Our immediate future

[colmcd]

Following an ordinary couple of days I woke up wearing brown coloured glasses. I think that our recruitment may not only produce an ordinary season next year, but lock us in to the bottom on the table for years to come.
We have signed experienced first graders who are nothing special and will not improve much (Reynolds, McQueen, Matulino, Packer etc) for a lot of coin over a lot of years.
At the same time we have given fringe first graders like MCK extended deals for at least 2 seasons.
This means that we have locked up a large proportion of our cap meaning younger players with some potential (Aloiai, LoLo, Brooks etc) may be picked off by other clubs if they step up

Good comment. I had been wondering myself why we signed who we did!

Newcastle clearly signed some very old hands, Heighington, Lillyman and brought juniors or much more experienced players. One reason may be that the Oldies will retire sooner allowing the Juniors to step up.

Reynolds, McQueen (except injury), Matulino and Packer all seem to be in the mid range bracket. The kind of player who does a good but not great job. I think he Signed Reynolds because at the time he was by far the best halves player available and Cleary admired his form. The other three provide a fairly solid front row rotation. At least in the front row, he wants people taking a break and no "star" pushing the team forward.

The rest of the signings are the opposite to the above. Twal, Tui, Taane Milne, Founa. They are all rough punts. Twal has worked out fantastically and I think Tui will be a great asset for us because he is a little unique, a kicker and has something to his style that makes him interesting. But Tui, Milne and Founa may totally go south and play poorly. The only one of these three in key positions is Tui and he can be replaced.

I think Cleary's signing aim was to get the Tigers into the next bracket. I.e. to build a strong team that would go from 13-16 too 7-11 on the ladder. So no "superstars" yet, but a team that has a solid base to drive forward with a bit of a spine and decent defense.

Now here is the kicker. Cleary has been willing to sign Moylan. He is ready to bring on some superstars and he believes we are 1 year ahead of where he thought we would be…. This is good news, lets hope we break the 8.

 

[colmcd]

Change is a good thing and could see our new players reap the reward. Our biggest issue is how our combinations gel, but our biggest plus which far outweighs any negatives is there are no more divas in the team and the players know Cleary is in charge. We just need a good run with injuries and I see us pressing for a top 8 spot.

This, I would rather follow a champion team than a team of champions. With the exception of fullback every signing so far has been an upgrade on what we had

We have a team that has good players, but "Our biggest issue is how our combinations gel"… i cannot agree more. So many different players who have not played together now playing together. I think Cleary can work on Defense well, but Gel takes time, trusting that the guy next too you has the tackle takes time.

A Champion team of "good" players is what we want. But this will take a long time. I always thought the Bulldogs in the 90's were that team. I think Manly kinda had that a few years ago. It will take awhile to build.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Someone(maybe 2) out of Suli, Fonua, Marsters won't make our 17
If naiqama does, he will be fighting for his spot every week
One of Twal, Sue, Grant, Eiso probably misses out
Benji is unlikely to make our run on side, maybe not the 17

How can we be worse than this year?? Our depth is infinitely better, and the strength of our recruitment has been to build a flat roster of 20 + first graders

 

[sideline_eye]

A dominant pack equals wins. We will have a dominant pack next year and we'll win more than we lose.

Only one thing wrong with your thoughts sidey…people forget that Brooks has to step right up to the plate and guide this team around the park and finish the sets off well...if he doesn't then someone else has to take control of the team,he has had enough chances for mine...he has to shape up or ship out..sick of hearing about potential,now all I wont to hear is competitiveness for the whole season,he has had plenty of time,chances and excuses...Ivan will make him or break him next season and I hope for Brooks sake he does come good..he was doing well towards the end of last year and should really improve... :astonished:

Yep,TT, you are correct but my optimism is partly based on Ivan's remarks late in the season that he rated Brooks quite highly and was more optimistic of the team's success with Brooks than without him. I don't have the exact quotes but that was how I took his meaning.

Whatever Cleary may think about Brooks, he's not silly enough to bake him in public.

He can't come out and say that he can't tackle to save his life, or that his short kicking game is on the nose. Clearys thoughts probably won't be seen until about round six next year.

Yes, GCT but he also didn't have to single him out for praise either but he still did. After doing that why would he then hold the views that he can't tackle etc. Cleary is the type of coach who, seeing weaknesses in a player's game would try to remedy those weaknesses, not harbour private negative thoughts.
Anyway, for now I'll go with Ivan's ability to teach and we'll all know how successful he is next season.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

If Brooks doesn't stand up, I'm not sure who Cleary turns to. I'm happy that Benji will end his career here, but apart from nostalgia, he won't have much to offer I don't think.

