Rozelle development

@Gary Bakerloo said:
@sunshine coast tiger said:
I hope Benny Ellias sues ACA, I think he would win. To run this on SOO night is yet another reason the NRL Independent Commision should tell them to F!!! OFF when the tv rights are sorted out soon. The AFL control the media so much better.

On what grounds can he sue? I saw no defamation in the story with reference to him merely being questions about his level of ownership which was not answered. Further, what would he lose as a result of the story?

We all know there are two sides to this story and it is very passionate. The only disappointing thing I saw was the discussion of the level of debt of the Balmain Leagues Club and its solvency whilst showing file footage of Wests Tigers. Effectively it links the two entities which IS wrong.

There was a clear inference that he had been deceitful and misleading in the name of making massive profits. That in itself is seriously damaging to his character. A decent person and about as great an ex Tiger as you can find does not deserve that kind of baseless editorial.
 
@Benjirific said:
@Anthism said:
Residents certainly don't want it, my family included. I'd love to hear a legitimate reason why it is needed, preferably from someone in the area if there are any (I.e people within a 500m radius max)
Traffic is ridiculous and it's hard enough to get on a bus in the morning. Leagues club is needed but there is no need for the rest.
You can't even go towards the city from that side of Vic rd/darling street without a trip around the world so it's just more problems. More franchises which will destroy local business owners (no mcdonalds etc in the area for a reason). Will be wayyy out of character with a massive "skyscraper" leaving all in its shadow.
There are no benefits other than the leagues club so why be happy with anything more when it destroys an important part of the WT community?
Please people I don't want my suburb to be destroyed so please don't support this development and buy into this "it's a greens thing" and be in touch with your area. I've lived here my whole life!
Have some sense about you and don't buy into it just because some "tigers legend" told you it's the right thing to do. You don't know his agendas and neither does anyone else. Don't get lured just because there's a leagues club SOMEWHERE amongst the development that will bail the club out. We can get a new model with the essential leagues club and there's no need to settle for some dodgy model which benefits no one!
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Ok, I'm a local resident (Oxford St Rozelle) and have been my whole life. My family have lived in the area (Balmain/Rozelle) for over 100 years.

I'll first pick apart your point about the club on its own. That model has tried and failed. Leagues clubs all over Sydney on their own are losing money, particularly those close to the city with The Star now redone. Factors outside their control have destroyed the registered clubs industry, which means they need to turn to developments such as this for financial safety. So basically, the club can't come back on it's own.

Secondly, reasons why this is needed. Well, for starters, Sydney has been experiencing urban sprawl for its whole history, and it's getting to the point where the infrastructure simply isn't enough to cope. There is established infrastructure along Victoria Road, so the position of this development is perfect for it's position in that respect. In regard to buses, I catch the bus to work in the city every morning, and have never had to wait longer than 10 minutes to get on one.

The retail on that side of Victoria Road is dead, plain and simple - there is no argument against that. This development will reinvigorate the area on that side of Victoria Road, and add 304 houses worth of people to shop in the local shops. That is up to around 600-700 new potential customers. In relation to the retail on the site, it won't be enough to service all the needs of those living there, so they will use the local shops. As described by Ian Wright on the 7:30 Report piece last Friday, it is a supermarket and 10-15 speciality shops. Hardly a mega-mall as some residents are saying in the hope of scaremongering.

In regards to their being no benefits - the area is in much need of parking (the development has around 800 spots), the area is in desperate need of childcare (how about that, it has childcare as well), the development provides a gym, medical centre and community centre. Are they not benefits to the community?

And the in-keeping with the rest of the area rubbish is exactly that - rubbish. Someone please explain to me how a high-rise, high-density development on the busiest road in the country is 'out of character'. The current nature of the suburb has put pressure on the rest of the city's infrastructure and transport network. Sydney needs to build up in it's inner-suburbs, not out to the extremities.

I'd like to stay away from personal attacks, but as a generalisation saying that 'I don't want my suburb to be destroyed' just screams NIMBY.

