Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[2041]

jesus can we not be so biased. Thommo is nowhere near the skill set of paps. Paps is younger faster and has room to grow. Thommo has played for years and should be the best he can be. Is he good yeah he is ok. Is he a game-breaker.... no. does he make mistakes he shouldn't .... yes, is he all heart... of course.

But please if you think ct is better the pap your having a laugh

Don't entirely agree.

In some regards Corey is a superior player than Paps - better at taking hitups, more tackle breaks (100 in 22 games vs 64 in 21 games), proven at FB and wing, more wily in attack, better defender. He has score 9 tries vs 8 for Paps and weighs 12 kg more. I'd argue Corey has a better step / movement in terms of evading defenders, rather than the explosiveness Paps has

Paps is undoubtedly faster both in terms of explosive speed and top speed.This certainly helps him break tackles and burst through holes. It also helps his fullback positioning, because although I don't think he is top-shelf for positioning, he is fast enough to make up for it. Paps appears superior at taking bombs to Corey.

Paps has basically no passing game at all, though Corey doesn't have one either, Corey does have a decent offload. Watch Paps closely and he has an odd passing technique off both sides, so it's not just fullback distribution, it's just his basic passing ability.

So IMO Corey is like an old red brick house and Paps is like a new 5-bedroom duplex. One is definitely shinier and swish, but the other one is tried and tested over a much longer career.

Personally, my main concern with a bloke like Paps is if he has one serious leg injury, as a skinny little fellow, that could be it in terms of his pace. And if his pace goes, I don't know what else he has. He's courageous, can take a tackle and is good at sniffing around, but IMO that all centres around his natural acceleration. I think far too many people see a fast player and think that's it, you can bank his career. I'm wary of big-money offers so soon after his debut.

Raiders on the weekend pretty much shut Paps down every time. I think he made 1 good line break on kick return. But they knew he was 99% going to run, not pass, and typically covered him across field and smothered him. Paps doesn't seem to jink back inside so often (he steps to the outside) and basically can't shrug off a proper 1-1 tackle because of his size.

This is not to slight Paps, just to temper some of the fever on his recent form. Commentators on telly love to talk up anything, even the way they were going on about BJ Leilua's eyeball or Farah's late-game inclusion - not nearly as big a deal as they make out, for the purpose of theatrics.

I've been watching footy for decades and seen plenty of players pop up relying heavily on 1 attribute, but ultimately small skinny footballers need a complete package to take their career to next-level.

I'm not sure what stats you're looking at but Paps destroys Corey in tackle and line breaks.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/teams/telstra-premiership/wests-tigers/corey-thompson/

https://www.melbournestorm.com.au/teams/telstra-premiership/melbourne-storm/ryan-papenhuyzen/

These show Thompson with 100 tackle breaks and 11 line breaks, Paps with 64 tackle breaks and 14 line breaks. So yeah, the official stats is what OP was referring to.

To be fair, judging this by games played doesn't take into account the fact that Thompson has played 80 minutes in basically every game where Paps has come off the bench a lot. So tackle breaks per minute is probably more in Paps's favour and in line breaks obviously he's well clear (though it probably helps to be coming on fresh against tiring teams in that respect).

Paps has played 80 in his last four games and recorded 26 tackle breaks. Thompson has 20.

So yeah, in a sense you're both wrong. The stats are a misleading because of the minutes played thing, but equally Paps certainly doesn't "destroy" Thompson in tackle breaks.

 

[Elderslie_Tiger]

@Russell
Why not both

 

[jirskyr]

I’m not sure what stats you’re looking at but Paps destroys Corey in tackle and line breaks.

If by "destroy" you mean slightly ahead on line breaks and miles behind in tackle breaks, then yeah, Paps "destroys" Corey.

nrl.com

edit: @2041 beat me to the post.

 

[jirskyr]

So yeah, in a sense you’re both wrong.

I just said Corey has more tackle breaks. I'd be happy to look at "breaks per minute" if someone cared to figure that out, but I don't suppose it's super important.

 

[Elderslie_Tiger]

@Russell
Why not both

Both LEILAU'S

 

[Russell]

@Russell
Why not both

Both LEILAU'S

Why not indeed - Personally though am not a fan of Joey (too much of a loose cannon, can win you a game but can lose one as well).

