Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[TigerTone]

Gallen asked him should Tigers throw "stupid money" to get that key pillar player, he said probably not, they already tried to buy experience and it backfired dramatically.

To clarify, he said it backfired because we bought players well beyond their prime - Reynolds, Matalino, Tamou, Joey etc.

Paying overs for the wrong player is madness, paying overs for the right player is an investment. Ivan made some horrible choices.

But how do you determine who is the right or wrong player before you sign them?

I think Gould was saying that our player recruitment demonstrated players who were past their best, yet we paid premium dollars for them.
Poor/reckless/cap damaging choices.

Yeah I get that. The question is what process do you put in place so that you get the best bang for you buck and don’t make damaging choices?

Ideally it would have to be the person/persons involved in recruitment who would have to be alot more switched on
than those who have been doing the recruiting in the past.
Cleary's selection of recruits were obviously (to him) , a quick fix and an ultimate fail at that.
Moving forward our recruitment team (who ever that may be) hopefully isnt looking for that quick fix , older , ready to retire player or on his last legs , and bring in players that are hungry for success no matter what jersey that put on.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

We can access players either past their prime or, we employ the best at judging talent (Hartigan and his team) plus Sheens to bring in those gems on the cusp of playing NRL. Landing a Smith or Tapine is unrealistic (for now). This may change with Sheens' and his connections.

 

[cochise]

So does anyone know what happened to our last signing or upgrade to our 30 man squad for 2021

Not much doing until we get some real administrators in (sheens)


You really need to examine the last years under Sheens, that was when our cap was starting to get out of control.We started shedding players to stay under the cap.He was nothing special as an administrator despite what you think.

You are Not comparing apples with apples. Club had no money back then with less resources and support.

I found Gould's comments interesting.

Given our season tend to agree our board, ceo, Hartigan and madge don't have the experience to get it done. Look how the players, player managers and media have blown up in their faces they don't have the network or know how handle the situation.

https://twitter.com/wwos/status/1422173307663699974?s=19

That's not really what Gould said.

He said Tim Sheens is a smart signing. He said lots of folks inside an organisation have an opinion and think they can improve results, but no offence, you need experience and connections to make that work.

Gould did not specifically say current people at the club lacked those connections, he simply said Tim Sheens has them.

He said it's not as bad as it looks, but nor are the wins that good. He said Tigers are clearly not the worst team in the comp, not by a long shot, and probably 10 of the clubs are in the same situation of being way off the Top 6.

He said the team struggles under pressure, because they are young and don't have the top-end roster, and that's not about the coach that's about the individuals.

He said young coaches should not attempt rebuilds, he couldn't think of a situation where that works out (Chammas asked him about Cameron Ciraldo). Gallen asked him should Tigers throw "stupid money" to get that key pillar player, he said probably not, they already tried to buy experience and it backfired dramatically.

Was a pretty measured comment overall - in my favourite headspace of "moderation". It's not as bad as it looks, nor are the highs that good either. It's not as straightforward as one strategy or one obvious solution.

I agree about rookie coaches not being a good idea for a rebuild.

 

[Curaeus]

Whether you like Gus or not, he is one of the more intelligent NRL commentators and is always worth a listen. I think he's spot on about Sheens and young coaches and rebuilds.

 

[Needaname]

Gallen asked him should Tigers throw "stupid money" to get that key pillar player, he said probably not, they already tried to buy experience and it backfired dramatically.

To clarify, he said it backfired because we bought players well beyond their prime - Reynolds, Matalino, Tamou, Joey etc.

Paying overs for the wrong player is madness, paying overs for the right player is an investment. Ivan made some horrible choices.

I actually think Matolino was one of Cleary’s best signings he was the player that added the steel to the young pack.
We were hoping for the same from Tamou but his output is nothing the same. Mind you the pay packet is about 50% a season between the two still Tamou looks like his mind has retired before his body whereas Matolino would tell his body he still has some years left.

