Osama Bin Laden Dead

[Cultured_Bogan]

I welcome the news Stryker. I support our troops to the hilt mate, but I am critical of the praise that the US receive for reeling in the monster they helped create.

It's a vicious cycle unfortunately. It's human nature to fear what we don't understand, but that doesn't surprise me when we allow our conventions and beliefs to define us instead of being an extension of ourselves.

On the other hand, who wants to bet Obama just secured his second term?
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[redemption]

I welcome the news Stryker. I support our troops to the hilt mate, but I am critical of the praise that the US receive for reeling in the monster they helped create.

It's a vicious cycle unfortunately. It's human nature to fear what we don't understand, but that doesn't surprise me when we allow our conventions and beliefs to define us instead of being an extension of ourselves.

On the other hand, who wants to bet Obama just secured his second term?
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With you CB!!!

Great post buddy!! This is not a two-dimensional or black & white issue - however I hate pseudo-intellectual kids like kul telling us we have no right to feel aggrieved!!!

Reagan created this monster (no arguments entered into) - but the attrocity of 9/11 & the death of my civilian mate in the 2nd tower haunts me today!!!

 

[magpie_mania]

I welcome the news Stryker. I support our troops to the hilt mate, but I am critical of the praise that the US receive for reeling in the monster they helped create.

It's a vicious cycle unfortunately. It's human nature to fear what we don't understand, but that doesn't surprise me when we allow our conventions and beliefs to define us instead of being an extension of ourselves.

On the other hand, who wants to bet Obama just secured his second term?
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Yes they supported him but when the us supported him it was under his disguise of being the poor little afghan that was being invaded by communist soviets.Once his power rose it got to his head as it does witl all fro tthe middle east and the rest is history.

 

[Kul]

Please have a good solid rethink of exactly who is making a fool of themselves on the internet kul and if you think its me I suggest you pick up a copy of tomorrows paper and see the 99% of views and thoughts of the public on this tyrant.

wait a second… so you are basically saying that I support Bin Laden, Al Qaeda and their actions?

sorry, but what part of respecting the attributes of an enemy is wrong? And which part of that shows support for the enemy?

I admire bin Laden's ability to outwit the most formidable military power in the world for 15 years - that doesn't make me an Al Qeada supporter and I in fact supported both wars and the effort to kill him
I admire Hitler's ability to unite the German nation, rebuild its shattered economy and conquer most of mainland Europe within 15 years, but that doesn't make me a Nazi or a supporter of anything they did
I admire Stalin's ability to lead the Soviet Union in defeating Germany on the Eastern Front even though he killed most of the family on my dad's side.
I admire the Japanese Empire's cunning boldness in attacking the US and their strength in honour even though I had several relatives either killed or put in Japanese POW camps
I admired the power of Cyclone Yasi, yet I hated its consequences and didn't wish any death or damage on anyone.

None of this admiration of qualities can in any way be regarded as support for their evil-doings. It is simply respect for the enemy.

So I think it's you that needs to re-read the posts and retract the countless false assumptions that you've made about me and my argument. Good, OBL is dead! He was evil and lead a murderous campaign that resulted in countless deaths. I'm pretty sure both agree on that.

As for the debate about education, you have taken the comments in the post completely out of the context in which they were framed. I'm willing to put that part of this argument aside as I actually agree with most of what you are saying. It was not an attempt to glorify higher education, simply a response to Ink's cheap shot at me. Since it wasn't even intended for you, I don't know why were are even debating a subject which clearly we all have the same opinion on...

 

[happy_tiger]

Don't agree that the body is not being returned to the family . No matter what he has done (and he has done bad ) but you should always respect the dead . He will be judged for his acts by the bloke upstairs (well downstairs who am I trying to kid ).

haha who cares? the bloke was SCUM.

Its a shame he is dead….too good for the dog. Then again if I was on the end of that weapon he wouldnt be breathing.

As for him being judged? your assuming an aweful lot there.....

Sorry Stryker not sure what I am assuming ?? Maybe YOU could tell ME what i was assuming .

 

[stryker]

Don't agree that the body is not being returned to the family . No matter what he has done (and he has done bad ) but you should always respect the dead . He will be judged for his acts by the bloke upstairs (well downstairs who am I trying to kid ).

haha who cares? the bloke was SCUM.

Its a shame he is dead….too good for the dog. Then again if I was on the end of that weapon he wouldnt be breathing.

As for him being judged? your assuming an aweful lot there.....

Sorry Stryker not sure what I am assuming ?? Maybe YOU could tell ME what i was assuming .

Just a slight dig at religion there Happy. I will say though that it is at times like these that I wouldnt be upset to find out God is real….apparently that would mean there is a hell which is where this cretan should be.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I don't think anyone, apart from Islamic hardliners of course, would truly admire the bloke. Kul is a good bloke and I don't think for a second he'd support the rubbish that bin Laden got up to, forums dont allow for expression and it's easy to be Misunderstood.

The issue is complex, but unfortunately you have to take a grey situation and make it black or white. The world is somewhat a safer place in the short term while they regroup, so I can't argue with that.
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[Kul]

I also studied geo-politics (amongst other pursuits) & worked for 15 years with Defence - don't EVER try to tell me anything until you grow the frick up!!!!!
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however I hate pseudo-intellectual kids like kul telling us we have no right to feel aggrieved!!!

You know I respect your opinion red. I wasn't aware you worked in that area though, so my increased respect for your opinion on such issues should be noted.
But I'm just confused… where am I saying that you shouldn't feel aggravated? I'm not attacking you or anyone for anything. Sorry, it just seems as though you guys think i'm some pro-Terrorist nutter...

@CB - thanks mate. Yes, it seems as though the expression has been completely misinterpreted. Hopefully it can be cleared up.

