Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[cochise]

So Andrew Johns has warned TPJ not to sign with us and now warns us not to sign Dale Finucane either - seems to not want us to get anyone. Must have really miffed him when we beat the Knights twice this year.
"Andrew Johns has warned the Wests Tigers against recruiting veteran NRL star Dale Finucane, advising the club to look for a younger version of the Origin lock instead.

The Tigers have been linked to unwanted Brisbane Broncos star Tevita Pangai Jr, as well as Finucane, who is on Brad Fittler's extended bench for the Blues. The Bulldogs, Dragons and Sharks have also been reported to have interest in Finucane, but re-signing with the Melbourne Storm is still on the table for the 29-year-old.
However Johns said time is not on Finucane's side to make a significant impact for the club, despite his the value he brings beyond the footy field.
"There's clubs climbing over each other to get him," Johns said on Wide World of Sports' Immortal Behaviour.
And it's not necessarily what he does on the field, it's the way he prepares. I saw the way he prepares at Origin a couple of years ago, it is just so methodical the way he does it, so professional and it rubs off on other players.

"But Dale has played a lot of tough footy. I don't know how much footy he's got left."

Johns said the Tigers are better off searching for 'the next Dale Finucane' who can develop at the club as they rebuild.
Go find the Dale Finucane who is 19, 20, 21. And they're out there," he said.

The question though, is whether the Tigers have the comprehensive talent scouting that the Melbourne Storm do.

"The Storm don't recruit talent, they recruit character," Johns said.

"There's no one better [at recruitment]. They lose [Greg] Inglis, [Israel] Folau, [Cooper] Cronk, Billy Slater, Cameron Smith - we're talking about five champions, once in a generation players, and they're still on top of the table."


we literally have the same person doing the numbers (talent identification) as the storm. Joey must have been on a bender again

I don't think he is at the Storm any longer.

Even better

Yeah he left the Storm when he joined the Tigers, he is our Recruitment and List Analyst.

 

[gallagher]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

You reckon that problem is across most clubs? They always talk about lack of talent when expansion comes up but I think it's more lack of development.

Yea I do mate . I think too many jobs for the boys , nepotism , in fighting in junior leagues (Wests are the absolute worst for this) , and most of all , IMO , we should have Balmain and Wests , when identified , playing together from a very young age . The fact Wests hate Balmain , and get “wests” legends in. ,and the same for balmain , is just dinosaur stuff .

The junior teams should all be Wests tigers for starters .
But it will never get agreed to , because Balmain and Wests hate each other , or some garbage like that . As if it’s 1975 .

One sg ball, matts team? Would they need to abandon one junior area?

 

[gallagher]

So Andrew Johns has warned TPJ not to sign with us and now warns us not to sign Dale Finucane either - seems to not want us to get anyone. Must have really miffed him when we beat the Knights twice this year.
"Andrew Johns has warned the Wests Tigers against recruiting veteran NRL star Dale Finucane, advising the club to look for a younger version of the Origin lock instead.

The Tigers have been linked to unwanted Brisbane Broncos star Tevita Pangai Jr, as well as Finucane, who is on Brad Fittler's extended bench for the Blues. The Bulldogs, Dragons and Sharks have also been reported to have interest in Finucane, but re-signing with the Melbourne Storm is still on the table for the 29-year-old.
However Johns said time is not on Finucane's side to make a significant impact for the club, despite his the value he brings beyond the footy field.
"There's clubs climbing over each other to get him," Johns said on Wide World of Sports' Immortal Behaviour.
And it's not necessarily what he does on the field, it's the way he prepares. I saw the way he prepares at Origin a couple of years ago, it is just so methodical the way he does it, so professional and it rubs off on other players.

"But Dale has played a lot of tough footy. I don't know how much footy he's got left."

Johns said the Tigers are better off searching for 'the next Dale Finucane' who can develop at the club as they rebuild.
Go find the Dale Finucane who is 19, 20, 21. And they're out there," he said.

The question though, is whether the Tigers have the comprehensive talent scouting that the Melbourne Storm do.

"The Storm don't recruit talent, they recruit character," Johns said.

"There's no one better [at recruitment]. They lose [Greg] Inglis, [Israel] Folau, [Cooper] Cronk, Billy Slater, Cameron Smith - we're talking about five champions, once in a generation players, and they're still on top of the table."


we literally have the same person doing the numbers (talent identification) as the storm. Joey must have been on a bender again

I don't think he is at the Storm any longer.

Even better

Yeah he left the Storm when he joined the Tigers, he is our Recruitment and List Analyst.

