Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[TillLindemann]

Cannot recall an example of that on here

Just yesterday I posted a link to a BBC article on Chinese tech companies developing surveillance technology designed to pick out people of a particular race (Uighurs) and noted that many Uighurs are already in concentration camps. This was called "Whattaboutery", because apparently Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is all we are allowed to discuss.

By the pure racism and cultural chauvinism that drives them, and by their scale, the concentration camp system and slave labour program in western China targeting Uighurs, Tibetans and other groups should be the biggest news story in the world, but it barely rates a mention.

**I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.**

It might have something to do with who is providing the evidence to back all these claims. You wouldn't trust a Sepo intelligence(oxymoron) report if your life depended on it. Constant smoke & mirrors spewing out of their mouths.

But I do agree they're cracking down hard on several minorities in Xinjiang. It really ramped up following the Urumqi attack and Kunming stabbings both in 2014, which were done by East Turkestan separatists. That was the line in the sand for the Chinese gov't.

Having visited Urumqi back in 2018 I can say that the place is modernizing at a rapid rate. And those supposed "Concentration camps" that people go on about are really just Tafe like institutes where the minorities go to learn various trade skills. Some oppose it of course, considering it's basically conscription, but most end up getting a job afterwards or starting their own business.

And the total number of people who have gone through these institutes since around 2014 is probably close to about 250,000 - 300,000. Nothing like the figures I read about last year. I remember some article said upwards of 1,000,000 currently in concentration camps(I don't think many consider the logistics required to house that many people at once, absolutely laughable).

In saying all that, the only info I can provide is stuff I've seen with my own eyes. And it's a far cry from the exaggerated nonsense you read in our newspapers and on social media...

'It's just like TAFE'


 

[Aesopian]

Cannot recall an example of that on here

Just yesterday I posted a link to a BBC article on Chinese tech companies developing surveillance technology designed to pick out people of a particular race (Uighurs) and noted that many Uighurs are already in concentration camps. This was called "Whattaboutery", because apparently Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is all we are allowed to discuss.

By the pure racism and cultural chauvinism that drives them, and by their scale, the concentration camp system and slave labour program in western China targeting Uighurs, Tibetans and other groups should be the biggest news story in the world, but it barely rates a mention.

**I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.**

It might have something to do with who is providing the evidence to back all these claims. You wouldn't trust a Sepo intelligence(oxymoron) report if your life depended on it. Constant smoke & mirrors spewing out of their mouths.

But I do agree they're cracking down hard on several minorities in Xinjiang. It really ramped up following the Urumqi attack and Kunming stabbings both in 2014, which were done by East Turkestan separatists. That was the line in the sand for the Chinese gov't.

Having visited Urumqi back in 2018 I can say that the place is modernizing at a rapid rate. And those supposed "Concentration camps" that people go on about are really just Tafe like institutes where the minorities go to learn various trade skills. Some oppose it of course, considering it's basically conscription, but most end up getting a job afterwards or starting their own business.

And the total number of people who have gone through these institutes since around 2014 is probably close to about 250,000 - 300,000. Nothing like the figures I read about last year. I remember some article said upwards of 1,000,000 currently in concentration camps(I don't think many consider the logistics required to house that many people at once, absolutely laughable).

In saying all that, the only info I can provide is stuff I've seen with my own eyes. And it's a far cry from the exaggerated nonsense you read in our newspapers and on social media...

'It's just like TAFE'


This may be a hard concept for some like you to consider but do you realise China has prisons and detention facilities just like we do? And education facilities(you refer to them as concentration camps) are separate from the other two.

And that East Turkestan Separatist groups were officially declared terror organisations following the attacks in 2014.
Just imagine if we had a train station stabbing attack where 30-40 people were killed and 150+ injured. Organised and planned by a muslim minority group. What would Australia's reaction be huh?

Another thing to ponder is why won't any muslim majority country criticise china on these allegations? Why is it only coming from western powers?

 

[TillLindemann]

Cannot recall an example of that on here

Just yesterday I posted a link to a BBC article on Chinese tech companies developing surveillance technology designed to pick out people of a particular race (Uighurs) and noted that many Uighurs are already in concentration camps. This was called "Whattaboutery", because apparently Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is all we are allowed to discuss.

By the pure racism and cultural chauvinism that drives them, and by their scale, the concentration camp system and slave labour program in western China targeting Uighurs, Tibetans and other groups should be the biggest news story in the world, but it barely rates a mention.

**I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.**

It might have something to do with who is providing the evidence to back all these claims. You wouldn't trust a Sepo intelligence(oxymoron) report if your life depended on it. Constant smoke & mirrors spewing out of their mouths.

