Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[happy_tiger]

I live in a conservative envronment (retirement village) in a very safe liberal seat.Just about everyone here including right wing liberal voters believe Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a disaster.Only one person i know thinks he is doing a good job and she also believes climate change is a scam and a commie plot.
American politics are so more divisive than what we are used to and hopefully we never descend to their level.I wouldnt have voted for either of their candidates at their last election as i didnt trust either even if i was eligable

I think a lot of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters have been duped in believing the country voted him in cos they were over the establishment, when I think the bigger reason was the abhorrent candidate the Dems ran with. One of the most unlikeable Presidential candidates in history. It was the quintessential turd sandwich and giant douche election.


This election choice coming up will be 15 shades of special as well.

Biden is that more likable than Hillary, they aren’t in the same universe. He actually shows genuine humility.


Agree with that. I think he comes across as a good and genuine bloke (providing he isnt a rapist). The Dems wont let him be genuine though and he is clearly losing his faculties.

As an outsider, I see the Dems as a large machine whereas I see the GOP as a large group of disparate individuals. I see both the Clintons as a symptom and representative of that machine, Pelosi, Schumer etc. Bernie was never allowed in. I see the fact that a nearly 80yo man losing his faculties is elevated by this machine as a very dangerous thing. Dem voters are not getting what they vote for.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters will get exactly what they vote for. He is not hiding the ball.

It is a rubbish choice. I think the world needs a good strong, ***unifying*** leader of the largest economy in the free world. It is unbelievably simple and easy. All they need to do, is provide a candidate who is sensible, moderate, doesnt say or do anything stupid and ***makes the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon***, then they win. The Dems have had 4 years to learn their lessons and they either havent learned them or they have an alternate agenda. To end up with Bernie or Biden as the last two candidates is mindblowingly stupid. Make the election about Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, you win. Give Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon a platform to rail against socialism (bernie) or dementia and you make the election about everything but him. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is an idiot but a great campaigner. If the election isnt about him, he wins.

I'm starting to think Bruce Lee never died ...he became 5150 ....fighting everyone over everything

 

[Tiger5150]

Sweden has had approximately 13,000 cases, 1400 deaths but only 550 recovered. More people dying than recovering? Why?

Is it Denmark or Sweden which still allows citizens to socialise?

Also, I am extremely concerned about the UK. It's figures do not include the elderly who have died in aged care. Since it was reported 2000 facilities have reported deaths, the UK problem and figures are greatly misleading. Boris has correctly been called out on acting too slowly to close borders.


I think it was only the tunnel? Macron kept it open too. It was WHO who was slow to take action based on their knowledge from visits to Wuhan and their misguided confidence in China’s success in containing the spread. 27th Feb, Scott Morrison told us we were dealing with a pandemic. 11th March, WHO declared a pandemic.

Didn't want to add the following to my previous post, but found the following answer both interesting and alarming in relation to the UK border response on 12 March.

.
.
.

Asked why the United Kingdom hadn’t imposed a ban on flights from China last month, the country’s chief scientific officer Patrick Vallance said today: “We looked at it. Even if we stopped all flights and had a 95% reduction, the effect on the delay of the epidemic was only a day or two. And realistically we could get at best a 50% reduction. This has been born out, with the way the world works you cannot stop that unless everyone decides to do this at once.”


I’m just so pleased we are fortunate enough in Australia to have a thinking government in office at this time.
1st February, Australia stops inbound from China. China expresses disappointment, while the WHO is highly critical of the Morrison governments call.
The other mob would have been in lockstep with the WHO and Of course the result would have been unthinkable.

With all due respect, I think that’s a statement more based on your political leanings than fact. Ultimately, we will never know how “the other mob” would have managed the situation. They may have followed a similar route or been more or less aggressive. If we look at both history and liberal values, the libs have opted for smaller government influence and economically freer markets.

My own political leanings lean towards more of “centrist shrug” (little respect or interest in either sides narratives) but I do believe ScoMo got a bit lucky. Yes he shut down the border with China but seemed to be following his own lock step with the US as was again evidenced with Europe. The evidence says that the US and the UK caused our largest Overseas infeactions. Yet we didn’t shut our borders down to either of these key allies. My own opinion is that this was because of largely political and diplomatic reasons.

Secondly, he probably should have been more forceful in ensuring returned visitors self isolated and used some tracking techniques to ensure compliance. Again, I think this speaks to a small government agenda. Even today, we see the harder right factions protesting their independence against the tracking app although some labor powerbrokers also want measures to ensure confidentiality.

In this Covid-19 environment, what we are (rightly) seeing is that governments are moving away from political rhetoric and faction politics for the good of the people. I sincerely hope that while the disease is a terrible human and economic tragedy, that there are lessons on what governments should focus on.

I havent voted Labor since Keating, but I dont think that Albanese would have done any different (better or worse) than Scomo, because really at the end of the day they are acting on advice of government experts (The Australia political public serviceis a rock solid monolith that serves both parties) and they would be getting the same advice and probably making the same actions. I voted Lib but I wouldnt be particularly assigning praise although they havent done a bad job.

Where there would be probably a big difference is in the stimulus packages and payments and economic plans. We can never make a judgement really because we dont know what Labor would have done but of course they have been historically big spenders. Personally I have been very surprised at the generosity of the payments from the Libs in the spending of the stimulus packages. To me it seems too much, but we will never know really if itwas right or wrong because we dont know what would happen without it. Rudd spent 4.5% of GDP in 2008 to override the GFC and that took us 12 years to (almost) pay off. Morrison has committted more than 9% of GDP. Scary stuff.

I think Australians ARE lucky to have this political system. Its a LONG way from good, let alone perfect but whilst there are bitter divisions the difference between Lib & Lab is in gradations, not massive ideological chasms. In the US the polarity is massive and toxic. IMO both sides are responsible and its poisonous to society where of course most people are somewhere in the middle.

I think what we are seeing now that the dust is settling a little on the trauma of the virus, is that politics being politics, both sides are trying to make political gain from it. This will be the next wave of the virus. If you broadly distill the beliefs of each side of the political spectrum into Progressives (Larger Govt, Increased involvement of the State in Society, Universal Basic Income, reduction of power of large corporations) and conservatives (Smaller Govt, reduced involvement of the State in Society, Increased personal liberties) it is very clear to see that the situation with the crisis strongly benefits the Left. I think we will eventually see the Left of politics embracing the change and resisting the re-establishment of things as they were and you will see the right increasingly vocal and forceful in trying to get it re-established.

A Govt spending money especially on infrastructure which increases the productive capacity of the nation and therefore income, is actually a very good policy setting. Therefore running a budget deficit in this scenario is not bad at all despite what these conservative types attempt to spin.

I would agree with this in part, but the current stimulus doesnt include any infrastructure spending, because it takes too long to filter through (hopefully the crisis doesnt last long enough for large scale infrastructure projects to be created) and people cant get out to work anyway. It shouldnt even be called a ***stimulus*** package because it doesnt stimulate the economy because the economies doors are locked shut. We cant spend the money freely in the economy anyway. It should be termed a ***survival*** package.