Is that assigning money to playing position. You spend x amount on halves, x amount on props etc?
Does he specifically identify 'talent'

 

[Deleted member 3518]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

I haven’t seen the data but I am sure we have more talent to draw upon if you’re talking juniors. But you can’t compare talent in our NRL squads because Melbourne wipes the floor with us. On and off the pitch.

What the hell are you talking about ? Your taking in circles ? What your referring to as talent isn’t talent . E word is elite . Talent , which is what I’m taking about , will only get you so far . At some point the systems to help you to become elite .

That’s our issue . We do not transition the extremely talented players into elite nearly enough .

Controversial take here , I don’t think we maximised benji either . I think if he had come through with a different club , say Melbourne , he would be the greatest footballer to ever live . He was soo much better than any player I’ve ever seen . But as it stands , he will go down as the most skill full , with only 1 premiership , when he was 19 by the way , to his name .
It’s a disgrace . If I’m being honest . Sure it falls on him as well as anyone . But yea , we should have done better .

The only one I think who got everything out of his career was Robbie . But that’s cUse the guy worked , and worked . I don’t think that was a club culture thing though . ThT was just him . And with him back in the club , with sheens , and Madge for that matter , they’re all guys who work hard . And are all known for being A-holes . Which is what we need to change the joint . We’ve always been the fun club , even back to the start of the merger with players being caught on the disco bickies , and many many others with rumours of liking Scarface just a little too much .

 

[cochise]

So Andrew Johns has warned TPJ not to sign with us and now warns us not to sign Dale Finucane either - seems to not want us to get anyone. Must have really miffed him when we beat the Knights twice this year.
"Andrew Johns has warned the Wests Tigers against recruiting veteran NRL star Dale Finucane, advising the club to look for a younger version of the Origin lock instead.

The Tigers have been linked to unwanted Brisbane Broncos star Tevita Pangai Jr, as well as Finucane, who is on Brad Fittler's extended bench for the Blues. The Bulldogs, Dragons and Sharks have also been reported to have interest in Finucane, but re-signing with the Melbourne Storm is still on the table for the 29-year-old.
However Johns said time is not on Finucane's side to make a significant impact for the club, despite his the value he brings beyond the footy field.
"There's clubs climbing over each other to get him," Johns said on Wide World of Sports' Immortal Behaviour.
And it's not necessarily what he does on the field, it's the way he prepares. I saw the way he prepares at Origin a couple of years ago, it is just so methodical the way he does it, so professional and it rubs off on other players.

"But Dale has played a lot of tough footy. I don't know how much footy he's got left."

Johns said the Tigers are better off searching for 'the next Dale Finucane' who can develop at the club as they rebuild.
Go find the Dale Finucane who is 19, 20, 21. And they're out there," he said.

The question though, is whether the Tigers have the comprehensive talent scouting that the Melbourne Storm do.

"The Storm don't recruit talent, they recruit character," Johns said.

"There's no one better [at recruitment]. They lose [Greg] Inglis, [Israel] Folau, [Cooper] Cronk, Billy Slater, Cameron Smith - we're talking about five champions, once in a generation players, and they're still on top of the table."


we literally have the same person doing the numbers (talent identification) as the storm. Joey must have been on a bender again

I don't think he is at the Storm any longer.

Even better

Yeah he left the Storm when he joined the Tigers, he is our Recruitment and List Analyst.

Is that assigning money to playing position. You spend x amount on halves, x amount on props etc?
Does he specifically identify 'talent'

Scott Woodward is the guy I'm talking about, he provides the data on players in positions we identify. Basically we give him the parameters of what we are looking for and he will identify players that meet those needs.

 

[BAGNF05]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

I haven’t seen the data but I am sure we have more talent to draw upon if you’re talking juniors. But you can’t compare talent in our NRL squads because Melbourne wipes the floor with us. On and off the pitch.

What the hell are you talking about ? Your taking in circles ? What your referring to as talent isn’t talent . E word is elite . Talent , which is what I’m taking about , will only get you so far . At some point the systems to help you to become elite .

That’s our issue . We do not transition the extremely talented players into elite nearly enough .

Controversial take here , I don’t think we maximised benji either . I think if he had come through with a different club , say Melbourne , he would be the greatest footballer to ever live . He was soo much better than any player I’ve ever seen . But as it stands , he will go down as the most skill full , with only 1 premiership , when he was 19 by the way , to his name .
It’s a disgrace . If I’m being honest . Sure it falls on him as well as anyone . But yea , we should have done better .

