Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here
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happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Cultured Bogan said:
cb I bet Juliar wish she could take those words back if they had not flipped on so many other issues she would be flipping on this . And it is still early days yet Some other softener will show up where it will change again
@happy tiger said:
She should have just called it a non-core promise…
happy_tiger
Well-known member
She should have just called it a non-core promise…
I can give her a core promise No vote from Happy
I can give her a core promise No vote from Happy
To be honest Gillard needs to put her money where her mouth is and either disclose the average cost increase to the taxpayer and/or family unit and put it to a referendum or take it to an election. It is such a large issue and can have such a large impact on the economy that the electorate should really be consulted on it and have a say whether it should be implemented or not.
Problem with this country is that a large portion of the populace is politically apathetic. The majority of my mates are quite smart people but they alarm me when they talk about politics. One of them is a die hard Tigers supporter so he was casting his vote based on the fact that O'Farrell is a Tigers supporter. Nevermind the fact that there may be job cuts in certain public services that will actually affect his employment.
Some others vote Labor/Liberal/Greens/Shooters/whomever simply because they always have, without actually knowing or caring what they stand for… Others let the Federal issues cloud their judgement... I actually heard someone at the polling station on Saturday say "I voted Liberal because they'll turn the boats back." Ordinarily I would have laughed, but it worried me more than anything.
Problem with this country is that a large portion of the populace is politically apathetic. The majority of my mates are quite smart people but they alarm me when they talk about politics. One of them is a die hard Tigers supporter so he was casting his vote based on the fact that O'Farrell is a Tigers supporter. Nevermind the fact that there may be job cuts in certain public services that will actually affect his employment.
Some others vote Labor/Liberal/Greens/Shooters/whomever simply because they always have, without actually knowing or caring what they stand for… Others let the Federal issues cloud their judgement... I actually heard someone at the polling station on Saturday say "I voted Liberal because they'll turn the boats back." Ordinarily I would have laughed, but it worried me more than anything.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Cultured Bogan said:
My biggest issue with pollies at the moment is they seem to have no perception that most of us are in uncomfortable financial situations with the price of everything rising dramatically . I view myself lucky as my house cost less than $200000 and we are at lower end of middle class earnings wise imo . You poor buggers down south that would be flat out getting a property for less than 2.5 times than we paid for ours .When they add extra taxes or let private insuarnce increase charges more than CPI is . I get the feeling sometimes that everyone is in bed with everyone else and too bad if you can't afford it.
Surprisingly HT, it appears to be coming down in some areas in Sydney.
I used to live in Glenmore Park with my folks, before I moved out to move in with my girlfriend in central Penriff and it's an area that is well known for having rather expensive homes.
They've released a new section of land there and you could feasibly pick up a brand new home (assuming its a 4 bedder single storey home) on a 650m2 block for just over $300K which isn't unreasonable when you consider alot of the other well looked after good size established homes in Penriff are going for alot more than that.
My parents live just around the corner from that new release and they would command just on $550K for their home which is a large 4 bedroom home with about the same size block.
Of course the pollies have no perception of it. They sit in parliament on $100K odd a year, with a guaranteed pension which they can work on top of and a ridiculous rate of superannuation. Not to mention the travel and other perks they get. They pay for bugger all and wouldn't have any idea what its like for a two-parent working family with a couple of kids to etch out a living on an income of less than $100K a year between them.
I used to live in Glenmore Park with my folks, before I moved out to move in with my girlfriend in central Penriff and it's an area that is well known for having rather expensive homes.
They've released a new section of land there and you could feasibly pick up a brand new home (assuming its a 4 bedder single storey home) on a 650m2 block for just over $300K which isn't unreasonable when you consider alot of the other well looked after good size established homes in Penriff are going for alot more than that.
My parents live just around the corner from that new release and they would command just on $550K for their home which is a large 4 bedroom home with about the same size block.
Of course the pollies have no perception of it. They sit in parliament on $100K odd a year, with a guaranteed pension which they can work on top of and a ridiculous rate of superannuation. Not to mention the travel and other perks they get. They pay for bugger all and wouldn't have any idea what its like for a two-parent working family with a couple of kids to etch out a living on an income of less than $100K a year between them.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Cultured Bogan said:
Pretty good price for a new home 4 bedder . Our 4 bedder(15yrs old) here would now fetch 400k pretty easily and the new LNG plant has not even started yet
hammertime
Well-known member
@happy tiger said:
despite some decreases, it is getting tougher for the average Aussie. I think part of it has to do rising costs, but also our level of expectations of purchasing power. We have just come out of a pretty prosperous era and I think we can't keep consuming at the same rate. We especially can't continue to get handouts and keep raising middle class welfare with the level of debt around the world.
