Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape

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If we are stupid enough to buckle under the scrutiny of media pressure instead of staying on task then we deserve to be hung out to dry.
Newcastle have tried the paying to get the best of players who are at the backend of their careers and have scraped into the eight once and are still treading water making the same mistakes.
Making the eight won't make us successful. No one cares or remembers who makes the eight unless they win the competition.
I'm not sure who will see this through - but this first grade squad was never going to be the measure of our success when they simply are not good enough to compete against stronger clubs and teams.
 
@enmoretiger-0 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427391) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426888) said:
The junior development and pathways can continue without Maguire. We need a new coach who brings a new skillset to the Club.

Sorry this is wrong, when do we learn that continually changing coaches is counterproductive to us?
When has this worked?
Madge is the most successful coach since Tim, and since Tim how has the success gone?
Now is the time to tough it out and let the smarter heads keep control, junior pathways, center of excellence and develop the obvious young talent we have.
I am not interested in wining the first 5 games and falling away, I want a competitive side the whole year and I have suffered pain for years, a bit more will make the better results tatse that much better.

Our strategy in recruiting and developing juniors is great. Unfortunately Maguire is not the coach to drive the improvement we need.
 
So who are these so called future assistants that he keeps alluding too. He must have a name or two to keep saying that future assistants to potential head coaches are leaking stories?
 
@twentyforty said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427257) said:
@tigerwest said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427209) said:
@hsvjones said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427076) said:
@willow said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426867) said:
Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape, if club holds its nerve over Michael Maguire

After finally committing to a way out of a decade-long cycle of failure, Wests Tigers must fight calls that will send them spiralling back into the rugby league abyss, PAUL KENT writes.

Paul Kent
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom
JULY 26, 20215:20PM

The ammunition against Michael Maguire is overly simplistic, but effective.

It seems to be a campaign driven by out-of-work coaches and their future assistants happy to aggravate the job market.

Little attention is paid to what Maguire is doing to clean up the problem at Wests Tigers, which was always the business someone was going to have to do eventually and which was always going to come with some skin lost, no matter who it was.

And it had to come at some point.

For too long the coaches at Wests spent their salary cap with wild indifference to the problems they were creating; namely, caps can be stretched only so much before they burst.

Too many treated the cap like a Ponzi scheme. Buy now, leave the consequence for whomever comes next.

It happened in the interest of short-term job security.

Maguire arrived in town for the long haul, knowing the problems he was inheriting but, still, as he goes about his business out-of-work coaches and their future assistants, at the cost of a phone call, continue to agitate for change.

The subtext goes that only they can fix the problem, without full disclosure that Maguire has finally turned the club in the right direction.

The problem for too long was that the Tigers’ management was unsure itself what success looked like so, unwittingly, they listened to outside voices, wondering if there was a better way.

So they continued to treat the symptom, not the cause.

The knock on Maguire came again over the weekend.

Dale Finucane signed with Cronulla after the Tigers came in with an 11th hour offer Friday. It was portrayed in some quarters that Finucane knocked back the Tigers to sign with Cronulla because he did not want to play under Maguire at the Tigers.

This happened after Tevita Pangai signed with Canterbury last week despite a bigger offer from the Tigers because, it went again, Pangai did not want to play under Maguire.

If only it were that simple.

There was no four-year deal to the Tigers for Finucane.

The Tigers offered a two-year deal with the third season in their favour.

Their reasoning was simple. The Tigers were only just coming out of a cycle where long-term deals, all well above market value, crippled the club and there was no appetite to begin the cycle again, no matter how good Finucane might be.

The Tigers also quietly dropped off Pangai after running a couple of character checks on him, which uncovered the same reasons the Broncos were happy to release Pangai immediately but declined Melbourne’s request to release Xavier Coates immediately.

What is being refused to be recognised at Wests is the job the club is doing in regard to the salary cap, and finally getting in order, but also the drive to develop elite junior pathways which has for too long been ignored.

Recruitment is essential at every club, and all the very best clubs realise it.

Without good young players coming through clubs are forced to always go to market, and invariably must pay overs to recruit outside talent.

Wests have done this for far too long.

Development allows clubs to grow from within, and always offers several good years where young players are cheap at the price.

The Tigers dropped off their development many years ago when the club suffered a critical lack of nerve and the coaches, and here it probably began in the final years of Tim Sheens’ tenure, saw no choice but to coach for the immediate future to guarantee their job security.

