Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Blake93]

That's not even remotely true.

The comments about his personality were separate.

I honestly believe he is incompetent, hence why I don't understand how he's gotten so far in politics.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[hammertime]

That's not even remotely true.

The comments about his personality were separate.

I honestly believe he is incompetent, hence why I don't understand how he's gotten so far in politics.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

The alternative has killed people with rushed policy and you think the bloke who was a successful senior cabinet minister for a decade is incompetent?

 

[hammertime]

Excellent. I'm looking forward to the decimation of an already underfunded health system.

It certainly needs to be as efficient as possible CB. We are facing an exponential cost curve over the coming years with the boomers.

.. but anyway, I haven't heard Abbott say anything about cutting Health?

I really wish the tonne of stimulus hadn't been wasted but rather equipped the hospitals around the nation with the advanced technologies we need to make them as efficient as possible for our burgeoning older generation.

 

[dazza65]

That's not even remotely true.**

The comments about his personality were separate.

I honestly believe he is incompetent, hence why I don't understand how he's gotten so far in politics.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Really? Well I base my comments on working for over 30 years in some of the biggest multinationals and conglomerates here and around the world. I have met and seen first hand both Abbott and Rudd and let me tell you, Abbott is by far from incompetent.

The sooner people realise, that unlike the USA which is a republic, we do not vote for Abbott or Rudd, we vote for a Party.

Surely this basic truth has become more than evident during the whole Gillard/Rudd debacle. There is never any guarantees on who will lead a party - after this election who knows if Rudd/Abbott will still be in charge - it is on the whim of the party machine, not popular vote.

Look at the party, look at the major players within the party , look at who really pulls the strings behind the party (unions, business etc) and then make an educated decision about how you want the country to be run. For example, whether the mouth piece is for or against things like gay marriage is of no consequence. Personally, let gays marry if they wish to have the same miseries in life as us straights (LOL) however, although for gays and others it may be, it isn't in the top 10 most important issues on how to manage a country for prosperity for ALL of its constituents.

Make educated fully informed decisions about how you want the country governed, don't listen to shock jocks, media, guys in the pub or the "my grandfather voted XXX and my father voted xxx so I vote xxx" rubbish - you are doing yourself and the country a disservice.

 

[dazza65]

Excellent. I'm looking forward to the decimation of an already underfunded health system.

It certainly needs to be as efficient as possible CB. We are facing an exponential cost curve over the coming years with the boomers.

.. but anyway, I haven't heard Abbott say anything about cutting Health?

I really wish the tonne of stimulus hadn't been wasted but rather equipped the hospitals around the nation with the advanced technologies we need to make them as efficient as possible for our burgeoning older generation.

Exactly, i work in healthcare and not once has anything of the like come up - only fear mongering by the usual suspects (Nurses Unions etc)

What could have happened for the health system if they would have done exactly that - put the huge surplus they inherited into that, rather than buying votes and playing the popularity game and letting everyone buy a flat screen TV FFS.

 

[wtigers]

Don't pull that "marriage equality isn't that important" bs. Yknow what a lack of marriage equality is linked to? Homophobia. Yknow what homophobia can do? Push LGBTQIA youth into depression, and lead to suicide. It's about the bigger picture in terms of treating an already underrepresented and discriminated group with respect. Marriage equality may not seem important to you, but it is the LGBTQIA movement, because its the first step in a long path towards equality, and if the government is unwilling to take that step it just alienates the group and leaves them in the dirt.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[system]

Personally for mine this incarnation of the Coalition is the tip of a very nasty sword being the fundamentalist christian right movement.

Abbott's ministerial hold on RU486 against the expressed wishes of the public majority while health minister on personal religious grounds is enough to make me wary.

Why oh why couldn't the coalition run a platform and candidate worthy of my vote?

