Sensible solutions? - With conditions

Swordy

Well-known member
I'm hurting as much as the next guy/girl, but I'm asking for sensible solutions.

However there is a catch.

1) You can't say 'Sack Sheens'
2) You can't bag our CEO
3) You can't drop Moltzen.

I have put these rules in place because I saw players out there tonight not having a dig. That isn't Sheens or Humphries fault. I saw Moltzen make a few mistakes, but I saw others making more at worse times.

I know we have injuries, some significant.

But please, if you have a sensible solution, lets hear it. If you feel the need to break one of the three rules, then there are other threads for you to vent you anger.
 
Ok we can't drop moltzen do back to half that was the plan to start the season stick with it. Either beau to fullback or give John grant a run people says he ain't ready for 1st grade but he can't do any worse. We have a lack of speed and if u it had of been grant there chasing Crocker not moltzen he's run down before the halfway line.
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A- play for 80 minutes. B- drop Aysford,Groat & Moltz (never been a hater of moltz,but hasn't played good all year & i have to break rule 3) C-Never Ever Again have 2 backs on the bench D-If your going to give Miller a go,let him play 80 minutes & don't replace him with Meaney. E-Defend better
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AT least you guys are having a go. And Im not saying that one of my rules are unbreakable, Im just trying to get some common sense into the discussion.

I for one, whether it is the end solution or not, are sick of the same old stale garbage and personal attacks on Sheens and the CEO and Moltzen.

The stats don't reflect well on Ellis, Miller Marshall and some more, but I dont hear outrage.

Is there disharmony in the ranks? Why is Lawrence/Ayshford playing like busteds? Why does Liam Fulton look miles above the others. Why has Blair, a quality player in the past, playing like a bad buy?

No personal stuff guys, just sensible answers…........ please......
 
I dont know what we did over the offseason but it has made us a lackluster team.

Questions need to be asked of the defensive coach, we have gone backwards in this capacity.
Questions need to be asked of our ball handling and backline play. We would be the least threatening backline in the comp at the moment.
Our 2 gun centers were outplayed again. That is 4 games in a row for them. The Raiders went around us tonight because they didnt fear them. It was a predetermined game plan.
Marshal has been knocked out in consecutive weeks and as a result is down on form.

There is 2 reasons this team is worse than it was last year….
The departures of Steve Folkes and Rob Lui. Folkes had us tough, Lui had the backline working.
 
@Swordy said:
AT least you guys are having a go. And Im not saying that one of my rules are unbreakable, Im just trying to get some common sense into the discussion.

I for one, whether it is the end solution or not, are sick of the same old stale garbage and personal attacks on Sheens and the CEO and Moltzen.

The stats don't reflect well on Ellis, Miller Marshall and some more, but I dont hear outrage.

Is there disharmony in the ranks? Why is Lawrence/Ayshford playing like busteds? Why does Liam Fulton look miles above the others. Why has Blair, a quality player in the past, playing like a bad buy?

No personal stuff guys, just sensible answers…........ please......

. After last week,I just put it down to a bad game & we wern't switched on.After the embarrassing & inept performance,i thought tonight would be a totally different story this week.I know we were missing Farah,but i thought it would be a good thing for a few players to shine without him there.Unfounatly I was wrong & unlike most sides we haven't shown any improvement.I know we have a few injuries but were also carrying a few players that aren't playing up to first grade standards & deserve to be dropped.
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1 WT defensive line speed is the worst in NRL- we move forward three steps, then stop- the good teams sprint up and hit hard. And they do it relentlessly.

2 win the ruck- we let the opposition play the ball way too quickly. Our ineffectiveness in this area contributes to problem number 1 and visa versa.