The only one I think who got everything out of his career was Robbie . But that’s cUse the guy worked , and worked . I don’t think that was a club culture thing though . ThT was just him . And with him back in the club , with sheens , and Madge for that matter , they’re all guys who work hard . And are all known for being A-holes . Which is what we need to change the joint . We’ve always been the fun club , even back to the start of the merger with players being caught on the disco bickies , and many many others with rumours of liking Scarface just a little too much .

Reluctant to argue about English language here but I think you’re talking about potential. Elite players are highly talented.

Benji had injury setbacks and then a period where he didn’t work hard enough on his craft, those are his words, when he was playing his best footy the Tigers were always top 4.

Robbie changed the hooking position and was very tough, hopefully he is able to instil some of his mentality in the current team.

They both came into an environment where the senior guys were hard men and passionate about the club, that’s the system we need to work towards.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

You reckon that problem is across most clubs? They always talk about lack of talent when expansion comes up but I think it's more lack of development.

Yea I do mate . I think too many jobs for the boys , nepotism , in fighting in junior leagues (Wests are the absolute worst for this) , and most of all , IMO , we should have Balmain and Wests , when identified , playing together from a very young age . The fact Wests hate Balmain , and get “wests” legends in. ,and the same for balmain , is just dinosaur stuff .

The junior teams should all be Wests tigers for starters .
But it will never get agreed to , because Balmain and Wests hate each other , or some garbage like that . As if it’s 1975 .

One sg ball, matts team? Would they need to abandon one junior area?

No I don’t think so . I think that’s where the academy would come in . Identify them early have them train together and grow together . The issue is , which is a minor one really , there are no longer say 60 spots available for rep honours between the 2 districts , but rather 30 now . But that’s no different to every other club anyway .
We could bus in the kids from Balmain , like the roosters and manly do , to C-town ( yes C -town) where the academy should be . There should photos of benji and Robbie , Lawry , Ellis , sheens Galea , skando , Hodgson . Plastered everywhere . And a hallway with door , that only ever opens when you get called up to the show. Or some symbolic gesture , that you have graduated to concord .

No mention at all of Balmain , Wests , other than , maybe some museum like room that commemorates our history .
And it’s taught about , but never ever dwelled upon . It has to be about Wests tigers .

 

[gallagher]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

You reckon that problem is across most clubs? They always talk about lack of talent when expansion comes up but I think it's more lack of development.

Yea I do mate . I think too many jobs for the boys , nepotism , in fighting in junior leagues (Wests are the absolute worst for this) , and most of all , IMO , we should have Balmain and Wests , when identified , playing together from a very young age . The fact Wests hate Balmain , and get “wests” legends in. ,and the same for balmain , is just dinosaur stuff .

The junior teams should all be Wests tigers for starters .
But it will never get agreed to , because Balmain and Wests hate each other , or some garbage like that . As if it’s 1975 .

One sg ball, matts team? Would they need to abandon one junior area?

No I don’t think so . I think that’s where the academy would come in . Identify them early have them train together and grow together . The issue is , which is a minor one really , there are no longer say 60 spots available for rep honours between the 2 districts , but rather 30 now . But that’s no different to every other club anyway .
We could bus in the kids from Balmain , like the roosters and manly do , to C-town ( yes C -town) where the academy should be . There should photos of benji and Robbie , Lawry , Ellis , sheens Galea , skando , Hodgson . Plastered everywhere . And a hallway with door , that only ever opens when you get called up to the show. Or some symbolic gesture , that you have graduated to concord .

No mention at all of Balmain , Wests , other than , maybe some museum like room that commemorates our history .
And it’s taught about , but never ever dwelled upon . It has to be about Wests tigers .

I like it.

 

[cochise]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

You reckon that problem is across most clubs? They always talk about lack of talent when expansion comes up but I think it's more lack of development.

Yea I do mate . I think too many jobs for the boys , nepotism , in fighting in junior leagues (Wests are the absolute worst for this) , and most of all , IMO , we should have Balmain and Wests , when identified , playing together from a very young age . The fact Wests hate Balmain , and get “wests” legends in. ,and the same for balmain , is just dinosaur stuff .

The junior teams should all be Wests tigers for starters .
But it will never get agreed to , because Balmain and Wests hate each other , or some garbage like that . As if it’s 1975 .

One sg ball, matts team? Would they need to abandon one junior area?

No I don’t think so . I think that’s where the academy would come in . Identify them early have them train together and grow together . The issue is , which is a minor one really , there are no longer say 60 spots available for rep honours between the 2 districts , but rather 30 now . But that’s no different to every other club anyway .
We could bus in the kids from Balmain , like the roosters and manly do , to C-town ( yes C -town) where the academy should be . There should photos of benji and Robbie , Lawry , Ellis , sheens Galea , skando , Hodgson . Plastered everywhere . And a hallway with door , that only ever opens when you get called up to the show. Or some symbolic gesture , that you have graduated to concord .