 

[hammertime]

Don't pull that "marriage equality isn't that important" bs. Yknow what a lack of marriage equality is linked to? Homophobia. Yknow what homophobia can do? Push LGBTQIA youth into depression, and lead to suicide. It's about the bigger picture in terms of treating an already underrepresented and discriminated group with respect. Marriage equality may not seem important to you, but it is the LGBTQIA movement, because its the first step in a long path towards equality, and if the government is unwilling to take that step it just alienates the group and leaves them in the dirt.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Ok, but do you really think Rudd believes in it? It seemed to only come out as a policy when he was lagging in the polls.

 

[dazza65]

Don't pull that "marriage equality isn't that important" bs. Yknow what a lack of marriage equality is linked to? Homophobia. Yknow what homophobia can do? Push LGBTQIA youth into depression, and lead to suicide. It's about the bigger picture in terms of treating an already underrepresented and discriminated group with respect. Marriage equality may not seem important to you, but it is the LGBTQIA movement, because its the first step in a long path towards equality, and if the government is unwilling to take that step it just alienates the group and leaves them in the dirt.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Dont disagree with your statement, I personally believe in equality for all. However, we need to be careful what issues are elevated above others. If, for arguments sake, the Greens made Gay Marriage their number one priority and as such gained control of the parliament (unlikely as the 3 or 4% LGBTI in Australia and other sympathetic voters) wouldn't be enough but anyway, lets suppose. Then we are also stuck with the wide range of other disastrous policies the green would introduce.
Why is it that in the past both the ALP and LNP hasn't voice support - it is because rightly or wrongly there isn't enough of a groundswell of support for it. If there was, boy look how quickly they would jump on it.

The best option is to keep the social groundswell and it will happen as it has on NZ and elsewhere.

 

[Yossarian]

Excellent. I'm looking forward to the decimation of an already underfunded health system.

It certainly needs to be as efficient as possible CB. We are facing an exponential cost curve over the coming years with the boomers.

.. but anyway, I haven't heard Abbott say anything about cutting Health?

I really wish the tonne of stimulus hadn't been wasted but rather equipped the hospitals around the nation with the advanced technologies we need to make them as efficient as possible for our burgeoning older generation.

Exactly, i work in healthcare and not once has anything of the like come up - only fear mongering by the usual suspects (Nurses Unions etc)

What could have happened for the health system if they would have done exactly that - put the huge surplus they inherited into that, rather than buying votes and playing the popularity game and letting everyone buy a flat screen TV FFS.

The stimulus package was a response to the GFC. Without "letting everyone buy a flat screen TV" the backside would have fallen out of the economy. Even Sloppy Joe can't bring himself to criticise the concept of stimulus and the results (i.e. the performance of the Australian economy since the GFC compared to other western economies) indicate it was highly successful.

If you want to talk about wasting huge surpluses on buying votes maybe you should be more concerned with the Howard/Costello tax cuts or Tony's $75k for millionaires to push out children.

 

[dazza65]

Don't pull that "marriage equality isn't that important" bs. Yknow what a lack of marriage equality is linked to? Homophobia. Yknow what homophobia can do? Push LGBTQIA youth into depression, and lead to suicide. It's about the bigger picture in terms of treating an already underrepresented and discriminated group with respect. Marriage equality may not seem important to you, but it is the LGBTQIA movement, because its the first step in a long path towards equality, and if the government is unwilling to take that step it just alienates the group and leaves them in the dirt.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Ok, but do you really think Rudd believes in it? It seemed to only come out as a policy when he was lagging in the polls.

AND this ^^^^^^

 

[hammertime]

Personally for mine this incarnation of the Coalition is the tip of a very nasty sword being the fundamentalist christian right movement.

Abbott's ministerial hold on RU486 against the expressed wishes of the public majority while health minister on personal religious grounds is enough to make me wary.

Why oh why couldn't the coalition run a platform and candidate worthy of my vote?

Abbot has come out about Abortion a few times and said he wants it to be Legal, Safe and Rare. So, if he goes back on that you might have an argument… but I can't see anything wrong with what he has said.