The second part of your point is where I have the largest issue and yes it seems to be an ideological divide. I agree that a budget surplus isnt the be all and end all, particularly if the deficit is spent on infrastructure, but it also has to be considered that every budget deficit is increased debt. It comes from somewhere, we are not just printing more money, we need foreign nations to buy our debt (China usually) and we can not continually increase the debt because it degrades our currency and ultimately the Governments capacity to sell debt. At some stage you have to pay the piper. We havent had a surplus since Howard.

Ironic really conservatives with their ideology being forced by necessity to adopt interventionist policies to sustain the economy.

Lets be thankful we have had enough years of fiscal responsibility in order to provide the capacity to do what we are doing now. Time will tell if we can afford it.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I live in a conservative envronment (retirement village) in a very safe liberal seat.Just about everyone here including right wing liberal voters believe Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a disaster.Only one person i know thinks he is doing a good job and she also believes climate change is a scam and a commie plot.
American politics are so more divisive than what we are used to and hopefully we never descend to their level.I wouldnt have voted for either of their candidates at their last election as i didnt trust either even if i was eligable

I think a lot of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters have been duped in believing the country voted him in cos they were over the establishment, when I think the bigger reason was the abhorrent candidate the Dems ran with. One of the most unlikeable Presidential candidates in history. It was the quintessential turd sandwich and giant douche election.


This election choice coming up will be 15 shades of special as well.

Biden is that more likable than Hillary, they aren’t in the same universe. He actually shows genuine humility.


Agree with that. I think he comes across as a good and genuine bloke (providing he isnt a rapist). The Dems wont let him be genuine though and he is clearly losing his faculties.

As an outsider, I see the Dems as a large machine whereas I see the GOP as a large group of disparate individuals. I see both the Clintons as a symptom and representative of that machine, Pelosi, Schumer etc. Bernie was never allowed in. I see the fact that a nearly 80yo man losing his faculties is elevated by this machine as a very dangerous thing. Dem voters are not getting what they vote for.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters will get exactly what they vote for. He is not hiding the ball.

It is a rubbish choice. I think the world needs a good strong, ***unifying*** leader of the largest economy in the free world. It is unbelievably simple and easy. All they need to do, is provide a candidate who is sensible, moderate, doesnt say or do anything stupid and ***makes the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon***, then they win. The Dems have had 4 years to learn their lessons and they either havent learned them or they have an alternate agenda. To end up with Bernie or Biden as the last two candidates is mindblowingly stupid. Make the election about Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, you win. Give Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon a platform to rail against socialism (bernie) or dementia and you make the election about everything but him. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is an idiot but a great campaigner. If the election isnt about him, he wins.

The whole losing his faculties thing. Idk what that”s based off, probably cos he”s a gaffe machine, which he”s been for most of his political life. It’s who he is. When it’s someone in his 50’s, he’s poor with words; when he’s 77, he has dementia.

In no way do I believe he”s a perfect candidate. What they should done is gone with someone like Beto, someone the Dems could have gone hard Iin playing the youth card with. Maybe if Beto had a couple years more experience it might have gone that way. As it is, they have a candidate whose older than their opponent. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon really has benefitted from a lack of quality candidates on the Dems side. That said it’s still a winnable election.

 

[Tiger5150]

I live in a conservative envronment (retirement village) in a very safe liberal seat.Just about everyone here including right wing liberal voters believe Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a disaster.Only one person i know thinks he is doing a good job and she also believes climate change is a scam and a commie plot.
American politics are so more divisive than what we are used to and hopefully we never descend to their level.I wouldnt have voted for either of their candidates at their last election as i didnt trust either even if i was eligable

I think a lot of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters have been duped in believing the country voted him in cos they were over the establishment, when I think the bigger reason was the abhorrent candidate the Dems ran with. One of the most unlikeable Presidential candidates in history. It was the quintessential turd sandwich and giant douche election.


This election choice coming up will be 15 shades of special as well.

Biden is that more likable than Hillary, they aren’t in the same universe. He actually shows genuine humility.


Agree with that. I think he comes across as a good and genuine bloke (providing he isnt a rapist). The Dems wont let him be genuine though and he is clearly losing his faculties.

As an outsider, I see the Dems as a large machine whereas I see the GOP as a large group of disparate individuals. I see both the Clintons as a symptom and representative of that machine, Pelosi, Schumer etc. Bernie was never allowed in. I see the fact that a nearly 80yo man losing his faculties is elevated by this machine as a very dangerous thing. Dem voters are not getting what they vote for.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters will get exactly what they vote for. He is not hiding the ball.

It is a rubbish choice. I think the world needs a good strong, ***unifying*** leader of the largest economy in the free world. It is unbelievably simple and easy. All they need to do, is provide a candidate who is sensible, moderate, doesnt say or do anything stupid and ***makes the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon***, then they win. The Dems have had 4 years to learn their lessons and they either havent learned them or they have an alternate agenda. To end up with Bernie or Biden as the last two candidates is mindblowingly stupid. Make the election about Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, you win. Give Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon a platform to rail against socialism (bernie) or dementia and you make the election about everything but him. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is an idiot but a great campaigner. If the election isnt about him, he wins.

The whole losing his facilities thing. Idk what that”s based off, probably cos he”s a gaffe machine, which he”s been for most of his political life. It’s who he is. When it’s someone in his 50’s, he’s poor with words; when he’s 77, he has dementia.

In no way do I believe he”s a perfect candidate. What they should done is gone with someone like Beto, someone the Dems could have gone hard Iin playing the youth card with. Maybe if Beto had a couple years more experience it might have gone that way. As it is, they have a candidate whose older than their opponent. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon really has benefitted from a lack of quality candidates on the Dems side. That said it’s still a winnable election.

It was a rubbish collection of candidates. My pick would have been Tulsi, but she cant be owned and the machine wont have her.

It shouldnt be a "winnable" election, it should be an unloseable election. I cant believe that Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a chance but the Dems have made sure he is.

 

[Tiger5150]

I live in a conservative envronment (retirement village) in a very safe liberal seat.Just about everyone here including right wing liberal voters believe Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a disaster.Only one person i know thinks he is doing a good job and she also believes climate change is a scam and a commie plot.
American politics are so more divisive than what we are used to and hopefully we never descend to their level.I wouldnt have voted for either of their candidates at their last election as i didnt trust either even if i was eligable

I think a lot of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters have been duped in believing the country voted him in cos they were over the establishment, when I think the bigger reason was the abhorrent candidate the Dems ran with. One of the most unlikeable Presidential candidates in history. It was the quintessential turd sandwich and giant douche election.


This election choice coming up will be 15 shades of special as well.

Biden is that more likable than Hillary, they aren’t in the same universe. He actually shows genuine humility.


Agree with that. I think he comes across as a good and genuine bloke (providing he isnt a rapist). The Dems wont let him be genuine though and he is clearly losing his faculties.

As an outsider, I see the Dems as a large machine whereas I see the GOP as a large group of disparate individuals. I see both the Clintons as a symptom and representative of that machine, Pelosi, Schumer etc. Bernie was never allowed in. I see the fact that a nearly 80yo man losing his faculties is elevated by this machine as a very dangerous thing. Dem voters are not getting what they vote for.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters will get exactly what they vote for. He is not hiding the ball.

