Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[jadtiger]

They do already. In the energy sector,
as well as ports and livestock farms,
plenty of them. The libs sold most of it
for a lump sum and than go on & treat
them like they're a boogey man.
Albo doing a good job at mending
a lot of fractured relationships.
Credit where it's due. Calling for
privatization gets you called a
Socialist/communist haha. It's
another weaponized term used by
the hard-right to describe people
Taking care of other people

The leasing of Darwin Port for 99 years to a chinese "company" is the perfect example of politicians getting things badly wrong (Naturally it was Scommo who allowed it).We still have over 90 years of that poor decision ahead of us.

 

[earl]

They do already.

I get this but we also have to be careful in how we manage our economy. I don't know enough about the deals that have been raised but you have to try and make good business decisions.

Privatization and foreign ownership are not simplistic black and white issues. I tend to prefer the private sector operating most businesses but the reality is capitalism does not provide the best outcome in lots of situations.

It's more about intervening where it makes sense and then doing it correctly.

Maybe @weststigers can provide a bit more information on this issue so we might understand it better.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

They do already. In the energy sector,
as well as ports and livestock farms,
plenty of them. The libs sold most of it
for a lump sum and than go on & treat
them like they're a boogey man.
Albo doing a good job at mending
a lot of fractured relationships.
Credit where it's due. Calling for
privatization gets you called a
Socialist/communist haha. It's
another weaponized term used by
the hard-right to describe people
Taking care of other people

Sell offs were bipartisan and started with Hawke. It was an American globalist model which they are choosing to retreat from.

I'm generally right wing but against privatization and the selling of land and houses to Chinese and other nationals.

I voted ALP this election and have previously voted Carr and Rudd.

I voted ALP this time because I didn't like the LP handling of money transfers during lockdown. Some got ahead and others wiped out.

And also dislike submarine deal. I think this is gunna suck us into a war with China from which I can see no happy ending for Australia. Nuclear subs loitering in tbe Taiwan straight is not defending our interest. And if war breaks out and we lob a couple of dozen rockets into China they will pump us with a couple of thousand missiles.

And then imagine the sanctions our American partners will compel us to put on China and visa versa.

Australia will be battling to pay welfare.

'Walk away': Keating's huge AUKUS call as he thrashes Quad, G7 for China snub

A former prime minister has told the Albanese Government to withdraw from the AUKUS security deal as the United States is "exceptionally ungrateful" for its loyal allies.

www.skynews.com.au

Seems former ALP PM Keating agrees.

Former LP PM Malcolm Fraser said as much also before his death around 10years ago with amazing prescience.

 

[earl]

I'm generally right wing but against privatization and tbe selling of land and houses to Chinese and other nationals.

I don't think the housing issue to the Chinese is really an issue though. You can fact check this but I think I checked the facts previously and it's not true. It's such a tiny percentage of the market.

A funny story is that my in-laws are loaded and they live in the Eastern suburbs. They are also Asian. One of their friends sold their house for like 8 million dollars and my MIL said in her thick accent when asked who bought the house "the chinese - they are the only ones who can afford it".

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Concerns about threats from rival China took a backseat to more local issues in the elections. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...its-as-party-head-after-local-election-losses

This struggled to make mainstream western news, they avoid what doesn't suit them. I found it here .

Basically, it means that the pro U.S. push in Taiwan got defeated in local elections and Tsai resigned.

Big news especially after Pelosi was recently dancing over there.

Taiwan is part of China and we have no business over there.

Seems locals are leaning that way.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

I don't think the housing issue to the Chinese is really an issue though. You can fact check this but I think I checked the facts previously and it's not true. It's such a tiny percentage of the market.

A funny story is that my in-laws are loaded and they live in the Eastern suburbs. They are also Asian. One of their friends sold their house for like 8 million dollars and my MIL said in her thick accent when asked who bought the house "the chinese - they are the only ones who can afford it".

There is no land register in Australia for this type of thing.

Also on large land purchases Chinese become nationals so they become naturalized.

The average working man or small business owner cannot pay these prices so your MIL comments have some truth.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Interesting. This is not one of the right wing extremist clearly illogical type of points that are often made on here.

There isn't enough information in that article for me to judge the situation as well as what I'd like but I don't like the idea of China buying into various schemes and if it goes bad they end up owning whatever they invested in. They could end up owning critical infrastructure.