... and it's a party in power. Not 1 man. I certainly know who has the better team.

 

[dazza65]

Excellent. I'm looking forward to the decimation of an already underfunded health system.

It certainly needs to be as efficient as possible CB. We are facing an exponential cost curve over the coming years with the boomers.

.. but anyway, I haven't heard Abbott say anything about cutting Health?

I really wish the tonne of stimulus hadn't been wasted but rather equipped the hospitals around the nation with the advanced technologies we need to make them as efficient as possible for our burgeoning older generation.

Exactly, i work in healthcare and not once has anything of the like come up - only fear mongering by the usual suspects (Nurses Unions etc)

What could have happened for the health system if they would have done exactly that - put the huge surplus they inherited into that, rather than buying votes and playing the popularity game and letting everyone buy a flat screen TV FFS.

The stimulus package was a response to the GFC. Without "letting everyone buy a flat screen TV" the backside would have fallen out of the economy. Even Sloppy Joe can't bring himself to criticise the concept of stimulus and the results (i.e. the performance of the Australian economy since the GFC compared to other western economies) indicate it was highly successful.

If you want to talk about wasting huge surpluses on buying votes maybe you should be more concerned with the Howard/Costello tax cuts or Tony's $75k for millionaires to push out children.

Give me a break - one of the biggest myths in history that the stimulus package of asian manufactured flat screen TV's kept the economy afloat. Talk to a genuine real economist.

 

[Yossarian]

Give me a break - one of the biggest myths in history that the stimulus package of asian manufactured flat screen TV's kept the economy afloat. Talk to a genuine real economist.

Who do you suggest? One who understands that retail expenditure benefits the economy even if the goods are made overseas? Give me a break indeeed. Try reading Michael Pascoe's piece in the Fairfax press today.

 

[Yossarian]

Don't pull that "marriage equality isn't that important" bs. Yknow what a lack of marriage equality is linked to? Homophobia. Yknow what homophobia can do? Push LGBTQIA youth into depression, and lead to suicide. It's about the bigger picture in terms of treating an already underrepresented and discriminated group with respect. Marriage equality may not seem important to you, but it is the LGBTQIA movement, because its the first step in a long path towards equality, and if the government is unwilling to take that step it just alienates the group and leaves them in the dirt.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Ok, but do you really think Rudd believes in it? It seemed to only come out as a policy when he was lagging in the polls.

AND this ^^^^^^

Which is demonstratably incorrect. As the PM said on QANDA he published his thoughts on the matter some time before he became PM again.

 

[system]

It is a party block in power and I personally know some of the guys pulling the strings in the caucus room under Abbott and it is why I used the tip of the sword reference.

Overall this election has been a race to the bottom. Based on jingoism and simple slogans over debate. Somewhere compassion has been replaced by the individuals will to be selfish.

The only reason I want Rudd to come out on top is so that the coalition abandons this religious right swing and goes back to the economic conservatism and social non interference.

 

[hammertime]

The stimulus package was a response to the GFC. Without "letting everyone buy a flat screen TV" the backside would have fallen out of the economy. Even Sloppy Joe can't bring himself to criticise the concept of stimulus and the results (i.e. the performance of the Australian economy since the GFC compared to other western economies) indicate it was highly successful.

If you want to talk about wasting huge surpluses on buying votes maybe you should be more concerned with the Howard/Costello tax cuts or Tony's $75k for millionaires to push out children.

I agree yoss, we needed a stimulus. But we could have been far smarter with the short, medium and long term projects to minimise boomer burdens. It's not the action itself, but the structure.

How about Hospital equipment revamps (with a foxus on Aussie made) rather than School Halls, Celing Batts and cutting the handouts? or a greater focus on some major transport projects to help those same pensioners get around in the future?