So they kept going for the sugar hits, the quick fixes, and it came at the cost of long-term development.

All the good clubs realise now the benefit of strong, and honest, junior programs.

Penrith has long been regarded as the junior template, but it took five or six frustrating years to get this current squad in the shape it is in now, which can win a premiership.

Manly has got its pathways in order in recent years and is showing the benefits this season. The Sea Eagles were widely criticised when they scouted wide, recruiting Blacktown as its feeder club, but the emergence of a stack of young stars this season has shown the intelligence in that decision.

The Roosters often get criticised for failing to develop their own but this is an old stereotype, the Roosters having long taken over the Central Coast juniors and poured plenty of effort into them.

Their success came on the back of Boyd Cordner, Jake Friend, Latrell Mitchell, and many others, which continues today, being contracted at young ages so they could be coached in the Roosters way of football, through the important years of their development.

Then, when it was time for the icing, the Roosters signed James Tedesco and Cooper Cronk to finish off their list.

Melbourne began with a similar model all the way back in Craig Bellamy’s early years and now reap the annual benefits of maintaining discipline and control of their cap.

So much the Storm were comfortable to offer Finucane under market price, which was really more a symbolic gesture more than a genuine attempt to retain him, because the club was in control of its salary cap and already has somebody trained to replace him.

This has long been the Storm way, comfortable losing one at the top because they already have identified the next young one coming through.

Cameron Smith goes out, Harry Grant is ready to step in. Billy Slater retires, Ryan Papenhuyzen steps in.

It is the natural order until clubs bend their salary cap out of shape.

It is a lesson the Tigers are also finally disciplining themselves to adhere to, despite the outside noise.

**Already rivals have recognised the early shoots of development, which will only strengthen now the Tigers are exercising discipline, which will be stronger again next year.**

The way forward is north.

Well Well Well...
Colour me Pink and call me Mary..
That my friends is the best article I have read for a long time about the Tigers. Give credit to where credit is due as Kent has done some research and talking about where we are heading.
The best part is he can see what we are trying to do and not paying overs for quick fixes.
I love the last section as smart players will see the growth and want to join us.
If we can somehow finish the season off strong that will help with recruitment.

I wonder if he work mates at Fox or DT had a read of this article as the Dogs are doing the exact opposite to us and putting bandaids on... I also think this will help the fanbase as well as its been a rocky road lately and this is a boost to our morale.

Yep, the dogs are doing what we did 5 odd years ago, I hope their medical staff can keep them together?


With a slight difference. They’ve recruited speed in all those fullbacks and wingers.

But at big dollars, a player is only ever a tackle away from not playing for a while, if any thing happens they are stuck with no where to go. Like we have been.
 
@red-rugby said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426887) said:
I don't disagree with the article, I think its on point.

But didn't PK pile on yesterday (on MMM) when he had a rant at the Tigers for their recruiting strategy?

Interesting what a difference a day makes!

Maybe Lee had a chat?
 
@snake said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426964) said:
Just read in signings thread one of the good young players have jumped ship … the penny will drop soon !

Penrith lost or are losing Tyrone Peachey, Bryce Cartwright, Reagan Campbell-Gillard, Corey Harawira-Naera, Daine Laurie, Tyrell Fuimaono, Christian Crichton, Brent Naden and Matt Burton, plus others I've forgotten - all at one stage promising young players or better. You can't keep everyone, it just doesn't work that way. The trick is to have plenty coming through all the time and to identify and lock up the best ones.

Also, who do you even mean? Garner? As in, 25 year old fringe first grader Luke Garner? I'm not sure retaining or losing him is going to decide when the Tigers win their next premiership, do you?
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427476) said:
@enmoretiger-0 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427391) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426888) said:
The junior development and pathways can continue without Maguire. We need a new coach who brings a new skillset to the Club.

Sorry this is wrong, when do we learn that continually changing coaches is counterproductive to us?
When has this worked?
Madge is the most successful coach since Tim, and since Tim how has the success gone?
Now is the time to tough it out and let the smarter heads keep control, junior pathways, center of excellence and develop the obvious young talent we have.
I am not interested in wining the first 5 games and falling away, I want a competitive side the whole year and I have suffered pain for years, a bit more will make the better results tatse that much better.

Our strategy in recruiting and developing juniors is great. Unfortunately Maguire is not the coach to drive the improvement we need.


