@tilllindemann said in [Politics Super Thread \- keep it all in here](/post/1295154) said:
My biggest disappointment of the last 24 hours in the US is that Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon didn't pardon Snowden or Assange.
On the other hand, the development that cheers me the most is Biden's immediate rejoining of the Paris agreement and blocking of the dirty keystone pipeline.
They’re both traitors mate . They’re not whistle blowers . They’re enemies of the state . Just because they released stuff you want to know , it put many lives , and weakened the countries ability to defend itself . Especially when you listen to interviews where their motivations are dubious at best .
Whistleblowing on illegal mass surveillance (Snowden) and reporting on crimes and corruption (Assange) is in the public interest. It is journalism.
regarding Snowden, the NSA and CIA were flat out breaking the law and lying about it. Former CIA director John Brennan and James Clapper should be in gaol for illegal activity, not least for perjury for lying to Congress about what they were doing. They are the traitors.
Rogue intelligence agencies operating outside the law and outside even their own government's knowledge are in nobody's interest.
Nobody is debating that . But there were many other things leaked in those documents that weren’t breaking the law , and put lives at risk . That’s treason mate , regardless of where you sit on the political fence . The laws are clear , and your requirements when you get your security clearances are clear .
So what do you do if you complain to your superiors about industrial-scale illegal activity, and nothing happens? ( a la Snowden). Your duty is to your country and its laws, not to an organisation breaking laws and lying about it.
Journalism is never treason.
Treason is rogue agencies acting like an anti-democratic Stasi.
Treason is being called in front of Congress, asked if you are engaged in mass surveillance of the public (in defiance of the Constitution), and choosing to answer with perjury rather than the truth.
Treason is the US secretly arming Islamic extremists rebels (i.e the very people they were fighting in the war on terror) another fact we wouldn't have known without Wikileaks
It’s treason mate . He had top secret vetted clearance of which he used that to give to Wikileaks . There’s no nuance to it . Just because some of the stuff leaked was of benefit to the public , there were many other state secrets that weakened the US against its enemies .
That is the definition of treason. He knew what he was doing , the laws are clear . And by the way they’re clear here as well.
I don’t have any skin in the game because , whilst I agree what the NSA did was disgusting , Snowden isn’t some pillar of the community either . It’s hard to distinguish the man from the act . And who knows what those leaks did , and how many lives were lost or put at risk because of it .
You’ve got your morality firmly planted to your position . And I totally respect that .
I just don’t think we are in it all together . As much as I wished it was like that . Russia is not our friend . Nor is China or Iran . Or Saudi Arabia for that matter .
So how do you reconcile the fact that that’s where Snowden ended up . Doesn’t sit right with me .
The whole thing stinks .
Wikileaks has also published information about corruption and abuses of power etc in China, Russia, Syria and various other countries, even corruption in Kenya. it's a myth that they only publish stuff on America. The reason Snowden ended up stuck in Russia isn't because he chose there, but because the US wouldn't let him go anywhere else. He went to Moscow on transit to South America. They even illegally intercepted the plane of the Bolivian President thinking he was in it.
You don't defend freedom and democracy by allowing the emergence of a Stasi. You defend freedom and democracy by whistleblowing on any entity that tries to be the Stasi. If we allow agencies to carry on like the Stasi (and illegally) we may as well give up on the idea of freedom.
Disturbingly, these agencies are now using the hysteria about pro-Trumpists to advocate giving themselves even more power. Criminal and perjurer John Brennan (who has a plum media job instead of a gaol cell) is advocating just this.
(PS though we disagree, it wasn't me who downvoted you).
