all worked long and hard on this.
I met with the Prime Minister – he looked me in the eye and promised me they would do something – and he delivered. Thank you sir.
To Judge Paul Conlon, who was with me from the start of this fight; Warren Mundine as well; Peta Credlin – thank you for your insight and knowledge in how to get things done in the often slow world of legislation. Your public and private efforts were incredible.
My sister Felicity – an incredible lawyer – thank you for all of your advice and support.
To Anthony Siebold – your bravery in speaking out was the real catalyst for change. You should be immensely proud.
No one should ever have to endure what you and your family did.
To 60 Minutes, Maddi and Tom, for giving us a major platform – thank you.
To all the thousands of people who reached out and offered support and encouragement - thank you!
To victims and families who have lost loved ones to online abuse – thank you for fighting as well, many of you much harder and for much longer than I have.
This will be a long journey but it's started – and I couldn't be anymore grateful.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/erin-molan-australian-trolling-laws-will-save-lives/c769baef-d26a-434a-a6b1-880b5f507a47

There goes majority of the FORUM ????


Some of you people should again think long and hard about this thread,.
This is not about the Downvoting,
This is not Just about highlighting the uselessness and the fake value that the downvoting applies to a persons reputation that then appears on a persons profile.it’s more about the mental health of the downvoter.

**If i say**, the sun will rise again, this person/s downvotes me ?

If i say, is the pope a catholic? this person/s downvotes me ?

Does the sun rise in the east?” ?
“Is ice cold?” ?
“Does the sun set in the West?” ?
“Is midnight dark?” ?
“Do the Irish drink whiskey?” ?
“Do Russians love vodka? ?
"Do Aussies love a Shrimp on the barbie? ?
“What’s the opposite of no?” ?

"Is the sun hot? ?
"Do fishes swim? ?
"Are boogers salty? ?
"Do pigeons fly? ?
"Do vacuum cleaners suck? ?
"Is water wet? ?
"Is the sky blue? ?
"does a bear shit in the woods? ?
"do sheep wear sweaters? ?
"Is a frog’s arse watertight? ?

If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest drown too? ?

How come “fat chance” and “slim chance” mean the same thing? ?

If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? ?

Whats the opposite of down? ?
I said whats the opposite of down? ? ? ?

You could joke and laugh about the ridiculousness and the reasons of this downvoting , but the following is **not funny** the following is pure **sickness of the heart**.and there were many more before this.

When i made a post where i made serious comments and raised concerns and the effects that the lockdowns are having on families which potentially could lead to **depression and even DV**, but then i got downvoted for this?

**This is a sickness of the heart**.this is internet trolling, bullying,abuse,harrassment. You Mods have a lot to answer for.

I actually feel sorry for you, you think you are harrassing me but by making a habit of this your harrassing yourselves.

**You need help,**
help yourself by clicking on one of these links.

https://www.onlinepsychcare.com.au/
Call 1300 421 777
Online PsychCare

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://beyondblue.org.au/&ved=2ahUKEwiamqWRlqnyAhWsyzgGHYAgBH0QFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1FXiUy4JVTxmd25GWMisOB

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au
Mental health services and support contact

Have you thought about coming over to Discord ?

 

[tig_prmz]

'The time for change is now': Australia's new online trolling laws will save lives

By Erin Molan • Sports Presenter
3:29pm Dec 23, 2020

OPINION: Today's news that the Federal Government will introduce the toughest laws in the world when it comes to online trolling will save precious Australian lives.
This historical, legislative and social milestone is setting a standard that the rest of the world should – and I think will – follow.

