Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[hank37w]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

Come on guys, are we so scarred from Packer and Reynolds that we can’t tell good from bad anymore.

- he’s played in 7 grand finals (so far)
- Captains the Melbourne Storm
- who should have put 80 on us last week
- scores tries pretty regularly
- current NSW origin player in a very good team
- absolute rock in defense which is our problem
- was pursued by Belly ache
- would change the narrative that WT can’t attract premier players

I get he’s not a young dynamic attacking weapon but I’d rather get beat in a close defensive struggle than flogged by 50.

Perfectly said.... We should be at his managers door ASAP.

We would probably require the assistance of the Riot Squad to break down the door.

 

[sleeve]

Getting fanucane and TPJ will make no difference until we change the 7.. Brooks has to go. He cannot swing momentum and he cannot take options that keep pressure on the opposition. Need a leader at 7... after 8 failed yrs it'd time to cut our losses.

As for pascoe don't think he is going anywhere unfortunately until his number one KPI is delivered. The centre of excellence. There Is alot of government money at stake and last thing we need is a change at that level to bugger this up too. It will transform this club to a destination.

No idea!

 

[Tigers_Tigers]

Getting fanucane and TPJ will make no difference until we change the 7.. Brooks has to go. He cannot swing momentum and he cannot take options that keep pressure on the opposition. Need a leader at 7... after 8 failed yrs it'd time to cut our losses.

As for pascoe don't think he is going anywhere unfortunately until his number one KPI is delivered. The centre of excellence. There Is alot of government money at stake and last thing we need is a change at that level to bugger this up too. It will transform this club to a destination.

I completely agree about brooks, the club has to make the hard decisions just like what dragons and Cronulla are doing right now by saying goodbye to their big money players who aren’t delivering. Brooks has to go we will never win a premiership as long as he is our half, go out and sign Pearce who will be our main half who will lead the team pair him with Hastings or doueihi who in my opinion is a great running half.
Ordinary players aren’t good enough anymore we need to be straight and realise that players like Talau,garner,tamou,roberts,brooks,mbye and liddle won’t bring us success.

 

[Goldust]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

I agree completely. Finucane was an honest plodder with the Dogs but is yet another example of the brilliance and influence of Craig Bellamy in transforming his limited skills into excellence.

But, we don't have Craig Bellamy or his Storm systems. There is no guarantee that Finucane would offer the WT what he does at the Storm, so why pay some inflated price for him?

That’s exactly my thoughts
**I’m not exactly against signing him,but he may be another Proctor,Glasby or Blair at another team.**

Yep it's why I'd also prefer Brandon Smith alongside of him. Not doubting his leadership skills at all but just trying to factor in how his age, our team needs and him coming from that system will vary from his current influence or input.
It wouldn't exactly matter to me if it wasn't a huge contract offer. But I feel we'd need to be getting game breakers for the price and length (of contract) though.

Definitely,we should be throwing everything at Brandon Smith,absolute competitor.not your conventional leader but leads by example and brings so much energy.

 

[Cairnstigers]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

Come on guys, are we so scarred from Packer and Reynolds that we can’t tell good from bad anymore.

- he’s played in 7 grand finals (so far)
- Captains the Melbourne Storm
- who should have put 80 on us last week
- scores tries pretty regularly
- current NSW origin player in a very good team
- absolute rock in defense which is our problem
- was pursued by Belly ache
- would change the narrative that WT can’t attract premier players

I get he’s not a young dynamic attacking weapon but I’d rather get beat in a close defensive struggle than flogged by 50.

Close defensive struggles don't exist anymore.

Melbourne conceding 2 tries per game.

We scored 3, how good are we?

I guarantee you Bellamy addressed that.

Of course he would
Every thing else they did was spot on so there was nothing else to talk about

 

[BAGNF05]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

I agree completely. Finucane was an honest plodder with the Dogs but is yet another example of the brilliance and influence of Craig Bellamy in transforming his limited skills into excellence.

But, we don't have Craig Bellamy or his Storm systems. There is no guarantee that Finucane would offer the WT what he does at the Storm, so why pay some inflated price for him?

That’s exactly my thoughts
**I’m not exactly against signing him,but he may be another Proctor,Glasby or Blair at another team.**

Yep it's why I'd also prefer Brandon Smith alongside of him. Not doubting his leadership skills at all but just trying to factor in how his age, our team needs and him coming from that system will vary from his current influence or input.
It wouldn't exactly matter to me if it wasn't a huge contract offer. But I feel we'd need to be getting game breakers for the price and length (of contract) though.