But I do agree they're cracking down hard on several minorities in Xinjiang. It really ramped up following the Urumqi attack and Kunming stabbings both in 2014, which were done by East Turkestan separatists. That was the line in the sand for the Chinese gov't.

Having visited Urumqi back in 2018 I can say that the place is modernizing at a rapid rate. And those supposed "Concentration camps" that people go on about are really just Tafe like institutes where the minorities go to learn various trade skills. Some oppose it of course, considering it's basically conscription, but most end up getting a job afterwards or starting their own business.

And the total number of people who have gone through these institutes since around 2014 is probably close to about 250,000 - 300,000. Nothing like the figures I read about last year. I remember some article said upwards of 1,000,000 currently in concentration camps(I don't think many consider the logistics required to house that many people at once, absolutely laughable).

In saying all that, the only info I can provide is stuff I've seen with my own eyes. And it's a far cry from the exaggerated nonsense you read in our newspapers and on social media...

'It's just like TAFE'


Did you take that photo?

No I didn't. Are you suggesting it is fake? It was used by Human Rights Watch.
I didn't personally take this one either


The program of forcing particular ethnic minorities into camps or forced labour (otherwise known as *slavery*), and brainwashed out of their own culture, particularly Uighurs and Tibetans, is well documented.

 

[TillLindemann]

@formerguest even though it probably seems like I often have a go at you on this thread, I do really respect your posts, you clearly know what you're talking about.

I think I come across more arrogant and combative than I intend.

 

[TillLindemann]

Just imagine if we had a train station stabbing attack where 30-40 people were killed and 150+ injured. Organised and planned by a muslim minority group. What would Australia’s reaction be huh?

I'd say Australia's reaction would be to do raids on whoever carried it out and goal them, and offer 'thoughts and prayers', rather than round up an entire ethnic group and herd them into camps or forced labour.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Cannot recall an example of that on here

Just yesterday I posted a link to a BBC article on Chinese tech companies developing surveillance technology designed to pick out people of a particular race (Uighurs) and noted that many Uighurs are already in concentration camps. This was called "Whattaboutery", because apparently Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is all we are allowed to discuss.

By the pure racism and cultural chauvinism that drives them, and by their scale, the concentration camp system and slave labour program in western China targeting Uighurs, Tibetans and other groups should be the biggest news story in the world, but it barely rates a mention.

**I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.**

It might have something to do with who is providing the evidence to back all these claims. You wouldn't trust a Sepo intelligence(oxymoron) report if your life depended on it. Constant smoke & mirrors spewing out of their mouths.

But I do agree they're cracking down hard on several minorities in Xinjiang. It really ramped up following the Urumqi attack and Kunming stabbings both in 2014, which were done by East Turkestan separatists. That was the line in the sand for the Chinese gov't.

Having visited Urumqi back in 2018 I can say that the place is modernizing at a rapid rate. And those supposed "Concentration camps" that people go on about are really just Tafe like institutes where the minorities go to learn various trade skills. Some oppose it of course, considering it's basically conscription, but most end up getting a job afterwards or starting their own business.

And the total number of people who have gone through these institutes since around 2014 is probably close to about 250,000 - 300,000. Nothing like the figures I read about last year. I remember some article said upwards of 1,000,000 currently in concentration camps(I don't think many consider the logistics required to house that many people at once, absolutely laughable).

In saying all that, the only info I can provide is stuff I've seen with my own eyes. And it's a far cry from the exaggerated nonsense you read in our newspapers and on social media...

'It's just like TAFE'


I don't know... Looks a lot like the the refrigeration trade section at Ultimo TAFE.

 

[mike]

——-
Every Republican now calling for unity is like the abusive husband who beats their wife for 4 years, and then, when he’s finally arrested, says, “Baby, if you don’t press charges we can make this work.”
——

 

[Tim Sheens]

——-
Every Republican now calling for unity is like the abusive husband who beats their wife for 4 years, and then, when he’s finally arrested, says, “Baby, if you don’t press charges we can make this work.”
——

My thoughts on what is to come is that I would force the Republicans in the Senate to make a decision on Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. They either vote to obtain the two thirds majority and find the charge, even if at the minimum of 17 of their number voting for it to carry, else they will not put forward the motion to disqualify him from holding office.

That leaves the party to have to deal with further destruction by Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and make no bones about it, he is now damaged goods, with him and his minions having gone way too far for many millions that voted for him two months ago. It is time for them to seal the divorce.