It is a rubbish choice. I think the world needs a good strong, ***unifying*** leader of the largest economy in the free world. It is unbelievably simple and easy. All they need to do, is provide a candidate who is sensible, moderate, doesnt say or do anything stupid and ***makes the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon***, then they win. The Dems have had 4 years to learn their lessons and they either havent learned them or they have an alternate agenda. To end up with Bernie or Biden as the last two candidates is mindblowingly stupid. Make the election about Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, you win. Give Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon a platform to rail against socialism (bernie) or dementia and you make the election about everything but him. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is an idiot but a great campaigner. If the election isnt about him, he wins.

I'm starting to think Bruce Lee never died ...he became 5150 ....fighting everyone over everything

Close, Im actually Russel Crowe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvu0Bm2kQFc

You call it fighting, I call it discussing both sides on an issue.....and you picked one of the few posts I made agreeing with someone here to make your point!

 

[Tiger5150]

I live in a conservative envronment (retirement village) in a very safe liberal seat.Just about everyone here including right wing liberal voters believe Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a disaster.Only one person i know thinks he is doing a good job and she also believes climate change is a scam and a commie plot.
American politics are so more divisive than what we are used to and hopefully we never descend to their level.I wouldnt have voted for either of their candidates at their last election as i didnt trust either even if i was eligable

I think a lot of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters have been duped in believing the country voted him in cos they were over the establishment, when I think the bigger reason was the abhorrent candidate the Dems ran with. One of the most unlikeable Presidential candidates in history. It was the quintessential turd sandwich and giant douche election.


This election choice coming up will be 15 shades of special as well.

Biden is that more likable than Hillary, they aren’t in the same universe. He actually shows genuine humility.


Agree with that. I think he comes across as a good and genuine bloke (providing he isnt a rapist). The Dems wont let him be genuine though and he is clearly losing his faculties.

As an outsider, I see the Dems as a large machine whereas I see the GOP as a large group of disparate individuals. I see both the Clintons as a symptom and representative of that machine, Pelosi, Schumer etc. Bernie was never allowed in. I see the fact that a nearly 80yo man losing his faculties is elevated by this machine as a very dangerous thing. Dem voters are not getting what they vote for.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters will get exactly what they vote for. He is not hiding the ball.

It is a rubbish choice. I think the world needs a good strong, ***unifying*** leader of the largest economy in the free world. It is unbelievably simple and easy. All they need to do, is provide a candidate who is sensible, moderate, doesnt say or do anything stupid and ***makes the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon***, then they win. The Dems have had 4 years to learn their lessons and they either havent learned them or they have an alternate agenda. To end up with Bernie or Biden as the last two candidates is mindblowingly stupid. Make the election about Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, you win. Give Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon a platform to rail against socialism (bernie) or dementia and you make the election about everything but him. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is an idiot but a great campaigner. If the election isnt about him, he wins.

The whole losing his faculties thing. Idk what that”s based off, probably cos he”s a gaffe machine, which he”s been for most of his political life. It’s who he is. When it’s someone in his 50’s, he’s poor with words; when he’s 77, he has dementia.

You may be right, but as you know politics is perception. If I type Joe Biden in my Youtube search, 8 of the 14 suggestions had something to do with brain, alzheimers, dementia or his son. AS soon as you are a meme, its done.

Beating Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon should be a walk in the park. Make it a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. This election will make the entire US public experts in Neurology and Hunter Biden. If that happens Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon wins and it will be the Dems that have shot themselves in the foot.

There are 350M people in the US, they couldnt find someone better than an 80yo man who at best is a "gaffe machine", more likely entering senility?

 

[happy_tiger]

I live in a conservative envronment (retirement village) in a very safe liberal seat.Just about everyone here including right wing liberal voters believe Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a disaster.Only one person i know thinks he is doing a good job and she also believes climate change is a scam and a commie plot.
American politics are so more divisive than what we are used to and hopefully we never descend to their level.I wouldnt have voted for either of their candidates at their last election as i didnt trust either even if i was eligable

I think a lot of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters have been duped in believing the country voted him in cos they were over the establishment, when I think the bigger reason was the abhorrent candidate the Dems ran with. One of the most unlikeable Presidential candidates in history. It was the quintessential turd sandwich and giant douche election.


This election choice coming up will be 15 shades of special as well.

Biden is that more likable than Hillary, they aren’t in the same universe. He actually shows genuine humility.


Agree with that. I think he comes across as a good and genuine bloke (providing he isnt a rapist). The Dems wont let him be genuine though and he is clearly losing his faculties.

As an outsider, I see the Dems as a large machine whereas I see the GOP as a large group of disparate individuals. I see both the Clintons as a symptom and representative of that machine, Pelosi, Schumer etc. Bernie was never allowed in. I see the fact that a nearly 80yo man losing his faculties is elevated by this machine as a very dangerous thing. Dem voters are not getting what they vote for.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters will get exactly what they vote for. He is not hiding the ball.

It is a rubbish choice. I think the world needs a good strong, ***unifying*** leader of the largest economy in the free world. It is unbelievably simple and easy. All they need to do, is provide a candidate who is sensible, moderate, doesnt say or do anything stupid and ***makes the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon***, then they win. The Dems have had 4 years to learn their lessons and they either havent learned them or they have an alternate agenda. To end up with Bernie or Biden as the last two candidates is mindblowingly stupid. Make the election about Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, you win. Give Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon a platform to rail against socialism (bernie) or dementia and you make the election about everything but him. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is an idiot but a great campaigner. If the election isnt about him, he wins.

I'm starting to think Bruce Lee never died ...he became 5150 ....fighting everyone over everything


Close, Im actually Russel Crowe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvu0Bm2kQFc

You call it fighting, I call it discussing both sides on an issue.....and you picked one of the few posts I made agreeing with someone here to make your point!

Tugger ...Craig Coleman perhaps lol

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I live in a conservative envronment (retirement village) in a very safe liberal seat.Just about everyone here including right wing liberal voters believe Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a disaster.Only one person i know thinks he is doing a good job and she also believes climate change is a scam and a commie plot.
American politics are so more divisive than what we are used to and hopefully we never descend to their level.I wouldnt have voted for either of their candidates at their last election as i didnt trust either even if i was eligable

I think a lot of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters have been duped in believing the country voted him in cos they were over the establishment, when I think the bigger reason was the abhorrent candidate the Dems ran with. One of the most unlikeable Presidential candidates in history. It was the quintessential turd sandwich and giant douche election.


This election choice coming up will be 15 shades of special as well.

Biden is that more likable than Hillary, they aren’t in the same universe. He actually shows genuine humility.


Agree with that. I think he comes across as a good and genuine bloke (providing he isnt a rapist). The Dems wont let him be genuine though and he is clearly losing his faculties.

As an outsider, I see the Dems as a large machine whereas I see the GOP as a large group of disparate individuals. I see both the Clintons as a symptom and representative of that machine, Pelosi, Schumer etc. Bernie was never allowed in. I see the fact that a nearly 80yo man losing his faculties is elevated by this machine as a very dangerous thing. Dem voters are not getting what they vote for.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters will get exactly what they vote for. He is not hiding the ball.

