Sack Sheens Thread

[Goose]

People keep saying that we should be a top performers because of our squad, and ignore the fact that the coach is the main reason we have that squad.

good on him for building the squad, but there is no point in him being there if he can't bring the best out of the TEAM as a whole.

it's like me chopping up a few vegies, getting the bun ready, shredding cheese then not putting it all and making a burger. he has had 4-5 years with this squad and hasn't yet been able to make them play consistently as a team.

also, the arguement that he has BUILT the squad imo is absurd. he cannot be the only one credited with it. we have recruitment officers doing that job, sure sheens has a say in it, but he HARDLY is the only one who should be credited for that.

The fact you think it is absurd that the coach should be credited with building the squad shows how little you know of the workings of a football club.

Of course he has others that assist in building the squad, that team is also built by the coach. Not just Tim, but every coach does this, it is a huge part of their performance indicators.
It is well known that Brian Smith is very good at getting systems and pathways in place to build squads from the bottom up, but rubbish at finishing them off, Matt Elliot is the reverse, terrible at getting recruitment and development, but excellent at getting the best out of players.

You have a very blinkered role of the coach

 

[tig_prmz]

The fact you think it is absurd that the coach should be **THE ONLY ONE** credited with building the squad shows how little you know of the workings of a football club.

read what i said before, you're giving sheens all the credit for building the squad, im merely pointing out that he should not be the only one credited. if you wanna credit someonen, credit the recruitment officers who WT have in place.

as far as i can tell, sheens may have the final say as in yes/no but he is not the one recruiting them…. i may be wrong here, but it just doesn't seem right that sheens is the one going to junior games all over australia and picking out the best 😕

 

[Goose]

The fact you think it is absurd that the coach should be **THE ONLY ONE** credited with building the squad shows how little you know of the workings of a football club.

read what i said before, you're giving sheens all the credit for building the squad, im merely pointing out that he should not be the only one credited. if you wanna credit someonen, credit the recruitment officers who WT have in place.

as far as i can tell, sheens may have the final say as in yes/no but he is not the one recruiting them…. i may be wrong here, but it just doesn't seem right that sheens is the one going to junior games all over australia and picking out the best 😕

Of course he has a team working for him performing various tasks…..like every other manager on the planet. However he is responsible for achieving this end result.

You have the most limited scope of responsibility Ive ever come across.

 

[tig_prmz]

no he PARTLY responsible for achieving the end result

 

[Goose]

no he PARTLY responsible for achieving the end result

in the same way a project manager is PARTLY responsible for a delivering a project.

or a builder is PARTLY responsible for the end product of the house

or Marketing manager is partly responsible for a marketing campaign.

All managers develop a plan and put people in place to achieve parts of the overall plan, they are ultimately responsible for the result.

An NRL coach is the same.

 

[innsaneink]

Have I read you two's same argument before?
Im sure I have

 

[Knuckles]

Have I read you two's same argument before?
Im sure I have

Lol !!!!

 

[tig_prmz]

welllll if he is spending time, going to junior matches and upgrading our juniors, wonder who is actually COACHING then.

you're just trying to shift away from the real problem which is sheens not being able to bring the best out of our team in 5 years and not being able to have them perform consistently

 

[Goose]

Have I read you two's same argument before?
Im sure I have

Yes you have.
I am an idiot for continuing…..
i just cant stop myself replying, the smart arse emoticons, repetition of words and use of capitals rile me up.

Can someone other than me tell him that coaching NRL is not liking coaching under 15's when your job is taking the 20 blokes in your squad and making them the best you can.

 

[Goose]

welllll if he is spending time, going to junior matches and upgrading our juniors, wonder who is actually COACHING then.

you're just trying to shift away from the real problem which is sheens not being able to bring the best out of our team in 5 years and not being able to have them perform consistently

Im not trying to gloss over anything, we have run top 4 in consecutive years, that on its own is more than enough to keep your job.
Coaching is a results based business, they are good results.

You have tried to come up with reasons despite that record to sack him, and in the process shown a lack of knowldege of his role, despite being told explicitly a number of times of the wide varying nature of his role. You choose to ignore what I have told you, and in fact have been a tool about it with the use of stuff like this :crazy

 

[Guest]

At the end of the day, here are the facts:

1\. Sheens is the coach of the Wests Tigers and his job at this point in time is secure
2\. There has been no media scrutiny falling on him to be replaced
3\. There have not been any names bandied about in the media as possible replacements for Sheens in any event

 

[Knuckles]

Have I read you two's same argument before?
Im sure I have

Yes you have.
I am an idiot for continuing…..
i just cant stop myself replying, the smart arse emoticons, repetition of words and use of capitals rile me up.

