Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[Curly_Tiger]

Rough Cap maths here
Warning, there's assumptions and educated guesses here and some of it may be stating the obvious, but here goes anyway .........

If we reckon we have maybe $500k up our sleeve (more on that later) on the 2020 cap, then we free up around $1.6m for Benji, Lawrence, Jennings, McQueen & Taylor, plus an extra $100k in the 21 Cap, that takes us to $2.2m

Reynolds & Packer both run to 2021 so that's a combined $1.45m we seem to be stuck with, let's hope not, they are the dollars which could make a big difference to us

Let's assume we keep Clark, Eisenhuth and McIntyre. Eisenhuth same $ for a year, Clark & McIntyre up around $200k combined [Takes us to $2.0m]

All other base $ players stay on the same or are replaced by others on the same

Momo is coming back and would have got an upgrade for 21 & 22 of let's go with $150k per season, he hadn't done much when we signed him first time around [$1.85m]

Mbye was subsidised by the Dogs until 2020 so he lifts by around $200k [$1.65m]

I have Talau, Garner & Twal all lifting slightly based on the timings of their extensions prior to the end of their previous deals, all up not a lot, say $200k combined [$1.45m]

BJ Leilua and Douehi both lift as prior club contributions drop back, estimated an additional combined $300k for 21 [$1.15m]

Uto joins us, sounded like a back ended 3 year $800k deal so likely around $200k [$0.95m]

If we had some cap space in 2020 I'd imagine we prepay some of the future commitments so that's $500k coming back in to the pot [$1.45m]

We then need 4 players with $1.45m, seems tough to go crazy with that. It seems to me that unless we move on some of our big dollar under performers, it's hard to get more than one big name signing

Of course there will be other movement that could help, but at a high level, that's a guess at where we might be at

Mbye, JRey & big Kerry would still be on the books for at least $2.2m in 2021 (Mbye until 2022) so that's the key to really transform our squad

 

[JC99]

TPJ is more ill disciplined than BJ and probably hasn’t played a good game in a year, I’d pass

To be fair not many have played well under Seibold. TPJ is a talent and would improve our pack out of sight.

His offloads would help us a lot. We only seem to start doing them when we are already winning, warriors killed us with them almost like having an extra tackle or two every set

No doubt we'd be a much better team with him in it. I can't see it happening in a million years though.

Yeah, we need second rowers but I’m not sure if he is one. Can’t see us spending big on another middle forward

Given who we've been targeting i can't really see us spending big on anyone.

Gonna be interesting to see what we do. We do have a decent amount of money freed up but have a few spots to fill. Let’s see who gets moved on at seasons end

 

[avocadoontoast]

TPJ is more ill disciplined than BJ and probably hasn’t played a good game in a year, I’d pass

To be fair not many have played well under Seibold. TPJ is a talent and would improve our pack out of sight.

His offloads would help us a lot. We only seem to start doing them when we are already winning, warriors killed us with them almost like having an extra tackle or two every set

No doubt we'd be a much better team with him in it. I can't see it happening in a million years though.

Yeah, we need second rowers but I’m not sure if he is one. Can’t see us spending big on another middle forward

Given who we've been targeting i can't really see us spending big on anyone.

Gonna be interesting to see what we do. We do have a decent amount of money freed up but have a few spots to fill. Let’s see who gets moved on at seasons end

Well we need to do something as we can't afford to write off yet another year. Big offseason for the coach and recruitment guys.

 

[Curly_Tiger]

Based on my estimates, I'd probably re-think Benji and keep him around for another year, emotion aside, he is good value for money

 

[2005magic]

Based on my estimates, I'd probably re-think Benji and keep him around for another year, emotion aside, he is good value for money

I'd willingly keep Benji on next year- as a coaching assistant and club ambassador. Not on playing roster.

 

[jadtiger]

I must be one of the few who dosent rate Widdop highly,he also seems to have negative effects on team harmony

What!!!!

There where many rumours at the dragons about him not getting on with other players(from someone connected within the club).To be honest i have never rated him highly even when at Melbourne

 

[TYGA]

Based on my estimates, I'd probably re-think Benji and keep him around for another year, emotion aside, he is good value for money

I agree on the field but the club has to move on from a leadership perspective. We need new leaders it’s why I’d offload Mbye and not sign Lawrence or Benji. The club needs to grow with these youngsters and new leaders need to emerge.

