@jc99 said in [Signing Suggestions & Rumours](/post/1399333) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [Signing Suggestions & Rumours](/post/1399326) said:
I think Tamou has been pretty disappointing on field. I'm not talking about his leadership or the other intangibles he brings, which i'm sure are very valuable, but as a player I think he's quite a bit off the pace. 82m from a starting front rower isn't good enough imo. He's also been pretty suspect in defence.
It's 82 metres in limited minutes though, Madge keeps him off the field for over half the game normally. His output for the time he's out there is fine
I agree. He's doing exactly what we signed him for - decent first output and leadership qualities, not some rampaging metre-eater that he has possibly never been in his career.
Is Tamou the best prop in the side? I say he is. Alex Twal is a workhorse and some of the other guys have had good stints during the year, but reliable go-forward and defence from the first minute - that's Tamou.
Also Tamou playing in a young and low-success forward pack, not some star-studded pack that share the workload. I don't know how anyone just ignores his role for Penrith last year and the fact that he was both starting prop and captain in an undefeated regular-season side.
Interesting bit of analysis too if you break it down to the concept of minutes. Tamou averages 41.7 minutes per game. Why? Is he really gassed? If he is gassed, is that because he's doing all the hard work? Is it just the coach's strategy and he could go longer? I don't think you can answer any of that without being the coach.
And then the reverse - for players that stay on for long minutes, does their output drop because of the workload toll, and then it becomes another avenue of criticism for what I feel are often pre-conceived ideas. So if a player you are going after plays low minutes "he isn't fit enough" and if he plays high minutes but his output plateaus "he should be having a breather".
Anyway Tamou specifically
* 625 minutes played all season, 15 matches (all starting), 41.7 minutes per game.
* 1244 total run metres, 2.0 metres per minute on-field
* 9 tackle breaks, 0.014 TB per minute
* 117 hitups, average 7.8 hitups, av 0.012 hitups per minute, av. 10.62m per hitup.
* Post-contact metres 463 = 37.2% of his run metres are post-contact.
* 412 tackles, 0.66 tackles per minute, 96.5% efficiency
By comparison to a top-tier prop JWH
* 680 minutes played, 14 matches (8 off the bench), 48.6 min per game. 13.
* 2133 total run metres, 3.1 metres per minute
* 6 tackle breaks, 0.009 TB per minute
* 183 hitups, average 13.1 hitups, av 0.019 hitups per minute, av. 11.66 m per hitup
* PCM 787.8m = 37.3% of run metres
* 422 tackles, 0.62 tackles per min, 92.5% efficiency
So JWH plays more minutes but has started less than half his matches. Makes less tackles per minute and is less efficient in tackles.
Both players make more than 10m per run. JWH makes 1m more but he takes more runs per match (68% more), so his total metres is substantially bigger. JWH makes 1m more ground for every minute he is on the field. Both players make the same amount of post-contact ground for the total ground they make.
Overall therefore JWH starts far less often and makes less tackles, and is less good at defending. But he makes up for that with more run efforts and a little more yardage per run. Even when you take into account minutes played, JWH still makes more ground from more efforts, but he's substantially less likely to bust a tackle.
Now I would say JWH is a better prop than Tamou, no argument, but his output is not so clearly better than you can't wipe Tamou aside without some consideration of context. For example, JWH starts less than half his matches and that must surely impact his ability to increase his minutes by avoiding the early contest.
Tamou also makes his defensive attempts from the outset and at the death (he is on early and late) and is still a better defender than JWH.
A few other comparisons. If the focus is on metres per match for starting props, there are some other comparable outputs from props in the top-tier teams: Jesse Bromwich averages 100m per match, Moses Leota makes 109m, Junior Paulo makes 126m, Junior Tatola 97m, Liam Knight 93m.
Then you have to start asking about some less tangibles - is JWH aided by a superior pack and a superior overall roster? Does he have more "space" to make his runs when Roosters are on top in matches.
Do Tigers forwards in general struggle for metres gained because we lose so many of our matches and several of those losses are hidings? For example can you truly measure the output of a forward in the Melbourne Storm match when we barely touched the football for the first 20 minutes, then the starting props were subbed off?
I think the only thing you can really say, by way of comparison, is Tamou's output is alright, without being horrible. He doesn't make as many metres as a top-level prop, but I don't think that has ever been his role and you need to consider his output in context of the team he plays for and what's being asked of him on the field.