Completely agree.

Our leadership group would be

Finucane
Tamou
Doueihi

Feels like we are still one or two short conpared to the better sides. Brandon Smith or Jayden Sua would be good.

 

[tigertuff]

Until this club gets fair dinkum and rewards good consistent performances we are kidding ourselves. I have tried to like Tamou since he joined the club but he has offered us nothing. He talks well but i want action on the field. Captains are supposed to inspire through actions and everyone follows because he is playing his guts out. He has failed in that regard and should be playing reserve grade.
Madge is continually picking players with so called potential. The potential should be found in reserve grade first. Get back to the lower grades and dominate consistently and then you will deserve to be picked. Amone came across to us and played a couple of ok games in reggies without standing out and he is picked in first grade. It is sending the wrong message to everyone in the club. Was he the best player and his performances warranted to be picked- i dont think so.

 

[Demps]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

I agree completely. Finucane was an honest plodder with the Dogs but is yet another example of the brilliance and influence of Craig Bellamy in transforming his limited skills into excellence.

But, we don't have Craig Bellamy or his Storm systems. There is no guarantee that Finucane would offer the WT what he does at the Storm, so why pay some inflated price for him?

That’s exactly my thoughts
**I’m not exactly against signing him,but he may be another Proctor,Glasby or Blair at another team.**

Yep it's why I'd also prefer Brandon Smith alongside of him. Not doubting his leadership skills at all but just trying to factor in how his age, our team needs and him coming from that system will vary from his current influence or input.
It wouldn't exactly matter to me if it wasn't a huge contract offer. But I feel we'd need to be getting game breakers for the price and length (of contract) though.

Definitely,we should be throwing everything at Brandon Smith,absolute competitor.not your conventional leader but leads by example and brings so much energy.

Did u see he has a fight contract lined up, lol...
So does Tuamalolo.

 

[Goldust]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

I agree completely. Finucane was an honest plodder with the Dogs but is yet another example of the brilliance and influence of Craig Bellamy in transforming his limited skills into excellence.

But, we don't have Craig Bellamy or his Storm systems. There is no guarantee that Finucane would offer the WT what he does at the Storm, so why pay some inflated price for him?

That’s exactly my thoughts
**I’m not exactly against signing him,but he may be another Proctor,Glasby or Blair at another team.**

Yep it's why I'd also prefer Brandon Smith alongside of him. Not doubting his leadership skills at all but just trying to factor in how his age, our team needs and him coming from that system will vary from his current influence or input.
It wouldn't exactly matter to me if it wasn't a huge contract offer. But I feel we'd need to be getting game breakers for the price and length (of contract) though.

Definitely,we should be throwing everything at Brandon Smith,absolute competitor.not your conventional leader but leads by example and brings so much energy.

Did u see he has a fight contract lined up, lol...
So does Tuamalolo.

? I didn’t see that.
I wonder how they will go ? probably chat like most footy players.

 

[iofthetigers]

For the record

The Tigers Should be in discussions with both TPJ and Dale Finucane.

The Tigers should be chasing Finucane,josh Jackson & James Maloney the club needs leaders badly,even Woods is more appealing than TPJ

 

[BalmainJnr]

TPJ & Hectic Cheese combo please

 

[The_Patriot]

For the record

The Tigers Should be in discussions with both TPJ and Dale Finucane.

The Tigers should be chasing Finucane,josh Jackson & James Maloney the club needs leaders badly,even Woods is more appealing than TPJ

Woods and leadership do not exist in the same conversation. Go check yourself

 

[wet tiger coloured bird]

we pay a bit more but only for 1 year. if perform well extend. i rather pay 1 mil for one year to see performance than two years at 800k

 

[Tiger5150]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

I agree completely. Finucane was an honest plodder with the Dogs but is yet another example of the brilliance and influence of Craig Bellamy in transforming his limited skills into excellence.

But, we don't have Craig Bellamy or his Storm systems. There is no guarantee that Finucane would offer the WT what he does at the Storm, so why pay some inflated price for him?

That’s exactly my thoughts
**I’m not exactly against signing him,but he may be another Proctor,Glasby or Blair at another team.**

Yep it's why I'd also prefer Brandon Smith alongside of him. Not doubting his leadership skills at all but just trying to factor in how his age, our team needs and him coming from that system will vary from his current influence or input.
It wouldn't exactly matter to me if it wasn't a huge contract offer. But I feel we'd need to be getting game breakers for the price and length (of contract) though.