 

[GarryOwen]

Gus was very open about his opinion that Barrett (as a young coach) would be silly to take on the Dogs' job, given the size of the rebuild, so he is at least consistent there.
Everything he says has a tinge of an agenda, but I think his comments on the Tigers are pretty apt here. We need to keep on the Laurie/Stefano train and build up from within. Inconsistency will be a huge issue with such a young team, but if we're able to stay the course, and supplement them with some experienced bodies, then we'll eventually be able to attract rep players.
That's the plan anyway. In reality, the NRL is a flimsy kangaroo court of an economy, so in all likelihood someone like the Roosters will coax one of these guys to agitate for a release as soon as they develop a little more, and thus we'll be back to square one.
Plus ca change.

 

[900Large 0]

Hi everyone, Its been a long time since I last posted here, so long in fact that I think my last post was under the sack sheens thread about a decade ago, and of course Id lost my log in details in the fog of time.
Anyway, over the years I've enjoyed reading the banter and the opinions, and appreciate the level of insight and footy nous that many on here have, and haven't really seen the need to contribute until yesterday.
To start with I'm a close friend of a player agent who manages rugby players primarily based in France, UK, Japan and the US. He used to manage NRL players as well, and without putting too finer point on it, knows his cattle.
Anyway we were watching the US Major League Rugby final yesterday. The Los Angeles team has a winger by the name of John Ryburg, he is 5'11, 107kg and very quick. He scored 2 tries in the finals and 9 over the season, equal third top scorer in the comp. He has a tackle efficiency of over 93% and runs like Maika Sivo. For reference he is in a team with Adam Ashley Cooper, Matt Giteau, Dave Dennis and Billy Meeks, so they're not a park footy side.
In an interview he wrote "If there’s no way around a defender I’m going to go through them because that’s my job…finish the foundation set by the forwards".
This guy is no Manfred Moore or Greg Smith, my mate tells me he can play. He cant kick well enough to make a top flight rugby player in Australia, but in his opinion, given the greater space to move with 2 less players the 10m advantage, he would be outstanding as a league player. Given the Salary Cap of the MLR is $500k, I'm pretty sure he comes cheap.
Anyway I thought Id share with the forum, to see what people reckon. At the very least "the quadracep with eyeballs" would be a fan favourite!
Both of his tries from yesterday:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=207349114664898
https://www.majorleague.rugby/news/try-of-the-week-rhino-rugby-championship-final/

 

[jirskyr]

So does anyone know what happened to our last signing or upgrade to our 30 man squad for 2021

Not much doing until we get some real administrators in (sheens)


You really need to examine the last years under Sheens, that was when our cap was starting to get out of control.We started shedding players to stay under the cap.He was nothing special as an administrator despite what you think.

You are Not comparing apples with apples. Club had no money back then with less resources and support.

I found Gould's comments interesting.

Given our season tend to agree our board, ceo, Hartigan and madge don't have the experience to get it done. Look how the players, player managers and media have blown up in their faces they don't have the network or know how handle the situation.

https://twitter.com/wwos/status/1422173307663699974?s=19

That's not really what Gould said.

He said Tim Sheens is a smart signing. He said lots of folks inside an organisation have an opinion and think they can improve results, but no offence, you need experience and connections to make that work.

Gould did not specifically say current people at the club lacked those connections, he simply said Tim Sheens has them.

He said it's not as bad as it looks, but nor are the wins that good. He said Tigers are clearly not the worst team in the comp, not by a long shot, and probably 10 of the clubs are in the same situation of being way off the Top 6.

He said the team struggles under pressure, because they are young and don't have the top-end roster, and that's not about the coach that's about the individuals.

He said young coaches should not attempt rebuilds, he couldn't think of a situation where that works out (Chammas asked him about Cameron Ciraldo). Gallen asked him should Tigers throw "stupid money" to get that key pillar player, he said probably not, they already tried to buy experience and it backfired dramatically.

Was a pretty measured comment overall - in my favourite headspace of "moderation". It's not as bad as it looks, nor are the highs that good either. It's not as straightforward as one strategy or one obvious solution.