Madge is? unless you have that sweet, sweet proof of something to the contrary
 
@demps said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427319) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427266) said:
@twentyforty said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427257) said:
@tigerwest said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427209) said:
@hsvjones said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427076) said:
@willow said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426867) said:
Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape, if club holds its nerve over Michael Maguire

After finally committing to a way out of a decade-long cycle of failure, Wests Tigers must fight calls that will send them spiralling back into the rugby league abyss, PAUL KENT writes.

Paul Kent
News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom
JULY 26, 20215:20PM

The ammunition against Michael Maguire is overly simplistic, but effective.

It seems to be a campaign driven by out-of-work coaches and their future assistants happy to aggravate the job market.

Little attention is paid to what Maguire is doing to clean up the problem at Wests Tigers, which was always the business someone was going to have to do eventually and which was always going to come with some skin lost, no matter who it was.

And it had to come at some point.

For too long the coaches at Wests spent their salary cap with wild indifference to the problems they were creating; namely, caps can be stretched only so much before they burst.

Too many treated the cap like a Ponzi scheme. Buy now, leave the consequence for whomever comes next.

It happened in the interest of short-term job security.

Maguire arrived in town for the long haul, knowing the problems he was inheriting but, still, as he goes about his business out-of-work coaches and their future assistants, at the cost of a phone call, continue to agitate for change.

The subtext goes that only they can fix the problem, without full disclosure that Maguire has finally turned the club in the right direction.

The problem for too long was that the Tigers’ management was unsure itself what success looked like so, unwittingly, they listened to outside voices, wondering if there was a better way.

So they continued to treat the symptom, not the cause.

The knock on Maguire came again over the weekend.

Dale Finucane signed with Cronulla after the Tigers came in with an 11th hour offer Friday. It was portrayed in some quarters that Finucane knocked back the Tigers to sign with Cronulla because he did not want to play under Maguire at the Tigers.

This happened after Tevita Pangai signed with Canterbury last week despite a bigger offer from the Tigers because, it went again, Pangai did not want to play under Maguire.

If only it were that simple.

There was no four-year deal to the Tigers for Finucane.

The Tigers offered a two-year deal with the third season in their favour.

Their reasoning was simple. The Tigers were only just coming out of a cycle where long-term deals, all well above market value, crippled the club and there was no appetite to begin the cycle again, no matter how good Finucane might be.

The Tigers also quietly dropped off Pangai after running a couple of character checks on him, which uncovered the same reasons the Broncos were happy to release Pangai immediately but declined Melbourne’s request to release Xavier Coates immediately.

What is being refused to be recognised at Wests is the job the club is doing in regard to the salary cap, and finally getting in order, but also the drive to develop elite junior pathways which has for too long been ignored.

Recruitment is essential at every club, and all the very best clubs realise it.

Without good young players coming through clubs are forced to always go to market, and invariably must pay overs to recruit outside talent.

Wests have done this for far too long.

Development allows clubs to grow from within, and always offers several good years where young players are cheap at the price.

The Tigers dropped off their development many years ago when the club suffered a critical lack of nerve and the coaches, and here it probably began in the final years of Tim Sheens’ tenure, saw no choice but to coach for the immediate future to guarantee their job security.

So they kept going for the sugar hits, the quick fixes, and it came at the cost of long-term development.

All the good clubs realise now the benefit of strong, and honest, junior programs.

Penrith has long been regarded as the junior template, but it took five or six frustrating years to get this current squad in the shape it is in now, which can win a premiership.

Manly has got its pathways in order in recent years and is showing the benefits this season. The Sea Eagles were widely criticised when they scouted wide, recruiting Blacktown as its feeder club, but the emergence of a stack of young stars this season has shown the intelligence in that decision.

The Roosters often get criticised for failing to develop their own but this is an old stereotype, the Roosters having long taken over the Central Coast juniors and poured plenty of effort into them.

Their success came on the back of Boyd Cordner, Jake Friend, Latrell Mitchell, and many others, which continues today, being contracted at young ages so they could be coached in the Roosters way of football, through the important years of their development.

Then, when it was time for the icing, the Roosters signed James Tedesco and Cooper Cronk to finish off their list.

Melbourne began with a similar model all the way back in Craig Bellamy’s early years and now reap the annual benefits of maintaining discipline and control of their cap.

So much the Storm were comfortable to offer Finucane under market price, which was really more a symbolic gesture more than a genuine attempt to retain him, because the club was in control of its salary cap and already has somebody trained to replace him.