 

[Tiger5150]

Cannot recall an example of that on here

Just yesterday I posted a link to a BBC article on Chinese tech companies developing surveillance technology designed to pick out people of a particular race (Uighurs) and noted that many Uighurs are already in concentration camps. This was called "Whattaboutery", because apparently Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is all we are allowed to discuss.

By the pure racism and cultural chauvinism that drives them, and by their scale, the concentration camp system and slave labour program in western China targeting Uighurs, Tibetans and other groups should be the biggest news story in the world, but it barely rates a mention.

**I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.**

It might have something to do with who is providing the evidence to back all these claims. You wouldn't trust a Sepo intelligence(oxymoron) report if your life depended on it. Constant smoke & mirrors spewing out of their mouths.

But I do agree they're cracking down hard on several minorities in Xinjiang. It really ramped up following the Urumqi attack and Kunming stabbings both in 2014, which were done by East Turkestan separatists. That was the line in the sand for the Chinese gov't.

Having visited Urumqi back in 2018 I can say that the place is modernizing at a rapid rate. And those supposed "Concentration camps" that people go on about are really just Tafe like institutes where the minorities go to learn various trade skills. Some oppose it of course, considering it's basically conscription, but most end up getting a job afterwards or starting their own business.

And the total number of people who have gone through these institutes since around 2014 is probably close to about 250,000 - 300,000. Nothing like the figures I read about last year. I remember some article said upwards of 1,000,000 currently in concentration camps(I don't think many consider the logistics required to house that many people at once, absolutely laughable).

In saying all that, the only info I can provide is stuff I've seen with my own eyes. And it's a far cry from the exaggerated nonsense you read in our newspapers and on social media...

'It's just like TAFE'


Just imagine if we had a train station stabbing attack where 30-40 people were killed and 150+ injured. Organised and planned by a muslim minority group. What would Australia's reaction be huh?


Um, the police would track down those responsible, they would be tried fairly, with competent representation and a fair judicial process. At the end of which if found guilty they would be incarcerated in a detention facility that has complete transparency and no human rights issues.

I tell you what wouldnt happen. Those muslim minorities would not be routinely rounded up and taken anywhere, detention, re-education or even TAFE. Only the guilty.

Your point being?

 

[FinestTigers]

Cannot recall an example of that on here

Just yesterday I posted a link to a BBC article on Chinese tech companies developing surveillance technology designed to pick out people of a particular race (Uighurs) and noted that many Uighurs are already in concentration camps. This was called "Whattaboutery", because apparently Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is all we are allowed to discuss.

By the pure racism and cultural chauvinism that drives them, and by their scale, the concentration camp system and slave labour program in western China targeting Uighurs, Tibetans and other groups should be the biggest news story in the world, but it barely rates a mention.

**I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.**

It might have something to do with who is providing the evidence to back all these claims. You wouldn't trust a Sepo intelligence(oxymoron) report if your life depended on it. Constant smoke & mirrors spewing out of their mouths.

But I do agree they're cracking down hard on several minorities in Xinjiang. It really ramped up following the Urumqi attack and Kunming stabbings both in 2014, which were done by East Turkestan separatists. That was the line in the sand for the Chinese gov't.

Having visited Urumqi back in 2018 I can say that the place is modernizing at a rapid rate. And those supposed "Concentration camps" that people go on about are really just Tafe like institutes where the minorities go to learn various trade skills. Some oppose it of course, considering it's basically conscription, but most end up getting a job afterwards or starting their own business.

And the total number of people who have gone through these institutes since around 2014 is probably close to about 250,000 - 300,000. Nothing like the figures I read about last year. I remember some article said upwards of 1,000,000 currently in concentration camps(I don't think many consider the logistics required to house that many people at once, absolutely laughable).

In saying all that, the only info I can provide is stuff I've seen with my own eyes. And it's a far cry from the exaggerated nonsense you read in our newspapers and on social media...

'It's just like TAFE'



Just imagine if we had a train station stabbing attack where 30-40 people were killed and 150+ injured. Organised and planned by a muslim minority group. What would Australia's reaction be huh?


Um, the police would track down those responsible, they would be tried fairly, with competent representation and a fair judicial process. At the end of which if found guilty they would be incarcerated in a detention facility that has complete transparency and no human rights issues.

I tell you what wouldnt happen. Those muslim minorities would not be routinely rounded up and taken anywhere, detention, re-education or even TAFE. Only the guilty.

Your point being?

Whatever the hell that their called it doesn't matter, if they are guilty they will alwsys be known as criminals.