The comment on how we buckle at the pressure playing teams outside the 8 interesting and our results certainly point to a correct theory. Could that be put down to a coaching issue?

Gould literally said, about buckling under pressure: "that's not the coach, that's the players". He then said it's not unique to the Tigers, it applies to all the clubs outside the Top 6.

 

[851]

Hi everyone, Its been a long time since I last posted here, so long in fact that I think my last post was under the sack sheens thread about a decade ago, and of course Id lost my log in details in the fog of time.
Anyway, over the years I've enjoyed reading the banter and the opinions, and appreciate the level of insight and footy nous that many on here have, and haven't really seen the need to contribute until yesterday.
To start with I'm a close friend of a player agent who manages rugby players primarily based in France, UK, Japan and the US. He used to manage NRL players as well, and without putting too finer point on it, knows his cattle.
Anyway we were watching the US Major League Rugby final yesterday. The Los Angeles team has a winger by the name of John Ryburg, he is 5'11, 107kg and very quick. He scored 2 tries in the finals and 9 over the season, equal third top scorer in the comp. He has a tackle efficiency of over 93% and runs like Maika Sivo. For reference he is in a team with Adam Ashley Cooper, Matt Giteau, Dave Dennis and Billy Meeks, so they're not a park footy side.
In an interview he wrote "If there’s no way around a defender I’m going to go through them because that’s my job…finish the foundation set by the forwards".
This guy is no Manfred Moore or Greg Smith, my mate tells me he can play. He cant kick well enough to make a top flight rugby player in Australia, but in his opinion, given the greater space to move with 2 less players the 10m advantage, he would be outstanding as a league player. Given the Salary Cap of the MLR is $500k, I'm pretty sure he comes cheap.
Anyway I thought Id share with the forum, to see what people reckon. At the very least "the quadracep with eyeballs" would be a fan favourite!
Both of his tries from yesterday:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=207349114664898
https://www.majorleague.rugby/news/try-of-the-week-rhino-rugby-championship-final/

You mentioned our favourite word, cheap, but the idea does have merit, better than shopping from other NRL teams cast offs

 

[jirskyr]

Gallen asked him should Tigers throw "stupid money" to get that key pillar player, he said probably not, they already tried to buy experience and it backfired dramatically.

To clarify, he said it backfired because we bought players well beyond their prime - Reynolds, Matalino, Tamou, Joey etc.

Paying overs for the wrong player is madness, paying overs for the right player is an investment. Ivan made some horrible choices.

Well the irony is that the bloke who did those signings pretty much usurped Gould at Penrith, whether or not Gould himself was totally supportive of Cleary re-joining Penrith, and he himself moved on shortly after.

But nobody challenged him on it. It's not that kind of panel show.

 

[voice_of_reason]

But how do you determine who is the right or wrong player before you sign them?

Hopefully Sheens and Madge can work it out. Age and injury history would be a good start, it's fairly easy to see guys who are ending their careers and guys coming into their prime.

If all else fails, they can start a thread on here and get expert advice.

 

[TigerSkins05]

So Gus is Trent (young coach) the right fit for rebuilding your dogs??

Trent Barratt is not the coach you want to do your rebuilding .. he couldnt build lego .. !!

 

[tiger_one]

So Gus is Trent (young coach) the right fit for rebuilding your dogs??

Trent Barratt is not the coach you want to do your rebuilding .. he couldnt build lego .. !!

Maybe someone could slap him into shape .......

 

[jadtiger]

But how do you determine who is the right or wrong player before you sign them?

Hopefully Sheens and Madge can work it out. Age and injury history would be a good start, it's fairly easy to see guys who are ending their careers and guys coming into their prime.

If all else fails, they can start a thread on here and get expert advice.

I love sarcasm

 

[851]

So Gus is Trent (young coach) the right fit for rebuilding your dogs??

Trent Barratt is not the coach you want to do your rebuilding .. he couldnt build lego .. !!