It is a rubbish choice. I think the world needs a good strong, ***unifying*** leader of the largest economy in the free world. It is unbelievably simple and easy. All they need to do, is provide a candidate who is sensible, moderate, doesnt say or do anything stupid and ***makes the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon***, then they win. The Dems have had 4 years to learn their lessons and they either havent learned them or they have an alternate agenda. To end up with Bernie or Biden as the last two candidates is mindblowingly stupid. Make the election about Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, you win. Give Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon a platform to rail against socialism (bernie) or dementia and you make the election about everything but him. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is an idiot but a great campaigner. If the election isnt about him, he wins.

The whole losing his faculties thing. Idk what that”s based off, probably cos he”s a gaffe machine, which he”s been for most of his political life. It’s who he is. When it’s someone in his 50’s, he’s poor with words; when he’s 77, he has dementia.


You may be right, but as you know politics is perception. If I type Joe Biden in my Youtube search, 8 of the 14 suggestions had something to do with brain, alzheimers, dementia or his son. AS soon as you are a meme, its done.

Beating Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon should be a walk in the park. Make it a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. This election will make the entire US public experts in Neurology and Hunter Biden. If that happens Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon wins and it will be the Dems that have shot themselves in the foot.

There are 350M people in the US, they couldnt find someone better than an 80yo man who at best is a "gaffe machine", more likely entering senility?

Like I said, not the best candidate, however he can win.

And you’re right, once the internet gets ahold of something, it catches fire and people will start believing, in a lot of cases without actually seeing for themselves. I feel it was a tactic started by the right to distract from their own man’s mental capacity, and i’ll give it to them, it worked.

 

[Tiger5150]

I live in a conservative envronment (retirement village) in a very safe liberal seat.Just about everyone here including right wing liberal voters believe Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a disaster.Only one person i know thinks he is doing a good job and she also believes climate change is a scam and a commie plot.
American politics are so more divisive than what we are used to and hopefully we never descend to their level.I wouldnt have voted for either of their candidates at their last election as i didnt trust either even if i was eligable

I think a lot of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters have been duped in believing the country voted him in cos they were over the establishment, when I think the bigger reason was the abhorrent candidate the Dems ran with. One of the most unlikeable Presidential candidates in history. It was the quintessential turd sandwich and giant douche election.


This election choice coming up will be 15 shades of special as well.

Biden is that more likable than Hillary, they aren’t in the same universe. He actually shows genuine humility.


Agree with that. I think he comes across as a good and genuine bloke (providing he isnt a rapist). The Dems wont let him be genuine though and he is clearly losing his faculties.

As an outsider, I see the Dems as a large machine whereas I see the GOP as a large group of disparate individuals. I see both the Clintons as a symptom and representative of that machine, Pelosi, Schumer etc. Bernie was never allowed in. I see the fact that a nearly 80yo man losing his faculties is elevated by this machine as a very dangerous thing. Dem voters are not getting what they vote for.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon voters will get exactly what they vote for. He is not hiding the ball.

It is a rubbish choice. I think the world needs a good strong, ***unifying*** leader of the largest economy in the free world. It is unbelievably simple and easy. All they need to do, is provide a candidate who is sensible, moderate, doesnt say or do anything stupid and ***makes the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon***, then they win. The Dems have had 4 years to learn their lessons and they either havent learned them or they have an alternate agenda. To end up with Bernie or Biden as the last two candidates is mindblowingly stupid. Make the election about Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon, you win. Give Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon a platform to rail against socialism (bernie) or dementia and you make the election about everything but him. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is an idiot but a great campaigner. If the election isnt about him, he wins.

The whole losing his faculties thing. Idk what that”s based off, probably cos he”s a gaffe machine, which he”s been for most of his political life. It’s who he is. When it’s someone in his 50’s, he’s poor with words; when he’s 77, he has dementia.


You may be right, but as you know politics is perception. If I type Joe Biden in my Youtube search, 8 of the 14 suggestions had something to do with brain, alzheimers, dementia or his son. AS soon as you are a meme, its done.

Beating Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon should be a walk in the park. Make it a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. This election will make the entire US public experts in Neurology and Hunter Biden. If that happens Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon wins and it will be the Dems that have shot themselves in the foot.

There are 350M people in the US, they couldnt find someone better than an 80yo man who at best is a "gaffe machine", more likely entering senility?

Like I said, not the best candidate, however he can win.

And you’re right, once the internet gets ahold of something, it catches fire and people will start believing, in a lot of cases without actually seeing for themselves. I feel it was a tactic started by the right to distract from their own man’s mental capacity, and i’ll give it to them, it worked.

Ockhams Razor. If it walks and talks like a duck, the bad men didnt make it a duck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve8kE4SXXTs

 

[Tim Sheens]

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is advocating for dissent and anarchy within the states and anyone that chooses to argue against this is either disingenuous or severely lacking education.

So anyone that doesnt agree with you is a liar or an idiot? That makes genuine discussion fun.

You are so binary FG, there is always a third way ;-)

Do you ACTUALLY think that Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon wants anarchy in the states? To what end? An armed insurrection? Genuinely interested.......you are clearly not lacking an education, please give us all the benefit of your full edumacated brain and tell me what you think Trumps end game is.


Even though you tried to shut down discussion on the topic but stating that anyone who doesnt share your narrow view on things is a liar or a moron, Im going to give my opinion anyway.

In my opinion, particularly in the US, politics has never been more polarised and the division in the US is enormous. BOTH sides IMO have been disgraceful for many years. Trumps recent tweets are clear examples of this, they are reckless and unproductive, but IMO they are symptomatic of the problem, not the problem.

As I say, the political divide in the US is enormous and poisonous and it has totally dissolved trust on both sides. I think what we are seeing now that the dust is settling a little on the trauma of the virus, is that politics being politics, both sides are trying to make political gain from it. This will be the next wave of the virus. If you broadly distill the beliefs of each side of the political spectrum into Progressives (Larger Govt, Increased involvement of the State in Society, Universal Basic Income, reduction of power of large corporations) and conservatives (Smaller Govt, reduced involvement of the State in Society, Increased personal liberties) it is very clear to see that the situation with the crisis strongly benefits the Left. I think we will are starting to see the Left of politics embracing the situation as tools of societal change and resisting the re-establishment of things as they were and we are seeing the right increasingly vocal and forceful in trying to get it re-established.

Yes there are three options, as per above and I think you lean too far to the disingenuous side. Whether Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon actually wants full on anarchy, I doubt it, but he is advocating for at least a portion of it.

He targets the last option, many of which were out on show this week, ones that bear arms and/or wear swastikas or confederate flags, and often further accessories with red caps. I hate the McConnell's, Graham's and Gaetz's of the party, particularly the former with his actions on court appointments, not to mention his own political back scratching for his local Lo'real deal as part of the last relief bill.

Don't go much on most of the establishment Democrats either as even they are not center, but they are a lot better than the vote blocking and gerrymandering Republicans that keep the minimum wage in many of their states at the disgusting waaay below poverty line of $7.25 an hour, that forces people to work more than one job. I don't go much on Cuomo either, but for mine he is closer to the middle and what the country needs to get back on track, as he is a capable leader that will likely be acceptable to a lot of the gop figures that also think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is the worst thing to happen to the country.

