Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[happy_tiger]

Very true CB and he will make a bucket full for the story

 

[alien]

i wonder how many other terrorists pakistan are harbouring

 

[system]

i wonder how many other terrorists pakistan are harbouring

Harbouring is a bit of a rough term alien. There is no available facts to suggest the government knew anything about the presence of Osama at this stage

 

[alien]

pakistan harboured him in the 90's. the u.s. was going to blow bin laden to hell in the 90's and the pakistanis tipped him off and he got away. so he lived at this fortified compound that was built in 2005 which 2 of his sons owned, it had two massive 15 foot walls around it, they burnt the garbage, had no phone or internet connection, had couriers coming and going and we are meant to believe that the pakistan government knew nothing? yeah right

 

[system]

I think you seriously overestimate the intelligence service capabilities of bordeline third world nations alien.

The majority of all of Pakistans intelligence service is used to monitor the Kashmir region and Indian movements and they have very little idea about what occurs in their own provinces.

There has also been an elemental shift in the ruling class of Pakistan since the mid and late nineties which has begun shifting priorities and has formed closer alliances with Western nations.

The fact that the Pakistani government had no idea about the operation until it was completed should give you some hint as to the tenuous link the government has on its internal actions.

It is more likely that a provincial ruler in the form of either a corrupt local government or indeed warlord (for want of a better term but you get the drift) was responsible for harboring him.

No concrete timeline has yet been established for the movements of Bin Laden as yet and it is highly likely the full details will never be know

 

[alien]

the pakistanis had no idea about the operation because the u.s. didnt tell them, because they might have tipped him off again. it doesnt mean they didnt know he was there. the u.s. did the right thing not to tell them about the operation, and do the job themselves

 

[system]

They didn't even know their airspace was invaded alien. Otherwise first response fighters from Islamabad would have been in the air.

I am not arguing the merit of the details of the operation. They followed their procedures to a t.

I do however object to the inflammatory Bushisms of harbouring and axis of evil rearing their head again and that is the point I am making

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I think you seriously overestimate the intelligence service capabilities of bordeline third world nations alien.

The majority of all of Pakistans intelligence service is used to monitor the Kashmir region and Indian movements and they have very little idea about what occurs in their own provinces.

There has also been an elemental shift in the ruling class of Pakistan since the mid and late nineties which has begun shifting priorities and has formed closer alliances with Western nations.

The fact that the Pakistani government had no idea about the operation until it was completed should give you some hint as to the tenuous link the government has on its internal actions.

It is more likely that a provincial ruler in the form of either a corrupt local government or indeed warlord (for want of a better term but you get the drift) was responsible for harboring him.

No concrete timeline has yet been established for the movements of Bin Laden as yet and it is highly likely the full details will never be know

This.

The largest and arguably the most advanced intelligence organisation on the planet allegedly had no idea where he was for a decade, so I can't imagine the Pakis having any clue.

 

[happy_tiger]

the pakistanis had no idea about the operation because the u.s. didnt tell them, because they might have tipped him off again. it doesnt mean they didnt know he was there. the u.s. did the right thing not to tell them about the operation, and do the job themselves

Sure I heard in Obama's speech yesterday him thank the Pakistani govt for its assistance

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

the pakistanis had no idea about the operation because the u.s. didnt tell them, because they might have tipped him off again. it doesnt mean they didnt know he was there. the u.s. did the right thing not to tell them about the operation, and do the job themselves

**Sure I heard in Obama's speech yesterday him thank the Pakistani govt for its assistance**

Probably professional courtesy, so as not to make the Pakistani's look stupid or weak.

 

[alien]

They didn't even know their airspace was invaded alien. Otherwise first response fighters from Islamabad would have been in the air.

I am not arguing the merit of the details of the operation. They followed their procedures to a t.

I do however object to the inflammatory Bushisms of harbouring and axis of evil rearing their head again and that is the point I am making

i know pakistan didnt know their airspace was being invaded. it's because the u.s. told them nothing and rightly so. countries that harbour terrorists, especially ones like bin laden, is not an ally but an enemy, no matter how much they try to convince you otherwise

 

[happy_tiger]

They didn't even know their airspace was invaded alien. Otherwise first response fighters from Islamabad would have been in the air.

