Sheens future Safe at Wests Tigers

Sirro,

But I think thats the point. Bon made this point a week ago. All coaches seem to make strange selections to fans. My question for you - who is better tactically, Sheens or Smith? I know who I rate.
 
@southerntiger said:
Sirro,

But I think thats the point. Bon made this point a week ago. All coaches seem to make strange selections to fans. My question for you - who is better tactically, Sheens or Smith? I know who I rate.

I think thats impossible to answer mate. Both have come up with great plans and ideas over the years, but by the same token, both come up with very strange things too. I think Smith is more versatile regarding tactics.
 
For those people who suggest that the Fonz has turned this club around, take a look at this stat.

The Wests Tigers, of all existing NRL teams almost have the worst Win/lose stat than any club. We are near the bottom.

Read it and weep people.

http://203.166.101.37/NRL/clubwinlossrecords.asp?lactive=1

Almost the worst team in the History of the NRL in regards to winning. And the Fonz has been the coach 70% of this time.

Where is your argument now ?????

Now lets look at the coaching winning percentages at Wests Tigers in order of most games won :-

Wayne Pearce 42.31%
**Tim Sheens 40.31%**
Terry Lamb 32%

At Noth Queensland The Fonz had an amazing 26.21% success rate. Are you all salivating ???
Hmmmmmmmmmm
\
\
Lets have a look at the success rate of the last 3 Cronulla coaches at that club **all of which have been sacked** . . .
Stuart Raper 42.47%
Chris Anderson 47.06%
John Lang 60.1%
all better than the Fonz

Lets have a look at the success rate of the last 3 Newcastle coaches at that club **all of which have been sacked** . . .
Brian Smith 45.59%
Michael hagan 53.9%
Warren Ryan 56.6%
all miles better than the Fonz
\
\
North Queensland you ask?
Graham Murray coached there for 6 years and was sacked after achieving a 49.07% winning rate.

Bulldogs ?
Steve Folkes got sacked with a 56.25% win ratio.

What do you think about these stats Simonthetiger?
 
@Balmain Bug said:
For those people who suggest that the Fonz has turned this club around, take a look at this stat.

The Wests Tigers, of all existing NRL teams have the worst Win/lose stat than any club. We are on the bottom.

Read it and weep people.

http://203.166.101.37/NRL/clubwinlossrecords.asp?lactive=1

And we are not on the bottom just, we are a long long way on the bottom. The worst team in the History of the NRL in regards to winning. And the Fonz has been the coach 70% of this time.

Where is your argument now ?????

Now lets look at the coaching winning percentages at Wests Tigers in order of most games won :-

Wayne Pearce 42.31%
**Tim Sheens 40.31%**
Terry Lamb 32%

At Noth Queensland The Fonz had an amazing 26.21% success rate. Are you all salivating ???
Hmmmmmmmmmm
\
\
Lets have a look at the success rate of the last 3 Cronulla coaches at that club **all of which have been sacked** . . .
Stuart Raper 42.47%
Chris Anderson 47.06%
John Lang 60.1%
all better than the Fonz

Lets have a look at the success rate of the last 3 Newcastle coaches at that club **all of which have been sacked** . . .
Brian Smith 45.59%
Michael hagan 53.9%
Warren Ryan 56.6%
all miles better than the Fonz
\
\
North Queensland you ask?
Graham Murray coached there for 6 years and was sacked after achieving a 49.07% winning rate.

Bulldogs ?
Steve Folkes got sacked with a 56.25% win ratio.

What do you think about these stats Simonthetiger?

NQ Cowboys have the worst record and Penrith are second worst…
 
@Balmain Bug said:
For those people who suggest that the Fonz has turned this club around, take a look at this stat.

The Wests Tigers, of all existing NRL teams have the worst Win/lose stat than any club. We are on the bottom.

Read it and weep people.

http://203.166.101.37/NRL/clubwinlossrecords.asp?lactive=1

And we are not on the bottom just, we are a long long way on the bottom. The worst team in the History of the NRL in regards to winning. And the Fonz has been the coach 70% of this time.

Where is your argument now ?????