… and really? You are towing the line of the class warfare? So you think it's not fair for the people who pay the majority of tax to get a little back to help have a family? but it's fair to give their hard earned money to everyone else who maybe didn't put in years of effort at school? We need to promote sucess in this country and stop it with the tall poppy rubbish.

 

[Blake93]

That's not even remotely true.**

The comments about his personality were separate.

I honestly believe he is incompetent, hence why I don't understand how he's gotten so far in politics.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Really? Well I base my comments on working for over 30 years in some of the biggest multinationals and conglomerates here and around the world. I have met and seen first hand both Abbott and Rudd and let me tell you, Abbott is by far from incompetent.

The sooner people realise, that unlike the USA which is a republic, we do not vote for Abbott or Rudd, we vote for a Party.

Surely this basic truth has become more than evident during the whole Gillard/Rudd debacle. There is never any guarantees on who will lead a party - after this election who knows if Rudd/Abbott will still be in charge - it is on the whim of the party machine, not popular vote.

Look at the party, look at the major players within the party , look at who really pulls the strings behind the party (unions, business etc) and then make an educated decision about how you want the country to be run. For example, whether the mouth piece is for or against things like gay marriage is of no consequence. Personally, let gays marry if they wish to have the same miseries in life as us straights (LOL) however, although for gays and others it may be, it isn't in the top 10 most important issues on how to manage a country for prosperity for ALL of its constituents.

Make educated fully informed decisions about how you want the country governed, don't listen to shock jocks, media, guys in the pub or the "my grandfather voted XXX and my father voted xxx so I vote xxx" rubbish - you are doing yourself and the country a disservice.

I'm voting labor as my views are more in line with their policies, not because I don't want to vote for Abbott. I understand that we vote for the party, it just helps make my decision easier when I fear for the future of our country under Abbott

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[dazza65]

Give me a break - one of the biggest myths in history that the stimulus package of asian manufactured flat screen TV's kept the economy afloat. Talk to a genuine real economist.

Who do you suggest? One who understands that retail expenditure benefits the economy even if the goods are made overseas? Give me a break indeeed. Try reading Michael Pascoe's piece in the Fairfax press today.

OK - EXPENDITURE benefits the economy and there are many ways to employ this. Both increased public spending and
good governance can improve growth outcomes. There is also evidence of an interaction between government expenditure and governance which suggests that countries with good governance make more effective use of public expenditure Similarly there is evidence of an interaction between good governance and credit suggesting that good
governance is a pre-condition for growth enhancing finance and/or vice versa. Human capital is also found to significantly and positively affect economic growth. All of this means that it isn't just necessarily about SPENDING that provides the positive outcomes, it is how it is managed during and after and in my humble opinion, there were many many things that contributed to Oz's standing during this time and if the surplus had been managed more scientifically and with longer term views in mind rather than just a popularity grab we would have been better off over the longer term. Like the post above - much better ways a good government could have spend the money for an equal or better outcome.

And yes, lets remove the incentive for people to strive to get ahead by increasing taxes for the wealthier, increase small business taxes (small business by the way is a HUGE employer - or it was) and minimise other potential benefits advantages like CGT and FBT. Lets just all give up and go on welfare….oh thats right, its not the governments money......its ours!

But hey, just my informed opinion, i realise not everyone gets it.

 

[wtigers]

Don't pull that "marriage equality isn't that important" bs. Yknow what a lack of marriage equality is linked to? Homophobia. Yknow what homophobia can do? Push LGBTQIA youth into depression, and lead to suicide. It's about the bigger picture in terms of treating an already underrepresented and discriminated group with respect. Marriage equality may not seem important to you, but it is the LGBTQIA movement, because its the first step in a long path towards equality, and if the government is unwilling to take that step it just alienates the group and leaves them in the dirt.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Ok, but do you really think Rudd believes in it? It seemed to only come out as a policy when he was lagging in the polls.

That's irrelevant. He's supporting it now and that's what matters. Whether or not he personally believes in it doesn't matter it's the fact that he's said he'll do it

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_