Remembering 1963

S

shiretiger

Well-known member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_NSWRFL_season

The game was ultimately the Dragons' most controversial win in their 11-year run since the story has passed into Australian rugby league folklore that St George benefitted from dubious decisions made by referee Darcy Lawler.[2]
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Lawler, the game's No.1 referee was known to enjoy a bet. A number of Wests players and sports journalists have claimed that the '63 Grand Final was a rort and point to some questionable decisions. Just before half time, Wests had a try disallowed. At 8-3 McDougall had a chance to even the score when he won a race to the ball in goal, but Lawler ruled that he did not ground it. Later with 15 minutes to go and the score favouring Saints 5-3, Johnny King scored a controversial match winning try. Both decisions fuelled the debate about Lawler's impartiality on the day.

Well, I had the privilege last night of meeting an Immortal who was there that day, and I asked him point blank: "Johnny, my mob are playing your mob next Sunday at the SCG to "celebrate" the 1963 grand final, is there any truth to the rumour that Wests were dudded by the ref in the that grand final?"

A long winded reply was forthcoming but the gist was no, Wests were not dudded.

I'm not sure if you can take it as gospel but it isn't everyday of the week you get to talk to an Immortal.
 
I can't tell you how much of a relief it is to read this post. My anger and frustration has clearly been misplaced all these years. A simple post on an internet forum has killed this myth and I now have closure.

What is next on Mythbusters? Graeme O'Grady was actually offside to his own kick?
 
These are all vague memories of things i have read or been told over the years.They may be completely wrong,but, like the harold holt stories,they are worth speculating about.

The wests players were certain that johnny king had been tackled more than once before he scored the winning try in the grand final. if you look at the conditions on the day,what comprised a tackle seemed uncertain.

Darcy lawler ,the referee,had supposedly plonked his money on saints before the game.

He never refereed much after that and died at an early age.So was it a fix or not?
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you would have to watch the whole game to make your own mind up.
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i think it was.
 
These are all vague memories of things i have read or been told over the years.They may be completely wrong,but, like the harold holt stories,they are worth speculating about.

The wests players were certain that johnny king had been tackled more than once before he scored the winning try in the grand final. if you look at the conditions on the day,what comprised a tackle seemed uncertain.

Darcy lawler ,the referee,had supposedly plonked his money on saints before the game.

He never refereed much after that and died at an early age.So was it a fix or not?
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\
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you would have to watch the whole game to make your own mind up.
\
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i think it was.
 
@shiretiger said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_NSWRFL_season

The game was ultimately the Dragons' most controversial win in their 11-year run since the story has passed into Australian rugby league folklore that St George benefitted from dubious decisions made by referee Darcy Lawler.[2]
>
Lawler, the game's No.1 referee was known to enjoy a bet. A number of Wests players and sports journalists have claimed that the '63 Grand Final was a rort and point to some questionable decisions. Just before half time, Wests had a try disallowed. At 8-3 McDougall had a chance to even the score when he won a race to the ball in goal, but Lawler ruled that he did not ground it. Later with 15 minutes to go and the score favouring Saints 5-3, Johnny King scored a controversial match winning try. Both decisions fuelled the debate about Lawler's impartiality on the day.

Well, I had the privilege last night of meeting an Immortal who was there that day, and I asked him point blank: "Johnny, my mob are playing your mob next Sunday at the SCG to "celebrate" the 1963 grand final, is there any truth to the rumour that Wests were dudded by the ref in the that grand final?"

A long winded reply was forthcoming but the gist was no, Wests were not dudded.

I'm not sure if you can take it as gospel but it isn't everyday of the week you get to talk to an Immortal.
Click to expand...

Dear Shiretiger

With all respect, but what would your immortal know?

I was at that match too. Who knows whether MacDougall’s try for wests was fair and who knows whether Johnny King’s try was fair.

We know (or understand) that West’s players were told before the match that Lawler had put a bet on Saints. The source of the information was supposed to be West’s front rower Jack Gibson, who was said to be an SP bookie.

Maybe the referee got a good price, because up until the GF, Wests had played Saints three times for three wins.

The GF was the fourth time the teams had met, and the first time Saints had ‘won’.

Cheers

Fibro
 
jack gibson played front row for wests that day.

He was told before the game that Lawler had backed saints to win.

Jack gibson,in his younger days had run s.p. books.,so he had maintained his contacts with his betting buddies.

They were never going to win the game.

This was how jack gibson saw things in his last book.
 
Listening to the great Ned Kelly last night on 2ue and he was adament that there was a sting on. You only had to hear the emotion in his voice 50 years on to understand
 
@Alf Duguid said:
Listening to the great Ned Kelly last night on 2ue and he was adament that there was a sting on. You only had to hear the emotion in his voice 50 years on to understand
Click to expand...

Arthur Summons, the Magpies captain in the 1963 GF (and captain of the 1963 Kangaroos) said the same thing on NRL 360 tonight. It still hurts after 50 years.
 
I was at the game as well and saw bits of it from my dads shoulder, on the hill, in the rain, there was mud everywhere. Everyone had the grey plastic raincoats on that used to rip easy. You could hardly tell which side was which as they were all totally covered in mud just like in the premiership statue and the photos.
 
What did your immortal say about dancing down the street in England wearing nothing but a bowler hat - I suppose that didn't happen either.

I was at the game in 1963, 12 years old with my father, uncle and grandfather. We were very close to where Gil MacDougall did or didn't ground the ball over the line. To my black and white eyes it looked like a try, without doubt.

The King incident was a long way away, but I have seen film footage of it. It is true that the sideline was obscured with mud. There is no doubt that Don Parish, Wests' fullback thought that he had tackled King, at least once. He brought King down and got up to mark King, but King just started running again instead of playing the ball. There are reports that referee Lawler called KIng to play on.