Now lets look at the coaching winning percentages at Wests Tigers in order of most games won :-

Wayne Pearce 42.31%
**Tim Sheens 40.31%**
Terry Lamb 32%

At Noth Queensland The Fonz had an amazing 26.21% success rate. Are you all salivating ???
Hmmmmmmmmmm
\
\
Lets have a look at the success rate of the last 3 Cronulla coaches at that club **all of which have been sacked** . . .
Stuart Raper 42.47%
Chris Anderson 47.06%
John Lang 60.1%
all better than the Fonz

Lets have a look at the success rate of the last 3 Newcastle coaches at that club **all of which have been sacked** . . .
Brian Smith 45.59%
Michael hagan 53.9%
Warren Ryan 56.6%
all miles better than the Fonz
\
\
North Queensland you ask?
Graham Murray coached there for 6 years and was sacked after achieving a 49.07% winning rate.

Bulldogs ?
Steve Folkes got sacked with a 56.25% win ratio.

What do you think about these stats Simonthetiger?

WOW. Nice detective work there. Case closed.
 
@tiger sean said:
@Balmain Bug said:
For those people who suggest that the Fonz has turned this club around, take a look at this stat.

The Wests Tigers, of all existing NRL teams have the worst Win/lose stat than any club. We are on the bottom.

Read it and weep people.

http://203.166.101.37/NRL/clubwinlossrecords.asp?lactive=1

And we are not on the bottom just, we are a long long way on the bottom. The worst team in the History of the NRL in regards to winning. And the Fonz has been the coach 70% of this time.

Where is your argument now ?????

Now lets look at the coaching winning percentages at Wests Tigers in order of most games won :-

Wayne Pearce 42.31%
**Tim Sheens 40.31%**
Terry Lamb 32%

At Noth Queensland The Fonz had an amazing 26.21% success rate. Are you all salivating ???
Hmmmmmmmmmm
\
\
Lets have a look at the success rate of the last 3 Cronulla coaches at that club **all of which have been sacked** . . .
Stuart Raper 42.47%
Chris Anderson 47.06%
John Lang 60.1%
all better than the Fonz

Lets have a look at the success rate of the last 3 Newcastle coaches at that club **all of which have been sacked** . . .
Brian Smith 45.59%
Michael hagan 53.9%
Warren Ryan 56.6%
all miles better than the Fonz
\
\
North Queensland you ask?
Graham Murray coached there for 6 years and was sacked after achieving a 49.07% winning rate.

Bulldogs ?
Steve Folkes got sacked with a 56.25% win ratio.

What do you think about these stats Simonthetiger?

NQ Cowboys have the worst record and Penrith are second worst…

Exactly !!! Three of the 4 teams the Fonz had coached . . . . .
 
Ahh BB,found a stats site have we??.

My take on Sheensie's stats.

When he took on Penrith,us and the Cowgals,they were dead set rubbish…..RUBBISH.

The panthers were the laughing stock of the league.....and guess what,took them to the semis in his second year....dead set miracle with that team.

The cowgals.....well no one wanted to play for them and they had an awful side,he did a hell of a job up there with limited everything,and he successor reaped the benefits of his work.

Us.....rabble number three.......was there a team in more trouble than us???From the board to the players and even coaching staff.......awful.6 years and we are an attraactive team with a big fat comp woooooooooooot....and competetive every game.

The only decent side the bloke has ever coached and they made the semis 8/9 years and won the comp three times.

The bloke has a history of getting absloute rabble sides and building them into competetive forces.

Exactly what he has done for us.

If he had coached decent teams he would have a win ratio of around 65-70% i reckon,like he had at the Raiders.

The bloke is a dead set legend.....Im so happy we have him and I cant believe that peanuts on web sites are taking pot shots at him,rather than thanking their lucky stars that he is here.
 
@simonthetiger said:
Ahh BB,found a stats site have we??.

My take on Sheensie's stats.

When he took on Penrith,us and the Cowgals,they were dead set rubbish…..RUBBISH.

The panthers were the laughing stock of the league.....and guess what,took them to the semis in his second year....dead set miracle with that team.