 

[TSupps05]

@jirskyr In more than half of Paps games he had come off the bench with 5-10 mins left. Only pretty recently has he started at fb

 

[balmain boy]

I’m not sure what stats you’re looking at but Paps destroys Corey in tackle and line breaks.

If by "destroy" you mean slightly ahead on line breaks and miles behind in tackle breaks, then yeah, Paps "destroys" Corey.

nrl.com

edit: @2041 beat me to the post.

Paps has played half the games that Thompson has. How on earth can you compare season totals when total playing minutes aren't remotely similar

 

[Sart0ri]

I think our priority signings for 2021 should be Tom (22) and Jake (25) Trbojevic. Tom is one of the best fullbacks in the game, is only 22 and has room to improve in skill and physically. Jake is one of the best forwards in the game, a leader, plays big minutes, and improves a teams defence.

They might be hard to pry out of Manly but we should try very hard to get them.

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr In more than half of Paps games he had come off the bench with 5-10 mins left. Only pretty recently has he started at fb

If we are going to start down that path, by all means, but I know historically lots of folks don't much care for granular stats analysis.

Yes maybe Paps played less minutes. Maybe he got better ball from better footballers. Maybe Storm players make more tackle busts anyway, regardless of who they are, because Storm are an ace side.

Maybe Corey gets "bad passes". Maybe Corey has the same # touches as Paps. Corey didn't start the year at fullback. Corey has been injured and Paps hasn't.

Paps is younger, Corey is more experienced.

You can look at it 1 million ways, no way is absolutely correct. But just in pure numbers, Corey is up there amongst "the people who played fullback a bit" and Paps is by no means a superstar, statistically, either.

If you have to start boiling it down to minutes player or quality of opposition or some such, it weakens your argument. My argument being that Corey Thompson is an average, sometimes good, fullback and Paps is a 2-dimensional footballer (speed and good hands) at this stage. Paps has been playing first grade for 5 minutes and Corey for half a career, so it's all relative.

 

[jirskyr]

Paps has played half the games that Thompson has. How on earth can you compare season totals when total playing minutes aren't remotely similar

Ah don't start moving the goal posts on me. You said he destroys Corey, and he doesn't. I made a post 2 seconds ago, if you want to start talking minutes played then you are heavily diluting your argument, in my opinion.

For example, why does Paps play a bunch of games off the bench? Some players do all their damage off the bench - Josh Papalii didn't even start the match on Saturday and he's one of the best in-form props in the comp.

If Corey did indeed play more minutes, you can argue his stats are tempered by all the hard work he had to do, with an inferior roster. Paps potentially came on against destroyed defences with lop-sided scores and was able to rack up stats against demoralised opposition.

All speculative arguments, chock full of opinion and personal preference. I can understand all the arguments, just don't tell me Paps destroys Corey, then when it's shown he doesn't, you need to start counting "minutes played".

 

[matchball]

I think our priority signings for 2021 should be Tom (22) and Jake (25) Trbojevic. Tom is one of the best fullbacks in the game, is only 22 and has room to improve in skill and physically. Jake is one of the best forwards in the game, a leader, plays big minutes, and improves a teams defence.

They might be hard to pry out of Manly but we should try very hard to get them.

They will command $1 million dollars each. Everyone lining up to sign them.

 

[Sart0ri]

They will command $1 million dollars each. Everyone lining up to sign them.

Yes, top level fullbacks are rare and most of them are locked up for the next few years.

I'm not saying I have identified cheap undiscovered talent, but they would make a huge improvement to most teams and if you are going to pay big money for stars, they would be the ones I would go for.

 

[tigerap]

I think our priority signings for 2021 should be Tom (22) and Jake (25) Trbojevic. Tom is one of the best fullbacks in the game, is only 22 and has room to improve in skill and physically. Jake is one of the best forwards in the game, a leader, plays big minutes, and improves a teams defence.

They might be hard to pry out of Manly but we should try very hard to get them.

They will take unders to stay at Manly....They have no intention of leaving Manly ever!. What a shame our departed big 3 didn't have the same attitude to our club as Jake and Tom!

 

[matchball]

They will command $1 million dollars each. Everyone lining up to sign them.

Yes, top level fullbacks are rare and most of them are locked up for the next few years.

I'm not saying I have identified cheap undiscovered talent, but they would make a huge improvement to most teams and if you are going to pay big money for stars, they would be the ones I would go for.

Yes they would. It's just the money that rules us out of these kind of signings.
If we get a junior through the system, we end up losing those to big money clubs.
We can't win.