3 Stop the offloads. Again - if we have issues in 1 & 2, offloads against us will be high.

If I was Sheens, Id be pushing the line, "If we fix our defence, the attack will come."
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Go forward One idea may be worth a try We could play the way the Storm used to play under Anderson and play flat balls on the advantage line

Will give us added momentum at the advantage line and should prevent us getting dominated so easily and thus slowing the play the ball down Our ruck and play the ball seemed in slow motion compared to the Raiders

Defensively we are a "'work in progress still" We are trying to learn to dominate the ruck through wrestling This isn't going to happen overnight ,especially seeing we have relied on defensive line speed for the last few years

Attack wise it is really hard to tell what the best option is at this stage But if we are keep getting badly beaten and totally dominated the way we are nothing we do or anyone we sign or bring in will help Long term , if the option is Miller ,(which I truely believe it is ) he needs to be there now and we need to puch Moltzen back to fullback

Our bench and pack needs to be as big as we can make it so we can at least get parity in the ruck At least then we can at a level playing field with the better forward packs
 
Drop Groat for Moors. 4 forwards on the bench. Keep your 1, 6, 7 and 9 as stable as you can for the entire year.

We need a team who will move up in the defensive line. It was best summed up for me when Fulton put in a kick into the in goal and then all but tackled the fullback. No-one else was there to help make the tackle, and the fullback tapped the ball and ran all the way to out 30m line. This reeks of an attitude problem.

Keep Moltz and Miller on their positions. I would have Politoni at hooker until Farah gets back. Let the kid know we have some faith in him. Carry 4 forwards on the bench and rotate them effectively.

I don't think we can beat Souths nor Brisbane…...but I did think Elliott made a lot of sense in the game summary on Fox...........

Too many guys don't have to fight for their spots in the team and that has never been good for morale. This is nothing new for our team. Folkesy's loss has hurt more than I expected.
 
Solutions? Halfback is a problem, as is fullback. Moltzen looks better at fullback than he does at halfback. But I think the Tigers need someone at fullback who can consistently make good metres in attack. I would consider Reddy or Ryan and consider giving Grant a taste of first grade.

I expect some will laugh at throwing Grant in there, but I ask everyone to take a good hard look at the Tigers backline, and tell me who is playing well, who isn't, and whether we have genuine speed out wide at the moment. Ryan is playing well, Marshall is the only person seemingly capable of generating try assists and line break assists, and that's about it.

The forwards are really missing Galloway and while I am a fan of Groat, he is going to take a while to really find his feet from the look of it. Woods is a different story, he has a good motor and goes forward consistently. I think the Tigers will well and truly miss Ellis next season unless they buy a top shelf backrower.

Defensively the team looks disorganised and is failing to slow the opposition around the ruck. This is the most worrying sign at the moment because it puts the team on the backfoot for the whole game.
 
We are not the team we were (players on field) as we were in early 2011

No gibbs, fafita, galloway, farah, tuquiri, dwyer, utai, lui and payten

For whatever reason they are not here, we cant have the same expectations of exciting wt brand football as we did last year
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I would consider playing Matthew Utai as a prop… He's the strongest ball runner we have and his defence would work as part of a pack.

Defence is what wins games. Rarely do the Tigers wrap up the ball and shut down the play. Defensive strategy should hinge on hitting hard and containing the ball.

Then once the attackers are contained, our backs can stop running one-out and passing it to Benji, who has been a marked man. Attacking flair will flourish when it is given the fertile ground afforded by the forwards hurting the opposition.It all starts with the forwards. Who have been the first men picked for Australia? People like Civoniceva, Webke, Roach etc. Why?

Because they smack the other team around. We have a good pack this year, they just need to find their harmony as a defensive unit and start hitting harder when carrying the ball. And EVERYONE needs to tackle the ball. Second and third-phase play is killing us.
 
1\. Stop attempting to go for big shoulder hits and make effective tackles
( I noticed Blair try a shoulder hit on our line last week which resulted in a try, and a few missed by groat tonight, also Blair getting in a rumble when raiders were on our line instead of helping defend ?)