No mention at all of Balmain , Wests , other than , maybe some museum like room that commemorates our history .
And it’s taught about , but never ever dwelled upon . It has to be about Wests tigers .

There are plans to build an Academy out at Campbelltown.

 

[tiger_one]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

You reckon that problem is across most clubs? They always talk about lack of talent when expansion comes up but I think it's more lack of development.

Yea I do mate . I think too many jobs for the boys , nepotism , in fighting in junior leagues (Wests are the absolute worst for this) , and most of all , IMO , we should have Balmain and Wests , when identified , playing together from a very young age . The fact Wests hate Balmain , and get “wests” legends in. ,and the same for balmain , is just dinosaur stuff .

The junior teams should all be Wests tigers for starters .
But it will never get agreed to , because Balmain and Wests hate each other , or some garbage like that . As if it’s 1975 .

One sg ball, matts team? Would they need to abandon one junior area?

No I don’t think so . I think that’s where the academy would come in . Identify them early have them train together and grow together . The issue is , which is a minor one really , there are no longer say 60 spots available for rep honours between the 2 districts , but rather 30 now . But that’s no different to every other club anyway .
We could bus in the kids from Balmain , like the roosters and manly do , to C-town ( yes C -town) where the academy should be . There should photos of benji and Robbie , Lawry , Ellis , sheens Galea , skando , Hodgson . Plastered everywhere . And a hallway with door , that only ever opens when you get called up to the show. Or some symbolic gesture , that you have graduated to concord .

No mention at all of Balmain , Wests , other than , maybe some museum like room that commemorates our history .
And it’s taught about , but never ever dwelled upon . It has to be about Wests tigers .

But I recall, in seasons past, the chosen elite juniors from both sides of the joint venture would be brought together as Wests Tigers reps, and trained etc with 1st grade as part of their development towards the higher grades.

 

[mike]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, **do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever?** At what stage does he take some responsibility?

If the players were putting in, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now?
In answer to your question though, YES, we do keep replacing them (like every other club) until we get the balance and commitment right?

At what stage does Madge take responsibility for on field performances?

How do you suggest he do that ? I suppose he could acknowledge that the team's performance is his fault as a coach. But what if doesn't believe that is true ?

In any event, what would it achieve ? I don't think it would achieve anything except shift the blame for some pathetic performances away for the players, which is where it belongs.

Or, he could resign and admit that he can do nothing with the team. That would be a disaster for the club. For a premiership winning coach to walk away would say that our club is beyond redemption.

He should resign or get sacked. I’d be happy with either.

And what message does that send to the players?

I don’t particularly care, I just want to win games.

I hope you dont say "I dont particularly care" :astonished: when you have a blue with your Mrs.

Luke Lewis just said on ABC radio "Wests Tigers need players with a winning mentality".

Wests Tigers need supporters with a genuine winning mentality... not a "I dont care mentality".

Lol only 10 years of missing the finals now that gives me a winning mentality, you must be one of those true fans.

No other team has had the hard road we have had to navigate.
But we are half way through the tunnel and I can see a sliver of bright light at the other end as well as a sign saying 😛oint_right: 'straight ahead for good times' :star: .

For goodness sake, stay away from the light. It never ends well. ????

 

[Deleted member 3518]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

I haven’t seen the data but I am sure we have more talent to draw upon if you’re talking juniors. But you can’t compare talent in our NRL squads because Melbourne wipes the floor with us. On and off the pitch.

What the hell are you talking about ? Your taking in circles ? What your referring to as talent isn’t talent . E word is elite . Talent , which is what I’m taking about , will only get you so far . At some point the systems to help you to become elite .

That’s our issue . We do not transition the extremely talented players into elite nearly enough .

Controversial take here , I don’t think we maximised benji either . I think if he had come through with a different club , say Melbourne , he would be the greatest footballer to ever live . He was soo much better than any player I’ve ever seen . But as it stands , he will go down as the most skill full , with only 1 premiership , when he was 19 by the way , to his name .
It’s a disgrace . If I’m being honest . Sure it falls on him as well as anyone . But yea , we should have done better .

The only one I think who got everything out of his career was Robbie . But that’s cUse the guy worked , and worked . I don’t think that was a club culture thing though . ThT was just him . And with him back in the club , with sheens , and Madge for that matter , they’re all guys who work hard . And are all known for being A-holes . Which is what we need to change the joint . We’ve always been the fun club , even back to the start of the merger with players being caught on the disco bickies , and many many others with rumours of liking Scarface just a little too much .