 

[jadtiger]

Based on my estimates, I'd probably re-think Benji and keep him around for another year, emotion aside, he is good value for money

IMO he has already played 2 seasons too long why make it 3?I am in favour of Benji still being at the club but not as a player,we need to improve our roster not root it in the past

 

[JC99]

TPJ is more ill disciplined than BJ and probably hasn’t played a good game in a year, I’d pass

To be fair not many have played well under Seibold. TPJ is a talent and would improve our pack out of sight.

His offloads would help us a lot. We only seem to start doing them when we are already winning, warriors killed us with them almost like having an extra tackle or two every set

No doubt we'd be a much better team with him in it. I can't see it happening in a million years though.

Yeah, we need second rowers but I’m not sure if he is one. Can’t see us spending big on another middle forward

Given who we've been targeting i can't really see us spending big on anyone.

Gonna be interesting to see what we do. We do have a decent amount of money freed up but have a few spots to fill. Let’s see who gets moved on at seasons end

Well we need to do something as we can't afford to write off yet another year. Big offseason for the coach and recruitment guys.

At the moment there’s not heaps of spots open in the team, a decent amount of coin but nothing huge. Hopefully they find a way to move some guys on otherwise they won’t be able to do much

 

[fibrodreaming]

We then need 4 players with $1.45m, seems tough to go crazy with that.

Curly, I can't comment on your $ calculations, but your assumptions about the number of places left in the squad to fill for 2021 do not appear to be consistent with the WT site.

The WT site includes a list of 24 players currently contracted for 2021. Interestingly, that list does not include Paul Momoroskvi, whom we have all been assuming will return next year. If so then that makes 25 contracted players.

Your assumption that we extend Eisenhuth, Clark and McIntyre will take us to 28 contracted players, with only 2 places left to fill (I'm assuming a squad of 30).

Am I missing something ?

The thing that disappoints me the most is that it seems impossible to me to upgrade our squad significantly when we have only two vacancies.

 

[Curly_Tiger]

I respect everyone's view on Benji but with limited funds i can't see we are in a position to sign a big name 6 or 7. In the absence of a signing, assuming we went with a Douehi, Mbye, Talau with Brooks, he's not exactly a bad backup on a pretty low salary, which gives us better spending options for the remaining 3 spots after only $200k for Benji
If we could pick a young half, say like Chanel Harris Tevita from the Warriors, I would feel differently about hanging on to Benji. Maybe I just answered my own question, perhaps we need to take a punt on an up and comer that doesn't cost the world

 

[851]


What a shame they are only paying them $27.50, a $50 Bunnings voucher and a pie and a coke under the Cap a week..

Wow 3 million
I can’t get those players under 3million.
According to the rich list.
Boyd $780
Crichton $750
Radley $500
J Moz $300
Hargreaves $700
$3,030 alone.
Not included is D Tupou and S Verrills and
B Moz.....

Interesting.
If only the NRL could be a bit better at putting 2 and 2 together.

Some of those knobheads' wages would be massively topped up with 3rd party deals yet the NRL released not that long ago that the Roosters TPA's were a measly total of 100k or thereabouts from memory.
Something most definitely smells around the Roosters version of the salary cap.

I remember when Angus Crichton left Souths for Roosters, he was being lauded as a million dollar a year player. Now it's $750k? I'm sure when he leaves it'll be more like $400k, then opening up the million space again for a new recruit.

Souths offered Crichton $800k a year, yet he went to easts

 

[Curly_Tiger]

We then need 4 players with $1.45m, seems tough to go crazy with that.

Curly, I can't comment on your $ calculations, but your assumptions about the number of places left in the squad to fill for 2021 do not appear to be consistent with the WT site.

The WT site includes a list of 24 players currently contracted for 2021. Interestingly, that list does not include Paul Momoroskvi, whom we have all been assuming will return next year. If so then that makes 25 contracted players.

Your assumption that we extend Eisenhuth, Clark and McIntyre will take us to 28 contracted players, with only 2 places left to fill (I'm assuming a squad of 30).

Am I missing something ?

The thing that disappoints me the most is that it seems impossible to me to upgrade our squad significantly when we have only two vacancies.