2\. I understand we were sort of starved of possession but when we have been in the oppositions half or near the try line, we do not give our centres space to attempt to break tackles or set up our wingers, we have been hitting them with short passes when the defenders are in their face, this appears only effective with Ellis.

3\. Show more passion and spirit for you club
(Blair and moltzen, moltzen showed this in the dying minutes of tonight, but their is definitely a lack of cohesion or something missing in the team )

4\. When defending, our team should run up as a whole, instead of dawdling.

5\. Speed is an issue, throw grant in, as many have said it wont hurt us.

6\. Too many ball players. Look at our team tonight against the biggest pack in nrl.
Aside from benji, say if we have farah, we had moltzen, miller, humble, meaney.
That is 6.
We need faster or stronger hit ups and runs to make breaks, we have benji and farah to create, let players stay in positions they know and are used too, and stop being moved around sporadically, keep a consistency we know our players desperately need.

7\. Use interchange bench effectively

We appear to be chickens without heads atm, we need to step up, get things in order, and start being the tigers we know we can be
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Good thread, was going to start something similar.

I think we need to begin by looking at the positives vs negatives of our team. The bad news is, I think our strongest points are also our weaknesses.

First and foremost - TACKLE! 48 missed,averaging over 30 missed! that won't make the 8, let alone win the comp. Ours strength was our attack, our weakness is that it seems like all we want do is attack (although our scramble is fine, our man on man defence is rubbish).

Secondly - the 15 minutes at the end of the game today was the smoothest I've seen us since prince left. This sounds silly I know. What I'm referring to is humble actually played halfback, and Benji played 5/8\. It's not rocket science, you need two halves, a 9 and a 1\. Sheens wants them all to be able to ball play, so the solution is Humble 7 - Benji 6 - Robbie - 9 and Moltz -1 (although if it was up to me that would probably be Reddy or Beau). I'm absolutely serious that I haven't seen us with someone that decisive at 1st receiver in a long time, he would run an angle before passing, not just sideways, he would commit a defender and then give it to Benji, to distribute - unfortunately at this stage of their careers Moltz and Miller are not 1st grade halves and Humble can be. He also tackled as hard as he could, I was impressed.

So, that could be a big positive, i'm afraid its going to be a big negative. Its almost the reverse of the John Morris situation, where we tried to make a 7 (to some extent with Lui too). It looks like we have bought a good little 7 and want to use him as a 14 or 1.

third- DO NOT TALK TO THE MEDIA about "favouritism", "pressure", "attack", "our style" or anything else. When asked questions say "I don't know"! We look dumber and dumber every week, coming out and talking nonsense that no one believes or cares about. The players thing the media is like facebook or twitter, that they should just open up their hearts to the world. They don't realise the motivation they give to others, OR, the extra pressure they put on themselves by talking about pressure. And this is where the positive of having a great squad becomes a negative. The players don't want to be favourites. What an absolute joke. you work hard over a career to be the best, you become the best and then you say "I don't want this"! Have some bloody self-belief, the only reason this hurts all us is because we believe in you. This would not have hurt in 2003\. We would be talking about the spirit they showed in scrambling.

Finally - a huge positive, and also the biggest negative. We were 50% tonight, the raiders were 90%+. Half the teams in the comp (exceptions being Melbourne, Manly, Warriors, Broncos and maybe dogs, bunnies, dragqueens) would have lost 50 + to the raiders unless they were also at 90%+. We only need to play at 75% to beat the raiders at their best,that should be evident from the stats that show missed tackles, possession, field position and final score. Let's say we save one try, score one more then bang! We play mediocre and still have a good shot at winning. This should be obvious to all, we've seen it for years. The players can play, the coach can coach, we lack nothing in resources. We only lack attitude, and its all we ever lacked as a merged entity. Attitude is the difference between a good team playing 50% and an average team playing 90%. Tigers. Fix the attitude, play for each other,, play for Sheens, play for us and you will win the comp. Do anything less than that and don't bother showing up.
 
