Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[happy_tiger]

Well NBN went through last night with little or no press . That will be a disaster that costs 20% more than planned for little or no return imo

 

[Yossarian]

So because I spelt Labor incorrectly does that make me a socialist , neonazi , communist or even a one nation voter

Sorry mate - I was only having some fun. I didn't mean anything else by it.

 

[happy_tiger]

I know just winding you up Yoss . Anyway I'm a Loon for sure ask anyone

 

[hammertime]

The BER was a disgrace. That was an exercise intent on delivering substandard products for three times the price. Every building that was built should be been placed out individually to competitive tender and reviewed by a tender team and tested for value for money. There should have been a 20% retainer pending location and rectification of defects and a pre-agreed variation rate of cost plus 15%. It would have cost the government almost infinitely less money to pay ten twenty odd consultants to oversee the projects and follow up all projects on their behalf.

The amount of waste in government projects, especially hastily cobbled ones such as this, is laughable.

I agree. But it also shouldn't have even been done in the first place. It's not going to increase educational outcomes nor provide us future cost savings. The batts program was a good idea to help with energy costs, but it was poorly executed and a lot had to be ripped out. Then don't get me started on the $10 billion in ridiculous policy that Labor bought those independents with…

To me, with the BER, the one thing that I think would improve outcomes is make sure each classroom at least has aircon and good seats so that the kids are comfy. Maybe new educational tools? But halls, really? It's simple policy for unfortunately, us simple aussies. It will achieve nothing.

I don't know who's going to start making some tough decisions. But it at least looks like Barry is going to in NSW.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I agree. But it also shouldn't have even been done in the first place. It's not going to increase educational outcomes nor provide us future cost savings. The batts program was a good idea to help with energy costs, but it was poorly executed and a lot had to be ripped out. Then don't get me started on the $10 billion in ridiculous policy that Labor bought those independents with…

To me, with the BER, the one thing that I think would improve outcomes is make sure each classroom at least has aircon and good seats so that the kids are comfy. Maybe new educational tools? But halls, really? It's simple policy for unfortunately, us simple aussies. It will achieve nothing.

**I don't know who's going to start making some tough decisions. But it at least looks like Barry is going to in NSW.**

Yeah, after he figures out how much of a black hole we're in 😱pen_mouth:

 

[happy_tiger]

We are going to see a big day in politics tomorrow K Rudd was on Q and A tonight and has admitted that certain cabinet members wanted him to completely drop any ETS and Carbon Tax altogether and speaking a little bit about leadership challenge with Julia . He dropped some bomb shells tonight all and I'm guessing as we speak is hopping on a plane to get far far away

 

[Yossarian]

We are going to see a big day in politics tomorrow K Rudd was on Q and A tonight and has admitted that certain cabinet members wanted him to completely drop any ETS and Carbon Tax altogether and speaking a little bit about leadership challenge with Julia . He dropped some bomb shells tonight all and I'm guessing as we speak is hopping on a plane to get far far away

Much like Wikileaks, it's stuff we largely knew about anyway. This is more about Rudd's ongoing efforts to rehabilitate himself with the Aus public more than anything else. As it is, he's been pretty effective as foreign minister of late.

 

[happy_tiger]

He was like he old self last night . I still think he suffered through burn out as PM . He is a good foreign affairs minister . Just a pity he is a labour man and like many other federal labour people and has got his paddles out and paddling madly . Only problem he is on SS TiTanic (or SS Julia Gillard if you like) Surprised no press have run with the certain cabinet ministers wanting to abandon ETS and Carbon Tax policies story as of yet .

 

[Yossarian]

He was like he old self last night . I still think he suffered through burn out as PM . He is a good foreign affairs minister . Just a pity he is a labour man and like many other federal labour people and has got his paddles out and paddling madly . Only problem he is on SS TiTanic (or SS Julia Gillard if you like) Surprised no press have run with the certain cabinet ministers wanting to abandon ETS and Carbon Tax policies story as of yet .