That aside, I did people's parliament the other day with the Daily Tele. One of my favorite suggestions to ease living pressures was high speed rail. If you can spread out Sydney by making Newcastle and Woolongong reachable in 30-45 minutes, housing prices and mortgages would ease up from creating a much larger land supply for Sydney. I really hope Barry looks at options like that around transport. The more transport hubs we can create, the more housing supply it will generate. Create the services and developers will come.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
Needs to happen in most major cities . Brisbane in particular . I agree with your statement that we choose to live beyond our means . But someone has to explain to me why prices have to increase on things higher than CPI increases . When my salary review is done i will get between 3-4% of salary Electricity went up 14% , private medical went up 6% (and get less coverage) water went up 150% ,fuel at about 7%,rates at 5% it goes on and on and on . Can't the imbeciles at state and federal level see that with everyone .
There's a difference between living beyond your means and falling behind though Hammer…
I'm sure there are people out there who eat out three times a week, buy top line televisions once every couple of years and have expensive hobbies and complain that they can't maintain that they shouldn't have to adjust their lifestyle in order to absorb some increase in costs, but there are people out there who don't have the same earning power who don't live in a lap of luxury and exorbitant increases in day to day living now eat into what little they would have been able to put into savings before.
People who fit into the first category need to have a long hard look at themselves and put the plastic away and start tipping all that cash into savings. It's the people who fall into the second category I truly feel for as some of those people are friends & family who don't go out and spend money and save in order to keep ahead and now the rising cost of living is now overtaking the rate at which they can save. You shouldn't need to go to the bank cap-in-hand to pay the rent or the power bill!
My girlfriend and I both earn very well and some of our friends are amazed when we tell them we have just about paid off a $8K trip to Europe in six months, pay off our cars and still save at a good rate for our first home. If you came to my place you would see I don't own a Plasma/LCD television, the only time I get CD's, games for the xBox360 or DVD's is for birthdays or Christmas, I don't have air conditioning (despite being in the refrigeration and A/C field,) my laptop is five years old and the only "home luxury" I have is Foxtel in order to support my passion which is sports, particularly League, Cricket and Football.
You're defined by what you spend. Those who have it well off and still complain have no idea.
I'm sure there are people out there who eat out three times a week, buy top line televisions once every couple of years and have expensive hobbies and complain that they can't maintain that they shouldn't have to adjust their lifestyle in order to absorb some increase in costs, but there are people out there who don't have the same earning power who don't live in a lap of luxury and exorbitant increases in day to day living now eat into what little they would have been able to put into savings before.
People who fit into the first category need to have a long hard look at themselves and put the plastic away and start tipping all that cash into savings. It's the people who fall into the second category I truly feel for as some of those people are friends & family who don't go out and spend money and save in order to keep ahead and now the rising cost of living is now overtaking the rate at which they can save. You shouldn't need to go to the bank cap-in-hand to pay the rent or the power bill!
My girlfriend and I both earn very well and some of our friends are amazed when we tell them we have just about paid off a $8K trip to Europe in six months, pay off our cars and still save at a good rate for our first home. If you came to my place you would see I don't own a Plasma/LCD television, the only time I get CD's, games for the xBox360 or DVD's is for birthdays or Christmas, I don't have air conditioning (despite being in the refrigeration and A/C field,) my laptop is five years old and the only "home luxury" I have is Foxtel in order to support my passion which is sports, particularly League, Cricket and Football.
You're defined by what you spend. Those who have it well off and still complain have no idea.
@happy tiger said:
I can give her a core promise No vote from Happy
I'm sure she'll be upset to hear she lost a vote she never had to begin with…
@hammertime said:
If Barry builds a high speed rail to Newcastle I'd consider voting for him. They are prohibitively expensive to build. I agree the pay-offs would almost certainly be worth it in the long run especially as it makes Newcastle airport more viable.
FO'B makes some good noises on transport but also shows a lack of understanding of the network that is either naive or disingenuous. To promises a whole heap of new services from the Central Coast is all well and good but water will only go through a funnel at the same rate no matter how much water you pour in. In this case the funnel is obviously the SHB which is already close to capacity.