💯 while I am all for free market, this needs some qualification:
- free market assumes that both sides are fully open, in the case of China this is not the case ATM. So, the condition for Chinese to buy properties in Australia is they must allow Australians to buy the same class of property in China.
- re "un-reliables" we have to learn something from Russian "special operation", they were in a position to blackmail the EU because they are (were?) 90% + dependant on their NG/oil. We cannot allow the CPP manufactures/ maintains more than 10% of our energy sources. This is one of the reasons why we need a mixture of a different technologies e.g. hydro, coal, gas, small nuclear, solar/wind.
Sadly, there is bipartisan agreement to put all our eggs into one basket - solar/wind only 😥

 

[Kaito]

Sell offs were bipartisan and started with Hawke. It was an American globalist model which they are choosing to retreat from.

I'm generally right wing but against privatization and and the selling of land and houses to Chinese and other nationals.

I voted ALP this election and have previously voted Carr and Rudd.

I voted ALP this time because I didn't like the LP handling of money transfers during lockdown. Some got ahead and others wiped out.

And also dislike submarine deal. I think this is gunna suck us into a war with China from which I can see no happy ending for Australia. Nuclear subs loitering in tbe Taiwan straight is not defending our interest. And if war breaks out and we lob a couple of dozen rockets into China they will pump us with a couple of thousand missiles.

And then imagine the sanctions our American partners will compel us to put on China and vis versa.

Australia will be battling to pay welfare.

'Walk away': Keating's huge AUKUS call as he thrashes Quad, G7 for China snub

A former prime minister has told the Albanese Government to withdraw from the AUKUS security deal as the United States is "exceptionally ungrateful" for its loyal allies.

www.skynews.com.au

Seems former ALP PM Keating agrees

Great post, thank you

 

[Kaito]

Concerns about threats from rival China took a backseat to more local issues in the elections. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...its-as-party-head-after-local-election-losses

This struggled to make mainstream western news, they avoid what doesn't suit them. I found it here .

Basically, it means that the pro U.S. push in Taiwan got defeated in local elections and Tsai resigned.

Big news especially after Pelosi was recently dancing over there.

Taiwan is part of China and we have no business over there.

Seems locals are leaning that way.

China will use their port in
Darwin to attack us with if we're
not careful haha. Lord have mercy

And then of course America/west
Will cripple us economically if we
don't maintain that hardline stance
against Asia in this east/west fight
for supremecy. All jokes aside it's
We're between a rock & hard place

 

[TillLindemann]

💯 while I am all for free market, this needs some qualification:
- free market assumes that both sides are fully open, in the case of China this is not the case ATM.

agree with this. It is not reciprocal at the moment - Australian businesses are not allowed to buy into Chinese property, farms, electricity network, ports, rail, mines etc. But they expect access to ours.

 

[earl]

💯 while I am all for free market, this needs some qualification:
- free market assumes that both sides are fully open, in the case of China this is not the case ATM. So, the condition for Chinese to buy properties in Australia is they must allow Australians to buy the same class of property in China.

I agree with the first part but not the second. I'm fine with foreign investment in Australia but we need to be careful.

- re "un-reliables" we have to learn something from Russian "special operation", they were in a position to blackmail the EU because they are (were?) 90% + dependant on their NG/oil. We cannot allow the CPP manufactures/ maintains more than 10% of our energy sources. This is one of the reasons why we need a mixture of a different technologies e.g. hydro, coal, gas, small nuclear, solar/wind.
Sadly, there is bipartisan agreement to put all our eggs into one basket - solar/wind only 😥

Capitalism isn't perfect and when foreign countries can act in ways that are not above board we have to extremely careful.

I'm not convinced on your argument about energy policies of Australians. We do need to move towards becoming carbon neutral because the reality and this is factual climate change could be catastrophic.

At the same time we also need to ensure we have an energy policy that provides our energy needs.

 

[earl]

The average working man or small business owner cannot pay these prices so your MIL comments have some truth.

Not much though. I don't think there was ever a time when the average working man/small business owner could afford a house in the Eastern Suburbs.

When it comes to the bigger issue of housing affordability in Australia I don't think Chinese investment is a contributing factor at all. It's predominantly low interest rates and a lack of supply or even changing demographics meaning people now can't afford houses but need to live in units.