The country is in desperate need of societal realignment and taxation is the only way to provide any semblance of balance. It is disgusting that 3 people can have the combined wealth of half the nation. You don't like her, but AOC spells it out with her statement on billionaires, which is correct with virtually all of them, in that they don't make that amount of money, rather mast take it, often by paying wages more befitting developing nations with some workers at the worst end of the scale wearing diapers because they are not allowed toilet breaks.

Trickle down economics only works for the oligarchy.

 

[Tiger5150]

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is advocating for dissent and anarchy within the states and anyone that chooses to argue against this is either disingenuous or severely lacking education.

So anyone that doesnt agree with you is a liar or an idiot? That makes genuine discussion fun.

You are so binary FG, there is always a third way ;-)

Do you ACTUALLY think that Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon wants anarchy in the states? To what end? An armed insurrection? Genuinely interested.......you are clearly not lacking an education, please give us all the benefit of your full edumacated brain and tell me what you think Trumps end game is.


Even though you tried to shut down discussion on the topic but stating that anyone who doesnt share your narrow view on things is a liar or a moron, Im going to give my opinion anyway.

In my opinion, particularly in the US, politics has never been more polarised and the division in the US is enormous. BOTH sides IMO have been disgraceful for many years. Trumps recent tweets are clear examples of this, they are reckless and unproductive, but IMO they are symptomatic of the problem, not the problem.

As I say, the political divide in the US is enormous and poisonous and it has totally dissolved trust on both sides. I think what we are seeing now that the dust is settling a little on the trauma of the virus, is that politics being politics, both sides are trying to make political gain from it. This will be the next wave of the virus. If you broadly distill the beliefs of each side of the political spectrum into Progressives (Larger Govt, Increased involvement of the State in Society, Universal Basic Income, reduction of power of large corporations) and conservatives (Smaller Govt, reduced involvement of the State in Society, Increased personal liberties) it is very clear to see that the situation with the crisis strongly benefits the Left. I think we will are starting to see the Left of politics embracing the situation as tools of societal change and resisting the re-establishment of things as they were and we are seeing the right increasingly vocal and forceful in trying to get it re-established.

Yes there are three options, as per above and I think you lean too far to the disingenuous side. Whether Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon actually wants full on anarchy, I doubt it, but he is advocating for at least a portion of it.

He targets the last option, many of which were out on show this week, ones that bear arms and/or wear swastikas or confederate flags, and often further accessories with red caps. I hate the McConnell's, Graham's and Gaetz's of the party, particularly the former with his actions on court appointments, not to mention his own political back scratching for his local Lo'real deal as part of the last relief bill.

Don't go much on most of the establishment Democrats either as even they are not center, but they are a lot better than the vote blocking and gerrymandering Republicans that keep the minimum wage in many of their states at the disgusting waaay below poverty line of $7.25 an hour, that forces people to work more than one job. ***I don't go much on Cuomo either, but for mine he is closer to the middle and what the country needs to get back on track, as he is a capable leader that will likely be acceptable to a lot of the gop figures that also think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is the worst thing to happen to the country.***

The country is in desperate need of societal realignment and taxation is the only way to provide any semblance of balance. It is disgusting that 3 people can have the combined wealth of half the nation. You don't like her, but AOC spells it out with her statement on billionaires, which is correct with virtually all of them, in that they don't make that amount of money, rather mast take it, often by paying wages more befitting developing nations with some workers at the worst end of the scale wearing diapers because they are not allowed toilet breaks.

Trickle down economics only works for the oligarchy.

Formerguest, I genuinely say this with total respect. I pretty much totally disagree with almost everything you have said in this post, some of it I could not disagree with more and feel very strongly about but again with total respect, Im not going to argue with or counter because as you have set out your feelings and beliefs so clearly, it is clear to me that you and I have almost polar opposite politics and opinions (I am a free market capitalist/libertarian) and accordingly I really dont think there is any grey area that you and I can really civilly discuss.

I really do mean this with respect. In my view it doesnt mean you are right and I am wrong, or that I am right and you are wrong. That is the nature of politics and I respect your right to hold that opinion and that ideology. Im also guessing you are quite young.

Funnily enough I do totally agree with you on Cuomo. A stable, sensible, centrist candidate like that would walk it in. As I said in another post, all the Dems need to do is make the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and they win, they are doing everything they can to hand it back to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is advocating for dissent and anarchy within the states and anyone that chooses to argue against this is either disingenuous or severely lacking education.

So anyone that doesnt agree with you is a liar or an idiot? That makes genuine discussion fun.

You are so binary FG, there is always a third way ;-)

Do you ACTUALLY think that Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon wants anarchy in the states? To what end? An armed insurrection? Genuinely interested.......you are clearly not lacking an education, please give us all the benefit of your full edumacated brain and tell me what you think Trumps end game is.


Even though you tried to shut down discussion on the topic but stating that anyone who doesnt share your narrow view on things is a liar or a moron, Im going to give my opinion anyway.

In my opinion, particularly in the US, politics has never been more polarised and the division in the US is enormous. BOTH sides IMO have been disgraceful for many years. Trumps recent tweets are clear examples of this, they are reckless and unproductive, but IMO they are symptomatic of the problem, not the problem.

As I say, the political divide in the US is enormous and poisonous and it has totally dissolved trust on both sides. I think what we are seeing now that the dust is settling a little on the trauma of the virus, is that politics being politics, both sides are trying to make political gain from it. This will be the next wave of the virus. If you broadly distill the beliefs of each side of the political spectrum into Progressives (Larger Govt, Increased involvement of the State in Society, Universal Basic Income, reduction of power of large corporations) and conservatives (Smaller Govt, reduced involvement of the State in Society, Increased personal liberties) it is very clear to see that the situation with the crisis strongly benefits the Left. I think we will are starting to see the Left of politics embracing the situation as tools of societal change and resisting the re-establishment of things as they were and we are seeing the right increasingly vocal and forceful in trying to get it re-established.

Yes there are three options, as per above and I think you lean too far to the disingenuous side. Whether Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon actually wants full on anarchy, I doubt it, but he is advocating for at least a portion of it.

He targets the last option, many of which were out on show this week, ones that bear arms and/or wear swastikas or confederate flags, and often further accessories with red caps. I hate the McConnell's, Graham's and Gaetz's of the party, particularly the former with his actions on court appointments, not to mention his own political back scratching for his local Lo'real deal as part of the last relief bill.

Don't go much on most of the establishment Democrats either as even they are not center, but they are a lot better than the vote blocking and gerrymandering Republicans that keep the minimum wage in many of their states at the disgusting waaay below poverty line of $7.25 an hour, that forces people to work more than one job. ***I don't go much on Cuomo either, but for mine he is closer to the middle and what the country needs to get back on track, as he is a capable leader that will likely be acceptable to a lot of the gop figures that also think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is the worst thing to happen to the country.***

The country is in desperate need of societal realignment and taxation is the only way to provide any semblance of balance. It is disgusting that 3 people can have the combined wealth of half the nation. You don't like her, but AOC spells it out with her statement on billionaires, which is correct with virtually all of them, in that they don't make that amount of money, rather mast take it, often by paying wages more befitting developing nations with some workers at the worst end of the scale wearing diapers because they are not allowed toilet breaks.