The cowgals.....well no one wanted to play for them and they had an awful side,he did a hell of a job up there with limited everything,and he successor reaped the benefits of his work.

Us.....rabble number three.......was there a team in more trouble than us???From the board to the players and even coaching staff.......awful.6 years and we are an attraactive team with a big fat comp woooooooooooot....and competetive every game.

The only decent side the bloke has ever coached and they made the semis 8/9 years and won the comp three times.

The bloke has a history of getting absloute rabble sides and building them into competetive forces.

Exactly what he has done for us.

If he had coached decent teams he would have a win ratio of around 65-70% i reckon,like he had at the Raiders.

The bloke is a dead set legend.....Im so happy we have him and I cant believe that peanuts on web sites are taking pot shots at him,rather than thanking their lucky stars that he is here.

Well said Simon, I agree with your view. He did take the WT who were training all over the place, consolidated everything at Concord, he certainly made us a much more professional outfit.
 
like Tim Sheens or not, he has achieved at the club what we all yearned/longed desired for.
to win a comp.
yes, since then, we all would have liked a better end to the seasons, like making the finals, but for numerous reasons, too many to mention, the team was simply not good enough.
this year will be different, we will just have to watch, wait and see.
 
@Balmain Bug said:
For those people who suggest that the Fonz has turned this club around, take a look at this stat.

The Wests Tigers, of all existing NRL teams almost have the worst Win/lose stat than any club. We are near the bottom.

Read it and weep people.

http://203.166.101.37/NRL/clubwinlossrecords.asp?lactive=1

Almost the worst team in the History of the NRL in regards to winning. And the Fonz has been the coach 70% of this time.

Where is your argument now ?????

Now lets look at the coaching winning percentages at Wests Tigers in order of most games won :-

Wayne Pearce 42.31%
**Tim Sheens 40.31%**
Terry Lamb 32%

Really Bug really?

I have another stats site and it differs greatly from what you have posted, did a calculation my self to check and came up with the same stats ….

Games-Wins-Draws-Losses-Win Percentage
Tim Sheens - 172 - 79 - 0 - 93 - **45.93%**
Wayne Pierce - 26 - 11 - 2 - 13 - 42.31%
Terry Lamb - 50 - 16 - 1 - 33 - 32.00%

A win ratio of 40.31% would calculate to 80.6 wins from 200 games, as Sheens already has 79 wins with another 28 games left before he even reaches 200 its obvious 40.31% is way of the mark.

You do know how to do percentages don’t you Bug, of course you do you got all the other coach stats correct, all except Tim Sheens which by chance helps your argument, anything you say from here on about Tim Sheens and any stats you put forward means absolutely **ZERO**

:laughing:
 
@simonthetiger said:
The bloke has a history of getting absloute rabble sides and building them into competetive forces.

Exactly what he has done for us.

If he had coached decent teams he would have a win ratio of around 65-70% i reckon,like he had at the Raiders.

**The bloke is a dead set legend…..Im so happy we have him and I cant believe that peanuts on web sites are taking pot shots at him,rather than thanking their lucky stars that he is here.**

I Agree 100%

Head coach is more so a man mananagment and strategic role these days

Fan day today has proved to me more than ever just how big the Footballing dept is and how many people it takes…
 
Bug just when I think I have misjudged you, out comes another stupid post. Comparing stats from a one season coach (Pearce) with a 7 season coach in Sheens is meaningless. This is not to mention the fact that Pearce had $8million to spend in 2000 whereas Sheens had about $8 in 2003.

All your other comparisons suffer from the same problem. None of them are reliable from a statistical perspective. This is not to mention the fact that you stats for Sheens are not correct.

When Sheens came to the club Fitzy was our first choice 5/8th and Lincoln Withers/Ben Jeffries were our first choice half backs. Nick Bradley Qualilawa was our most promising young player. And you dont think Sheens has done good for this club. Thats enough for me.
 
@simonthetiger said:
Ahh BB,found a stats site have we??.

My take on Sheensie's stats.

When he took on Penrith,us and the Cowgals,they were dead set rubbish…..RUBBISH.

The panthers were the laughing stock of the league.....and guess what,took them to the semis in his second year....dead set miracle with that team.

