Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[matty_tiepie]

Worst government ever and anyone that supports this dishonest Rabble are either to stubborn or to foolish to see it. julia is just a complete sell out and i have lost complete faith in this person. The bloody Greens have to much control and dont get me started on those dingbat independants. Please call an election now so we can start some damage Control.

 

[Yossarian]

Worst government ever and anyone that supports this dishonest Rabble are **either to stubborn or to foolish to see it**. julia is just a complete sell out and i have lost complete faith in this person. The bloody Greens have to much control and dont get me started on those dingbat independants. Please call an election now so we can start some damage Control.

Or perhaps they have a different outlook to you…

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I would happily vote for a Turnbull-led Coalition on the proviso they implement a revised Carbon Tax.

The ALP have done their dash. I don't necessarily ascribe to the diatribe that is spewed by the Opposition, but they have proven to be untrustworthy and as a result they will pay dearly.

The worst part is that while both slowly evolve into centrist parties, neither will fully get there.

I would vote for that too. At the moment, the whole parliament is a zoo!

Very interesting , my question to you guys is . If you went to an election and had to ( ultimately via preferences ) choose between Abbot led Libs or Gillard led labor , where does your vote go ?
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

I very rarely vote for the Libs or ALP, so it would ultimately rest with the most attractive (politically of course,) candidate and where their preferences go.

Out of the two, I'd have to say the Libs at the moment despite my hatred for Tony Abbott.

 

[matty_tiepie]

A Different outlook yos???? What outlook is that mate. the one where you can lie to get power or screw us all over with a carbon tax that does not do 1 thing for the planet. I REPEAT THAT NOT 1 THING FOR THE PLANET or the outlook that just opens our borders and lets in people smugglers and house them and pay for whatever they want. or wasting around 50 Billion dollars Onm a bloody NBN that we really dont need. I could go on and on but hey you just sit there with your head in the sand and watch this country go down the tubes. Mate we all have opinions but if you cant see that these fools are bowing to the greens at every turn and stuffing up just about every thing possible then we all have no hope. I used to vote labour but i am not as stubborn to just keep voting labour no matter what they do.

 

[Rambo2714]

A Different outlook yos???? What outlook is that mate. the one where you can lie to get power or screw us all over with a carbon tax that does not do 1 thing for the planet. I REPEAT THAT NOT 1 THING FOR THE PLANET or the outlook that just opens our borders and lets in people smugglers and house them and pay for whatever they want. or wasting around 50 Billion dollars Onm a bloody NBN that we really dont need. I could go on and on but hey you just sit there with your head in the sand and watch this country go down the tubes. Mate we all have opinions but if you cant see that these fools are bowing to the greens at every turn and stuffing up just about every thing possible then we all have no hope. I used to vote labour but i am not as stubborn to just keep voting labour no matter what they do.

Another disciple of the Jones and Hadlee school of propaganda.

Only alternative to this govt is Abbott , and you don't need to give Abbott the Job to learn that he would be by far the worst possible leader of a government .

Abbott would not have lasted a week in charge of a minority Govt .
Through no fault of her own , Gillard has endured the toughest ever prime minister ship in the history of this country , have you ever considered that ? does your appraisal of her performance factor the diversity of the group of MPs which her govt comprises ….
\
\
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

 

[Yossarian]

A Different outlook yos???? What outlook is that mate. the one where you can lie to get power or screw us all over with a carbon tax that does not do 1 thing for the planet. I REPEAT THAT NOT 1 THING FOR THE PLANET or the outlook that just opens our borders and lets in people smugglers and house them and pay for whatever they want. or wasting around 50 Billion dollars Onm a bloody NBN that we really dont need. I could go on and on but hey you just sit there with your head in the sand and watch this country go down the tubes. Mate we all have opinions but if you cant see that these fools are bowing to the greens at every turn and stuffing up just about every thing possible then we all have no hope. I used to vote labour but i am not as stubborn to just keep voting labour no matter what they do.