Yeah I don't know, haven't seen too many names floating around but I'm sure you could make a guess…

The discipline seems a bit better these days, coincidently since Lindsay Tanner left parliament...

 

[Kul]

like both parties, there are deep divisions internally over the ETS. Remember it was coalition policy to implement a system from day dot right up until Abbott got up by 1 vote (mind you there were certain pro-ETS/Turnbull people missing from the spill).

The same could probably be said for Labor, with a split in support.

Put to conscience vote I believe it would pass with about 55-65% of chamber. Although it depends on the details…

 

[happy_tiger]

like both parties, there are deep divisions internally over the ETS. Remember it was coalition policy to implement a system from day dot right up until Abbott got up by 1 vote (mind you there were certain pro-ETS/Turnbull people missing from the spill).

The same could probably be said for Labor, with a split in support.

Put to conscience vote I believe it would pass with about 55-65% of chamber. Although it depends on the details…

Next federal election put it to referendum with 3 models to choose from Take it out of the politicians hands

 

[Yossarian]

like both parties, there are deep divisions internally over the ETS. Remember it was coalition policy to implement a system from day dot right up until Abbott got up by 1 vote (mind you there were certain pro-ETS/Turnbull people missing from the spill).

The same could probably be said for Labor, with a split in support.

Put to conscience vote I believe it would pass with about 55-65% of chamber. Although it depends on the details…

Next federal election put it to referendum with 3 models to choose from Take it out of the politicians hands

Then one gets up with 37% of the vote and everyone complains about that. Governments are elected to make these decisions, elections are there for the public to assess how the government does that.

 

[hammertime]

He was like he old self last night . I still think he suffered through burn out as PM . He is a good foreign affairs minister .

Mate, audio got captured insulting the Chinese at a conference. I think that's a pretty poor effort from an apparent diplomat when they are our major importer.

I don't think anyone that self obsessed can be a good foreign affairs minister. Plus, he certainly likes spending a lot of our money to do his job.

 

[hammertime]

like both parties, there are deep divisions internally over the ETS. Remember it was coalition policy to implement a system from day dot right up until Abbott got up by 1 vote (mind you there were certain pro-ETS/Turnbull people missing from the spill).

The same could probably be said for Labor, with a split in support.

Put to conscience vote I believe it would pass with about 55-65% of chamber. Although it depends on the details…

Next federal election put it to referendum with 3 models to choose from Take it out of the politicians hands

Then one gets up with 37% of the vote and everyone complains about that. Governments are elected to make these decisions, elections are there for the public to assess how the government does that.

I agree. It's actually the only good thing that Gillard is doing. It's great to see her make a tough decision for once.

 

[Yossarian]

He was like he old self last night . I still think he suffered through burn out as PM . He is a good foreign affairs minister .

Mate, audio got captured insulting the Chinese at a conference. I think that's a pretty poor effort from an apparent diplomat when they are our major importer.

I don't think anyone that self obsessed can be a good foreign affairs minister. Plus, he certainly likes spending a lot of our money to do his job.

You really think the PRC will stop buying our goods based on an angry oneliner? Come on now… They were more upset with Rudd's comments re the Hu trial.

And yeah, Downer never left Australia did he? Which particular trip or trips would you have cancelled for Kev?

 

[hammertime]

He was like he old self last night . I still think he suffered through burn out as PM . He is a good foreign affairs minister .

Mate, audio got captured insulting the Chinese at a conference. I think that's a pretty poor effort from an apparent diplomat when they are our major importer.

I don't think anyone that self obsessed can be a good foreign affairs minister. Plus, he certainly likes spending a lot of our money to do his job.

You really think the PRC will stop buying our goods based on an angry oneliner? Come on now… They were more upset with Rudd's comments re the Hu trial.

And yeah, Downer never left Australia did he? Which particular trip or trips would you have cancelled for Kev?

No, but I'm saying that he doesn't have the characteristics of a good diplomat if he can't control his temper.

Rudds spend has FAR exceeded downers. I'll track down some figures if you would like?