The cowgals.....well no one wanted to play for them and they had an awful side,he did a hell of a job up there with limited everything,and he successor reaped the benefits of his work.

Us.....rabble number three.......was there a team in more trouble than us???From the board to the players and even coaching staff.......awful.6 years and we are an attraactive team with a big fat comp woooooooooooot....and competetive every game.

The only decent side the bloke has ever coached and they made the semis 8/9 years and won the comp three times.

The bloke has a history of getting absloute rabble sides and building them into competetive forces.

Exactly what he has done for us.

If he had coached decent teams he would have a win ratio of around 65-70% i reckon,like he had at the Raiders.

The bloke is a dead set legend.....Im so happy we have him and I cant believe that peanuts on web sites are taking pot shots at him,rather than thanking their lucky stars that he is here.

Have to agree with your comments, WT are in a far better position now than ever before Coach Sheens came on board.

Having the cattle makes all the difference - eg no wonder the Broncos were so strong for years, a one town team with just about all Qld to pick from for so many years…....

Sheens really does develop a team franchise, his players are loyal - just refer to Farah, Benji, Lote, Gareth and everyone who say - as players - they sign because Tim is the coach etc etc.......
 
This Bug post is actually a great example of some problems with the anti-Sheens argument. I have gone on record saying that Sheens' contract should NOT be renewed before the beginning of the season. There are legitimate arguments as to why Sheens contract should not be renewed, namely that he has had the opportunity and has not delivered. That is a fair call, to some degree. If we had not played as well as we did at the back end of last season I would probably be supporting that argument. However, the performances last year sold me on Sheens' vision for the current side.

Apart from the examples mentioned above, it should also be noted that Bug wrongly stated that the Knights sacked Smith and Warren Ryan. Warren Ryan retired and was not sacked by the knights. We all know Smith wasnt sacked. Given it happened last year you would think such a league expert like Bug would know this as well.

OVER REACHING!!!!
 
@southerntiger said:
This Bug post is actually a great example of some problems with the anti-Sheens argument. I have gone on record saying that Sheens' contract should NOT be renewed before the beginning of the season. There are legitimate arguments as to why Sheens contract should not be renewed, namely that he has had the opportunity and has not delivered. That is a fair call, to some degree. If we had not played as well as we did at the back end of last season I would probably be supporting that argument. However, the performances last year sold me on Sheens' vision for the current side.

Apart from the examples mentioned above, it should also be noted that Bug wrongly stated that the Knights sacked Smith and Warren Ryan. Warren Ryan retired and was not sacked by the knights. We all know Smith wasnt sacked. Given it happened last year you would think such a league expert like Bug would know this as well.

OVER REACHING!!!!

Sacked / resigned ? Both were sacked.
 
@PrattenParkMagpie said:
@Balmain Bug said:
For those people who suggest that the Fonz has turned this club around, take a look at this stat.

The Wests Tigers, of all existing NRL teams almost have the worst Win/lose stat than any club. We are near the bottom.

Read it and weep people.

http://203.166.101.37/NRL/clubwinlossrecords.asp?lactive=1

Almost the worst team in the History of the NRL in regards to winning. And the Fonz has been the coach 70% of this time.

Where is your argument now ?????

Now lets look at the coaching winning percentages at Wests Tigers in order of most games won :-

Wayne Pearce 42.31%
**Tim Sheens 40.31%**
Terry Lamb 32%

Really Bug really?

I have another stats site and it differs greatly from what you have posted, did a calculation my self to check and came up with the same stats ….

Games-Wins-Draws-Losses-Win Percentage
Tim Sheens - 172 - 79 - 0 - 93 - **45.93%**
Wayne Pierce - 26 - 11 - 2 - 13 - 42.31%
Terry Lamb - 50 - 16 - 1 - 33 - 32.00%

A win ratio of 40.31% would calculate to 80.6 wins from 200 games, as Sheens already has 79 wins with another 28 games left before he even reaches 200 its obvious 40.31% is way of the mark.