 

[happy_tiger]

So if Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is Impeached does is it also mean he is forced to live in Georgia

 

[TrueTiger]

Everybody is so overly pleased with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon being impeached by the left as well as some of his own....but while your salivating on your leftist doctrines,why dont you realise what real damage and future elects will have to face with the impeachment going ahead...it basically sets a precedent for future polititians to manipulate the constitution if they get together and rally support....

May as well try and write a new set of rules for the next gen of social media and journalists to blacken whoever they choose..welcome to the new world of denegration....

Before you all get up in arms ,I dont care what happens to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon,neither do I care what happens to Biden and Camel harris...

If they all did the right thing by the people and country instead of themselves it would be a far better world to live in....

This crap has been going on for years in many countries....its politics ....

 

[mikey]

Cannot recall an example of that on here

Just yesterday I posted a link to a BBC article on Chinese tech companies developing surveillance technology designed to pick out people of a particular race (Uighurs) and noted that many Uighurs are already in concentration camps. This was called "Whattaboutery", because apparently Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon is all we are allowed to discuss.

By the pure racism and cultural chauvinism that drives them, and by their scale, the concentration camp system and slave labour program in western China targeting Uighurs, Tibetans and other groups should be the biggest news story in the world, but it barely rates a mention.

**I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.**

It might have something to do with who is providing the evidence to back all these claims. You wouldn't trust a Sepo intelligence(oxymoron) report if your life depended on it. Constant smoke & mirrors spewing out of their mouths.

But I do agree they're cracking down hard on several minorities in Xinjiang. It really ramped up following the Urumqi attack and Kunming stabbings both in 2014, which were done by East Turkestan separatists. That was the line in the sand for the Chinese gov't.

Having visited Urumqi back in 2018 I can say that the place is modernizing at a rapid rate. And those supposed "Concentration camps" that people go on about are really just Tafe like institutes where the minorities go to learn various trade skills. Some oppose it of course, considering it's basically conscription, but most end up getting a job afterwards or starting their own business.

And the total number of people who have gone through these institutes since around 2014 is probably close to about 250,000 - 300,000. Nothing like the figures I read about last year. I remember some article said upwards of 1,000,000 currently in concentration camps(I don't think many consider the logistics required to house that many people at once, absolutely laughable).

In saying all that, the only info I can provide is stuff I've seen with my own eyes. And it's a far cry from the exaggerated nonsense you read in our newspapers and on social media...

It's interesting what you have observed but was that on a tour with an officially-sanctioned guide as most people have to employ when they go to China?
I'm not denying that things get exaggerated by the press but they're not going to let you see anything they don't want you to.

Not a tour. Was visiting a chick I met in Hong Kong about a year earlier. Didn't quite work out, could barely understand each other lol...
And I've been to China around 20 times since 2005. All over the place. Not once have I had to have a sanctioned guide with me.

Urumqi is a big city. No restrictions on tourists besides getting a Visa. Can't say if more remote areas of Xinjiang have a no tourist policy(most likely there are plenty)...

Thanks for giving more detail. Been there in regards to that going a long way for things not to work out 🙂
We've been investigating doing a lengthy motorcycle ride in China but all the websites specify having a guide a.k.a party official to do so. Maybe they think people using public transport won't get up to no good 🙂

 

[mikey]

I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.

It's the filthy lure of profit by international corporations and the unwillingness to take on the Chinese monster that has awoken.
The intention of bringing China into the international fold by trading with them and developing their economy was a good one but no government really realised that Chinese officialdom is extremely right-wing, nationalistic and still thinks like the Colonial powers did.
Having said that, I have worked with thousands of Chinese international students over many years. The majority are lovely people and they have become more internationalised over the years - initially you couldn't say anything critical of China but these days they are much more willing to be critical themsleves - they will hopefully one day bring real change to the way their government works.

 

[jadtiger]

I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.

It's the filthy lure of profit by international corporations and the unwillingness to take on the Chinese monster that has awoken.
The intention of bringing China into the international fold by trading with them and developing their economy was a good one but no government really realised that Chinese officialdom is extremely right-wing, nationalistic and still thinks like the Colonial powers did.
Having said that, I have worked with thousands of Chinese international students over many years. The majority are lovely people and they have become more internationalised over the years - initially you couldn't say anything critical of China but these days they are much more willing to be critical themsleves - they will hopefully one day bring real change to the way their government works.

i doubt that change will happen in my lifetime but i also never thought i would see the end of the iron curtain and communism in what was the Soviet Union or an American president be impeached twice.

 

[mikey]

I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.