At this juncture in time, I would happily swap coaches with Canterbury

 

[tony soprano]

So does anyone know what happened to our last signing or upgrade to our 30 man squad for 2021

Not much doing until we get some real administrators in (sheens)


You really need to examine the last years under Sheens, that was when our cap was starting to get out of control.We started shedding players to stay under the cap.He was nothing special as an administrator despite what you think.

You are Not comparing apples with apples. Club had no money back then with less resources and support.

I found Gould's comments interesting.

Given our season tend to agree our board, ceo, Hartigan and madge don't have the experience to get it done. Look how the players, player managers and media have blown up in their faces they don't have the network or know how handle the situation.

https://twitter.com/wwos/status/1422173307663699974?s=19

That's not really what Gould said.

He said Tim Sheens is a smart signing. He said lots of folks inside an organisation have an opinion and think they can improve results, but no offence, you need experience and connections to make that work.

Gould did not specifically say current people at the club lacked those connections, he simply said Tim Sheens has them.

He said it's not as bad as it looks, but nor are the wins that good. He said Tigers are clearly not the worst team in the comp, not by a long shot, and probably 10 of the clubs are in the same situation of being way off the Top 6.

He said the team struggles under pressure, because they are young and don't have the top-end roster, and that's not about the coach that's about the individuals.

He said young coaches should not attempt rebuilds, he couldn't think of a situation where that works out (Chammas asked him about Cameron Ciraldo). Gallen asked him should Tigers throw "stupid money" to get that key pillar player, he said probably not, they already tried to buy experience and it backfired dramatically.

Was a pretty measured comment overall - in my favourite headspace of "moderation". It's not as bad as it looks, nor are the highs that good either. It's not as straightforward as one strategy or one obvious solution.

The comment on how we buckle at the pressure playing teams outside the 8 interesting and our results certainly point to a correct theory. Could that be put down to a coaching issue?

Gould literally said, about buckling under pressure: "that's not the coach, that's the players". He then said it's not unique to the Tigers, it applies to all the clubs outside the Top 6.

That should be coached out of them. They not in the right frame of mind which is on the coach too

 

[yeahcaz]

So Gus is Trent (young coach) the right fit for rebuilding your dogs??

Exactly what I said on Twitter. Says young coaches aren’t good for rebuilds yet there’s 3 off the top of my head right now and one works for his club.

 

[yeahcaz]

So does anyone know what happened to our last signing or upgrade to our 30 man squad for 2021

Not much doing until we get some real administrators in (sheens)


You really need to examine the last years under Sheens, that was when our cap was starting to get out of control.We started shedding players to stay under the cap.He was nothing special as an administrator despite what you think.

You are Not comparing apples with apples. Club had no money back then with less resources and support.

I found Gould's comments interesting.

Given our season tend to agree our board, ceo, Hartigan and madge don't have the experience to get it done. Look how the players, player managers and media have blown up in their faces they don't have the network or know how handle the situation.

https://twitter.com/wwos/status/1422173307663699974?s=19

That's not really what Gould said.

He said Tim Sheens is a smart signing. He said lots of folks inside an organisation have an opinion and think they can improve results, but no offence, you need experience and connections to make that work.

Gould did not specifically say current people at the club lacked those connections, he simply said Tim Sheens has them.

He said it's not as bad as it looks, but nor are the wins that good. He said Tigers are clearly not the worst team in the comp, not by a long shot, and probably 10 of the clubs are in the same situation of being way off the Top 6.

He said the team struggles under pressure, because they are young and don't have the top-end roster, and that's not about the coach that's about the individuals.

He said young coaches should not attempt rebuilds, he couldn't think of a situation where that works out (Chammas asked him about Cameron Ciraldo). Gallen asked him should Tigers throw "stupid money" to get that key pillar player, he said probably not, they already tried to buy experience and it backfired dramatically.

Was a pretty measured comment overall - in my favourite headspace of "moderation". It's not as bad as it looks, nor are the highs that good either. It's not as straightforward as one strategy or one obvious solution.

