Sheens has lost the dressing room........

[watersider]

Which players do you all think should be dropped at the moment?

Mullaney for Mckinnon?
Miller for Lui?

Anyone else?

If those are the only contentious decisions in the side then there is little that you all disagree with. Everyone would agree that Lui is a talented player, most would also be willing to say that his form is poor at the moment. So what do you do with talented players who are in poor form? Dropping them is rarely a good way of improving form, can anyone come up with an example where that worked?

As for McKinnon, I've argued all season that Moltzen should be first choice fullback. But, that option is probably even less desirable to forum users then retaining McKinnon there. I can understand why people want him dropped, and I personally agree that he should. But, I can also understand why he is there. he is a proven first grader who has played well at times this year. I haven't seen Mullaney put in a better first grade performance.

All this frustration about team selections ignores the fact that there isn't much changes that can be made.

 

[innsaneink]

You make a good point to an extent watersider…..no point putting in a rookie for the sake of it, particulalry if hes not ready... just to replace a first grader out of form, it could be disastrous for the rookie.
But this about much much more than just a loss of form.
Its a loss of trust, respect and team spirit imo.

 

[watersider]

I think the point Innsaneink is that we are in realy bad form and haven't really hit our stride this season. I think it is because the side DOES HAVE TEAM SPIRIT and respect that we are in a competitive situation. You don't come from 22-0 down with 20 to go and win if you don't have spirit. Again today, I didn't see the side give up or show a lack of respect. I saw a side out of wack trying to get back into gear…and fail.

I think the poor form can be put down to injuries, players recovering from injuries and changes to the interpretation of the play the balls. All of that has meant we are out of sync. I don't think the player movement helps either. None of this has much to do with Sheens. We are hyperventilating over things the coach has little influence over.

 

[MightyMaggy]

I think the point Innsaneink is that we are in realy bad form and haven't really hit our stride this season. I think it is because the side DOES HAVE TEAM SPIRIT and respect that we are in a competitive situation. You don't come from 22-0 down with 20 to go and win if you don't have spirit. Again today, I didn't see the side give up or show a lack of respect. I saw a side out of wack trying to get back into gear…and fail.

I think the poor form can be put down to injuries, players recovering from injuries and changes to the interpretation of the play the balls. All of that has meant we are out of sync. I don't think the player movement helps either. **None of this has much to do with Sheens**. We are hyperventilating over things the coach has little influence over.

I don't know where you have been Watersider, but this HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH SHEENS. If you go back a couple of years ago, he was asked by HIS CEO to meet some basic requirements in his job. Sheens had not been asked to perform well in his job up to that moment, even though he turned a premiership winning team into a bunch of also rans.
Sheens reply was to run to some of the management and have the CEO removed! Sheens does not respond well to any form of criticism and it would appear that Humphries simply kowtows to Sheens.
Don't you wonder why the Cowboys let him go in the middle of his contract term?
Problems like the Tigers have at present start at the top! The top in this case IS THE BOARD, because they are the only people, who have the power to change the CEO AND THE COACH!
Maybe the day will come, when the joint-venture becomes a normal, limited, public company, so the board is answerable to a bigger number of share-holders, like us supporters. This will mean the top brass, and therefore the team, will have to perform or they will be chucked OUT!

 

[Tiger_heart]

I think the point Innsaneink is that we are in realy bad form and haven't really hit our stride this season. I think it is because the side DOES HAVE TEAM SPIRIT and respect that we are in a competitive situation. You don't come from 22-0 down with 20 to go and win if you don't have spirit. Again today, I didn't see the side give up or show a lack of respect. I saw a side out of wack trying to get back into gear…and fail.

I think the poor form can be put down to injuries, players recovering from injuries and changes to the interpretation of the play the balls. All of that has meant we are out of sync. I don't think the player movement helps either. None of this has much to do with Sheens. We are hyperventilating over things the coach has little influence over.

Waterside, a reminder that the posts you are reading might as well be dated back to 2006, for what we have been "hyperventilating" about are chronic issues that this coach and manangement have failed to address and selfishly continue to deny their existence. Let's not miss the elephant in the room, please!

 

[softlaw]

So:
- player movements that we initiated (all of them);
- how our gameplan and selections evolve to fit in with new rule interpretations; and
- how we bring our depth players along to cover for injuries (remembering that at the start of the season everyone was saying how our depth was fabulous this year and that was what was going to give us the real boost when needed).

None of these have anything to do with the head coach?

 

[LCA]

two words ….. steve georgalis. at least he gets commitment and desire from his players

Based on what? Two weeks of Penrith winning games?? C'mon, who had heard of the guy before he took over? Who was spruiking this bloke as a future NRL coach?? Maybe it's a reflection of the team's relief from Elliott being punted and Gould flexing some muscle rather than Georgalis' ability to generate desire and commitment from his players. Give me a break…...please.