**Fines of up to $111,000 for individuals who abuse, threaten, intimidate, post revenge porn, bully children and over half a million dollars for corporations like Facebook and Twitter, who refuse to take down offensive material or reveal the identities of perpetrators.**

A lack of legislation in the online space affects us all – even if you are not online.
The old attitude of "just get off social media" doesn't cut it anymore.
Get the perpetrators off social media.
Social media is how millions of Australians stay in touch with loved ones, run businesses, do their jobs, stay connected during pandemics and even if it's not your cup of tea – you are still vulnerable to attacks.
Former Broncos coach Anthony Siebold isn't on social media, yet his life – and that of his family – was almost ruined by things written online.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
There is no downside to stopping the horrific abuse that occurs online.
This is not an infringement on free speech.
This doesn't stop anyone from disagreeing, expressing opinions, being highly critical of others or just being mean – this is about punishing behaviours that cross a line.
What we deem acceptable behaviour in the real world needs to be reflected in the online space.
There is no longer any difference; we move seamlessly between both worlds now.
If abuse occurs in a real-world setting - be it domestic, public, in the workplace or otherwise - there are consequences, often criminal.
Legislation is clear about the illegality of behaviour such as verbal abuse, swearing and continual humiliation, name-calling, put-downs, psychological abuse, making threats, creating fear, harassment, stalking, and intimidation.
When these incidents happen in our society, our common understanding that they are criminal drives the public discourse and response.
The time for change is now. There's no question about it.
We would never tell a victim of domestic violence to just "ignore it", to "stop reading abusive emails or letters" or to become more resilient.
Yet, we tell this to victims of online abuse.
You put one person who commits an offence under this new legislation on the front page of the paper – with their fine in big, bold letters – and 90 per cent of this behaviour will stop.

Once people know there are real consequences and they aren't anonymous, the majority of it will stop.
This fight was never about me.
I have been exposed to some of the vilest abuse imaginable now for over a decade – I see the perpetrators for who they are.
This wasn't always the case.
The hordes of death threats, threats of physical violence, threats to rape my daughter that have been sent to me and written about me have taken me to some incredibly dark and scary places in the past - and I am strong and I am resilient.
I have always continued to do my job and front up – I have never let them win – but there is no shame in being affected by this kind of abuse or showing emotion.
It does take a toll.
It does not mean I am weak or vulnerable.
I am also not a snowflake.
I am in the public eye and there will always be people who will dislike me and disagree with me and that is part and parcel of my job – this is about when a line is crossed.
I fought and lobbied for tougher legislation on behalf of my daughter, on behalf of your children, and on behalf of every single Australian.
I know that many families who have lost loved ones to online abuse have fought a similar battle and deserve to feel immensely proud today.
This isn't the entire answer but it's a brilliant start.
The focus has needed to shift from coping mechanisms for victims to punishments for perpetrators for years - and this legislation begins to do that.

The below correspondence I received recently from a teacher paints this picture in heartbreaking detail:
"So, so often, kids are in tears at school.
"So, so often, kids are highly anxious and don't want to come to school. The reason?
"Social media and bullying/trolling on social media.
"I would say that close to 80 per cent of my student welfare time is spent on talking to students about issues that have happened online the night before or over the weekend.
"It is rife and it is relentless.
"The amount of bullying, trolling, abuse, intimidation and genuine mean behaviour that happens on social media and over online gaming is astronomical.
"We have tried everything from external professional programs, chaplaincy, counselling and nothing seems to get through.
"I just want to let you know Erin that I played your editorial to my class during the week. It was phenomenal!
"You could hear a pin drop in the room.
I have personally changed my conversations with kids about getting offline and just ignoring it.
"Now, I am going hard on the bullies and the cowards who are doing the bullying!
"They will be held accountable! My students have been referring to it all week and I have sent the link for the parents to listen to it as well..."

Another one of the thousands of pieces of correspondence I have received since taking up this fight:
"I hope and pray as an adult and a role model in media you can be a voice for the young who are bullied and traumatised through social media.

"As a mum to a traumatised adolescent… be brave… don't just be lip service… we need change… big responsibility… I know."
I took that message very seriously – I promised her I wouldn't just be lip service.