As I said, some people have different outlooks on life and what they think a government should be. You make it clear that you don't like the present government but you're presenting your opinions mate and not everyone shares them. Doesn't make them stupid or stubborn, just different. I've had plenty of debates with guys like Stryker, Hammertime and Happy Tiger - I can't agree on their viewpoint and I personally think they're wrong but they're not idiots or irrational. They just see the way things differently.

If you want to discuss these issues in a sensible way I'm always open to doing that but this "head in the sand" stuff does nothing to foster debate.

 

[AndTheKungFoSing]

A Different outlook yos???? What outlook is that mate. the one where you can lie to get power or screw us all over with a carbon tax that does not do 1 thing for the planet. I REPEAT THAT NOT 1 THING FOR THE PLANET or the outlook that just opens our borders and lets in people smugglers and house them and pay for whatever they want. or wasting around 50 Billion dollars Onm a bloody NBN that we really dont need. I could go on and on but hey you just sit there with your head in the sand and watch this country go down the tubes. Mate we all have opinions but if you cant see that these fools are bowing to the greens at every turn and stuffing up just about every thing possible then we all have no hope. I used to vote labour but i am not as stubborn to just keep voting labour no matter what they do.

The Carbon Tax is not meant to fix the problem, it’s a means of gathering the funding need and placing pressure and / or channels for schemes that will. I hate this argument, it’s just a way of twisting the argument in a particular way, just like when that muppet Bolt carries on about the difference it'll make to carbon levels… it’s redundant. Many countries are implementing Carbon Taxes too, don't feel so scared about it... you and the country will be fine with it in operation! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax

As for the NBN... I guarantee you won't see it as a waste of money in 5 - 8yrs time. The infrastructure is NOT just to make the internet faster! It’s just as much about opening the network and giving it greater bandwidth (allow more synchronise connections). Given the number of internet connected devices is set to grow by 10 in 2020, plus the fact IPTV along with MANY other services which will come into existence... The current networks CANNOT handle this growth! The fact you think we don't need a change or drastic update to this bit of Australian infrastructure is uninformed.

You voted for Labour? What party is that?

 

[Citizen_Tiger]

A Different outlook yos???? What outlook is that mate. the one where you can lie to get power or screw us all over with a carbon tax that does not do 1 thing for the planet. I REPEAT THAT NOT 1 THING FOR THE PLANET or the outlook that just opens our borders and lets in people smugglers and house them and pay for whatever they want. or wasting around 50 Billion dollars Onm a bloody NBN that we really dont need. I could go on and on but hey you just sit there with your head in the sand and watch this country go down the tubes. Mate we all have opinions but if you cant see that these fools are bowing to the greens at every turn and stuffing up just about every thing possible then we all have no hope. I used to vote labour but i am not as stubborn to just keep voting labour no matter what they do.

Another disciple of the Jones and Hadlee school of propaganda.

Only alternative to this govt is Abbott , and you don't need to give Abbott the Job to learn that he would be by far the worst possible leader of a government .

Abbott would not have lasted a week in charge of a minority Govt .
Through no fault of her own , Gillard has endured the toughest ever prime minister ship in the history of this country , have you ever considered that ? does your appraisal of her performance factor the diversity of the group of MPs which her govt comprises ….
\
\
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

Yeah you hear this kind of socialist rhetoric all the time, trouble is it's never accompanied by anything resembling coherent reasoning. 'Through no fault of her own….' is quite probably the most comedic phrase I've ever heard associated with Gillard. Cant wait for the election, it'll be like watching blokes paint the name of the Titanic on it's bow, long after the iceberg has struck :smiley:

 

[matty_tiepie]