 

[LCA]

"Maybe the day will come, when the joint-venture becomes a normal, limited, public company, so the board is answerable to a bigger number of share-holders, like us supporters. This will mean the top brass, and therefore the team, will have to perform or they will be chucked OUT!"

And, Mighty Maggy, won't that be interesting? Supporters deciding who becomes the coach and the board. We can't get any agreement on issues on here let alone on who should coach us. I think Watersider made some very valid points.

 

[Balmain_Bug]

LCA, Georgallis is highly regarged by his players. Ask Petero and Luke Lewis. He is an outstanding coach.

 

[supercoach]

LCA, Georgallis is highly regarged by his players. Ask Petero and Luke Lewis. He is an outstanding coach.

Mate would come with half the price tag and half the ego and probably do twice the job. What ever it costs to flick Sheens it will be money well spent

 

[watersider]

To criticise Sheens is one thing, to suggest Georgallis as a replacement is something else altogether. George speaks well and seems to be a solid coach, this is yet to be proven. The club has taken a punt with Wayne Pearce, tommy raudonakis, Terry Lamb before and it didn't work. All were excellent prospects. can we stay on topic please. It is typical of people's analysis of the game on here though that this is actually talked about as a credible solution.

 

[Tigersmurf]

I can't believe that forum members are talking up Georgalis, a guy with two first grade wins to his name, because the players think he is a good bloke! Didn't Freddy hold the same record at the chooks?

If he is our only other option then Sheens has to stay. Remember Terry Lamb? He had the credentials in the lower grades and we gave him a shot and look where that got us! I am sure recruitment would be easy under Georgalis when compared to the current national coach.

 

[watersider]

The biggest factor for our lacklustre season:

2010 Top 8:

1 St. George Illawarra Dragons
2 Penrith Panthers
3 Wests Tigers
4 Gold Coast Titans
5 New Zealand Warriors
6 Sydney Roosters
7 Canberra Raiders
8 Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles

How many of those sides are doing well this year? Answer: two.

It is very hard to maintain success in the NRL. Ask bulldogs '09, Parra '09, Can '10, Pen '10, SYD '10\. It is not hard to find examples. We are doing pretty well compared to most of the other teams in the top 8 last year. But it seems to take 2-3 years to build to a finals campaign in the NRL and when you get there it is very hard to get back there. We are competitive this year despite a big injury toll and despite rule changes which do not favour our style of play. Now, you may argue we should change our style of play and if you are making that argument the best way to do that is to make player changes, which is exactly what we are doing. You can't do that instantly and it does cause disruption.

So, if your argument is that we should change our style of play. The answer to that is we have tried this year and it has been horrible. These players cannot play conservative, consistent play. They are creative and explosive. So, the teams attempt to change the roster is in line with WHAT YOU WANT. I perosnally prefer last nights play to what we have done most of the season which has been bland and predictable football. I think last nights match is a sign that there is still life in this season. Its just a matter of refining their play rather than blowing it up.

If your argument is that we should be playing as well as last year, then you need to look at the injury form and the way it has affected our cohesion and confidence. Lawrence was a good example last night. It was great to see him back but he and Brown need time to gel, that is the first match they have played together. Unfortunately, there has been no stability this season because of injuries. All of the calls to change the side would only contribute to the problems, not fix them.

 

[Deano1]

Who Sheens would be replaced with is a topic for another thread…...but the one thing to me that appears pretty clear is that the topic of this thread is correct. The way the team is performing absolutely smacks of it.

ANYBODY that's played a team sport for long enough knows that if the team has issues with the coach or management, their onfield performances suffer, I don't care how professional they are meant to be, it's a part of life and it's a part of sport.

IMHO we had a perfect replacement coach in the wings, FOLKES..... and guess what.....HE'S GONE TOO!!!! :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

 

[tiger_tigers]

The biggest factor for our lacklustre season:

2010 Top 8:

1 St. George Illawarra Dragons
2 Penrith Panthers
3 Wests Tigers
4 Gold Coast Titans
5 New Zealand Warriors
6 Sydney Roosters
7 Canberra Raiders
8 Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles

How many of those sides are doing well this year? Answer: two.

It is very hard to maintain success in the NRL. Ask bulldogs '09, Parra '09, Can '10, Pen '10, SYD '10\. It is not hard to find examples. We are doing pretty well compared to most of the other teams in the top 8 last year. But it seems to take 2-3 years to build to a finals campaign in the NRL and when you get there it is very hard to get back there. We are competitive this year despite a big injury toll and despite rule changes which do not favour our style of play. Now, you may argue we should change our style of play and if you are making that argument the best way to do that is to make player changes, which is exactly what we are doing. You can't do that instantly and it does cause disruption.