Reluctant to argue about English language here but I think you’re talking about potential. Elite players are highly talented.

And many arnt . Guys like Nigel plum. They’re elite NRL players . They are willing to put thier head where you shouldn’t but your foot . And work thier absolute butts off .

Who by thier own admission , would say , they weren’t as talented as most of the guys coming through , they just wanted it more .

But whatever mate, if you want to continue the narrative “we suck , whhhhhy can’t weeeee get the same talented playeeers atlas the storm . ITS NOT FAIR !!! “ story . Then good for you . It’s not true . We do have the same talented players . We just suck at developing them .

 

[gallagher]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

You reckon that problem is across most clubs? They always talk about lack of talent when expansion comes up but I think it's more lack of development.

Yea I do mate . I think too many jobs for the boys , nepotism , in fighting in junior leagues (Wests are the absolute worst for this) , and most of all , IMO , we should have Balmain and Wests , when identified , playing together from a very young age . The fact Wests hate Balmain , and get “wests” legends in. ,and the same for balmain , is just dinosaur stuff .

The junior teams should all be Wests tigers for starters .
But it will never get agreed to , because Balmain and Wests hate each other , or some garbage like that . As if it’s 1975 .

One sg ball, matts team? Would they need to abandon one junior area?

No I don’t think so . I think that’s where the academy would come in . Identify them early have them train together and grow together . The issue is , which is a minor one really , there are no longer say 60 spots available for rep honours between the 2 districts , but rather 30 now . But that’s no different to every other club anyway .
We could bus in the kids from Balmain , like the roosters and manly do , to C-town ( yes C -town) where the academy should be . There should photos of benji and Robbie , Lawry , Ellis , sheens Galea , skando , Hodgson . Plastered everywhere . And a hallway with door , that only ever opens when you get called up to the show. Or some symbolic gesture , that you have graduated to concord .

No mention at all of Balmain , Wests , other than , maybe some museum like room that commemorates our history .
And it’s taught about , but never ever dwelled upon . It has to be about Wests tigers .


But I recall, in seasons past, the chosen elite juniors from both sides of the joint venture would be brought together as Wests Tigers reps, and trained etc with 1st grade as part of their development towards the higher grades.

I remember that, no doubt under Sheens reign

 

[Deleted member 3518]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

You reckon that problem is across most clubs? They always talk about lack of talent when expansion comes up but I think it's more lack of development.

Yea I do mate . I think too many jobs for the boys , nepotism , in fighting in junior leagues (Wests are the absolute worst for this) , and most of all , IMO , we should have Balmain and Wests , when identified , playing together from a very young age . The fact Wests hate Balmain , and get “wests” legends in. ,and the same for balmain , is just dinosaur stuff .

The junior teams should all be Wests tigers for starters .
But it will never get agreed to , because Balmain and Wests hate each other , or some garbage like that . As if it’s 1975 .

One sg ball, matts team? Would they need to abandon one junior area?

No I don’t think so . I think that’s where the academy would come in . Identify them early have them train together and grow together . The issue is , which is a minor one really , there are no longer say 60 spots available for rep honours between the 2 districts , but rather 30 now . But that’s no different to every other club anyway .
We could bus in the kids from Balmain , like the roosters and manly do , to C-town ( yes C -town) where the academy should be . There should photos of benji and Robbie , Lawry , Ellis , sheens Galea , skando , Hodgson . Plastered everywhere . And a hallway with door , that only ever opens when you get called up to the show. Or some symbolic gesture , that you have graduated to concord .

No mention at all of Balmain , Wests , other than , maybe some museum like room that commemorates our history .
And it’s taught about , but never ever dwelled upon . It has to be about Wests tigers .


But I recall, in seasons past, the chosen elite juniors from both sides of the joint venture would be brought together as Wests Tigers reps, and trained etc with 1st grade as part of their development towards the higher grades.

Yea that’s not what I’m talking about . They’re raining with firsts . They’re not playing together . Training together , fighting on the field together . Chucking drink bottles at each other at training , becoming mates and growing together . Because what I’m talking about , is why the panthers are amazing. They’ve been together since Harold Matt’s , most of those guys .

 

[BAGNF05]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

I haven’t seen the data but I am sure we have more talent to draw upon if you’re talking juniors. But you can’t compare talent in our NRL squads because Melbourne wipes the floor with us. On and off the pitch.