Trickle down economics only works for the oligarchy.


Formerguest, I genuinely say this with total respect. I pretty much totally disagree with almost everything you have said in this post, some of it I could not disagree with more and feel very strongly about but again with total respect, Im not going to argue with or counter because as you have set out your feelings and beliefs so clearly, it is clear to me that you and I have almost polar opposite politics and opinions (I am a free market capitalist/libertarian) and accordingly I really dont think there is any grey area that you and I can really civilly discuss.

I really do mean this with respect. In my view it doesnt mean you are right and I am wrong, or that I am right and you are wrong. That is the nature of politics and I respect your right to hold that opinion and that ideology. Im also guessing you are quite young.

Funnily enough I do totally agree with you on Cuomo. A stable, sensible, centrist candidate like that would walk it in. As I said in another post, all the Dems need to do is make the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and they win, they are doing everything they can to hand it back to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.

I'm 54 years old, being a small business owner and consistent employer of a few for half of it, that grew up in a split voting home. One that watched and then voted as our reasonably balanced post WW2 developed capatalist world was turned , particularly under Thatcher and Reagan policy in the eighties as I was gaining an understanding, to now become the low marginal rate and tax haven version of today.

The contrast to that of our nation at that time was stark, but sadly, since then it has also been somewhat eroded.

If you can't agree that it is wrong for billionaires to make those monies on the back of paying employees the lowest wages that are way below the poverty line, nor that it is Republican states that allow it, then you are correct, we won't agree on much as it is in the opposite direction of my moral compass. One that has and will continue to vote against my personal interests.

It is like people around the world now clapping for those keeping countries afloat by serving, caring, cleaning and saving lives etcetera. It really is hollow and means bugger all if they don't then vote in officials with policies that will realign the disparity in our communities' models.

If not, they may as well be giving them the finger.

 

[Tiger5150]

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is advocating for dissent and anarchy within the states and anyone that chooses to argue against this is either disingenuous or severely lacking education.

So anyone that doesnt agree with you is a liar or an idiot? That makes genuine discussion fun.

You are so binary FG, there is always a third way ;-)

Do you ACTUALLY think that Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon wants anarchy in the states? To what end? An armed insurrection? Genuinely interested.......you are clearly not lacking an education, please give us all the benefit of your full edumacated brain and tell me what you think Trumps end game is.


Even though you tried to shut down discussion on the topic but stating that anyone who doesnt share your narrow view on things is a liar or a moron, Im going to give my opinion anyway.

In my opinion, particularly in the US, politics has never been more polarised and the division in the US is enormous. BOTH sides IMO have been disgraceful for many years. Trumps recent tweets are clear examples of this, they are reckless and unproductive, but IMO they are symptomatic of the problem, not the problem.

As I say, the political divide in the US is enormous and poisonous and it has totally dissolved trust on both sides. I think what we are seeing now that the dust is settling a little on the trauma of the virus, is that politics being politics, both sides are trying to make political gain from it. This will be the next wave of the virus. If you broadly distill the beliefs of each side of the political spectrum into Progressives (Larger Govt, Increased involvement of the State in Society, Universal Basic Income, reduction of power of large corporations) and conservatives (Smaller Govt, reduced involvement of the State in Society, Increased personal liberties) it is very clear to see that the situation with the crisis strongly benefits the Left. I think we will are starting to see the Left of politics embracing the situation as tools of societal change and resisting the re-establishment of things as they were and we are seeing the right increasingly vocal and forceful in trying to get it re-established.

Yes there are three options, as per above and I think you lean too far to the disingenuous side. Whether Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon actually wants full on anarchy, I doubt it, but he is advocating for at least a portion of it.

He targets the last option, many of which were out on show this week, ones that bear arms and/or wear swastikas or confederate flags, and often further accessories with red caps. I hate the McConnell's, Graham's and Gaetz's of the party, particularly the former with his actions on court appointments, not to mention his own political back scratching for his local Lo'real deal as part of the last relief bill.

Don't go much on most of the establishment Democrats either as even they are not center, but they are a lot better than the vote blocking and gerrymandering Republicans that keep the minimum wage in many of their states at the disgusting waaay below poverty line of $7.25 an hour, that forces people to work more than one job. ***I don't go much on Cuomo either, but for mine he is closer to the middle and what the country needs to get back on track, as he is a capable leader that will likely be acceptable to a lot of the gop figures that also think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is the worst thing to happen to the country.***

The country is in desperate need of societal realignment and taxation is the only way to provide any semblance of balance. It is disgusting that 3 people can have the combined wealth of half the nation. You don't like her, but AOC spells it out with her statement on billionaires, which is correct with virtually all of them, in that they don't make that amount of money, rather mast take it, often by paying wages more befitting developing nations with some workers at the worst end of the scale wearing diapers because they are not allowed toilet breaks.

Trickle down economics only works for the oligarchy.


Formerguest, I genuinely say this with total respect. I pretty much totally disagree with almost everything you have said in this post, some of it I could not disagree with more and feel very strongly about but again with total respect, Im not going to argue with or counter because as you have set out your feelings and beliefs so clearly, it is clear to me that you and I have almost polar opposite politics and opinions (I am a free market capitalist/libertarian) and accordingly I really dont think there is any grey area that you and I can really civilly discuss.

I really do mean this with respect. In my view it doesnt mean you are right and I am wrong, or that I am right and you are wrong. That is the nature of politics and I respect your right to hold that opinion and that ideology. Im also guessing you are quite young.

Funnily enough I do totally agree with you on Cuomo. A stable, sensible, centrist candidate like that would walk it in. As I said in another post, all the Dems need to do is make the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and they win, they are doing everything they can to hand it back to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.

I'm 54 years old, being a small business owner and consistent employer of a few for half of it, that grew up in a split voting home. One that watched and then voted as our reasonably balanced post WW2 developed capatalist world was turned , particularly under Thatcher and Reagan policy in the eighties as I was gaining an understanding, to now become the low marginal rate and tax haven version of today.

The contrast to that of our nation at that time was stark, but sadly, since then it has also been somewhat eroded.

Im not really keen to get into it too deeply because I respect your opinion but suspect that there will always be stark ideological differences between us.

In short, there have been mistakes made in capitalism and I agree that for example Thatchers reforms caused widespread pain and hardship throughout UK at the time. But the counter is that the UK had such a horrific industrial relations system at the time that their industry was crippled.

My general and overarching opinion is that free market capitalism has got us to where we are today and whilst you may romanticize post war Australia, the economy is immensely stronger today but very different. The middle class has grown exponentially since the post war years, basically everyone is in the middle now. IMO people have never historically had it so good and free market capitalism is what has got us here. Of course there are still things that could and should be done better.

If you can't agree that it is wrong for billionaires to make those monies on the back of paying employees the lowest wages that are way below the poverty line, nor that it is Republican states that allow it, then you are correct, we won't agree on much as it is in the opposite direction of my moral compass. One that has and will continue to vote against my personal interests.


Of course I agree that that is wrong, although I dont really know the extent of it or real data. I genuinely cede to your greater knowledge on it and agree that when and where that happens it is wrong. Happens in Australia as well of course but we offshore our cheap labour.