I grew up in Balmain, went to school in Balmain, lived in Clubb St until 2002\. I reckon I know the area very well. The western side of Victoria Rd, even when the Leagues Club was operating, was a retail wasteland. Indeed the more vibrant eastern side, among the myriad of cafes, bric a brac stores and picture framers, provided one banking facility and a baker.

The decision u needed to make for supermarket shopping was whether u went to Leichhardt, Balmain or Birko, none of which were especially convenient. Byers, a really great butcher with a long history, went. That great Italian restaurant on the corner, went. The precinct is on life support.

It is absurd that a few people living shoulder to shoulder within two blocks of Victoria Rd could have such a resistance to some real progress in the area. Theres an entire community bounded by Balmain, Lilyfield and Victoria roads that deserve some decent amenities and the opportunity to shop locally. They should not be compromised by blow ins in Waterloo and Cambridge St, that are more concerned about their already congested, noisy ghettos
 
i don't live there, but i agree with urban sprawl and let things happen.

Have a look at Top Ryde - use to be a A-Class dumb, the whole renovation has really freshened up that area IMO.
 
There was another story on 7:30 NSW last Friday. The main focus was on the size of the development.
It was much more even-handed than ACA (naturally), though still tended more towards anti-development (in its current form)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-29/inner-west-residents-oppose-development/4101740
 
@Anthism said:
Residents certainly don't want it, my family included. I'd love to hear a legitimate reason why it is needed, preferably from someone in the area if there are any (I.e people within a 500m radius max)
Traffic is ridiculous and it's hard enough to get on a bus in the morning. Leagues club is needed but there is no need for the rest.
You can't even go towards the city from that side of Vic rd/darling street without a trip around the world so it's just more problems. More franchises which will destroy local business owners (no mcdonalds etc in the area for a reason). Will be wayyy out of character with a massive "skyscraper" leaving all in its shadow.
There are no benefits other than the leagues club so why be happy with anything more when it destroys an important part of the WT community?
Please people I don't want my suburb to be destroyed so please don't support this development and buy into this "it's a greens thing" and be in touch with your area. I've lived here my whole life!
Have some sense about you and don't buy into it just because some "tigers legend" told you it's the right thing to do. You don't know his agendas and neither does anyone else. Don't get lured just because there's a leagues club SOMEWHERE amongst the development that will bail the club out. We can get a new model with the essential leagues club and there's no need to settle for some dodgy model which benefits no one!
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I agree with you mate.
I reckon we'd hear a different tune among most here that a pro development if this ugly unnecesary monolith was on THEIR doorstep.
 
Lived through it when I was living in Victoria. Although that was a 6 block 12 storeys a block complex.

The key was the residents group negotiating with the developers so everyone got some compensation for any disturbance caused. It also allowed strict work time regulations to be put into place.

Funnily enough in the end our property price rose by 3% above area growth when we moved on.

Still a fan of the original concept rejected by Council
 
When I lived in the inner west I lived near Leichhardt Forum. And it didn't bother me in the least. Because I realised living in the inner city means having to put up with stuff like noise, aircraft noise, and high density housing. I choose to live on the Central Coast now because when I got married and wanted to buy a house it was economically feasible to do so in the city with the size of house I wanted but if I ever moved back into the inner west this sort of development wouldn't worry me one bit especially seeing as though it is on one of the busiest roads in Sydney.
 
exactly right Yoss, these people wanting to preserve their so called village should take their heads out of the sand.
pisses me right off.
 
I lived on Parramatta rd at Croydon as a kid, there was always lots of traffic, accidents, noise dirt trucks buses….we moved and it was to a nicer quieter area in ashfield, but IF I ever moved back....all that wouldnt worry me even though it probably affects those that DO live there now.
 
@TuiTui said:
exactly right Yoss, these people wanting to preserve their so called village should take their heads out of the sand.
pisses me right off.

…and you live where, Tui...may I ask?
 