The comment on how we buckle at the pressure playing teams outside the 8 interesting and our results certainly point to a correct theory. Could that be put down to a coaching issue?

Gould literally said, about buckling under pressure: "that's not the coach, that's the players". He then said it's not unique to the Tigers, it applies to all the clubs outside the Top 6.

That should be coached out of them. They not in the right frame of mind which is on the coach too

Agree that’s a bloody cop out. All those rubbish players that go to Melbourne and become world beaters, are coached to become better.

 

[jirskyr]

So does anyone know what happened to our last signing or upgrade to our 30 man squad for 2021

Not much doing until we get some real administrators in (sheens)


You really need to examine the last years under Sheens, that was when our cap was starting to get out of control.We started shedding players to stay under the cap.He was nothing special as an administrator despite what you think.

You are Not comparing apples with apples. Club had no money back then with less resources and support.

I found Gould's comments interesting.

Given our season tend to agree our board, ceo, Hartigan and madge don't have the experience to get it done. Look how the players, player managers and media have blown up in their faces they don't have the network or know how handle the situation.

https://twitter.com/wwos/status/1422173307663699974?s=19

That's not really what Gould said.

He said Tim Sheens is a smart signing. He said lots of folks inside an organisation have an opinion and think they can improve results, but no offence, you need experience and connections to make that work.

Gould did not specifically say current people at the club lacked those connections, he simply said Tim Sheens has them.

He said it's not as bad as it looks, but nor are the wins that good. He said Tigers are clearly not the worst team in the comp, not by a long shot, and probably 10 of the clubs are in the same situation of being way off the Top 6.

He said the team struggles under pressure, because they are young and don't have the top-end roster, and that's not about the coach that's about the individuals.

He said young coaches should not attempt rebuilds, he couldn't think of a situation where that works out (Chammas asked him about Cameron Ciraldo). Gallen asked him should Tigers throw "stupid money" to get that key pillar player, he said probably not, they already tried to buy experience and it backfired dramatically.

Was a pretty measured comment overall - in my favourite headspace of "moderation". It's not as bad as it looks, nor are the highs that good either. It's not as straightforward as one strategy or one obvious solution.

The comment on how we buckle at the pressure playing teams outside the 8 interesting and our results certainly point to a correct theory. Could that be put down to a coaching issue?

Gould literally said, about buckling under pressure: "that's not the coach, that's the players". He then said it's not unique to the Tigers, it applies to all the clubs outside the Top 6.

That should be coached out of them. They not in the right frame of mind which is on the coach too

Agree that’s a bloody cop out. All those rubbish players that go to Melbourne and become world beaters, are coached to become better.

You could fairly argue that Melbourne are alone there.

The other clubs, even Penrith, have proven to crumble under pressure. In fact especially Penrith, losing the GF, then a run of games during Origin, then getting towelled by the Storm last weekend. I'm actually embarrassed for Penrith how uncompetitive they are proving to be against Melbourne. It's like they are hoping to be the Aranxta Sanchez Vicario of the NRL.

 

[supercoach]

Gus was very open about his opinion that Barrett (as a young coach) would be silly to take on the Dogs' job, given the size of the rebuild, so he is at least consistent there.
Everything he says has a tinge of an agenda, but I think his comments on the Tigers are pretty apt here. We need to keep on the Laurie/Stefano train and build up from within. Inconsistency will be a huge issue with such a young team, but if we're able to stay the course, and supplement them with some experienced bodies, then we'll eventually be able to attract rep players.
That's the plan anyway. In reality, the NRL is a flimsy kangaroo court of an economy, so in all likelihood someone like the Roosters will coax one of these guys to agitate for a release as soon as they develop a little more, and thus we'll be back to square one.
Plus ca change.

That is exactly the problem we face. We pump money and resources into a rebuild, mainly around elite junior talent, with a real chance they will be poached by one of the so called glamour clubs when they have served their apprenticeship.

I guess the trick is getting them to stick around, although that did work with the last couple of standout kids we had