Definitely,we should be throwing everything at Brandon Smith,absolute competitor.not your conventional leader but leads by example and brings so much energy.

Did u see he has a fight contract lined up, lol...
So does Tuamalolo.

? I didn’t see that.
I wonder how they will go ? probably chat like most footy players.

Brandon Smith fought before league. Genuine boxing pedigree

 

[sleeve]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

I agree completely. Finucane was an honest plodder with the Dogs but is yet another example of the brilliance and influence of Craig Bellamy in transforming his limited skills into excellence.

But, we don't have Craig Bellamy or his Storm systems. There is no guarantee that Finucane would offer the WT what he does at the Storm, so why pay some inflated price for him?

Because we have to do something... We have waited 10 + Years and if we were to get him we will be getting others.

Desperation overules common sense in some. Thats why our bad signings got us in this position in the fist place.

 

[Demps]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

I agree completely. Finucane was an honest plodder with the Dogs but is yet another example of the brilliance and influence of Craig Bellamy in transforming his limited skills into excellence.

But, we don't have Craig Bellamy or his Storm systems. There is no guarantee that Finucane would offer the WT what he does at the Storm, so why pay some inflated price for him?

That’s exactly my thoughts
**I’m not exactly against signing him,but he may be another Proctor,Glasby or Blair at another team.**

Yep it's why I'd also prefer Brandon Smith alongside of him. Not doubting his leadership skills at all but just trying to factor in how his age, our team needs and him coming from that system will vary from his current influence or input.
It wouldn't exactly matter to me if it wasn't a huge contract offer. But I feel we'd need to be getting game breakers for the price and length (of contract) though.

Definitely,we should be throwing everything at Brandon Smith,absolute competitor.not your conventional leader but leads by example and brings so much energy.

Did u see he has a fight contract lined up, lol...
So does Tuamalolo.

? I didn’t see that.
I wonder how they will go ? probably chat like most footy players.

I think they're putting together another NRL boxing card for November.

They're two who will be on it.
Not against each other I'd assume but yeah... good luck to whoever pays for that ??

 

[earl]

All this talk about leadership ( Finucane) sounds like last year with Tamou.
Who is to say it wont turn out the same way.

I agree completely. Finucane was an honest plodder with the Dogs but is yet another example of the brilliance and influence of Craig Bellamy in transforming his limited skills into excellence.

But, we don't have Craig Bellamy or his Storm systems. There is no guarantee that Finucane would offer the WT what he does at the Storm, so why pay some inflated price for him?

Because we have to do something... We have waited 10 + Years and if we were to get him we will be getting others.

We did something when we bought Tamou. We also did something when we bought Josh Reynolds, Adam Blair, Mbye, resigned Nofo etc. We did something when we got Doueihi and Luc.

The club will always be doing something. There will always be players signing up to play for us.

We can't pay inflated prices for players anymore. That is why it's hard to build a roster.

If we can get him at a fair price then go for it.

 

[earl]

TPJ & Hectic Cheese combo please

This is what we need. Those two signings would be great for us.

 

[weststigers]

Why would anyone want to sign here ? Genuine question.

To play first grade and win the comp. It can be turned around pretty easily with quality players. If I was a quality player it'd be really easy for me to sign up to the Tigers. If my son was a quality player I'd push him to sign with the Tigers.

Really? What would draw you to us?

Pretty simple - playing first grade and winning the comp. What is wrong with that ? Honestly I don't see any valid counter argument.

But if other clubs want you aswell? I can see players come here if it's their only choice but that's no choice at all.

agree, its not just an issue for our club but competition wide.
Why are the Storm, Roosters consistently at the top? They get the choice of the elite young talent because those young players know they are walking straight into a strong team. They then also then get their pick of the talent who have been around a while but never won anything as they want to go to a strong team for a shot at a title. Finally, they can generally keep their top players because they have been successful at that club they feel a sense of belonging there.

The lower teams however need to pay massive overs to attract talent. But they are then instantly disadvantaged as their salary cap is now disproportional and can not sign enough elite talent to field a strong team. So they continue to underperform and remain a lower team.

Been saying it for years, the salary cap disadvantages the lower teams because they have to pay overs so the get less bang for their cap

got any solutions?