I live near Pratten Park Ink, i am a bit like you in that i moved to a quieter area.. i previously lived on Balmain Road Leichhardt right behind where the new plaza thing is and was there before, during and after it was built. Whilst initially i was disappointed that the old fruit and vege market was taken over by the develepmont.. i realised that the new plaza thing was more beneficial for shopping in the big picture, and was more than happy to put up with the prolonged construction.

One of the things that irked me back then and still irks me a little to this day is the PCYC on Norton Street being taken over by the Italian Cultural place. I played basketball for the PCYC and spent many a hour hanging out there. It was a great place for youth to get away from the potential of causing trouble on the streets ( ha i am refering to myself there :slight_smile: ). It was also used for community events much the same as the Town hall is. To this day i have not seen a single person enter that building since it was changed into an Italian Cultural centre. A bit of rant i know.

I guess what i'm getting at is there was a loss of something really important to the community and i think this proposed development would benefit the community at Rozelle in the long run. Sure not in the exact same way as the PCYC but it certainly wouldn't be the horrible thing the village people are making it out to be.
 
@TuiTui said:
I live near Pratten Park Ink, i am a bit like you in that i moved to a quieter area.. i previously lived on Balmain Road Leichhardt right behind where the new plaza thing is and was there before, during and after it was built. Whilst initially i was disappointed that the old fruit and vege market was taken over by the develepmont.. i realised that the new plaza thing was more beneficial for shopping in the big picture, and was more than happy to put up with the prolonged construction.

One of the things that irked me back then and still irks me a little to this day is the PCYC on Norton Street being taken over by the Italian Cultural place. I played basketball for the PCYC and spent many a hour hanging out there. It was a great place for youth to get away from the potential of causing trouble on the streets ( ha i am refering to myself there ). It was also used for community events much the same as the Town hall is. To this day i have not seen a single person enter that building since it was changed into an Italian Cultural centre. A bit of rant i know.

I guess what i'm getting at is there was a loss of something really important to the community and i think this proposed development would benefit the community at Rozelle in the long run. Sure not in the exact same way as the PCYC but it certainly wouldn't be the horrible thing the village people are making it out to be.

It honestly wouldn't at all. There's no building close to that size in the area and the perceived benefits really aren't benefits I'm outside it right now maybe some of you should check out the area before jumping to conclusions.
Honestly the plaza at leichhardt is nothing like this at all. We're talking about a massive building that you'd be able to see from miles away.
With all due respect you don't live here so why are you so passionate about it?
I get the feeling some people see the area when they travel to the oval but are unaware of anything the general area already offers, not once has someone come up with something new this building offers to the area it doesn't already have as a positive.
Did I mention wt won't see any of the money this place generates?
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I wasn't meaning to compare the plaza on Norton St directly to the proposed development. All i was trying to do was intimate that i know what it's like to live right next door to a large scale construction in a busy area, the changes that that can bring to an area and how that can be a positive thing.
I may not live in Rozelle but, I grew up in Leichhardt and hold the whole area which to me includes the surrounding suburbs of Rozelle,Lilyfield,Balmain and Annandale dear to my heart and always will. I have many friends living in the area, some of which live in quite close proximity to the site..none of whom are opposed to the development.

Seems to me you can't count to one concerning you not being able to see anybody "come up with something new this building offers to the area it doesn't already have as a positive", a quote from Yossarian in this very thread: "Fourthly there are no large supermarkets near the site. Balmain Woolies is a fair walk and it's not a big shop anyway. Fifthly the residents living in the towers will create further demand for shops both in the towers and outside of them", that's 2 points for you. Both of them valid in my opinion.

Regardless of whether WT get any money from the development, which i'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that they wouldn't(please elaborate), it would be nice to have somewhere local to Leichhardt oval to celebrate a la 2005\. This is a memory i will never forget and to me was the perfect place to celebrate victory. Sure i live in Ashfield and could go up to Wests Ashfield to do that, but hey it's just not the same. I love Wests Tigers with all my heart, this is why i'm so passionate about it.

edit: please to be excusing any perceived "Balmainification"–this edit is not directed at you Anthism.
 