 

[NT_Tiger]

I may be talking complete crap here but it appears to me that the one consistent thing Ivan Cleary recruited for was attitude. All of his selections want to play and all are prepared to have a go. They won't die wondering. A word that was overused in the 90's was synergy, but it is a good word for WT. If they gel, the team will be greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[MightyMaggy]

I may be talking complete crap here but it appears to me that the one consistent thing Ivan Cleary recruited for was attitude. All of his selections want to play and all are prepared to have a go. They won't die wondering. A word that was overused in the 90's was synergy, but it is a good word for WT. If they gel, the team will be greater than the sum of its parts.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. What Ivan was facing was a team, where the four "big stars" were of questionable value to the team. Their contribution to the team results was not commensurate with the amount of money they commanded from the salary cap, if the Club offered them the money they wanted to sign their next contracts. The problem had existed for some time and had to be fixed.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Only one thing wrong with your thoughts sidey…people forget that Brooks has to step right up to the plate and guide this team around the park and finish the sets off well...if he doesn't then someone else has to take control of the team,he has had enough chances for mine...he has to shape up or ship out..sick of hearing about potential,now all I wont to hear is competitiveness for the whole season,he has had plenty of time,chances and excuses...Ivan will make him or break him next season and I hope for Brooks sake he does come good..he was doing well towards the end of last year and should really improve... :astonished:

Yep,TT, you are correct but my optimism is partly based on Ivan's remarks late in the season that he rated Brooks quite highly and was more optimistic of the team's success with Brooks than without him. I don't have the exact quotes but that was how I took his meaning.

Whatever Cleary may think about Brooks, he's not silly enough to bake him in public.

He can't come out and say that he can't tackle to save his life, or that his short kicking game is on the nose. Clearys thoughts probably won't be seen until about round six next year.

Yes, GCT but he also didn't have to single him out for praise either but he still did. After doing that why would he then hold the views that he can't tackle etc. Cleary is the type of coach who, seeing weaknesses in a player's game would try to remedy those weaknesses, not harbour private negative thoughts.
Anyway, for now I'll go with Ivan's ability to teach and we'll all know how successful he is next season.

I hope you are right, but Coaches will often give praise to average players to pump up their confidence, and inspire them to do better.
Brooks seems to be low on confidence after the last few years, and probably needs all the help that Ivan can come up with.
I like Brooks, and think the club did very little to to fit him into first grade , in fact they made it incredibly hard by not having an experienced player with him for so long.
Finally getting a Coach like Cleary around to help him will help, but whether it proves to be enough, remains to be seen

 

[Nelson]

If Brooks doesn't stand up, I'm not sure who Cleary turns to. I'm happy that Benji will end his career here, but apart from nostalgia, he won't have much to offer I don't think.

He was good for the Broncos with limited opportunities last year. He's a very good backup half to have.

 

[Russell]

Yep,TT, you are correct but my optimism is partly based on Ivan's remarks late in the season that he rated Brooks quite highly and was more optimistic of the team's success with Brooks than without him. I don't have the exact quotes but that was how I took his meaning.

Whatever Cleary may think about Brooks, he's not silly enough to bake him in public.

He can't come out and say that he can't tackle to save his life, or that his short kicking game is on the nose. Clearys thoughts probably won't be seen until about round six next year.

Yes, GCT but he also didn't have to single him out for praise either but he still did. After doing that why would he then hold the views that he can't tackle etc. Cleary is the type of coach who, seeing weaknesses in a player's game would try to remedy those weaknesses, not harbour private negative thoughts.
Anyway, for now I'll go with Ivan's ability to teach and we'll all know how successful he is next season.

I hope you are right, but Coaches will often give praise to average players to pump up their confidence, and inspire them to do better.
Brooks seems to be low on confidence after the last few years, and probably needs all the help that Ivan can come up with.
I like Brooks, and think the club did very little to to fit him into first grade , in fact they made it incredibly hard by not having an experienced player with him for so long.
Finally getting a Coach like Cleary around to help him will help, but whether it proves to be enough, remains to be seen

It was enough for Nathan - don't think anyone would say no to him now.

Maybe under his tutelage he will turn out to be nearly or as good. I think he can.

 

[earl]

Someone(maybe 2) out of Suli, Fonua, Marsters won't make our 17
If naiqama does, he will be fighting for his spot every week
One of Twal, Sue, Grant, Eiso probably misses out
Benji is unlikely to make our run on side, maybe not the 17

How can we be worse than this year?? Our depth is infinitely better, and the strength of our recruitment has been to build a flat roster of 20 + first graders

Our depth is a lot better but the question is will our top team be a quality team. Our spine is also a weak point compared to most other spines in the comp.

Still we have a lot of players that could kick on and turn into players that can win us games.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

In other news, the Bulldogs released a video with Woods and Klemmer appealing to fans to renew memberships. Several people commented they would not be renewing due to Woods signing :laughing:

 

[old_man_tiger]

Someone(maybe 2) out of Suli, Fonua, Marsters won't make our 17
If naiqama does, he will be fighting for his spot every week
One of Twal, Sue, Grant, Eiso probably misses out
Benji is unlikely to make our run on side, maybe not the 17

How can we be worse than this year?? Our depth is infinitely better, and the strength of our recruitment has been to build a flat roster of 20 + first graders

Our depth is a lot better but the question is will our top team be a quality team. Our spine is also a weak point compared to most other spines in the comp.