Jack Gibson (Wests' prop and later renowned 'Super-coach') has said and written categorically that Lawler had a bet on the game. Gibson. I think, is known very much as a man of his word.

Looking back, I remember this game as teaching me that the world isn't fair and that the good guy doesn't always win. Rulings like the one referred to by Gary Bakerloo when Greg Hartley called Graeme O'Grady offside to his own kick come as no surprise to me.

It is why 2005 meant so much to me. Of the four of us who went to the 1963 GF, I was the only one left alive to see the 2005 GF. When Benji broke away up the left-hand touchline with Pat Richards (on one ankle) tailing him I'm sure I could hear my father cheering him on in the same tone as he had cheered Arthur Summons, Noel Kelly, Peter Dimond, and the others, 42 long years earlier.
 
When u get so close in a gf and lose you never forget it…..especially if you think you are hard done by.

I have never recovered from the 89 gf,its a scar I wll have for life.

And Id like to extend deepest sympapthies to our magpie brothers.

Just for the record,King looked well tackled to me.....
 
Ive seen this before and again last night

Summons- for him to go on about it for 50 years must feel strongly
Its not like theres never been cheating in sport before

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4975845748093&set=vb.23342201513&type=2&theater
 
Well before I was born, but my boss is and was a Wests fan. He was at the game and positive we were dudded.
 
Ink, with regard to that ‘try’ to Johnny King, the issue is not just whether King was held. The Wests players involved are adamant that Lawler called out ‘held’ and to get off the tackled player. King regained his feet and scored.

Another factor regarding the refereeing in that match (apart from the disallowed try to Macdougall) is that Wests were slaughtered in the penalty count: 18 – 7 (and we thought that 14 – 7 last weekend was bad).

I don’t think that there can be much doubt that the match was fixed. Lawler has been more recently referred to as a ‘colourful identity’ which is media code for ‘crook’ and the players knew it at the time.

In Ray Chesterton book “100 Years of Rugby League: A Celebration of the Greatest Game of All he records Ian Walsh as saying:

“if it was going to be a good day for me he would call me by my Christian name [and] if he called me by my surname it was going to be a tough day at the office”

while in the same publication Noel Kelly is recorded as saying that Lawler had winked at him when giving final instructions before the 1961 semi-final against Balmain; a game that the Magpies went on to win in controversial circumstances.

Bill Harrigan in his book refers to the “ugly shadow of doubt (that) has settled over Lawler’s career. Harrigan looks at the evidence and seems to come to the conclusion that the allegations are true.

The point is that, at the time, noone cared. The allegations were presented to the NSWRL, who did nothing.

The media didn’t want to know. St George at that time were the biggest glamour team of my experience and the media fawned all over them. In those days the media performed the role of saint’s cheer leaders, and were certainly not going to rain on their parade.

That’s what sickens me most about the whole affair: no one cares – the biggest scandal in our game’s history, and noone cares.

Cheers

Fibro
 
Enjoyed reading these recollections of the '63 gf

was just thinking I was under this impression that Yappy Holman and Arthur Summons were both halfbacks, what happened in the early 60's when they were both at wests?
 
Holman's last match was the 1961 GF. I think Summons joined Wests the following year.

Not bad half-back recruitment compared to the current Tigers side - they replaced an Australian half with a future Australian half.
 
I think the fact that Harrigan was able to bring it up in his autobiography and was not sued by Lawler's family says something

These blokes were tough nuts thats for sure

Uncle Dud Beattie was involved with the Jets (Ipswich) and to hear the story how he broke his arm in a Test Match and because in those days there was no replacements he purposely picked a fight with another Pom player so they both would get sent off

Back in the day when Ipswich supplied the entire Australian front row Dud ,Noel Kelly and Parcell
 
@Goose said:
Enjoyed reading these recollections of the '63 gf

was just thinking I was under this impression that Yappy Holman and Arthur Summons were both halfbacks, what happened in the early 60's when they were both at wests?
Click to expand...

Cashed up leagues club and they recruited aggressively after being stuffed for many years by the game's administration primarily through the the residency rule. Made the '58, '61, '62 & '63 grand finals.
 
@happy tiger said:
I think the fact that Harrigan was able to bring it up in his autobiography and was not sued by Lawler's family says something

These blokes were tough nuts thats for sure

Uncle Dud Beattie was involved with the Jets (Ipswich) and to hear the story how he broke his arm in a Test Match and because in those days there was no replacements he purposely picked a fight with another Pom player so they both would get sent off

Back in the day when Ipswich supplied the entire Australian front row Dud ,Noel Kelly and Parcell
Click to expand...

Wow, that’s sensational happy. It was a legendary match and a it was a legendary action by your uncle. You should be proud – he took one for the team and for Australia.

That was the third test of 1962\. A very powerful England team had cleaned up Australia in the first two tests and we were attempting to avoid a whitewash.

Your uncle was badly injured and could not continue. In those days no replacements were allowed, so, to even things up, he picked the most dominant pommie player that day – Rocky Turner their lock, walked up to him and belted him. Turner decked your uncle and Lawler sent them both off. Turner realized he had been conned and was filthy; he wanted to go on with it over the sideline but your uncle was too badly hurt to join in.

Your uncle’s quick thinking and selfless actions were the talk of rugby league for year’s to come. We would certainly lost and suffered the humiliation of a clean sweep, if Turner had stayed on the field.

In the end, Australia scored a try on full time in the corner and Ken Irvine converted from the sideline to win, what is probably, the best test match ever played in Australia.
 
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