Oddly enough, I think both sides broadly agree on what needs to happen, they just have a different prioritisation of what needs to be done in what order.
hammertime
Well-known member
@Cultured Bogan said:
Well said CB. You sound like you are great with your savings. Much better than me. I wish all Aussies had the same mentality as yourself, but sadly they don't.
I agree that there are people do it tough while living within their means. That's always been the way. My pop used to go out and catch rabbits for his dinner, line up with food stamps, work 2 jobs (if they could find it) and I think your grandparents would have done the same. So there's doing it tough, and doing it TOUGH.
Our generations have no idea what that means. Our unemployment rates are still low, there is considerable social support, welfare and services.
We need to help the little guy, but we really aren't doing it tough yet compared to years gone by. Yes, there will still be the rich w@nkers who complain when they have to sacrifice golf memberships, but I think the whinging is systemic in the broader population.
We had several large spending policies over the past few decades. I suppose my issues are always if the people encouraging the government to spend on fruitless projects are the same people who cry poor when they are asked to take on higher costs to pay back debt or can't get the support they need when they need it.
That isn't you or me specifically, but that's how we have all acted as Australians.
The fact is, if the government had a surplus now, we would be able to support these rising costs, but we are in debt with a lot of back infrastructure building to do to try to ease some of those presures.
With substantial inter-generational budgetary pressures about to hit, this may be an era where we have to take our medicine.
@hammertime said:
You've hit it on the head. Collectively, we've been irresponsible. We are voting in govenrments who are promising the world, and we are putting little thought into how they will pay for it all at the time we drop our vote into the box. I suppose that harks back to my point about the fact that the majority of Australians don't know enough or take very little interest in politics to make an informed decision.
For those people who are complaining about the Carbon tax, I wonder how many of them who voted for the ALP/Greens took a moment and thought "How are they going to reduce the mining taxes previously proposed by Rudd, deliver the NBN and finally deliver the Budget at a surplus in 2013 without introducing any further taxes?"
But then again I hazard a guess that most of these people would be in the same generational bracket as myself with the same sort of disposable income and would be the first with open arms ready when the government shells out the bikkies for us to go on a spending rampage.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
]
I can give her a core promise No vote from Happy
I'm sure she'll be upset to hear she lost a vote she never had to begin with…
And what makes you so sure I did not vote labour at last election maybe just not happy to be conned Yoss
I can give her a core promise No vote from Happy
I'm sure she'll be upset to hear she lost a vote she never had to begin with…
And what makes you so sure I did not vote labour at last election maybe just not happy to be conned Yoss
@happy tiger said:
The fact your mis-spell Labor is a clue…
Anyway in a 3 year cycle we will be up for election before any supposed long-term damage is done to the great unwashed masses and perhaps people will see the sky didn't fall in despite People Skill's protests...
happy_tiger
Well-known member
Anyway in a 3 year cycle we will be up for election before any supposed long-term damage is done to the great unwashed masses and perhaps people will see the sky didn't fall in despite People Skill's protests…
So because I spelt Labor incorrectly does that make me a socialist , neonazi , communist or even a one nation voter
So because I spelt Labor incorrectly does that make me a socialist , neonazi , communist or even a one nation voter
hammertime
Well-known member
@Cultured Bogan said:
Spot on mate. At least we were lucky enough to have the budget in a good position leading up to the GFC, so that we aren't facing austerity measures now like the UK or Greece.
It still amazes me as to how much we spent on policy like the BER that did very little to ease our main future pressures in Health, Transport & Energy. The NBN won't ease those pressures either. We are showing a major lack of foresight because most Aussies only seem to care about ourselves as individuals.
At the end of it all, we will have no one to blame but ourselves for what we will face over the next decade. We had a team that could make the hard decisions that they knew was to their detriment, but we threw them out when we needed them the most.
Now we are stuck with 2 idiot leaders (in govt and opposition), who base their decisions on polling numbers and backroom deals with minor parties. Plus, we now have to pay back a once in a lifetime spending spree that was extremely ill-targeted.
We really can't whinge. It's our own doing.
@hammertime said:
The BER was a disgrace. That was an exercise intent on delivering substandard products for three times the price. Every building that was built should be been placed out individually to competitive tender and reviewed by a tender team and tested for value for money. There should have been a 20% retainer pending location and rectification of defects and a pre-agreed variation rate of cost plus 15%. It would have cost the government almost infinitely less money to pay ten twenty odd consultants to oversee the projects and follow up all projects on their behalf.
The amount of waste in government projects, especially hastily cobbled ones such as this, is laughable.
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