What the hell are you talking about ? Your taking in circles ? What your referring to as talent isn’t talent . E word is elite . Talent , which is what I’m taking about , will only get you so far . At some point the systems to help you to become elite .

That’s our issue . We do not transition the extremely talented players into elite nearly enough .

Controversial take here , I don’t think we maximised benji either . I think if he had come through with a different club , say Melbourne , he would be the greatest footballer to ever live . He was soo much better than any player I’ve ever seen . But as it stands , he will go down as the most skill full , with only 1 premiership , when he was 19 by the way , to his name .
It’s a disgrace . If I’m being honest . Sure it falls on him as well as anyone . But yea , we should have done better .

The only one I think who got everything out of his career was Robbie . But that’s cUse the guy worked , and worked . I don’t think that was a club culture thing though . ThT was just him . And with him back in the club , with sheens , and Madge for that matter , they’re all guys who work hard . And are all known for being A-holes . Which is what we need to change the joint . We’ve always been the fun club , even back to the start of the merger with players being caught on the disco bickies , and many many others with rumours of liking Scarface just a little too much .

Reluctant to argue about English language here but I think you’re talking about potential. Elite players are highly talented.

And many arnt . Guys like Nigel plum. They’re elite NRL players . They are willing to put thier head where you shouldn’t but your foot . And work thier absolute butts off .

Who by thier own admission , would say , they weren’t as talented as most of the guys coming through , they just wanted it more .

But whatever mate, if you want to continue the narrative “we suck , whhhhhy can’t weeeee get the same talented playeeers atlas the storm . ITS NOT FAIR !!! “ story . Then good for you . It’s not true . We do have the same talented players . We just suck at developing them .

That’s not my argument but. I’m saying we need a few Nigel Plums to teach your ‘talent.’
What it takes

 

[jirskyr]

Pretty simple really, in his first year he hadn’t gotten his poor game plans and antiquated coaching style inbedded in the squad.

I'm sorry, how long exactly does it take to teach a team poor game plans and antiquated coaching styles? You would have thought becoming a crap team quickly wouldn't be that hard if the coach tried hard enough.

What a dopey argument though - the players did ok until the coach trained them to do worse. Oh that must be why they drop the ball and miss tackles, because Madge has been coaching them to drop more and miss more since he started.

 

[BZN]

There are loads of different variables that go on that us as fans aren't privy to.
Madge is a hard ass but i think its a good thing. I think some of the players just have not bought into his methods but others have. Our Flegg, womens side and KOE cup team are doing amazing. The club is building form the bottom up. It is definitely not a quick fix that us fans want but will possibly/hopefully/better be a successful side in the next 2 years and years to come. You can't change attitude and mentality overnight, it does take years to embedd culture

:+1: :+1: :+1:

 

[BZN]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, **do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever?** At what stage does he take some responsibility?

If the players were putting in, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now?
In answer to your question though, YES, we do keep replacing them (like every other club) until we get the balance and commitment right?

At what stage does Madge take responsibility for on field performances?

How do you suggest he do that ? I suppose he could acknowledge that the team's performance is his fault as a coach. But what if doesn't believe that is true ?

In any event, what would it achieve ? I don't think it would achieve anything except shift the blame for some pathetic performances away for the players, which is where it belongs.

Or, he could resign and admit that he can do nothing with the team. That would be a disaster for the club. For a premiership winning coach to walk away would say that our club is beyond redemption.

He should resign or get sacked. I’d be happy with either.

And what message does that send to the players?

I don’t particularly care, I just want to win games.

I hope you dont say "I dont particularly care" :astonished: when you have a blue with your Mrs.

Luke Lewis just said on ABC radio "Wests Tigers need players with a winning mentality".

Wests Tigers need supporters with a genuine winning mentality... not a "I dont care mentality".

Lol only 10 years of missing the finals now that gives me a winning mentality, you must be one of those true fans.

No other team has had the hard road we have had to navigate.
But we are half way through the tunnel and I can see a sliver of bright light at the other end as well as a sign saying 😛oint_right: 'straight ahead for good times' :star: .

For goodness sake, stay away from the light. It never ends well. ????

[/QUOTE]

 

[Deleted member 3518]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

You reckon that problem is across most clubs? They always talk about lack of talent when expansion comes up but I think it's more lack of development.

Yea I do mate . I think too many jobs for the boys , nepotism , in fighting in junior leagues (Wests are the absolute worst for this) , and most of all , IMO , we should have Balmain and Wests , when identified , playing together from a very young age . The fact Wests hate Balmain , and get “wests” legends in. ,and the same for balmain , is just dinosaur stuff .