What I also think is wrong is systemic redistribution of wealth for the sake of it.

 

[twentyforty]

I live in a conservative envronment (retirement village) in a very safe liberal seat.Just about everyone here including right wing liberal voters believe Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is a disaster.Only one person i know thinks he is doing a good job and she also believes climate change is a scam and a commie plot.
American politics are so more divisive than what we are used to and hopefully we never descend to their level.I wouldnt have voted for either of their candidates at their last election as i didnt trust either even if i was eligable

I think a lot of Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters have been duped in believing the country voted him in cos they were over the establishment, when I think the bigger reason was the abhorrent candidate the Dems ran with. One of the most unlikeable Presidential candidates in history. It was the quintessential turd sandwich and giant douche election.


This election choice coming up will be 15 shades of special as well.

Biden is that more likable than Hillary, they aren’t in the same universe. He actually shows genuine humility.

I can’t wait to hear the Democrats new catchphrase??
Let me guess? “The place for an old white male is in the old White House “? Should be a hoot.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is advocating for dissent and anarchy within the states and anyone that chooses to argue against this is either disingenuous or severely lacking education.

So anyone that doesnt agree with you is a liar or an idiot? That makes genuine discussion fun.

You are so binary FG, there is always a third way ;-)

Do you ACTUALLY think that Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon wants anarchy in the states? To what end? An armed insurrection? Genuinely interested.......you are clearly not lacking an education, please give us all the benefit of your full edumacated brain and tell me what you think Trumps end game is.


Even though you tried to shut down discussion on the topic but stating that anyone who doesnt share your narrow view on things is a liar or a moron, Im going to give my opinion anyway.

In my opinion, particularly in the US, politics has never been more polarised and the division in the US is enormous. BOTH sides IMO have been disgraceful for many years. Trumps recent tweets are clear examples of this, they are reckless and unproductive, but IMO they are symptomatic of the problem, not the problem.

As I say, the political divide in the US is enormous and poisonous and it has totally dissolved trust on both sides. I think what we are seeing now that the dust is settling a little on the trauma of the virus, is that politics being politics, both sides are trying to make political gain from it. This will be the next wave of the virus. If you broadly distill the beliefs of each side of the political spectrum into Progressives (Larger Govt, Increased involvement of the State in Society, Universal Basic Income, reduction of power of large corporations) and conservatives (Smaller Govt, reduced involvement of the State in Society, Increased personal liberties) it is very clear to see that the situation with the crisis strongly benefits the Left. I think we will are starting to see the Left of politics embracing the situation as tools of societal change and resisting the re-establishment of things as they were and we are seeing the right increasingly vocal and forceful in trying to get it re-established.

Yes there are three options, as per above and I think you lean too far to the disingenuous side. Whether Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon actually wants full on anarchy, I doubt it, but he is advocating for at least a portion of it.

He targets the last option, many of which were out on show this week, ones that bear arms and/or wear swastikas or confederate flags, and often further accessories with red caps. I hate the McConnell's, Graham's and Gaetz's of the party, particularly the former with his actions on court appointments, not to mention his own political back scratching for his local Lo'real deal as part of the last relief bill.

Don't go much on most of the establishment Democrats either as even they are not center, but they are a lot better than the vote blocking and gerrymandering Republicans that keep the minimum wage in many of their states at the disgusting waaay below poverty line of $7.25 an hour, that forces people to work more than one job. ***I don't go much on Cuomo either, but for mine he is closer to the middle and what the country needs to get back on track, as he is a capable leader that will likely be acceptable to a lot of the gop figures that also think Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is the worst thing to happen to the country.***

The country is in desperate need of societal realignment and taxation is the only way to provide any semblance of balance. It is disgusting that 3 people can have the combined wealth of half the nation. You don't like her, but AOC spells it out with her statement on billionaires, which is correct with virtually all of them, in that they don't make that amount of money, rather mast take it, often by paying wages more befitting developing nations with some workers at the worst end of the scale wearing diapers because they are not allowed toilet breaks.

Trickle down economics only works for the oligarchy.


Formerguest, I genuinely say this with total respect. I pretty much totally disagree with almost everything you have said in this post, some of it I could not disagree with more and feel very strongly about but again with total respect, Im not going to argue with or counter because as you have set out your feelings and beliefs so clearly, it is clear to me that you and I have almost polar opposite politics and opinions (I am a free market capitalist/libertarian) and accordingly I really dont think there is any grey area that you and I can really civilly discuss.

I really do mean this with respect. In my view it doesnt mean you are right and I am wrong, or that I am right and you are wrong. That is the nature of politics and I respect your right to hold that opinion and that ideology. Im also guessing you are quite young.

Funnily enough I do totally agree with you on Cuomo. A stable, sensible, centrist candidate like that would walk it in. As I said in another post, all the Dems need to do is make the election a referendum on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and they win, they are doing everything they can to hand it back to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.

I'm 54 years old, being a small business owner and consistent employer of a few for half of it, that grew up in a split voting home. One that watched and then voted as our reasonably balanced post WW2 developed capatalist world was turned , particularly under Thatcher and Reagan policy in the eighties as I was gaining an understanding, to now become the low marginal rate and tax haven version of today.

The contrast to that of our nation at that time was stark, but sadly, since then it has also been somewhat eroded.

Im not really keen to get into it too deeply because I respect your opinion but suspect that there will always be stark ideological differences between us.

In short, there have been mistakes made in capitalism and I agree that for example Thatchers reforms caused widespread pain and hardship throughout UK at the time. But the counter is that the UK had such a horrific industrial relations system at the time that their industry was crippled.

My general and overarching opinion is that free market capitalism has got us to where we are today and whilst you may romanticize post war Australia, the economy is immensely stronger today but very different. The middle class has grown exponentially since the post war years, basically everyone is in the middle now. IMO people have never historically had it so good and free market capitalism is what has got us here. Of course there are still things that could and should be done better.

If you can't agree that it is wrong for billionaires to make those monies on the back of paying employees the lowest wages that are way below the poverty line, nor that it is Republican states that allow it, then you are correct, we won't agree on much as it is in the opposite direction of my moral compass. One that has and will continue to vote against my personal interests.


Of course I agree that that is wrong, although I dont really know the extent of it or real data. I genuinely cede to your greater knowledge on it and agree that when and where that happens it is wrong. Happens in Australia as well of course but we offshore our cheap labour.

What I also think is wrong is systemic redistribution of wealth for the sake of it.

Good, we can find some middle, if not totally common ground.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

politicians ??
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1251885814176518146?s=20

 

[colinbh]

The stable genius is at it again tweeting
LIBERATE MINNESOTA
LIBERATE MICHIGAN
LIBERATE VIRGINIA
I wasnt aware any foreign country had invaded them.Needless to say some nutjobs armed to the teeth are congregating in some states aparently thousands in Michigan.Many are white supremecists and Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters.All 3 of the states have democrat governors and are amongst the states that are NOT lifting the covid-19 restrictions.Needless to say the stable genius has made zero criticism of 2 republican states in Ohio and Utah who also refused to lift restrictions.
Certainly USA should consider itself on a war footing but the enemy is covid-19 and not the states who disagree with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.Using inflammatory language brings out the worst in people

Also pulled out the old chestnut about the second amendment being under attack. Cos you know, Obama had 8 years to take away people’s guns but didn’t.