This has long been the Storm way, comfortable losing one at the top because they already have identified the next young one coming through.

Cameron Smith goes out, Harry Grant is ready to step in. Billy Slater retires, Ryan Papenhuyzen steps in.

It is the natural order until clubs bend their salary cap out of shape.

It is a lesson the Tigers are also finally disciplining themselves to adhere to, despite the outside noise.

**Already rivals have recognised the early shoots of development, which will only strengthen now the Tigers are exercising discipline, which will be stronger again next year.**

The way forward is north.

Well Well Well...
Colour me Pink and call me Mary..
That my friends is the best article I have read for a long time about the Tigers. Give credit to where credit is due as Kent has done some research and talking about where we are heading.
The best part is he can see what we are trying to do and not paying overs for quick fixes.
I love the last section as smart players will see the growth and want to join us.
If we can somehow finish the season off strong that will help with recruitment.

I wonder if he work mates at Fox or DT had a read of this article as the Dogs are doing the exact opposite to us and putting bandaids on... I also think this will help the fanbase as well as its been a rocky road lately and this is a boost to our morale.

Yep, the dogs are doing what we did 5 odd years ago, I hope their medical staff can keep them together?


With a slight difference. They’ve recruited speed in all those fullbacks and wingers.

And a gun young half, and TPJ and most likely Vaughan. Seems because we’ve made mistakes in the past we shouldn’t sign anyone ever again.

Gun half?

Burton got moved back to the centres because they think May is better.

Burton showed promise in his first few games at half and has been killing it.... at centre.

Since Cleary has been out for origin / injured... Burton has been rubbish in the halves.

Dogs have no decent hooker and I don't think Dufty is that good at 1... their spine for 2022 is average.

Penrith generally have looked significantly worse without Cleary. They’re like Newcastle with Johns - there’s a few guys in the backline who may struggle without Cleary feeding them. Time will tell if Burton is one of them.
 
@tigerboy said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427516) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427476) said:
@enmoretiger-0 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427391) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426888) said:
The junior development and pathways can continue without Maguire. We need a new coach who brings a new skillset to the Club.

Sorry this is wrong, when do we learn that continually changing coaches is counterproductive to us?
When has this worked?
Madge is the most successful coach since Tim, and since Tim how has the success gone?
Now is the time to tough it out and let the smarter heads keep control, junior pathways, center of excellence and develop the obvious young talent we have.
I am not interested in wining the first 5 games and falling away, I want a competitive side the whole year and I have suffered pain for years, a bit more will make the better results tatse that much better.

Our strategy in recruiting and developing juniors is great. Unfortunately Maguire is not the coach to drive the improvement we need.


Madge is? unless you have that sweet, sweet proof of something to the contrary

Proof is in our results, the lack of quality NRL recruits and of course our ever worsening defence. :astonished: :astonished:
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427520) said:
@tigerboy said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427516) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427476) said:
@enmoretiger-0 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427391) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426888) said:
The junior development and pathways can continue without Maguire. We need a new coach who brings a new skillset to the Club.

Sorry this is wrong, when do we learn that continually changing coaches is counterproductive to us?
When has this worked?
Madge is the most successful coach since Tim, and since Tim how has the success gone?
Now is the time to tough it out and let the smarter heads keep control, junior pathways, center of excellence and develop the obvious young talent we have.
I am not interested in wining the first 5 games and falling away, I want a competitive side the whole year and I have suffered pain for years, a bit more will make the better results tatse that much better.

Our strategy in recruiting and developing juniors is great. Unfortunately Maguire is not the coach to drive the improvement we need.


Madge is? unless you have that sweet, sweet proof of something to the contrary

Proof is in our results, the lack of quality NRL recruits and of course our ever worsening defence. :astonished: :astonished:

Few recruits haven’t worked out - that’s true...
 
We need to hold our nerve with Mage and this regime if we are to ever break this 15 year cycle of failure.
 
@spartan117 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427530) said:
We need to hold our nerve with Mage and this regime if we are to ever break this 15 year cycle of failure.


It’s back-against-the-wall for me, doubling down usually doesn’t help but what alternative is there ?
 
@spartan117 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427530) said:
We need to hold our nerve with Mage and this regime if we are to ever break this 15 year cycle of failure.