@TuiTui said:
I wasn't meaning to compare the plaza on Norton St directly to the proposed development. All i was trying to do was intimate that i know what it's like to live right next door to a large scale construction in a busy area, the changes that that can bring to an area and how that can be a positive thing.
I may not live in Rozelle but, I grew up in Leichhardt and hold the whole area which to me includes the surrounding suburbs of Rozelle,Lilyfield,Balmain and Annandale dear to my heart and always will. I have many friends living in the area, some of which live in quite close proximity to the site..none of whom are opposed to the development.

Seems to me you can't count to one concerning you not being able to see anybody "come up with something new this building offers to the area it doesn't already have as a positive", a quote from Yossarian in this very thread: "Fourthly there are no large supermarkets near the site. Balmain Woolies is a fair walk and it's not a big shop anyway. Fifthly the residents living in the towers will create further demand for shops both in the towers and outside of them", that's 2 points for you. Both of them valid in my opinion.

Regardless of whether WT get any money from the development, which i'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that they wouldn't(please elaborate), it would be nice to have somewhere local to Leichhardt oval to celebrate a la 2005\. This is a memory i will never forget and to me was the perfect place to celebrate victory. Sure i live in Ashfield and could go up to Wests Ashfield to do that, but hey it's just not the same. I love Wests Tigers with all my heart, this is why i'm so passionate about it.

edit: please to be excusing any perceived "Balmainification"–this edit is not directed at you Anthism.

WT will only get the leagues club earnings not the shopping centre. That's why Elias' involvement is suspicious in terms of his intentions. If anyone has any other info about this be my guest to share
About Life is down the road and whilst expensive, still suits the area. A big woolies/Coles etc isn't. There's also IGA and a number of other stores. The markets etc I don't see a problem there. I'll give you half a reason at best and even then it doesn't constitute the construction of a skyscraper just to house it.
I think the additional traffic will hurt the area more than revitalize it i think you'll find. The added competition will not help at all. There aren't many chain shops in Rozelle and most like it that way so the 2nd point leads me to believe theres a canceling out factor at best there.

Still far more negatives than any kind of positives FOR THE CURRENT MODEL!

Mate, the skyscraper isn't owned by wt your passion is misled! I'm pretty sure we all agree we'd like the leagues club back, it's the rest of the building that is a disgrace and what anti developers are against
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I grew up in Balmain, went to Birchgrove Public and Balmain High. The area has changed a lot over the years. For mine the development (although not at the same height) will be gerat for the area. It will provide much need parking, a supermarket (Living in Balmain you always had to drive to a supermarket as Balmain Wollies is the worst supermarket going), much needed parking and the return of Balmain Leagues. It from my reading of the plans will also provide a medical centre and community centre.

The propertry is on a busy main road and if done correctly can only enhance the appeal of an area that has aways been an eyesore. The local shopping Darling street will be enmhanced if the development goes ahead, I know I park my car in Norton Plaza and then shop at the shops on Norton Street.

In my opinion the development willl go ahead but not at the current height. The whole thing would have been easier if the JRPP had apporved the previous proposal. I am sure in the end the developer will get approval for a development which is greater then the previously rejected proposal.
 
@Anthism said:
@TuiTui said:
I wasn't meaning to compare the plaza on Norton St directly to the proposed development. All i was trying to do was intimate that i know what it's like to live right next door to a large scale construction in a busy area, the changes that that can bring to an area and how that can be a positive thing.
I may not live in Rozelle but, I grew up in Leichhardt and hold the whole area which to me includes the surrounding suburbs of Rozelle,Lilyfield,Balmain and Annandale dear to my heart and always will. I have many friends living in the area, some of which live in quite close proximity to the site..none of whom are opposed to the development.

Seems to me you can't count to one concerning you not being able to see anybody "come up with something new this building offers to the area it doesn't already have as a positive", a quote from Yossarian in this very thread: "Fourthly there are no large supermarkets near the site. Balmain Woolies is a fair walk and it's not a big shop anyway. Fifthly the residents living in the towers will create further demand for shops both in the towers and outside of them", that's 2 points for you. Both of them valid in my opinion.