He also tweeted how badly Obama/Biden failed cos 17k died under their watch during Ebola. No sense of irony.

Such grubby tactics yet again GNR...Totally unbalanced view once again.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon criticised Obama for not stopping people from infected countries coming into the USA.

Ebola was well known to be an incredibly dangerous and infectious disease.

COVID was and is, largely an unknown quantity, but despite that, the US borders are closed.

The world is the victim of a CCP coverup and YOU want to continue on this crusade against Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon? The one leader that stood up to China? The one leader looking to stop the raping and pillaging of our economies, our currencies, our resources, our food supply and our jobs? Oh that's right, the tax-payer covers your pay cheque...you'll get paid either way. Your utter disdain for the average citizen is just mind-boggling.

You should be utterly embarrassed and ashamed of yourself.

Good post.

There is no point talking to these clowns. They are haters, who have never got over 2016. Reason, facts, evidence mean nothing to them. If Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon found a cure for cancer they would say it wasn’t quick enough.

They parrot the looney left websites and the fake news channels. They sit in their underwear and spread their bile and hate about a man they don’t know, don’t like and has done more for America than any other president.

 

[Geo]

The stable genius is at it again tweeting
LIBERATE MINNESOTA
LIBERATE MICHIGAN
LIBERATE VIRGINIA
I wasnt aware any foreign country had invaded them.Needless to say some nutjobs armed to the teeth are congregating in some states aparently thousands in Michigan.Many are white supremecists and Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters.All 3 of the states have democrat governors and are amongst the states that are NOT lifting the covid-19 restrictions.Needless to say the stable genius has made zero criticism of 2 republican states in Ohio and Utah who also refused to lift restrictions.
Certainly USA should consider itself on a war footing but the enemy is covid-19 and not the states who disagree with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.Using inflammatory language brings out the worst in people

Also pulled out the old chestnut about the second amendment being under attack. Cos you know, Obama had 8 years to take away people’s guns but didn’t.

He also tweeted how badly Obama/Biden failed cos 17k died under their watch during Ebola. No sense of irony.

Such grubby tactics yet again GNR...Totally unbalanced view once again.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon criticised Obama for not stopping people from infected countries coming into the USA.

Ebola was well known to be an incredibly dangerous and infectious disease.

COVID was and is, largely an unknown quantity, but despite that, the US borders are closed.

The world is the victim of a CCP coverup and YOU want to continue on this crusade against Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon? The one leader that stood up to China? The one leader looking to stop the raping and pillaging of our economies, our currencies, our resources, our food supply and our jobs? Oh that's right, the tax-payer covers your pay cheque...you'll get paid either way. Your utter disdain for the average citizen is just mind-boggling.

You should be utterly embarrassed and ashamed of yourself.


Good post.

There is no point talking to these clowns. They are haters, who have never got over 2016. Reason, facts, evidence mean nothing to them. If Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon found a cure for cancer they would say it wasn’t quick enough.

They parrot the looney left websites and the fake news channels. They sit in their underwear and spread their bile and hate about a man they don’t know, don’t like and has done more for America than any other president.

Even Abraham Lincoln..?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

The stable genius is at it again tweeting
LIBERATE MINNESOTA
LIBERATE MICHIGAN
LIBERATE VIRGINIA
I wasnt aware any foreign country had invaded them.Needless to say some nutjobs armed to the teeth are congregating in some states aparently thousands in Michigan.Many are white supremecists and Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters.All 3 of the states have democrat governors and are amongst the states that are NOT lifting the covid-19 restrictions.Needless to say the stable genius has made zero criticism of 2 republican states in Ohio and Utah who also refused to lift restrictions.
Certainly USA should consider itself on a war footing but the enemy is covid-19 and not the states who disagree with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.Using inflammatory language brings out the worst in people

Also pulled out the old chestnut about the second amendment being under attack. Cos you know, Obama had 8 years to take away people’s guns but didn’t.

He also tweeted how badly Obama/Biden failed cos 17k died under their watch during Ebola. No sense of irony.

Such grubby tactics yet again GNR...Totally unbalanced view once again.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon criticised Obama for not stopping people from infected countries coming into the USA.

Ebola was well known to be an incredibly dangerous and infectious disease.

COVID was and is, largely an unknown quantity, but despite that, the US borders are closed.

The world is the victim of a CCP coverup and YOU want to continue on this crusade against Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon? The one leader that stood up to China? The one leader looking to stop the raping and pillaging of our economies, our currencies, our resources, our food supply and our jobs? Oh that's right, the tax-payer covers your pay cheque...you'll get paid either way. Your utter disdain for the average citizen is just mind-boggling.

You should be utterly embarrassed and ashamed of yourself.


Good post.

There is no point talking to these clowns. They are haters, who have never got over 2016. Reason, facts, evidence mean nothing to them. If Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon found a cure for cancer they would say it wasn’t quick enough.

They parrot the looney left websites and the fake news channels. They sit in their underwear and spread their bile and hate about a man they don’t know, don’t like and has done more for America than any other president.

Lincoln, Washington, FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, JFK & Eisenhower all say hello you lemming.

 

[Geo]

The stable genius is at it again tweeting
LIBERATE MINNESOTA
LIBERATE MICHIGAN
LIBERATE VIRGINIA
I wasnt aware any foreign country had invaded them.Needless to say some nutjobs armed to the teeth are congregating in some states aparently thousands in Michigan.Many are white supremecists and Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporters.All 3 of the states have democrat governors and are amongst the states that are NOT lifting the covid-19 restrictions.Needless to say the stable genius has made zero criticism of 2 republican states in Ohio and Utah who also refused to lift restrictions.
Certainly USA should consider itself on a war footing but the enemy is covid-19 and not the states who disagree with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.Using inflammatory language brings out the worst in people

Also pulled out the old chestnut about the second amendment being under attack. Cos you know, Obama had 8 years to take away people’s guns but didn’t.

He also tweeted how badly Obama/Biden failed cos 17k died under their watch during Ebola. No sense of irony.

Such grubby tactics yet again GNR...Totally unbalanced view once again.

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon criticised Obama for not stopping people from infected countries coming into the USA.

Ebola was well known to be an incredibly dangerous and infectious disease.

COVID was and is, largely an unknown quantity, but despite that, the US borders are closed.

The world is the victim of a CCP coverup and YOU want to continue on this crusade against Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon? The one leader that stood up to China? The one leader looking to stop the raping and pillaging of our economies, our currencies, our resources, our food supply and our jobs? Oh that's right, the tax-payer covers your pay cheque...you'll get paid either way. Your utter disdain for the average citizen is just mind-boggling.

You should be utterly embarrassed and ashamed of yourself.


Good post.

There is no point talking to these clowns. They are haters, who have never got over 2016. Reason, facts, evidence mean nothing to them. If Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon found a cure for cancer they would say it wasn’t quick enough.

They parrot the looney left websites and the fake news channels. They sit in their underwear and spread their bile and hate about a man they don’t know, don’t like and has done more for America than any other president.

Lincoln, Washington, FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, JFK & Eisenhower all say hello you lemming.

Mt Rushmore needs a refurb....