The junior teams should all be Wests tigers for starters .
But it will never get agreed to , because Balmain and Wests hate each other , or some garbage like that . As if it’s 1975 .

One sg ball, matts team? Would they need to abandon one junior area?

No I don’t think so . I think that’s where the academy would come in . Identify them early have them train together and grow together . The issue is , which is a minor one really , there are no longer say 60 spots available for rep honours between the 2 districts , but rather 30 now . But that’s no different to every other club anyway .
We could bus in the kids from Balmain , like the roosters and manly do , to C-town ( yes C -town) where the academy should be . There should photos of benji and Robbie , Lawry , Ellis , sheens Galea , skando , Hodgson . Plastered everywhere . And a hallway with door , that only ever opens when you get called up to the show. Or some symbolic gesture , that you have graduated to concord .

No mention at all of Balmain , Wests , other than , maybe some museum like room that commemorates our history .
And it’s taught about , but never ever dwelled upon . It has to be about Wests tigers .

There are plans to build an Academy out at Campbelltown.

I’m glad mate . It needs to be there . Whilst the main team , will always probably be city based, as it’s just better for business , we need to let the region know that the tigers do give a crap about the joint . Put it on narellan Rd or somewhere like that , with a big Wests tigers sign , to showcase it . Also when local kids drive past it to go to MacArthur square , they can stare out the window at it .
And once again just for clarity , my family hails from gladesville originally , so this isn’t some Wests vs Balmain thing . This is , IMO what’s best for the club.

 

[cochise]

What makes anyone think that this bunch of soft, entitled, lazy, arrogant and comfort-zone players are going to follow Finucane's lead?
I rate Tamou.
I don't believe he was brought here to run for 200mtrs and make copious amounts of tackle-breaks, off-loads, score 10 tries and kick goals at 95%.
His leadership is about recovery, professional conduct, never lying down and adopting a winning mentality, the rest is up to guys like Mikaele, Musgrove, Luccie, Uto, Brooksy, Garner, TommyT, Joe O, Jet, Nofo, Mbye and the rest to use their God-given talents to the best of their ability.
Is he still a leader if this bunch of powder-puffs lack the mental and intestinal fortitude to follow?...
I love TPJ's X-factor, which we're missing, but giving Tamou some back-up in the mould of Finucane would be far more conducive to establishing a platform that drives the values of tenacity, pride of performance, striving to succeed, especially in the face of adversity which breed a winning culture, something we've sorely lacked for far too long.

Some of those players you named played very well last Saturday so I think what you have written is a little unfair.

The finger should be pointed at Maguire. He looked like a man without answers during that post match press conference. He's actually had that look for a significant period of time. Perhaps if the club installed a leader as coach, we may achieve better results and performances. I read many comments which describe Maguire as tough. Tough does not necessarily mean you are good, it could mean you use it to hide your lack of tactical nous or comms skills.

He doesn't have the answers but he's a loyal soldier and will be here for the remainder of his contract.

If that is true, it's confirmation WTs should be booted.

C'mon Paws...really ...'Wests Tigers' should be booted.
Are you sure you meant to say that?

Most supporters would be dismayed with the answer I responded to about Maguire.

Yeh ok Paws, but how does this post link to "WT's should be booted"?

Mediocrity. The original poster wrote Maguire doesn't have the answers but he'll see out his contract because he's a loyal soldier.

You may not have an issue with it. I do and I believe others may as well.

Hartigan is doing an outstanding job with recruitment. I wonder though whether the word is out among other players that you will not improve under Maguire?

Good players know that it's the quality of the players around you that make you better not those content to be mediocre and not put the work in. Mediocrity comes from laziness mentally and physically and that lies solely with the the players themselves.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept - 2016 Australian of the Year.

This from a former military officer resonates.

This is the issue with we know Maguire doesn't have the answers but he is a loyal soldier who will see out his contract.

They’re contracted mate all he can do is drop them. Packer, Bj, Garner, Brooks, Talau, Kepaoa, Stef, Mbye, AD, etc etc

All been dropped at various stages.

What else can he do when it’s dudville?

It's easy to blame the players when you don't have the answers.

Yes, it easy to blame the players, they are ones that have got us in this mess.
I'm not sure how you make a player, play to expectations, without dropping him?

You can’t replace 30 players because he’s unable to coach them effectively. What happens if the next bunch can’t play either, do we replace them too and keep rolling over the roster forever? At what stage does he take some responsibility?

Avo...when you go to a party does the room light up when you walk in?
Seems to me you need a few of those gourmet pies from your local pie shop :joy_cat: .