You do know how to do percentages don’t you Bug, of course you do you got all the other coach stats correct, all except Tim Sheens which by chance helps your argument, anything you say from here on about Tim Sheens and any stats you put forward means absolutely **ZERO**

:laughing:

PPM
they are not my stats they are the stats of the Official Australian Stats agency that is used by the NRL.
 
Coaching is a lot more than just win/loss ratios and stats guys.
Coaching is about being a mentor to players, being able to communicate and develop young players of the modern era and much more. If the players have the mutual respect of the coach, then that is already key to long term success. No respect, no long term success. Simple as that.
Many saw today what is involved to coach a team and run the club. Did you see a bunch of rabble out there on the field at Concord? A bunch of misfits who looked like the Bad News Bears or Mighty Ducks? You saw a professional outfit who have their game on whether it be behind closed doors or open to public.
One main thing i usually consider when i look at a coach's ability is: Do players improve under that coach. If the answer is yes, they that is also a tick of approval towards long term success. If players become stagnant more often than not, then this usually sets off alarm bells for me meaning there is actually coaching techniques applied incorrectly or inefficiently.
As far as players who have come and gone under the Sheens regime, IMO i would say Tim has a fairly decent strike rate, regardless of a player's natural ability. There are a few that come to mind but not many player's careers that Sheens has ruined so to speak.
In recent times i have monitored Brian Smith's coaching abilities, and have found myself asking a few questions to make sense of what has happened to him and how he became sacked from a few clubs which have left plenty scratching their heads. From what we all know of him and how he handles himself publicly, he is a no nonsense type of coach, who is willing to call a spade a spade. Clean out the house with a dust broom and get his hands dirty.
I usually think this has a lot to do with hierarchy within a club and how the coach imposes himself within that club. For example, Brian Smith has gone to clubs and really turned their fortunes and momentum around in years gone by, and after he manages to do so, there is a following trend…they turn on him and bite the hand that feeds. From players to club boards. There must be a lot more to this that meets the eye. I've come to a few theories of how this may eventuate. It can come to either a coach who gives his players too much power, or a board who does not like the authority of power the coach has introduced to a club, to clubs who are hard set in their "traditional" ways and not willing to accommodate for change.
There are certain key people who should hold a lot of power at a club: coach, club CEO, club board, team captain. When the power of authority is not in the correct order, then usually this is the start of the in-house problems arising.
We all saw what happened when Longmuir was promoted from within, there were a few things which went under the radar to which has not even been made public. And not long after, with Humphreys at the helm, the club once again takes a sharp turn. From what happens within the club heirarchy, always rears itself in true form in public which can be seen when put under the microscope.
Now going back to Sheens, i sometimes question his selections, but they are just experimental or plans he has in place, which is fair enough. Many of which i don't agree on, but that is just personal. I've even thought he's lost the plot with what he does sometimes!! But boxes of approval are ticked for thinking differently and outside the square.
But as far as i'm concerned as he is the club coach, then i really don't see a need for warranting sacking at this stage. I believe he holds the correct amount of power at the club to make things happen. That is one of the main objectives for WT long term success. Many on here hail the great Humphreys for what he has already achieved since his inception, but you can thank Sheens a lot for what has happened too. Many of you don't see what is going on behind closed doors at the club to suggest otherwise.
If Sheens has the backing of the board, his CEO, his team captain and the rest of the key staff and most of all, the mutual respect from the players, then that in itself means he must be doing something right at the WT and can only be a good thing.
 
good post CT. and to better understand Sheens better to read 'Forever Brothers' - Sheens has done a lot - dont always agree with selections but im happy he's steering our ship for now.
 
@simonthetiger said:
The only decent side the bloke has ever coached and they made the semis 8/9 years and won the comp three times.

The bloke has a history of getting absloute rabble sides and building them into competetive forces.

Exactly what he has done for us.

If he had coached decent teams he would have a win ratio of around 65-70% i reckon,like he had at the Raiders.

The bloke is a dead set legend…..Im so happy we have him and I cant believe that peanuts on web sites are taking pot shots at him,rather than thanking their lucky stars that he is here.

We have had a decent squad for the last 4 years. Definately not the best in the league but good enough to make the finals. This year should be his last chance. You can't miss the finals for half a decade and expect to stay.
 
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