So, if your argument is that we should change our style of play. The answer to that is we have tried this year and it has been horrible. These players cannot play conservative, consistent play. They are creative and explosive. So, the teams attempt to change the roster is in line with WHAT YOU WANT. I perosnally prefer last nights play to what we have done most of the season which has been bland and predictable football. I think last nights match is a sign that there is still life in this season. Its just a matter of refining their play rather than blowing it up.

If your argument is that we should be playing as well as last year, then you need to look at the injury form and the way it has affected our cohesion and confidence. Lawrence was a good example last night. It was great to see him back but he and Brown need time to gel, that is the first match they have played together. Unfortunately, there has been no stability this season because of injuries. All of the calls to change the side would only contribute to the problems, not fix them.

well if we go on your reasons then lets just be happy we wont be playing in the finals , and lets just agree the bounce hasnt favoured us this but rugby league will still be the winner in the end ….you personally prefer last nights play to what we have this season ... mate we got beat 22-6 by one of the most lacklustre sides in the comp ...they also got us 30 blot in a trial.. with a bunch of old guys .. not that trials matter ,,, but sheens hasnt been able to consistanly get these guys up for years......

 

[Defiant]

If Sheens has no KPI's in his new deal then its time for Wests and Balmain to reclaim the club and clean the whole place out from the top down. 2 finals in how many years and its not as if its hard to finish in the top half.

I posted elsewhere …. we have no one but ourselves to blame.

Just to rub it in Parra were rubbish. A good team would have put 50+ on us.

 

[softlaw]

1 St. George Illawarra Dragons - one of the ones doing well this year - 6 finals appearances since (and including) '03
2 Penrith Panthers - made the finals 3 times since (and including) '03 almost as bad as us
3 Wests Tigers - TWO finals appearances since tim the joke sheens started here in '03
4 Gold Coast Titans - started in '07\. Made the finals 2 out of 4 years
5 New Zealand Warriors - made the finals 4 times since '03
6 Sydney Roosters - 4 finals appearances since '03
7 Canberra Raiders - 5 finals appearances since '03
8 Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles - 6 finals appearances since '03

and the rest of the comp in the order they finished last year just for the fun of it
souffs - a joke of a club - finally, someone WORSE than us with only 1 appearance since '03
Brisbane - 7 finals appearances since 03
Newcastle - 3 finals appearances since '03
Parra - 4
Dogs - 5
Sharks - 2 - WOOHOO someone as bad as we are
Nth Qld - 3
Melbourne - 7

geeze i'm glad we've got sheens. Since he's been here we've made the finals more than souffs! And we've matched the record of the Sharks and Gold Coast (fine print the'y started in '07 but anyway)

But it doesn;t matter. If you look at last year others are doing as badly as we are too! So it's all OK then.
Don;t worry. Be happy!
We're rebuilding. We've been unlucky. Injuries affect us more. We don;t get afternoon games. The refs don;t like us. The sun got in my eyes.

Every other team has to put up with the same stuff we do. They just manage it better by tieing results to whether or not the coach has a job.

But you keep looking forward to next year. We probably won;t be in the 8 this year so we'll be right when those other teams who make the 8 this year fail next year. Or maybe the year after. Or maybe…..

 

[tiger05]

Sheens spoke well in the ABC interview. The players do need to take some responsibility.

Plus he took some responsibility for the loss.

 

[magpiecol]

Sheens spoke well in the ABC interview. The players do need to take some responsibility.

Plus he took some responsibility for the loss.

How? They have played pretty much the same way all year. No reponsibility there.

Sheen's took some responsibility? Great. How is he going to fix things?

Has he ever, I repeat ever, dropped a player for poor form??

He is a good (not great) coach, but I agree with the majority of people on this subject, he has lost the players and it is time to go.

Grant Jones could fill in for him and he would likely do a better job.

From last nights game, Farah should get his leg/groin fixed asap. I mean next week. Nadira can fill in. Mckinnon bombed at least two tries last night, ( remember he let in two tries last week) he has to go. Mullaney has to be given a go. He would have scored a couple last night, just by his backing up ability. Brown had a shocker. He is so far behind play that it is not funny. He left Lawrence posted last night. Where the bloody hell was he? If Lote was there maybe a couple of tries.

Lui? the less said the better. (even though he scored a try, he bombed one as well.)

I have followed Wests/rugby league for over 50 years, but I am really over this team as it is a present.

 

[barra]

At the moment it seems Sheens has the club's support in working on a bigger picture than this season. So we will have to suck it in for now and see what unfolds for the next 8 rounds. And it may be a rough ride.

But surely if there is a poor finish to this year, and the team is again performing poorly next year after the cleanout/restructure, there will be a lot of pressure for Sheens to go before the back end of the seaon.