Ok Fair enough but can you really sit there and tell me you are happy to let these boat people Come here illegally ahead of people trying to do it the right way and give them housing and medicare cards as well as some get free dental while we have our own homeless people crying out for help. Or are you happy with a PM that lied to get power and stuff what the people want. I know both parties will have problems from time to time when in Government but this lot takes the cake. if you are a greeny supporter then that explains your view but if not i just cant for the life of me understand how you could defend this mob at the moment. Everything they touch they ruin or just lie to cover it up. Yoss i am all for free speech and debate and if i came across as insulting then that was not my intention. I myself have voted labour most of my life ( i am 44 ) up until the last election as i could just not bring myself to vote for this lot and my fears have been Justified IMO and until they get rid of Julia and a few other Bits of dead wood they will never get my vote again. I cant vote for a party that will do whatever it takes to keep power regardless of how these bad decisions affect our people. And also other countries have Watered down any Carbon tax they were likely to implement so that old shonkey that other countries are doing this is just plain wrong. $23.00 per tonne i dont think so. The biggest polluters in India and so on are no where near this amount.

 

[Yossarian]

No worries Matty.

Australia is one of the largest per capita carbon polluters in the world but the carbon pricing scheme has other benefits outside of the actual global output of carbon. For one thing it will give us a competitive advantage when other countries come online. For another we're better off moving now than waiting for the inevitable.

It's not really a matter of it being a bad decision, it really comes down to whether you:

- Agree that climate change is an actual thing
- If so, you agree human activity causes it
- Think that something needs to be done

IMO the evidence is pretty clear on the first 2 being yes so it is really a matter of what, if anything, you think should be done about it. Personally I think we need to start taking action now and carbon pricing/taxing is a pretty sensible way of doing things. Right now it looks like things are going up but companies will exploit the financial benefits of doing things in a way that reduces carbon output. Those companies lessen their financial liabilities and increase their market share and at the same time overall carbon levels in this country start to go down.

 

[Rambo2714]

When i say no fault of her own , i am referring to the fact that she is leading a minority Govt , we voted the way we and did not give enough seats to any one side for them to form a majority Govt . That is not her fault .

Instead of having an obedient party voting how the party agrees to …..... to get anything done she has to appease the greens and the independents. Something which Abbot couldn't do in his wildest dreams. Its not her fault that it is this way.

 

[matty_tiepie]

the only reason that they got in was with green Prefrences. The liberal party polled many more votes than labour!!

 

[Yossarian]

the only reason that they got in was with green Prefrences. The liberal party polled many more votes than labour!!

That's a strawman's argument… It's a preferential voting system.

In any case if you want to be pedantic the ALP did poll more primary votes than the Liberal Party:

Labor - 4,711,363
Liberal - 3,777,383

Of course it is misleading because the total Coalition vote was higher but hey they're distinct parties too!

 

[genoshan]

Intersting side note. Did you know the 'Carbon Tax' is not actually a tax, it is a carbon charge. The reason being, you cannot tax a tax. Hence the Carbon Charge is subjuect to GST…

Tell me this is fair ?

 

[Yossarian]

Intersting side note. Did you know the 'Carbon Tax' is not actually a tax, it is a carbon charge. The reason being, you cannot tax a tax. Hence the Carbon Charge is subjuect to GST…

Tell me this is fair ?

Same as the fuel excise I guess…

 

[genoshan]

I just finished a teleconference within my company, we have had discussions with our energy suppliers who have told us to allow for a total of 15 % cost increase for electricity. So guess what, we pass these charges on to all our tenants ( shopping centre ) so they in turn will look at increasing their costs by 15 % to cover the extra charges.

The loser in all this … Consumers. The winners, the government get a lot more revenue.

I hope I read too much into this, but it is how it is looking.

 

[Yossarian]

I just finished a teleconference within my company, we have had discussions with our energy suppliers who have told us to allow for a total of 15 % cost increase for electricity. So guess what, we pass these charges on to all our tenants ( shopping centre ) so they in turn will look at increasing their costs by 15 % to cover the extra charges.