 

[happy_tiger]

He was like he old self last night . I still think he suffered through burn out as PM . He is a good foreign affairs minister .

Mate, audio got captured insulting the Chinese at a conference. I think that's a pretty poor effort from an apparent diplomat when they are our major importer.

I don't think anyone that self obsessed can be a good foreign affairs minister. Plus, he certainly likes spending a lot of our money to do his job.

Maybe I did not make it clear I think he is better as a Foreign Minister than PM and he seemed a bit more relaxed on Q and A than when I have seen him in other interviews . Would love to be a fly on the wall for the next conversation betwenn Rudd and Gillard though .

 

[hammertime]

I'm pretty sure I said way earlier in my previous comments that this would happen!

http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/national-broadband-network-workers-could-face-pay-cuts-union/story-e6frfkur-1226032093735#ixzz1Ic2IfUVW

The NBN was always going to simply drive up costs and inflation if we have the economic stupidity to try to build this when the economy is in full swing and unemployment is low. It would be great if the communications minister wasn't so self-serving and could have a modicum of economic rationality about this project.

All the general public is going to think about is themselves and vote this policy in, so we need our elected ministers to be smarter than this and make tough decisions to shelve projects when necessary.

Do we really need this to be built now? Build it when we have both the surplus money and the need for employment!

 

[Yossarian]

He was like he old self last night . I still think he suffered through burn out as PM . He is a good foreign affairs minister .

Mate, audio got captured insulting the Chinese at a conference. I think that's a pretty poor effort from an apparent diplomat when they are our major importer.

I don't think anyone that self obsessed can be a good foreign affairs minister. Plus, he certainly likes spending a lot of our money to do his job.

You really think the PRC will stop buying our goods based on an angry oneliner? Come on now… They were more upset with Rudd's comments re the Hu trial.

And yeah, Downer never left Australia did he? Which particular trip or trips would you have cancelled for Kev?

No, but I'm saying that he doesn't have the characteristics of a good diplomat if he can't control his temper.

Rudds spend has FAR exceeded downers. I'll track down some figures if you would like?

Sure go for it. The only figures I saw suggested Rudd spent a week longer travelling than Downer over a comparable period including trips to exotic locations like Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Jordan, and Bahrain. But in either case, it's not the expense but the justification for the travel so again I ask what trip(s) do you suggest Rudd should not have taken? Should he travel to say the USA or Thailand rather than Kazakhstan or Kenya because the first two are cheaper?

All I'm saying is this whole travel business has always been a cheap shot. Rudd is one of the best FA Ministers we've had in some time and he was spot on in his assessment of Libya and Japan. Downer struggled at the South Pacific Forum.

 

[hammertime]

You really think the PRC will stop buying our goods based on an angry oneliner? Come on now… They were more upset with Rudd's comments re the Hu trial.

And yeah, Downer never left Australia did he? Which particular trip or trips would you have cancelled for Kev?

No, but I'm saying that he doesn't have the characteristics of a good diplomat if he can't control his temper.

Rudds spend has FAR exceeded downers. I'll track down some figures if you would like?

Sure go for it. The only figures I saw suggested Rudd spent a week longer travelling than Downer over a comparable period including trips to exotic locations like Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Jordan, and Bahrain. But in either case, it's not the expense but the justification for the travel so again I ask what trip(s) do you suggest Rudd should not have taken? Should he travel to say the USA or Thailand rather than Kazakhstan or Kenya because the first two are cheaper?

All I'm saying is this whole travel business has always been a cheap shot. Rudd is one of the best FA Ministers we've had in some time and he was spot on in his assessment of Libya and Japan. Downer struggled at the South Pacific Forum.

Here we go.. doesn't have any figures though, but double Downers time.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/minister-for-frequent-flying-20110312-1bs29.html

…and yes, I would suggest he spend more time in the USA or Thailand rather than Kazakhstan or Liechtenstein who really won't do much for our nation. Cost v Benefit analysis - maybe Labor should learn what one of those are.