 

[Kaito]

agree with this. It is not reciprocal at the moment - Australian businesses are not allowed to buy into Chinese property, farms, electricity network, ports, rail, mines etc. But they expect access to ours.

Just like Earl said in his anecdotal post

A funny story is that my in-laws are loaded and they live in the Eastern suburbs. They are also Asian. One of their friends sold their house for like 8 million dollars and my MIL said in her thick accent when asked who bought the house "the chinese - they are the only ones who can afford it".

And we're willing to sell it.
I don't buy into the China bad
AUKUS good crap. They can't
and won't help us & we've
tied our own hands behind our backs.
We need to help ourselves, serve
the people and our best interests.
But I know that's all fantasy talk.

 

[earl]

We're between a rock & hard place

We are but as per your comment earlier it appears that Albanese government is handling this situation so much better than the Libs.

This is not meant to be a extremely pro Labour argument. I just think the Libs under Morrison were basically incompetent.

Here is the thing the vast majority if people will not be affected by who is in power. I've never been affected.

At the same time we need people managing these tough situations who are competent.

 

[earl]

Just like Earl said in anecdotal post



And we're willing to sell it.
I don't buy into the China bad
AUKUS good crap. They can't
and won't help us & we've
tied our own hands behind our backs.
We need to help ourselves, serve
the people and our best interests.
But I know that's all fantasy talk

I'm with you. We need to calmly and rationally work out the right approaches to problems that we have.

We've just talked about housing affordability and our energy policies. These are massive issues that require really good management.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

💯 while I am all for free market, this needs some qualification:
- free market assumes that both sides are fully open, in the case of China this is not the case ATM. So, the condition for Chinese to buy properties in Australia is they must allow Australians to buy the same class of property in China.

Totally agree

- re "un-reliables" we have to learn something from Russian "special operation", they were in a position to blackmail the EU because they are (were?) 90% + dependant on their NG/oil. We cannot allow the CPP manufactures/ maintains more than 10% of our energy sources. This is one of the reasons why we need a mixture of a different technologies e.g. hydro, coal, gas, small nuclear, solar/wind.
Sadly, there is bipartisan agreement to put all our eggs into one basket - solar/wind only 😥

Now the Europeans are blackmailed by the U.S. and have lost nearly all sovereignty.

The east west rupture was a design feature in U.S. geopolitics to pull Russia away from Europe and to make Europe depended on U.S. military equipment, food and energy and energy for example at 4 x the price Americans pay.

Nice allies.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Just like Earl said in his anecdotal post



And we're willing to sell it.
I don't buy into the China bad
AUKUS good crap. They can't
and won't help us & we've
tied our own hands behind our backs.
We need to help ourselves, serve
the people and our best interests.
But I know that's all fantasy talk,
'cause money talks & bullshit walks

Been a long time since Australia was for Australians.

Just fantasizing anyway gunna get worse.

 

[Kaito]

I'm with you. We need to calmly and rationally work out the right approaches to problems that we have.

We've just talked about housing affordability and our energy policies. These are massive issues that require really good management.

Too right Earl. And stay out of trouble!

Now the Europeans are blackmailed by the U.S. and have lost nearly all sovereignty.

The east west rupture was a design feature in us geopolitics to pull Russia away from Europe and to make Europe depended on U.S. military equipment, food and energy and energy for example at 4 x the price Americans pay.

Nice allies.

Like the old saying goes MM:
"Small tank, too many sharks"

 

[Magpie_Magic]

agree with this. It is not reciprocal at the moment - Australian businesses are not allowed to buy into Chinese property, farms, electricity network, ports, rail, mines etc. But they expect access to ours.

Yes,

China isn't just pushing up house prices and buying our raw materials.

China is for China. As it should be.

But we need to be for ourselves..

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Now the Europeans are blackmailed by the U.S. and have lost nearly all sovereignty.
The east west rupture was a design feature in U.S. geopolitics to pull Russia away from Europe and to make Europe depended on U.S. military equipment, food and energy and energy for example at 4 x the price Americans pay.

Nice allies.

Agree, in the ideal situation, countries would be fully independent, and trade with all countries that have fully open, free market. However, we are still in the position that you MUST choose the side, or in the case that you cannot/ don't want they will make that decision for you e.g. "special operation", "de-nazisation", "belt and roads", "operation enduring freedom", "WMD" etc.