I have but I have been down this track a million times on this forum and others…basically every club is given 1000 points and every player no matter what you pay them is graded by some means..ie Australian rep,SOO rep, 200 gamer,first year rookie. So all your 30 players are given a grade by the NRL and have to fit within the 1000 points. That ensures you have a level playing field, because at present the playing field is not flat. It would stop teams getting advantages out of TPAs. Anyway not worth debating, because it will not happen. The NRL is controlled by people with self interests

100% correct. I'd expand on that by making it a dollar value and the market would set the rate, so if one club offers x, another can't offer y and use the old "they want to come here to win a comp so they took less".
I'd also make the initial rookie contract at a club the value of that player until that player decides to go elsewhere, so, for example, Alex Seyfarth would always be valued on the WT cap as say $250k, no matter what WT are actually paying him, but if he chose to leave he would be valued at his new club at market rate. That would encourage clubs to either develop their juniors or scout them very early, rather than just buy the guts out of poorer clubs.
I know this means a club with plenty of good juniors would be actually paying way over the agreed value of their roster, or the salary cap, but the better roster should also attract better sponsorship and TPA's.

I can't agree with that either, players deserve a say in where they play and if they want to take less to play for a team I wouldn't want to prevent that.

I do believe there should be salary cap concessions for long term and developed players larger than there is now but keeping them at their rookie levels goes too far the other way.

Yep, sorry, I'll clarify:
Players can choose to take less but they should be allocated a true market value as their cost to the clubs cap, otherwise the Roosters still end up with everyone.
I know the rookie contract bit is a bit of a reach, but you get my drift on rewarding junior development and discouraging raiding. Maybe a maximum value of 500k?
If Teddy was going to be a salary cap cost of, say $800k to the Roosters, along with Luke Keary at $800k, JWH at $500, Cooper Cronk $1m, Angus Chricton $800, there's 40% of their cap gone on 5 players. They've got to start pulling their heads in rather than chasing someone else's gun edge to replace Boyd Cordner.

Why can't it be looked at like this
Use a rating system for the top players in each position across all clubs
Eg the 16 starting fullbacks get rated by there peers and get a ranking from 1 to 16
Tedesco gets a 1 Trbojevic a 2 Papenhuyzen a 3 and so on
In the end when you add up all the scores your players receive your team is given a score
If you had the best 13 players in each position you would have a score of 16
If you have the worst players in each position you would have a score of 208
If every team had an even distribution of quality players the average score per team would be around 104 points
That is what the league should be trying to achieve
It takes the $ out of the equation so it doesn't matter if a team tries to cheat the cap
It won't work
The points a player receives is purely based on their peers and maybe some statistical or expert opinions
You would find it hard to argue against that system although some teams may not like it
If you exceed your points then you should be made to release a player or two to get it back in line with and acceptable average plus or minus 5%
Now in saying all of that, if a team was in excess of the average points score, they should not be allowed to sign a player that increases their average score
So someone like Brandon Smith would not be allowed to go to someone like the Roosters unless they were in the points position to do so

This system would eventually even the playing field
It should also not deprive a player from his earnings

Also players who play all their junior football at the one club and get developed by that club could receive some kind of points relief while at the same club

You could also have another points system for the next best 13 players at each club to stop the stock piling
This would force the talent to spread across all clubs

So when would these evaluations of players occur?

It would occur at the end of each season
The club would then have 12 months to shed enough players / Points
People will always come up with excuses as to why it shouldn't happen but that's just what they are, excuses
If teams can manage their cap
Then they can manage a points system like this

So they may have to drop players mid contract that they turned into better players?

Those things would have to be worked out
But every year a number of players come off contract
Say you have 7 players coming off contract and their points tally was 50
You may need to fill those 7 positions with say 70 points otherwise you won't fit within the allocated points system
The better the player the lower the point they carry

It's really not to different from players being forced out of a club because of cap constraints due to a club being successful

These things happen
So look at Penrith for example
They have had to release Hetherington, Tetevano, Tamou, Laurie, Mansour, Dean Whare all last year because of cap constraints
Adding a points system to your players would even up the competition
If it doesn't happen we may as well give up because the competition will never be even
We will continue to have lop sided scores
No of us want that
How many people are turning off early or walking out of games early
Something is wrong with the way this is all working out at the moment


Horse racing has weight handicaps is that fair ?
Golf can have handicaps
Drag racing has time handicaps
All these things don't seem fair, but they work to even up the competition

Its completely different as their valuation could completely change mid contract.