I want to thank the government.
I have met with Federal Communications Minister Paul Fletcher on multiple occasions – he and his team have been phenomenal.
They have all worked long and hard on this.
I met with the Prime Minister – he looked me in the eye and promised me they would do something – and he delivered. Thank you sir.
To Judge Paul Conlon, who was with me from the start of this fight; Warren Mundine as well; Peta Credlin – thank you for your insight and knowledge in how to get things done in the often slow world of legislation. Your public and private efforts were incredible.
My sister Felicity – an incredible lawyer – thank you for all of your advice and support.
To Anthony Siebold – your bravery in speaking out was the real catalyst for change. You should be immensely proud.
No one should ever have to endure what you and your family did.
To 60 Minutes, Maddi and Tom, for giving us a major platform – thank you.
To all the thousands of people who reached out and offered support and encouragement - thank you!
To victims and families who have lost loved ones to online abuse – thank you for fighting as well, many of you much harder and for much longer than I have.
This will be a long journey but it's started – and I couldn't be anymore grateful.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/erin-molan-australian-trolling-laws-will-save-lives/c769baef-d26a-434a-a6b1-880b5f507a47

There goes majority of the FORUM ????


Some of you people should again think long and hard about this thread,.
This is not about the Downvoting,
This is not Just about highlighting the uselessness and the fake value that the downvoting applies to a persons reputation that then appears on a persons profile.it’s more about the mental health of the downvoter.

**If i say**, the sun will rise again, this person/s downvotes me ?

If i say, is the pope a catholic? this person/s downvotes me ?

Does the sun rise in the east?” ?
“Is ice cold?” ?
“Does the sun set in the West?” ?
“Is midnight dark?” ?
“Do the Irish drink whiskey?” ?
“Do Russians love vodka? ?
"Do Aussies love a Shrimp on the barbie? ?
“What’s the opposite of no?” ?

"Is the sun hot? ?
"Do fishes swim? ?
"Are boogers salty? ?
"Do pigeons fly? ?
"Do vacuum cleaners suck? ?
"Is water wet? ?
"Is the sky blue? ?
"does a bear shit in the woods? ?
"do sheep wear sweaters? ?
"Is a frog’s arse watertight? ?

If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest drown too? ?

How come “fat chance” and “slim chance” mean the same thing? ?

If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? ?

Whats the opposite of down? ?
I said whats the opposite of down? ? ? ?

You could joke and laugh about the ridiculousness and the reasons of this downvoting , but the following is **not funny** the following is pure **sickness of the heart**.and there were many more before this.

When i made a post where i made serious comments and raised concerns and the effects that the lockdowns are having on families which potentially could lead to **depression and even DV**, but then i got downvoted for this?

**This is a sickness of the heart**.this is internet trolling, bullying,abuse,harrassment. You Mods have a lot to answer for.

I actually feel sorry for you, you think you are harrassing me but by making a habit of this your harrassing yourselves.

**You need help,**
help yourself by clicking on one of these links.

https://www.onlinepsychcare.com.au/
Call 1300 421 777
Online PsychCare

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://beyondblue.org.au/&ved=2ahUKEwiamqWRlqnyAhWsyzgGHYAgBH0QFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1FXiUy4JVTxmd25GWMisOB

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au
Mental health services and support contact

Hey mate, I would PM you but I think needs to be said publically.

On the internet, you will find all kinds of people and the Mods aren't responsible for everything that gets said (or unsaid) on this forum.

If you feel this is affecting your mental health, I think you need to avoid internet forums in general and maybe during lockdown, focus more on private FB groups or family whatsapp chats for social interaction rather than here.

Just my 2-cents worth. You can choose to ignore it.

 

[Guest]

Maybe it's time to remove the down vote.
I hardly ever use it now but I used to just hit it if I disagreed but couldn't be bothered typing a response.
I didn't realise it was taken so seriously until I read otherwise.
So maybe just remove it if it causes such distress.

 

[Guest]

To whoever. That's funny.

 

[dazza65]

Maybe it's time to remove the down vote.
I hardly ever use it now but I used to just hit it if I disagreed but couldn't be bothered typing a response.
I didn't realise it was taken so seriously until I read otherwise.
So maybe just remove it if it causes such distress.

I would say no to this.