 

[2041]

So yeah, in a sense you’re both wrong.

I just said Corey has more tackle breaks. I'd be happy to look at "breaks per minute" if someone cared to figure that out, but I don't suppose it's super important.

Fair enough, I think I was mostly on your side - just pointing out where the stats might be a tad misleading on a straight read.

 

[balmain boy]

Paps has played half the games that Thompson has. How on earth can you compare season totals when total playing minutes aren't remotely similar

Ah don't start moving the goal posts on me. You said he destroys Corey, and he doesn't. I made a post 2 seconds ago, if you want to start talking minutes played then you are heavily diluting your argument, in my opinion.

For example, why does Paps play a bunch of games off the bench? Some players do all their damage off the bench - Josh Papalii didn't even start the match on Saturday and he's one of the best in-form props in the comp.

If Corey did indeed play more minutes, you can argue his stats are tempered by all the hard work he had to do, with an inferior roster. Paps potentially came on against destroyed defences with lop-sided scores and was able to rack up stats against demoralised opposition.

All speculative arguments, chock full of opinion and personal preference. I can understand all the arguments, just don't tell me Paps destroys Corey, then when it's shown he doesn't, you need to start counting "minutes played".

It's quite clear you have no idea about statistical analysis and are quite content comparing apples with elephants. Simply no point discussing it further in that case so we'll have to agree to disagree

 

[hodgo]

We would be the only club and fan base that would consider ct over paps. Case and point melbourne are offering a long term sizable deal. Cant understand why they arent chasing thomo

 

[Russell]

I think our priority signings for 2021 should be Tom (22) and Jake (25) Trbojevic. Tom is one of the best fullbacks in the game, is only 22 and has room to improve in skill and physically. Jake is one of the best forwards in the game, a leader, plays big minutes, and improves a teams defence.

They might be hard to pry out of Manly but we should try very hard to get them.

You would have more chance of winning a billion dollar Powerball than getting them away from Manly.

Talk about "pie in the sky"

 

[Tigerboy]

Paps has played half the games that Thompson has. How on earth can you compare season totals when total playing minutes aren't remotely similar

Ah don't start moving the goal posts on me. You said he destroys Corey, and he doesn't. I made a post 2 seconds ago, if you want to start talking minutes played then you are heavily diluting your argument, in my opinion.

For example, why does Paps play a bunch of games off the bench? Some players do all their damage off the bench - Josh Papalii didn't even start the match on Saturday and he's one of the best in-form props in the comp.

If Corey did indeed play more minutes, you can argue his stats are tempered by all the hard work he had to do, with an inferior roster. Paps potentially came on against destroyed defences with lop-sided scores and was able to rack up stats against demoralised opposition.

All speculative arguments, chock full of opinion and personal preference. I can understand all the arguments, just don't tell me Paps destroys Corey, then when it's shown he doesn't, you need to start counting "minutes played".

It's quite clear you have no idea about statistical analysis and are quite content comparing apples with elephants. Simply no point discussing it further in that case so we'll have to agree to disagree

*Conveniently doesn’t mention any other stats that would totally annihilate his argument*.

Don’t worry, Balmain Boy - aside from all that speculative theorising on why he may be playing off the bench, in a better side, or whatever his attributes are - he made far more metres in less time (minutes) on kick returns, less errors I’m %99 sure, much higher Tackle Bust percentage (given he played from the bench a lot and had a significantly lesser amount of hit ups than Corey) and then you look at raw speed, yes he may not often pass but has shown to be able to and probably like an early career Josh Reynolds or James Tedesco simply needs to continue to hone it... there’s also his deadly ability to get over in situations where C.T is even smaller and potentially not strong enough (despite his good step and power-weight ratio) to do so.

Forget about whether he did more work in defence/organisationally because we didn’t make the finals. They did. Those are skills that took Billy Slater YEARS to master and he probably already has Thommo covered there. Corey needed to be more involved in attack coming home with a wet sail this year.

He will be, whether you like it or not, one of the first players relegated to a back-up position once we sign even a very good potential wing and fullback or a slightly above average proven player ; at this stage I can only offer Brimson, perhaps Lomax as examples... low risk and high ceiling exactly like Matto, except Corey seriously doesn’t offer anywhere near the dollar for dollar value that Paps would be at the moment.

Conversely, he also isn’t asking for a raise! I’ll take the 5 bedroom complex any day tho.