Why? We have a clear direction with juniors and pathways. This can be carried forward by Sheens and Hartigan. A new coach brings in new a skillset and a fresh approach which may attract quality players which Maguire cannot.
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427248) said:
@needaname said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426943) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426937) said:
@needaname said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426936) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426933) said:
@needaname said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426929) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426925) said:
@needaname said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426920) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426912) said:
@needaname said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426901) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1426888) said:
The junior development and pathways can continue without Maguire. We need a new coach who brings a new skillset to the Club.

Is that you giving Maguire credit for building in this area?

I have always been happy to acknowledge the good work done by the club in this area.

It doesn't take away from the fact our NRL team has gone backwards under Maguire. Or, that our defence is appalling and has not improved one iota under Maguire. We need a new coach with a new skillset to drive the club forward.

Well I want us to be a team that can be challenged for the title year on year out.
Ie Souths, Manly, Roosters, Storm, and In later years Parra, Raiders and Panthers.

If we have gone as far as you feel with Maguire do you personally feel with or without changes to our roster that we will displace one of the above by coaching personal only within the next 3 years?

Because if you don’t feel that’s possible there’s no point moving on the problem if the next coach can’t do it.

We all want our club to compete in the top 4. We differ on the way it should be gone about.

I believe our roster is better than performances suggest under Maguire. A new face with a different skillset, a new method of communication, better assistants and maybe just maybe a better profile to attract talent is what the club requires.

But your personal opinion is? Do we finish within the top 6 in the next 3 years, with a change of coach?

We will be at the back end of the field while Maguire is coaching WTs.

That is not answering the question!!!!

I've given my answer and views.

Great conversationalist you are….
Opinions are like…. Well we both have them, but they are just that.

And this is a forum! Supporters have views. Maguire has failed. It appears to me from the outside the Club is more concerned about perceived negative press in sacking Maguire than actually sacking him. Common Board find the resolve to do it.

I really don’t care. Sack him that’s fine. I’m used to decades of mediocre.
Just don’t get your hopes up expecting the birth of a new club any time soon.
I would love to see Ciraldo. One actually consider us and two improve us. It would be great to see but I don’t have the same faith as you that as soon as the ‘aggressor ’ is replaced with the SNAC (that’s sensitive new aged coach for those out of the loop) that all our problems are instantly resolved.
 
I wish we had a real dig to get Bellamy here.

It would have been the perfect time with good cap space.

If you would spend millions of dollars on anyone, anyone at all, it would be to bring in Craig Bellamy. Ok, there would be plenty on here saying that he would never come here, that he knocked us back once before - who cares? We should of made it plain that HE was our number one target.

But in all this fluff about backing our current coach we lost sight of the one possible signing that could have changed this club.

Alas, he signed with the Storm for another 5 years. Nuff said.
 
@moh said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427074) said:
Really do enjoy listening to Kent, even though
I don't always agree.

Loved them putting Rothfield in his place on 360 tonight.

He often slams Rothfield. The drunk is seriously out of his depth a lot of the time on that show.
 
@cqtiger said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427590) said:
I wish we had a real dig to get Bellamy here.

It would have been the perfect time with good cap space.

If you would spend millions of dollars on anyone, anyone at all, it would be to bring in Craig Bellamy. Ok, there would be plenty on here saying that he would never come here, that he knocked us back once before - who cares? We should of made it plain that HE was our number one target.

But in all this fluff about backing our current coach we lost sight of the one possible signing that could have changed this club.

Alas, he signed with the Storm for another 5 years. Nuff said.


why would he leave what he has set up - let alone to us
 
The big difference between Potter and Taylor and Cleary and Madge was that Cleary and Madge probably were aklways going to get a 2nd chance

Potter and taylor were never going to have that luxury

Potter and Taylor needed instant results so took chances with recruitment ......Ballin ,Idris ,Patterson ,Edwards etc etc etc
 
That was a really good article and yeah, continual changes in coaches has not gotten us anywhere, as well as forking out big dollars for aging players.
 
@jedi_tiger said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427213) said:
@curaeus said in [Paul Kent: Wests Tigers’ rebuild taking shape](/post/1427201) said:
Nice to read something kind of favourable about our club from one of the Toilet Paper's finest but very much at odds with the "Hire Flanagan, Sack Madge" garbage being peddled at the very same time by his rotund colleague Rothfield. Very odd indeed!

the DT is crap reporting against us pretty much all of the time but at least is has readership as nobody reads SMH or the Australian

Murdoch, defecates everywhere and anywhere for a $
 
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