Can someone other than me tell him that coaching NRL is not liking coaching under 15's when your job is taking the 20 blokes in your squad and making them the best you can.

Tell him he's better off sticking to preparing his bun only this time remembering to put the cheese etc in it. !

 

[happy_tiger]

Have I read you two's same argument before?
Im sure I have

Yes you have.
I am an idiot for continuing…..
i just cant stop myself replying, the smart arse emoticons, repetition of words and use of capitals rile me up.

Can someone other than me tell him that coaching NRL is not liking coaching under 15's when your job is taking the 20 blokes in your squad and making them the best you can.

I run a business and can completely back up what Goose is saying . I delegate tasks to others that are fairly manageable for them and concentrate on the possible problem areas of the business

Onviously I oversee everything and I get my juniors to report on problems that are occurring and give them ideas on how they could or should fix them without closing my mind to any good ideas they may have themselves which could make my business more profitable or stronger

Any good leader should be training his replacement . Obviously the leader should be looking for bigger and better roles himself

That cover it Goose ??

 

[Goose]

Thanks happy :slight_smile:

 

[alex]

I was thinking tonight about whether Sheens is ready to be given the flick. I've been quite vocal in saying his time is up and he should move on. But then I thought about reasons why we should keep him.

Yes, the team seems very stale the last few years, especially this season. For this reason, I think a breath of fresh air could do the team a world of good. Just look at Hasler and Maguire with their clubs.

But one characteristic of Sheens that is very underrated is his ability to develop and manage a player's attitude and their character.

I have never seen Farah, or any other player, so determined to get an Origin jersey. He must have been spewing to see an average player like Ennis get chosen ahead of him for two years straight. Then to withstand all the crap and criticism about 'not being an Origin type player' and to take that out on to field and blow that theory out of the water was a great feat. His determination this year has been scary, yet something I love seeing in a captain. I can only imagine that Sheens has managed Farah's expectations, motivation and his purpose the last two years to bring him to the type of player he is today.

Then I look at Benji. Child prodigy. Teen superstar. Next biggest thing in rugby league. Early career riddled with injury. Setback after setback. He could've easily said after the third or fourth time that he's had enough or just not made for first grade rugby league. But he highlighted Sheens' mentoring as something that helped him get to where he is today. He is also one of the most humble marquee players in the game. I attended an open training session last year at Concord. As the team was running back into the sheds, the announcer said there were going to be no opportunities for autographs. But knowing how disappointed most of the kids would be, Benji stayed out there for about another 30 minutes and had a photo with every single person while the team went straight in. It just showed that he knows an extra 30 minutes of his time could make someone else's day. The guy has his head on straight.

You also notice how many NRL coaches played under Sheens. Craig Bellamy, Ricky Stuart, Mal Meninga, David Furner, John Cartwright, Royce Simmons .. and now he's moulding Todd Payten into another great coach.

While he may be finding it hard to still get the same high performance out of the guys on the field, Sheens is a great manager of men. I do think our footy has been suffering the last few seasons, but I still think we need Sheens' mentoring in some way…

 

[fergiefurr]

sheens said we lost momentum when we went off for halftime…ahh ok...

the bloke cant motivate the players anymore, everytime we lose its for the same reasons every year, nothing ever changes

sheens is a good coach, but the players are too comfortable with him, they need someone to come in and give them a swift kick up the backside when they stuff up

 

[tig_prmz]

if there is anyone still saying we dont need things to change, they're kidding themselves.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

This thread needs to be stickied.

I wonder what Sheens said at halftime. Certainly worked a treat!

 

[supercoach]

No Ellis,Moltzen,Farah,Utai and of course Lote breaking his arm, its a miracle we got as close as we did. So Sheens is doing something right. I wonder if the dogs had lost Barba,Ennis and Pritchard plus a couple of others how competitive they would be .

In saying that I have said a million times the place needs change and its a hell of a lot easier to change your coach than the majority of your players

 

[system]

In saying that I have said a million times the place needs change and its a hell of a lot easier to change your coach than the majority of your players

Yup