I am not arguing the merit of the details of the operation. They followed their procedures to a t.

I do however object to the inflammatory Bushisms of harbouring and axis of evil rearing their head again and that is the point I am making

i know pakistan didnt know their airspace was being invaded. it's because the u.s. told them nothing and rightly so. countries that harbour terrorists, especially ones like bin laden, is not an ally but an enemy, no matter how much they try to convince you otherwise

Give the Pakistanis a break Alien they are too busy trying to rig cricket games to care about terrorists and countries entering their air space

 

[system]

i know pakistan didnt know their airspace was being invaded. it's because the u.s. told them nothing and rightly so. countries that harbour terrorists, especially ones like bin laden, is not an ally but an enemy, no matter how much they try to convince you otherwise

Yet it doesn't speak to you thattheir external defence net is so poor that they couldn't pick up helicopters in their airspace?

I disagree with your rhetorc rich, fact poor argument. But rather than going through a long post the easiest way is to merely extrapolate your theory. By doing so we must assume that Australia is an enemy of the United States as we "harbour" Hicks and Habib. We also "harbour" clerics that denounce America nad call for violent Jihad. Guess we should be looking over our shoulders

 

[alien]

well they should care about terrorists in their country. the u.s. is paying them billions of dollars to track terrorists down. i forgot to say that the compound was less than a kilometer from a pakistan army base and was in a town full of retired pakistani generals

 

[system]

The Pakistani authority has actually been quite effective in scattering the networked terrorists from their concentration in the border mountains near Afghanistan. The money paid is also to allow drones to be flown and controlled fron northern air bases.

One would actually hope that ensuring a sustainable future and food and clean water for all of their population would be a higher priority than looking for "Tim"

I would be interested to know how many generals are living in that town along with the size and terrain of the town alien. The fact that they are retired should hopefully tell you something about the new wave of forward movement from the Pakistani government. Corruption is on the fall and public works on the rise.

The single most effective way that the US could have stopped the cycle of terrorism would have to have spent every dollar they spent chasing Bin Laden and put it into programs to improve the quality of life of the people most at risk of terrorist recruitment.

 

[alien]

its a military town next to an army base. i dont know the exact number of retired generals that are living there but it's a military town. ofcourse the pakistanis had to co-operate to some extent because they wanted to continue to get paid billions of dollars. are you really not suspicious about this at all???

 

[system]

I am suspicious of any rogue military.

However the information that crosses my desk leads me to believe that the future co-operation between the US and Pakistan will only continue to strengthen whilst the current powers that be in each nation remain.

For the record I couldn't even tell you what my neighbours two doors away looked like or their names. Society is not as close as you seem to believe.

 

[alien]

For the record I couldn't even tell you what my neighbours two doors away looked like or their names. Society is not as close as you seem to believe.

fair enough but im guessing that the property 2 doors away isn't owned by 2 of bin laden's brothers, isn't a fortified mansion with 2 15 foot walls around it, dont burn their rubbish, have no internet or phone connection, doesnt have couriers coming and going. i guess we might find out more about it soon. i know the american government is asking some serious questions about it

 

[alien]

By doing so we must assume that Australia is an enemy of the United States as we "harbour" Hicks and Habib.

habib - that nutter was just on sky news saying that bin laden isnt really dead and that his lawyers in pakistan are telling him that :laughing: you can tell he was lying though by the way he was talking and his body language. he was lying through his teeth. he knows he is gone.

bin laden thought he was safe and sound. :laughing:
one of the best things about his death is that the last person he saw was an American. :slight_smile:

 

[system]

I couldn't tell you who owns it. They do burn rubbish ftr and it is gated with an electrified permeter fence. But whatever they are entitled to their privacy.

My information is different to your obviously alien and I will trust that more than internet gossip. But if you are right than apologies