Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[jadtiger]

I think that it was a terrible decision to leave Afghanistan.

Apart from human rights and removing a haven for terrorism, it had become an extremely cost effective way to have a presence in the region as basically guests. With another cold war type situation evolving with Russia and much more ***important one with China***, a strategic base has been lost.

Exactly.....already China has endorsed the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan and will woo them with diplomacy and then exactly like North Korea, Afghanistan will be Chinas private resource playground.

Would have cost almost nothing for the US to maintain a presence that maintained at least the status quo

China will get a shock if it tries to impose its will on Afghanistan.As much as i loathe what the Taliban has done in the past there is a massive independent mindset in its people.Other empires have tried and failed in the past(Britain Russia and to a lesser extent USA) i doubt if China would have any more success in the longterm

 

[Tiger5150]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

China has already announced that they are building a massive highway from western China through Afghanistan into Pakistan and Central Asia.

 

[Tiger5150]

I think that it was a terrible decision to leave Afghanistan.

Apart from human rights and removing a haven for terrorism, it had become an extremely cost effective way to have a presence in the region as basically guests. With another cold war type situation evolving with Russia and much more ***important one with China***, a strategic base has been lost.

Exactly.....already China has endorsed the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan and will woo them with diplomacy and then exactly like North Korea, Afghanistan will be Chinas private resource playground.

Would have cost almost nothing for the US to maintain a presence that maintained at least the status quo


China will get a shock if it tries to impose its will on Afghanistan.As much as i loathe what the Taliban has done in the past there is a massive independent mindset in its people.Other empires have tried and failed in the past(Britain Russia and to a lesser extent USA) i doubt if China would have any more success in the longterm

China wont even try to fight Afghanistan, they wont need to.

China has already announced that they are building a massive highway from western China through Afghanistan into Pakistan and Central Asia. China will build influence as part of its "Belt and Road" initiative all the while not caring at all about Afghani human rights atrocities. China will just quietly go about mining rare earth metals from the Afghani hills.

 

[Don Kershane]

Says a lot about the Muslim world that they are happy to the sell out the Uighurs for a road or oil or cheap labour from China.

 

[Snake]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

China has already announced that they are building a massive highway from western China through Afghanistan into Pakistan and Central Asia.

Will that be Tolled ?

 

[TillLindemann]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

That would have been awesome mate! So that would have been before the Soviet invasion? I watched a really good documentary a few years ago, can't recall the name of it, had a British fella journeying through Afghanistan on the trail of Alexander the Great, looking at ancient Zoroastrian sites etc. Full of history that part of the world, which adds to the pain of it now being back under the control of nutters who deliberately destroy historic monuments a la Bamayan.

 

[TillLindemann]

I think that it was a terrible decision to leave Afghanistan.

Apart from human rights and removing a haven for terrorism, it had become an extremely cost effective way to have a presence in the region as basically guests. With another cold war type situation evolving with Russia and much more ***important one with China***, a strategic base has been lost.

Exactly.....already China has endorsed the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan and will woo them with diplomacy and then exactly like North Korea, Afghanistan will be Chinas private resource playground.

Would have cost almost nothing for the US to maintain a presence that maintained at least the status quo


China will get a shock if it tries to impose its will on Afghanistan.As much as i loathe what the Taliban has done in the past there is a massive independent mindset in its people.Other empires have tried and failed in the past(Britain Russia and to a lesser extent USA) i doubt if China would have any more success in the longterm

China wont even try to fight Afghanistan, they wont need to.

China has already announced that they are building a massive highway from western China through Afghanistan into Pakistan and Central Asia. China will build influence as part of its "Belt and Road" initiative all the while not caring at all about Afghani human rights atrocities. China will just quietly go about mining rare earth metals from the Afghani hills.

Though not without resistance - it doesn't get reported much in Australia, but militants in Pakistan fighting for an independent Baluchistan have repeatedly targeted Chinese workers in attacks on Belt and Road type projects.

 

[Tiger5150]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

That would have been awesome mate! So that would have been before the Soviet invasion? I watched a really good documentary a few years ago, can't recall the name of it, had a British fella journeying through Afghanistan on the trail of Alexander the Great, looking at ancient Zoroastrian sites etc. Full of history that part of the world, which adds to the pain of it now being back under the control of nutters who deliberately destroy historic monuments a la Bamayan.