Still we have a lot of players that could kick on and turn into players that can win us games.

All good points. But you are only as good as your worst player.

Re the spine, Our 1 and 6 were good but never played finals with a rep prop, and at one stage an SOO hooker. The question for me isn't whether their individual replacements play, but where the team finishes on the ladder.

 

[earl]

Someone(maybe 2) out of Suli, Fonua, Marsters won't make our 17
If naiqama does, he will be fighting for his spot every week
One of Twal, Sue, Grant, Eiso probably misses out
Benji is unlikely to make our run on side, maybe not the 17

How can we be worse than this year?? Our depth is infinitely better, and the strength of our recruitment has been to build a flat roster of 20 + first graders

Our depth is a lot better but the question is will our top team be a quality team. Our spine is also a weak point compared to most other spines in the comp.

Still we have a lot of players that could kick on and turn into players that can win us games.

All good points. But you are only as good as your worst player.

Re the spine, Our 1 and 6 were good but never played finals with a rep prop, and at one stage an SOO hooker. The question for me isn't whether their individual replacements play, but where the team finishes on the ladder.

All I care about is where we finish on the ladder. I just think that this season is really hard to pick in relation to how we are going to go.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Someone(maybe 2) out of Suli, Fonua, Marsters won't make our 17
If naiqama does, he will be fighting for his spot every week
One of Twal, Sue, Grant, Eiso probably misses out
Benji is unlikely to make our run on side, maybe not the 17

How can we be worse than this year?? Our depth is infinitely better, and the strength of our recruitment has been to build a flat roster of 20 + first graders

Our depth is a lot better but the question is will our top team be a quality team. Our spine is also a weak point compared to most other spines in the comp.

Still we have a lot of players that could kick on and turn into players that can win us games.

All good points. But you are only as good as your worst player.

Re the spine, Our 1 and 6 were good but never played finals with a rep prop, and at one stage an SOO hooker. The question for me isn't whether their individual replacements play, but where the team finishes on the ladder.

All I care about is where we finish on the ladder. I just think that this season is really hard to pick in relation to how we are going to go.

Agree. I'm optimistic now but it is a thin veneer.

 

[wonka]

Packer looks like crap couldn't even bust the Scottish defence.
Hope he is not another Blair type signing.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Whatever Cleary may think about Brooks, he's not silly enough to bake him in public.

He can't come out and say that he can't tackle to save his life, or that his short kicking game is on the nose. Clearys thoughts probably won't be seen until about round six next year.

Yes, GCT but he also didn't have to single him out for praise either but he still did. After doing that why would he then hold the views that he can't tackle etc. Cleary is the type of coach who, seeing weaknesses in a player's game would try to remedy those weaknesses, not harbour private negative thoughts.
Anyway, for now I'll go with Ivan's ability to teach and we'll all know how successful he is next season.

I hope you are right, but Coaches will often give praise to average players to pump up their confidence, and inspire them to do better.
Brooks seems to be low on confidence after the last few years, and probably needs all the help that Ivan can come up with.
I like Brooks, and think the club did very little to to fit him into first grade , in fact they made it incredibly hard by not having an experienced player with him for so long.
Finally getting a Coach like Cleary around to help him will help, but whether it proves to be enough, remains to be seen

It was enough for Nathan - don't think anyone would say no to him now.

Maybe under his tutelage he will turn out to be nearly or as good. I think he can.

Unfortunately good quality halves can't be popped out of a cookie cutter, what works with one player isn't guaranteed to work with another one.
Whether we think he can or not has no bearing on the results, there's been a lot of time wasted on Brooks, through no fault of his own.
He's got a long way to go, to get back to what he showed in his first game
And I don't don't think that there would be anyone who doesn't want him to suceed

 

[Munk]

Packer looks like crap couldn't even bust the Scottish defence.
Hope he is not another Blair type signing.

He has not had a great tournament so far. Hopefully tapering for the finals.

 

[swag_tiger]

Packer looks like crap couldn't even bust the Scottish defence.
Hope he is not another Blair type signing.

He has not had a great tournament so far. Hopefully tapering for the finals.

Packer made 173 meters with 15 carries and also scored a try i would be happy if he put in that kind of performance for the Tigers.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Packer looks like crap couldn't even bust the Scottish defence.
Hope he is not another Blair type signing.

He has not had a great tournament so far. Hopefully tapering for the finals.

Packer made 173 meters with 15 carries and also scored a try i would be happy if he put in that kind of performance for the Tigers.

All the better if he was making those twelve odd metres per run by not ambling arse first and finding his front as well.