Regardless of whether WT get any money from the development, which i'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that they wouldn't(please elaborate), it would be nice to have somewhere local to Leichhardt oval to celebrate a la 2005\. This is a memory i will never forget and to me was the perfect place to celebrate victory. Sure i live in Ashfield and could go up to Wests Ashfield to do that, but hey it's just not the same. I love Wests Tigers with all my heart, this is why i'm so passionate about it.

edit: please to be excusing any perceived "Balmainification"–this edit is not directed at you Anthism.

WT will only get the leagues club earnings not the shopping centre. That's why Elias' involvement is suspicious in terms of his intentions. If anyone has any other info about this be my guest to share
About Life is down the road and whilst expensive, still suits the area. A big woolies/Coles etc isn't. There's also IGA and a number of other stores. The markets etc I don't see a problem there. I'll give you half a reason at best and even then it doesn't constitute the construction of a skyscraper just to house it.
I think the additional traffic will hurt the area more than revitalize it i think you'll find. The added competition will not help at all. There aren't many chain shops in Rozelle and most like it that way so the 2nd point leads me to believe theres a canceling out factor at best there.

Still far more negatives than any kind of positives FOR THE CURRENT MODEL!

Mate, the skyscraper isn't owned by wt your passion is misled! I'm pretty sure we all agree we'd like the leagues club back, it's the rest of the building that is a disgrace and what anti developers are against
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As I've said before, I live in the area directly impacted by this development. First of all, About Life is not a supermarket which everyone can use. It sells organic food at a massively inflated price. I don't want organic food and I can't afford to pay those prices for groceries. IGA has hardly anything, and is basically a 7Eleven with an extra aisle. I can't do my groceries without getting in a car and going to Balmain Woolworths. When I do get there, it'll take 15 minutes to find a parking spot, and then I'll come out not being able to get anything I want. Not many people know this, but Balmain Woolworths is the most profitable in the country. That is because there is no competition and they can inflate prices and have limited choice.

In regard to WT getting nothing, that perception is a result of massive misinformation by the main group protesting about this along with the council. The return of the club in a smaller size will actually make it profitable, much like has been done with the Five Dock and Flemington sites. They are both turning a profit because they are smaller and much better run, which is what would happen at Rozelle. As with the involvement of Mr Elias, did he not declare this involvement a few years ago when the members voted in favour of the selling of the club site to him? That's right, the members of the club (not the directors as was inferred in the SMH article last Saturday) agreed to sell the club site to him…...is this not a declaration of financial involvement? He may have stepped down from the board of Rozelle Village, but I don't remember him ever saying that he is no longer involved in the development at all. As seen in the following link - http://inner-west-courier.whereilive.com.au/news/story/elias-partnership-pushes-tigers-da-ahead/ - he was a business partner and owner of Rozelle Village from the start, and just because he stepped down from the board, there was no indication he was no longer an owner.

Anthism seems to have conveniently ignored my previous post about the positives, which I've found is common among people against this development.
 
Amazing that everyone on this post refers to ACA and that other dreadful 'current affairs' show in regards to the development. If you watch that rubbish you are bound to be deceived. Did anyone both to read the Sydney Morning Herald that broke the story? Far more credible than tabloid TV! If the club is 10 mill' in the red then the directors should be held accountable.
 
@GoTiges62 said:
Amazing that everyone on this post refers to ACA and that other dreadful 'current affairs' show in regards to the development. If you watch that rubbish you are bound to be deceived. Did anyone both to read the Sydney Morning Herald that broke the story? Far more credible than tabloid TV! If the club is 10 mill' in the red then the directors should be held accountable.

I think you'll actually find that the majority of the SMH article is false. There was a statement released by the club which explained the incorrect things in the article (Can't find where it is, but it was referred to by Chris Smith in the radio interview). It is very unlike them, but I fear this was generated by some of the local residents who believe they have a divine right to the truth and the moral high ground.
 

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