A friend of mine did it about 16 years ago and at the time she was a late 20's, tiny pretty blond and she with her female friend did the silk road including Afghanistan. Brave girl.

 

[TillLindemann]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

That would have been awesome mate! So that would have been before the Soviet invasion? I watched a really good documentary a few years ago, can't recall the name of it, had a British fella journeying through Afghanistan on the trail of Alexander the Great, looking at ancient Zoroastrian sites etc. Full of history that part of the world, which adds to the pain of it now being back under the control of nutters who deliberately destroy historic monuments a la Bamayan.

A friend of mine did it about 16 years ago and at the time she was a late 20's, tiny pretty blond and she with her female friend did the silk road including Afghanistan. Brave girl.

Wow, yeah post September 11 is pretty brave.

 

[Tiger5150]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

That would have been awesome mate! So that would have been before the Soviet invasion? I watched a really good documentary a few years ago, can't recall the name of it, had a British fella journeying through Afghanistan on the trail of Alexander the Great, looking at ancient Zoroastrian sites etc. Full of history that part of the world, which adds to the pain of it now being back under the control of nutters who deliberately destroy historic monuments a la Bamayan.

A friend of mine did it about 16 years ago and at the time she was a late 20's, tiny pretty blond and she with her female friend did the silk road including Afghanistan. Brave girl.

Wow, yeah post September 11 is pretty brave.

It was definitely post 2001 because I started working with her after that and around the time of my daughter being born (she just turned 17). I had to go back and do the maths because it seems crazy.

 

[Don Kershane]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

That would have been awesome mate! So that would have been before the Soviet invasion? I watched a really good documentary a few years ago, can't recall the name of it, had a British fella journeying through Afghanistan on the trail of Alexander the Great, looking at ancient Zoroastrian sites etc. Full of history that part of the world, which adds to the pain of it now being back under the control of nutters who deliberately destroy historic monuments a la Bamayan.

It was a fairly common trip then . Drove in van from London to Calcutta, One thing I never forgot was how tall the Pashtun men were. Taliban style clothing - scary when they stared at you - can only guess what they were thinking.

 

[TillLindemann]

Turkey is building a wall along its border with Iran to keep out Afghan refugees.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Biden had nothing to do with the Afghanistan withdrawal ?? look at the presser last week he said it will not be another Saigon and Americans hanging of roofs and escaping embassies like Saigon.
Biden is an absolute peanut

Yeah his comments about helicopters etc aged like milk. They can't hide behind the "Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon was pulling out too," Biden presided over it and it was a total shambles.

Moreover, if I were a loved one of the countless Afghani civilians or few thousand allied troops that died in Afghanistan, I would be absolutely devastated that after all that bloodshed and death in the last two decades, that country is back to where it was on 11/09/2001.

Afghanistan in the 1970's in Getty stock images. Not that I expect you were unaware, more so for others and regardless of what leaders are saying now, it was sold as an occupation for reconstruction of both infrastructure and rights.


Yeah you see the same parallels in Iran.

And we went into the country next door of Iraq that mostly had such freedoms, ruined the country and basically laid the foundations that created the Islamic States movements.

It has always struck me as bizarre that since September 11, which was carried out by fundamentalists, America and allies have shown most determination to overthrow *secular* governments in the Middle East - Iraq, Syria, Libya - while supporting fundamentalist rebels in those countries, and remaining close to fundamentalist governments like the Saudis.

Arms deals and oil mate.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

That would have been awesome mate! So that would have been before the Soviet invasion? I watched a really good documentary a few years ago, can't recall the name of it, had a British fella journeying through Afghanistan on the trail of Alexander the Great, looking at ancient Zoroastrian sites etc. Full of history that part of the world, which adds to the pain of it now being back under the control of nutters who deliberately destroy historic monuments a la Bamayan.

It was a fairly common trip then . Drove in van from London to Calcutta, One thing I never forgot was how tall the Pashtun men were. Taliban style clothing - scary when they stared at you - can only guess what they were thinking.

That's crazy mate. I am pretty sure someone on here did the whole silk road trek, was it you, or someone else?