It's the filthy lure of profit by international corporations and the unwillingness to take on the Chinese monster that has awoken.
The intention of bringing China into the international fold by trading with them and developing their economy was a good one but no government really realised that Chinese officialdom is extremely right-wing, nationalistic and still thinks like the Colonial powers did.
Having said that, I have worked with thousands of Chinese international students over many years. The majority are lovely people and they have become more internationalised over the years - initially you couldn't say anything critical of China but these days they are much more willing to be critical themsleves - they will hopefully one day bring real change to the way their government works.



i doubt that change will happen in my lifetime but i also never thought i would see the end of the iron curtain and communism in what was the Soviet Union or an American president be impeached twice.

No doubt we will never live to see it but you can hope.

 

[TillLindemann]

The BBC has published an interesting article today on the backstory to its reporting on Uighur forced labour in Xinjiang - the harassment they face from Chinese security forces, their being forced to delete footage etc - and responding to CCP attempts to discredit their reporting as 'fake news'. Ironically, the CCP does this through social media platforms that they ban within their own country.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55666153

And here as context, is some of their thorough analysis of the camps that some people pretend don't exist, or are nothing more than TAFE equivalents:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps

They have since done many follow ups, but the above is an important starting point.

 

[Tiger5150]

I do not have the answer as to why the world looks the other way when it comes to China, while obsessively scrutinising every event that takes place in the US.

It's the filthy lure of profit by international corporations and the unwillingness to take on the Chinese monster that has awoken.
The intention of bringing China into the international fold by trading with them and developing their economy was a good one but no government really realised that ***Chinese officialdom is extremely right-wing***, nationalistic and still thinks like the Colonial powers did.
Having said that, I have worked with thousands of Chinese international students over many years. The majority are lovely people and they have become more internationalised over the years - initially you couldn't say anything critical of China but these days they are much more willing to be critical themsleves - they will hopefully one day bring real change to the way their government works.

I dont think right wing means what you think it means. Politically right wing is defined as limited and small government, prioritising individualism over the the collective, demand economy not command economy. The CCP is basically the opposite of all of these things.They are as it states on the label. Communists.

What I dont think is discussed as much is what would happen if somehow Communism collapsed in China and they were able to fully embrace Capitalism? IMO, as much as we think China is dominant now globally they would explode globally under capitalism but in a more benign and beneficial way for the rest of the world without the central control.

 

[Tim Sheens]

The BBC has published an interesting article today on the backstory to its reporting on Uighur forced labour in Xinjiang - the harassment they face from Chinese security forces, their being forced to delete footage etc - and responding to CCP attempts to discredit their reporting as 'fake news'. Ironically, the CCP does this through social media platforms that they ban within their own country.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55666153

And here as context, is some of their thorough analysis of the camps that some people pretend don't exist, or are nothing more than TAFE equivalents:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps

They have since done many follow ups, but the above is an important starting point.

Similar stories from our own ABC correspondents and investigative journalists over there in recent years and a couple of ours even had to find the safety of our embassy to be repatriated.

Whilst not on anywhere near the same scale, this current Australian government has been built on a footing of secrecy, lack of transparency and obfuscation from basically the moment that they came into power. Scott Morrison is the architect of it as well, beginning with "on water matters" and just like the Chinese, keeping reporters away from the truth both administratively and on the ground.

Others are a lot worse, but we must not look past our own government continually putting more and more things behind the closet door, particularly whilst they are advocating for transparency elsewhere.

A lot of us want those in Hong Kong, on the mainland and adjacent, plus the Assange's, Snowden's and Manning's etcetera to be free from their political hunters, though we have our own whistle-blowers, both serving and civilian under threat of prison here.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Everybody is so overly pleased with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon being impeached by the left as well as some of his own....but while your salivating on your leftist doctrines,why dont you realise what real damage and future elects will have to face with the impeachment going ahead...it basically sets a precedent for future polititians to manipulate the constitution if they get together and rally support....

May as well try and write a new set of rules for the next gen of social media and journalists to blacken whoever they choose..welcome to the new world of denegration....

Before you all get up in arms ,I dont care what happens to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon,neither do I care what happens to Biden and Camel harris...

If they all did the right thing by the people and country instead of themselves it would be a far better world to live in....

This crap has been going on for years in many countries....its politics ....

What ? Umm... that’s literally day to day on capital hill/ Parliament House . How do you think anything happens ever ? It’s all manipulation , bull crap , backstabbing , skullduggery , bribes , sexual favours etc . Your making out like this is something new ? That politics , except you don’t have a dude from a segment for robbing old ladies of today tonight , running the free world anymore .