We need direction and a back to basics game plan to play in both halves of the field .how many times tonight did Fulton look from dummy half for the next play and no 7 or 6 were there to call the next play . We haven't had anyone to do this since prince left we need a specialist 7 . Maybe some defence work we are not big enough to wrestle got to be quick put them on the deck and get set
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@old man tiger said:
Good thread, was going to start something similar.

I think we need to begin by looking at the positives vs negatives of our team. The bad news is, I think our strongest points are also our weaknesses.

First and foremost - TACKLE! 48 missed,averaging over 30 missed! that won't make the 8, let alone win the comp. Ours strength was our attack, our weakness is that it seems like all we want do is attack (although our scramble is fine, our man on man defence is rubbish).

Secondly - the 15 minutes at the end of the game today was the smoothest I've seen us since prince left. This sounds silly I know. What I'm referring to is humble actually played halfback, and Benji played 5/8\. It's not rocket science, you need two halves, a 9 and a 1\. Sheens wants them all to be able to ball play, so the solution is Humble 7 - Benji 6 - Robbie - 9 and Moltz -1 (although if it was up to me that would probably be Reddy or Beau). I'm absolutely serious that I haven't seen us with someone that decisive at 1st receiver in a long time, he would run an angle before passing, not just sideways, he would commit a defender and then give it to Benji, to distribute - unfortunately at this stage of their careers Moltz and Miller are not 1st grade halves and Humble can be. He also tackled as hard as he could, I was impressed.

So, that could be a big positive, i'm afraid its going to be a big negative. Its almost the reverse of the John Morris situation, where we tried to make a 7 (to some extent with Lui too). It looks like we have bought a good little 7 and want to use him as a 14 or 1.

third- DO NOT TALK TO THE MEDIA about "favouritism", "pressure", "attack", "our style" or anything else. When asked questions say "I don't know"! We look dumber and dumber every week, coming out and talking nonsense that no one believes or cares about. The players thing the media is like facebook or twitter, that they should just open up their hearts to the world. They don't realise the motivation they give to others, OR, the extra pressure they put on themselves by talking about pressure. And this is where the positive of having a great squad becomes a negative. The players don't want to be favourites. What an absolute joke. you work hard over a career to be the best, you become the best and then you say "I don't want this"! Have some bloody self-belief, the only reason this hurts all us is because we believe in you. This would not have hurt in 2003\. We would be talking about the spirit they showed in scrambling.

Finally - a huge positive, and also the biggest negative. We were 50% tonight, the raiders were 90%+. Half the teams in the comp (exceptions being Melbourne, Manly, Warriors, Broncos and maybe dogs, bunnies, dragqueens) would have lost 50 + to the raiders unless they were also at 90%+. We only need to play at 75% to beat the raiders at their best,that should be evident from the stats that show missed tackles, possession, field position and final score. Let's say we save one try, score one more then bang! We play mediocre and still have a good shot at winning. This should be obvious to all, we've seen it for years. The players can play, the coach can coach, we lack nothing in resources. We only lack attitude, and its all we ever lacked as a merged entity. Attitude is the difference between a good team playing 50% and an average team playing 90%. Tigers. Fix the attitude, play for each other,, play for Sheens, play for us and you will win the comp. Do anything less than that and don't bother showing up.

Good post old man…some good points in amongst all that. I too thought Humble looked good at first reciever tonight as he did against Cronulla. I want to see him get a chance to show what he has got.

As for what you said about attitude, that is spot on. We have all seen what this side can do. The fact they are not doing it is puzzling and frustrating. We are starting to lose touch. We have to fix this ASAP.
 
I haven't coached at any sort of level so I'm not gonna have a go at who should be dropped or tactics and the like. To me Matt Elliot spoke alot of sense tonight. There are too many good players here so the problem is communication and attitude I think. We look like we have never played with eachother before. There is something going wrong there. I'm not promoting the disharmony card either. But something is defiantley amiss anoungst our group of players and the sooner they find it and bury it the better.
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