We dont need to replace 30 players, that's just silly :confounded: .
Our **team** of Hartigan, Madge and Pascoe purchased the best players available at the time without paying overs, and I commend them for that.

Better players that are prepared to believe in Madge and give :100: effort and commitment to Wests Tigers will become available and **we will all live happily ever after ** :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

I’m not a miserable person at all, but as a fan I am extremely frustrated and am not deluded to the point where I think we’re heading in the right direction.

I don’t know about Madge . I’m kind of with you , and kind of not . I don’t think the team is garbage at all , and I think there’s a lot of the cream of the crop from the last 5 years u18s sitting in our squad .
Guys like talau , kepoa , Blore , seyfarth , Simpkin , Simpkins , Uto , madden , Cini ,even Liddle . They were all Aus schoolboys . And then there’s guys like Brooks , AD, and Twal , who are also clearly talented and ,once again ,elite for thier age group .
Which says to me , we do have the talent .

What we lack , is a way to combine it all under one nucleus and push forward as one unit .
And for that I kind of agree there’s something wrong , with either thier development , or the coaching staff.
I honestly it’s not that Madge is a crap coach , is that he can’t relinquish the steering wheel , due to past whiteanting . So he doesn’t have the best support staff he could get. But rather guys he can trust .
Which inevitably , if he doesn’t take a risk , and delegate authority , to guys who are clearly talented coaches , then he will be just the NZ coach moving forward. Which will be a shame IMO, as the guys clearly gives a stuff , loves the club , and most importantly is a talented coach.

The thing about Australian school boys is they look really good.. against school boys.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom , but talent is talent . Just because they never develop the physicality , and mentality doesn’t mean you don’t target the elite juniors .
And we have them in the club . They’re here . So this garbage about not having talent is just that . Garbage . We have to figure out how to get that talent to translate .

No doubt they are talented some of these young players, you don’t make a National team at any level without talent. But to go from elite junior to professional NRL player you need a few things - great mentors, the right attitude and a lot of luck. And that might get you a debut. I’ve watched first hand as many super talented juniors failed to crack NRL. I will continue to say it, until our systems are right and we have good senior players we are going to continue to see these young guys fall short of expectations. Craig Fitzgibbon was a dud junior who played on a wing, look what good systems did for him.

That’s my point . I think are agreeing here . The issue is the pathways , and development , not lack of talent . So when people say things like “we don’t have the talent that Melbourne do” . I call bull crap !!! We do so have the talent . We just as a club arnt nurturing them in a system that is not only conducive to them maximising thier talents individually, but from a fans perspective , maximising the Ws for the club .

You reckon that problem is across most clubs? They always talk about lack of talent when expansion comes up but I think it's more lack of development.

Yea I do mate . I think too many jobs for the boys , nepotism , in fighting in junior leagues (Wests are the absolute worst for this) , and most of all , IMO , we should have Balmain and Wests , when identified , playing together from a very young age . The fact Wests hate Balmain , and get “wests” legends in. ,and the same for balmain , is just dinosaur stuff .

The junior teams should all be Wests tigers for starters .
But it will never get agreed to , because Balmain and Wests hate each other , or some garbage like that . As if it’s 1975 .

One sg ball, matts team? Would they need to abandon one junior area?

No I don’t think so . I think that’s where the academy would come in . Identify them early have them train together and grow together . The issue is , which is a minor one really , there are no longer say 60 spots available for rep honours between the 2 districts , but rather 30 now . But that’s no different to every other club anyway .
We could bus in the kids from Balmain , like the roosters and manly do , to C-town ( yes C -town) where the academy should be . There should photos of benji and Robbie , Lawry , Ellis , sheens Galea , skando , Hodgson . Plastered everywhere . And a hallway with door , that only ever opens when you get called up to the show. Or some symbolic gesture , that you have graduated to concord .

No mention at all of Balmain , Wests , other than , maybe some museum like room that commemorates our history .
And it’s taught about , but never ever dwelled upon . It has to be about Wests tigers .

There are plans to build an Academy out at Campbelltown.

I’m glad mate . It needs to be there . Whilst the main team , will always probably be city based, as it’s just better for business , we need to let the region know that the tigers do give a crap about the joint . Put it on narellan Rd or somewhere like that , with a big Wests tigers sign , to showcase it . Also when local kids drive past it to go to MacArthur square , they can stare out the window at it .
And once again just for clarity , my family hails from gladesville originally , so this isn’t some Wests vs Balmain thing . This is , IMO what’s best for the club.

It is the next major project after the COE is completed, I would actually think the club is already in the process of organising funding for it.