 

[happy_tiger]

Thats exactly what I was getting at Stryker . I still stand by my point though . Everyone deserves a proper burial . Every mass murderer has a Mum , Dad, kids ,wife brother or sister who still loves him that probably had nothing to do with his actions that deserve the right to grieve in whatever way they feel . It also may have shown some compassion that maybe would help the Americans and the way they are percieved in North Africa and the Middle East . I think all the Americans have done is given the bird to the Extremists and will create another wave of terrorism .

 

[tiger4ever]

I know one thing all these things seem to happen over religous beliefs.Yes i know there was other issues but nobody would really know enough to comment

American soldiers were getting fired at apparently so what were they to do.

Im just happy for all the familys of the people that lost their life….they got some justice.

Im not racist or religous and didnt go to uni but thats just what i would want if it was a loved one i lost.

The guys not even worth mentioning or arguing about.

 

[redemption]

I don't think anyone, apart from Islamic hardliners of course, would truly admire the bloke. Kul is a good bloke and I don't think for a second he'd support the rubbish that bin Laden got up to, forums dont allow for expression and it's easy to be Misunderstood.

The issue is complex, but unfortunately you have to take a grey situation and make it black or white. The world is somewhat a safer place in the short term while they regroup, so I can't argue with that.
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You are right CB - and I know kul is a good kid - but he needs to be more sensitive to the loss of others!!!

I consistently referred to flippancy - not malice!!!

As for making the world safer - that remains debatable as he was purely a figurehead & martyrdom has the potential to increase that influence!!!

I felt no joy or (pardon the unintentional self-reference) redemption!!!!

 

[stryker]

I am ok with the decision to not allow these extremists a shrine. They dont deserve one and neither does he.

As for the reprisals….it's the day and age we live in. These crazy idiots will never wake up to themselves. They will never stop. We just have to be far more vigilant in our security...especially border.

 

[Kul]

You are right CB - and I know kul is a good kid - but he needs to be more sensitive to the loss of others!!!

I didn't realise that this was your concern mate. If that's the case then I am sorry for your loss and appologise for any hurt that my opinion on OBL has caused you. I didn't directly know anyone who died in 9/11 but I appreciate how these opinions of unaffected people may appear to disregard the feelings of those more closely linked to such issues.

But rest assured that in no way is my argument one of glorification of anything he did, simply recognition of his impact. If memory serves me, Time magazine faced this same 'dilemma' when debating the eligibility of OBL for "person of the year".

*edit

 

[redemption]

I am ok with the decision to not allow these extremists a shrine. They dont deserve one and neither does he.

As for the reprisals….it's the day and age we live in. These crazy idiots will never wake up to themselves. They will never stop. We just have to be far more vigilant in our security...especially border.

You do grasp how large our borders are compared to any other country don't you mate???

And the cost of deploying Patrol Boats off our northern coast-line is huge as we do it now (+ we only have 12 ACPBs - with just 10 running at any given time - to do it)!!!!

 

[happy_tiger]

I am ok with the decision to not allow these extremists a shrine. They dont deserve one and neither does he.

As for the reprisals….it's the day and age we live in. These crazy idiots will never wake up to themselves. They will never stop. We just have to be far more vigilant in our security...especially border.

Sorry to be having a shot Stryker , but what you seriously don't think they will make him a Martyr out of him whether he has a grave or not . You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise . My point is that the US should have thought about 'How can we get the Middle East and the majority of Muslims on side " That could of been 1 way . All the Americans have done is brought the risk of terrorism to all Western countries and there peoples ( You , I our families and everyone else on the Forum) back to the top of the extremists list . Don't have an issue with the way they have carried out ops , that's not the issue .

 

[Kul]

I am ok with the decision to not allow these extremists a shrine. They dont deserve one and neither does he.

As for the reprisals….it's the day and age we live in. These crazy idiots will never wake up to themselves. They will never stop. We just have to be far more vigilant in our security...especially border.

You do grasp how large our borders are compared to any other country don't you mate???

And the cost of deploying Patrol Boats off our northern coast-line is huge as we do it now (+ we only have 12 ACPBs - with just 10 running at any given time - to do it)!!!!

plus address the risks associated with 'home grown' extremism. This is what concerns me the most and it is in part due to the failings of successive governments' policies both here and overseas.

OBL's death will sadly do nothing to address this.

 

[stryker]

Point being Red they're are going to keep going whether he is around or not.

Happy, martydome was always on the cards, whether he was arrested and stood trial or shot dead and dumped in the ocean.

The US never stood a chance of getting them on side, their hatred is far too deep seeded for that.

 

[happy_tiger]

Point being Red they're are going to keep going whether he is around or not.

Happy, martydome was always on the cards, whether he was arrested and stood trial or shot dead and dumped in the ocean.

The US never stood a chance of getting them on side, their hatred is far too deep seeded for that.

Yeah agree Stryker , but I think you have to try and many of the fence sitters in Middle East and Muslims would of appreciated it . the US will never win this battle . Its even less winnable than Vietnam and you would have thought they would have learnt their lesson from that schmozzle .No you are right they will never win the extremists over and they should not be even trying to win that argument .I'm worried about the Muslims who are 50-50 on their beliefs .

 

[Kul]

the BBC has been running a good series on Pakistani society over the last couple of months, touching on some very sensitive areas, particularly the blasphemy laws. Whilst not getting into the debate about the laws themselves and how they are used, it's hard not to question what direction society there is heading in. One can only hope that this news wont trigger violent retaliation there, especially considering that Pakistan has nukes… 😕

 

[alien]

I will say though that it is at times like these that I wouldnt be upset to find out God is real….apparently that would mean there is a hell which is where this cretan should be.

god existing doesnt mean there is a hell