Just because one players value increases doesn't mean they all do
Some players values will fall creating space
If a players value increases it doesn't mean you off load him
What it means is the players who are off contract may need to be replaced with a player of lesser value
I guess I am talking of situations like when Roosters signed Cronk and Teddy
They already had a very strong team full of origin and Australian and international players
All of a sudden they sign two more of the best players available
That needs to stop or this game and many clubs will be ruined
How many of us will continue to follow the Tigers in 10 to 15 years if we continue to get flogged and miss the 8
Many of us will walk away from following the game

Yeah and what if the ones that increase are the ones you have on contract and the ones that decrease are the ones coming off contract, it would decimate a team and they may not be able to sign players to replace the off contract players. I think it would be a terrible system and would much prefer what we have now with centralised contracts and payments.

And that won't work when players want to go to strong clubs and take understand to do so
It's easy to come up with reasons why the system shouldn't change or to find holes in someone's Suggestions
All I know is the current system is not working and there needs to be a fix
Or we might as well have two conferences and be done with it

If you don't point out holes in someone's suggestions then you end up in a worst place than we are now. I do not think a points based system is better than what we currently have.

At the moment the cap isn't working because of players willing to take unders to go to a stronger club
They may also get other un reported benefits

By introducing a system that evens the playing field on the ability of players at each club, you will end up with a much more even competition and much closer games then those we currently have
It also takes out getting paid unders and un reported benefits out of the equation

An even competition will keep all supporters interested in watching the full game and not turn off at half time because that is what is happening now

Centralised payments through the Nrl won't achieve an even playing field when players are willing to take unders

The whole idea of the cap was to even the competition and make it a closer competition That has clearly not worked and never will

A point system will not work, it is too subjective and punishing a team mid contract for a player improving is counter productive.

Ok then
Let's say Penrith win the competition and they have 7 players off contract at the end of the season
Because they win the comp the seven players value is likely to increase and they all want a contract upgrade
But the cap restricts that from happening so Penrith need to release players to stay under the cap
Is that not counter productive and punishing a team

Having to manage your cap to fit in players under your allowance or having to manage your points in which you have to fit players within your allowance both result in clubs needing to release players
One of them is determined by $
The other by the talent in your team
Either way players are forced out of clubs

How do they replace those players when the 23 left all have increases to their points as well?

Sorry to jump in. Rookies would be on lower points and would need to come in to fill the gaps left by players on higher points. It’s a system used in various Park football comps. It will never get signed off by god, sorry, Nick.

It's a rubbish system and far too subjective. All it will lead to his complaints about player valuations.

This…

Plus, you would have to layer the points system over the salary cap…what a nightmare.

People only look at the top end of town, but we have players playing for us well under what other clubs would pay for them now like Daine Laurie.

Even centralised contracts won’t stop under the table payments unless the NRL mandates that a player must go to the highest bidder. Probably falls under restraint of trade though.

If equalisation is the end game, and I’m not in favour of it, you would simply mandate that teams can only field a max of, say 3 origin players and 3 top tier internationals (NZ, AUS, GB) or some variation of that. That would force teams to restructure their rosters, but it also means lots of cattle trading every year. Depends what the objectives are I guess.

That would just mean the top teams stock up in the best pacific islander talent and would disadvantage players from the top tier internationals

Exactly...you and I agree....the cap, while imperfect, is the most perfect of the alternatives.

You may as well just get rid of the cap
Because as it stands it ain't working and we all know it's been rorted
And if a club goes broke then to bad
Someone else will by the licence

Now you can't tell me players are taking 2,3,4 or even $500'000 less to play on a strong team
Would anyone on here give that kind of money up
I sure as hell wouldn't
What was it that LM was offered to come to us
And he signed with souths for how much
The cap is useless and it is not having the desired affect
So allow players earn as much as they can outside the cap
If Nick wants to throw an extra $500'000 of his own $ at a player then so be it

Agree…both systems have different objectives though, so it depends on your desired outcome.

 

[Barnsta B]

I agree with most on here about finucane but i would only pay overs for 2 years with a club option for the 3rd.
I've always liked Brooks but i think he needs to go. It will prob do him some good and the club.
I feel for Roberts cause he just doesn't get any good ball but I wouldn't resign him unless he just play reggies and is a back up.
Bj gotta go along with Mybe. LL i am thinking is a bit torn between the club and his brother n it prob is pretty hard on him.
I don't think Tamou is what we had hoped for he might be great off the field but when this season has even cracked 80m.
Noffa might make good metres but his defence never gets better.
There needs to be changes all over the club from the top to the bottom.
I will always be optimistic cause I love the club and I really want them to just win some games