I think this just adds to the whole issue of "everything has to be positive all the time.... everyones a winner....say something contrary to the popular opinion or vocal minority and you get cancelled.....etc etc etc"

People need to understand that not everyone agrees with you all the time, not everyone is perfect all the time..... there some bad shite out there, both people and situations and you need to either "handle it" or remove yourself from situations that you find displeasing rather than expect the whole world will bend to your particular take on the world...... just me.

 

[Demps]

Maybe it's time to remove the down vote.
I hardly ever use it now but I used to just hit it if I disagreed but couldn't be bothered typing a response.
I didn't realise it was taken so seriously until I read otherwise.
So maybe just remove it if it causes such distress.


I would say no to this.

I think this just adds to the whole issue of "everything has to be positive all the time.... everyones a winner....say something contrary to the popular opinion or vocal minority and you get cancelled.....etc etc etc"

People need to understand that not everyone agrees with you all the time, not everyone is perfect all the time..... there some bad shite out there, both people and situations and you need to either "handle it" or remove yourself from situations that you find displeasing rather than expect the whole world will bend to your particular take on the world...... just me.

X2
Can't have the good without the bad.

 

[FinestTigers]

@hobbo1 said,
Have you thought about coming over to Discord ?

Discord?
Is this place not discorded enough?
Mate, seriously, i've got a lot of unfinished business here and i'm not going anywhere until i'm satisfied that it's been dealt with properly, what the Mods deny and fail to see is that there is trolling and harassment here, **the trollers** are using the downvote function **as a disguised** form of hate speech **bullying** harassment **without a shadow of a doubt**.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

@hobbo1 said,
Have you thought about coming over to Discord ?

Discord?
Is this place not discorded enough?
Mate, seriously, i've got a lot of unfinished business here and i'm not going anywhere until i'm satisfied that it's been dealt with properly, what the Mods deny and fail to see is that there is trolling and harassment here, **the trollers** are using the downvote function **as a disguised** form of hate speech **bullying** harassment **without a shadow of a doubt**.

I think you’re the one trolling us.

 

[PJ_]

The rep system makes teenage girls out of grown men. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I have seen someone quote their own post wanting to know why it was downvoted, while casually claiming they don’t care. How fragile and self important must one feel.

Ppl down vote a post about down voting. 🤣
Love this forum haha.

 

[Guest]

@hobbo1 said,
Have you thought about coming over to Discord ?

Discord?
Is this place not discorded enough?
Mate, seriously, i've got a lot of unfinished business here and i'm not going anywhere until i'm satisfied that it's been dealt with properly, what the Mods deny and fail to see is that there is trolling and harassment here, **the trollers** are using the downvote function **as a disguised** form of hate speech **bullying** harassment **without a shadow of a doubt**.

Why do you keep engaging in a situation that's clearly causing distress?
Just remove yourself from it and carry on with life.

 

[Demps]

@FinestTigers has 162 posts with 119 upvotes.

This place, as we ALL know... is moderated to an extremely high standard.
Bullying and harassment has NEVER been tolerated. It's also dealt with by the mods on every occasion.

A heated debate with differing opinions is NOT bullying or harassment, until lines are crossed which rarely happens and if it does, is moderated accordingly.

The internet can be a scary place but this forum is definitely a place of safety and security.
I think the issue might actually only exist to you.

Don't take it so personal.
Grown men should be so thankful if the biggest troubles of their lives is a downvote on a footy forum.

Shout out @EVERYONE, especially the mods keeping this place clean and anyone who disagrees with me because it makes for good conversation.

🥷💪🏼🥀

 

[Guest]

@hobbo1 said,
Have you thought about coming over to Discord ?

Discord?
Is this place not discorded enough?
Mate, seriously, i've got a lot of unfinished business here and i'm not going anywhere until i'm satisfied that it's been dealt with properly, what the Mods deny and fail to see is that there is trolling and harassment here, **the trollers** are using the downvote function **as a disguised** form of hate speech **bullying** harassment **without a shadow of a doubt**.

Well I can tell you right now you're going to be waiting for a considerable amount of time if this is the line in the sand you have drawn for yourself.