The loser in all this … Consumers. The winners, the government get a lot more revenue.

I hope I read too much into this, but it is how it is looking.

The government actually stands to gain very little from the carbon pricing/tax. Almost every dollar it is bringing in is going back out to fund compensation for low income earners and non-carbon energy initiatives.

 

[genoshan]

I just finished a teleconference within my company, we have had discussions with our energy suppliers who have told us to allow for a total of 15 % cost increase for electricity. So guess what, we pass these charges on to all our tenants ( shopping centre ) so they in turn will look at increasing their costs by 15 % to cover the extra charges.

The loser in all this … Consumers. The winners, the government get a lot more revenue.

I hope I read too much into this, but it is how it is looking.

The government actually stands to gain very little from the carbon pricing/tax. Almost every dollar it is bringing in is going back out to fund compensation for low income earners and non-carbon energy initiatives.

So the government gains 10 % as GST. That will be substantial enough.

So the non low income earner gets slugged again, while the people who choose not to work get subsidised ? Glad I voted for the party that wouldnt have a carbon charge while they were in power.

Never have I felt I would consider voting Liberal, but if an election was held right now, i think i might. This is the worst government in power in my memory.

 

[Yossarian]

I just finished a teleconference within my company, we have had discussions with our energy suppliers who have told us to allow for a total of 15 % cost increase for electricity. So guess what, we pass these charges on to all our tenants ( shopping centre ) so they in turn will look at increasing their costs by 15 % to cover the extra charges.

The loser in all this … Consumers. The winners, the government get a lot more revenue.

I hope I read too much into this, but it is how it is looking.

The government actually stands to gain very little from the carbon pricing/tax. Almost every dollar it is bringing in is going back out to fund compensation for low income earners and non-carbon energy initiatives.

So the government gains 10 % as GST. That will be substantial enough.

So the non low income earner gets slugged again, while the people who choose not to work get subsidised ? Glad I voted for the party that wouldnt have a carbon charge while they were in power.

Never have I felt I would consider voting Liberal, but if an election was held right now, i think i might. This is the worst government in power in my memory.

Well the low income people also includes pensioners and low income earning workers. Not many of them choose not to work unless their too old. I'd assume if you don't qualify for some support you get squat.

I'm not sure if the 10% GST is included in the income for redistribution. It's what $2.30 per tonne compared to the actual carbon price of $23? Anyway it would seem most of it is GST exempt anyway unlike say the fuel excise.

http://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au/tax-treatment/

GST treatment of units
The Government is committed to minimising compliance costs for taxpayers by making eligible emissions units under the carbon price GST-free. This will allow transactions of units via an open exchange to operate without reference to GST rules and on a uniform market price. This approach is consistent with the recommendations of the Australia’s Future Tax System Review. The GST-free treatment of units is however subject to the agreement of the States and Territories as it involves a change to the GST base. For this reason, the commencement of the GST-free treatment of units is contingent on an announcement by the Treasurer in the Gazette that the agreement of all States and Territories has been obtained. The normal GST rules will apply until such time as this occurs. Under the normal GST rules, GST would be payable on purchases of units with offsetting input tax credits available to business purchasers. No GST would apply to imported or exported units.

Normal GST rules will continue to apply to transactions involving financial derivatives of units and payments of grants. The application of the GST rules to financial derivatives of units and the payment of grants do not give rise to the same compliance issues that arise in the application of the normal GST rules to units.

 

[Rambo2714]

I just finished a teleconference within my company, we have had discussions with our energy suppliers who have told us to allow for a total of 15 % cost increase for electricity. So guess what, we pass these charges on to all our tenants ( shopping centre ) so they in turn will look at increasing their costs by 15 % to cover the extra charges.

The loser in all this … Consumers. The winners, the government get a lot more revenue.

I hope I read too much into this, but it is how it is looking.

Extra 15% of energy , translates to not very much increase in the cost of a birthday cake
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_