 

[Don Kershane]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

That would have been awesome mate! So that would have been before the Soviet invasion? I watched a really good documentary a few years ago, can't recall the name of it, had a British fella journeying through Afghanistan on the trail of Alexander the Great, looking at ancient Zoroastrian sites etc. Full of history that part of the world, which adds to the pain of it now being back under the control of nutters who deliberately destroy historic monuments a la Bamayan.

It was a fairly common trip then . Drove in van from London to Calcutta, One thing I never forgot was how tall the Pashtun men were. Taliban style clothing - scary when they stared at you - can only guess what they were thinking.

That's crazy mate. I am pretty sure someone on here did the whole silk road trek, was it you, or someone else?

Yes. It wasn't such a big deal then. In the dodgy areas you camp in the police compound for a fee. Border crossings were a bit of a lottery re bribes etc. Police in old Yugoslavia were more corrupt . if you had no cash they would take you to friendly hotel to cash your travellers cheques.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

That would have been awesome mate! So that would have been before the Soviet invasion? I watched a really good documentary a few years ago, can't recall the name of it, had a British fella journeying through Afghanistan on the trail of Alexander the Great, looking at ancient Zoroastrian sites etc. Full of history that part of the world, which adds to the pain of it now being back under the control of nutters who deliberately destroy historic monuments a la Bamayan.

It was a fairly common trip then . Drove in van from London to Calcutta, One thing I never forgot was how tall the Pashtun men were. Taliban style clothing - scary when they stared at you - can only guess what they were thinking.

That's crazy mate. I am pretty sure someone on here did the whole silk road trek, was it you, or someone else?

Yes. It wasn't such a big deal then. In the dodgy areas you camp in the police compound for a fee. Border crossings were a bit of a lottery re bribes etc. Police in old Yugoslavia were more corrupt . if you had no cash they would take you to friendly hotel to cash your travellers cheques.

Still would have been a great trip.

Always wanted to see Palmyra, not sure how much of it is left after ISIS went through there and blew up the old temples.

 

[TillLindemann]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

That would have been awesome mate! So that would have been before the Soviet invasion? I watched a really good documentary a few years ago, can't recall the name of it, had a British fella journeying through Afghanistan on the trail of Alexander the Great, looking at ancient Zoroastrian sites etc. Full of history that part of the world, which adds to the pain of it now being back under the control of nutters who deliberately destroy historic monuments a la Bamayan.

It was a fairly common trip then . Drove in van from London to Calcutta, One thing I never forgot was how tall the Pashtun men were. Taliban style clothing - scary when they stared at you - can only guess what they were thinking.

That's crazy mate. I am pretty sure someone on here did the whole silk road trek, was it you, or someone else?

Yes. It wasn't such a big deal then. In the dodgy areas you camp in the police compound for a fee. Border crossings were a bit of a lottery re bribes etc. Police in old Yugoslavia were more corrupt . if you had no cash they would take you to friendly hotel to cash your travellers cheques.

Still would have been a great trip.

Always wanted to see Palmyra, not sure how much of it is left after ISIS went through there and blew up the old temples.

Man that was just heartbreaking. Look up the name Khaled al-Asaad, I hope his name is never forgotten. Willingly went to his death to try and protect some of the antiquities there.

 

[Don Kershane]

Can't imagine the Yanks leaving any of Afghan air force to the Taliban. Expect some action after the evacuations finish.

 

[balmain boy]

Remember driving across Afghanistan when the Soviets and Americans were vying for influence. The Soviets built half the main highway in concrete and the Americans the other half in asphalt. The asphalt was deteriorating rapidly. It is a shame generations of young travellers won't have the opportunity to visit these areas(safely) as the overland trip used to be one of the great ones.

China has already announced that they are building a massive highway from western China through Afghanistan into Pakistan and Central Asia.

China can announce what it wants. It doesn't mean it's got any chance of happening. Why would the Taliban support this road? Just so they can hijack any trucks that drive along it?

 

[balmain boy]

I think that it was a terrible decision to leave Afghanistan.

Apart from human rights and removing a haven for terrorism, it had become an extremely cost effective way to have a presence in the region as basically guests. With another cold war type situation evolving with Russia and much more important one with China, a strategic base has been lost.

So you expect Afghanistan to just become the next state of the USA? They'd just stay there forever, with Americans dying on a daily basis just because?