Thanks Fibro, player numbers are chalenging I agree, almost as much as teh estimated dollars

I have 21 for 2021 being Aloia, Blore, Brooks, Chee Kam, Douehi, Garner, Kepao, BJ Leilua, L Leilua, Liddle, Mbye, Mikaele, Momo, Musgrove, Nofo, Packer, Reynolds, Talau, Twal, Walters, Uto
3 Base Salary guys are I think not definites into 2021 so I don't count them but probably they get replaced by themselves or others - McIntyre (yes), Seyfarth (no), Smith (no)
7 Contracted to end of 2020 - Clark (maybe), Eiso (maybe), Jennings (no), Lawrence (no), Benji (maybe), McQueen (no), Taylor (no)

That adds to 31 less Uto who isn't here yet, gives our current 30

So we have 21 signed, McIntyre likely upgraded takes us to 22

We've then got the maybes (Benji, Clark & Eiso) and any new base salary players (Simpkin, Hoffman, Cini, Madden, Bradley, Lealuga-Puhotau) plus new signings to fill the 8 spots

I'm guessing the differences relate to the treatment of these last 6 young players as some may be signed beyond the current year, pretty certain Simpkin is

 

[851]

I respect everyone's view on Benji but with limited funds i can't see we are in a position to sign a big name 6 or 7. In the absence of a signing, assuming we went with a Douehi, Mbye, Talau with Brooks, he's not exactly a bad backup on a pretty low salary, which gives us better spending options for the remaining 3 spots after only $200k for Benji
If we could pick a young half, say like Chanel Harris Tevita from the Warriors, I would feel differently about hanging on to Benji. Maybe I just answered my own question, perhaps we need to take a punt on an up and comer that doesn't cost the world

We will have our $337k cap fine to spend next year as well, Benji is part of the problem not part of the solution, we have to move on, keep him around the club in some capacity but not as a player

 

[Curly_Tiger]

I respect everyone's view on Benji but with limited funds i can't see we are in a position to sign a big name 6 or 7. In the absence of a signing, assuming we went with a Douehi, Mbye, Talau with Brooks, he's not exactly a bad backup on a pretty low salary, which gives us better spending options for the remaining 3 spots after only $200k for Benji
If we could pick a young half, say like Chanel Harris Tevita from the Warriors, I would feel differently about hanging on to Benji. Maybe I just answered my own question, perhaps we need to take a punt on an up and comer that doesn't cost the world

We will have our $337k cap fine to spend next year as well, Benji is part of the problem not part of the solution, we have to move on, keep him around the club in some capacity but not as a player

Yeah I had factored it in, regarding Benji, he is basically free with the veteran player allowance, pretty sure he's the only option for that

 

[WT2K]

We then need 4 players with $1.45m, seems tough to go crazy with that.

Curly, I can't comment on your $ calculations, but your assumptions about the number of places left in the squad to fill for 2021 do not appear to be consistent with the WT site.

The WT site includes a list of 24 players currently contracted for 2021. Interestingly, that list does not include Paul Momoroskvi, whom we have all been assuming will return next year. If so then that makes 25 contracted players.

Your assumption that we extend Eisenhuth, Clark and McIntyre will take us to 28 contracted players, with only 2 places left to fill (I'm assuming a squad of 30).

Am I missing something ?

The thing that disappoints me the most is that it seems impossible to me to upgrade our squad significantly when we have only two vacancies.

Thanks Fibro, player numbers are chalenging I agree, almost as much as teh estimated dollars

I have 21 for 2021 being Aloia, Blore, Brooks, Chee Kam, Douehi, Garner, Kepao, BJ Leilua, L Leilua, Liddle, Mbye, Mikaele, Momo, Musgrove, Nofo, Packer, Reynolds, Talau, Twal, Walters, Uto
3 Base Salary guys are I think not definites into 2021 so I don't count them but probably they get replaced by themselves or others - McIntyre (yes), Seyfarth (no), Smith (no)
7 Contracted to end of 2020 - Clark (maybe), Eiso (maybe), Jennings (no), Lawrence (no), Benji (maybe), McQueen (no), Taylor (no)

That adds to 31 less Uto who isn't here yet, gives our current 30

So we have 21 signed, McIntyre likely upgraded takes us to 22

We've then got the maybes (Benji, Clark & Eiso) and any new base salary players (Simpkin, Hoffman, Cini, Madden, Bradley, Lealuga-Puhotau) plus new signings to fill the 8 spots

I'm guessing the differences relate to the treatment of these last 6 young players as some may be signed beyond the current year, pretty certain Simpkin is

Rumoured a few times by nrl media since the restart that squad size could be reduced from next season too.

 

[fibrodreaming]

I have 21 for 2021 being Aloia, Blore, Brooks, Chee Kam, Douehi, Garner, Kepao, BJ Leilua, L Leilua, Liddle, Mbye, Mikaele, Momo, Musgrove, Nofo, Packer, Reynolds, Talau, Twal, Walters, Uto

Curly, I think we are in agreement.

The official list on the WT site has 20 of the above 21 - it does not include Momo (or it didn't when I looked last week).

If we add Momo to the 20 on the official list we get 21, which is the same as the list you include above.

The official list also shows 4 development players from this year moving to full contract status next year; namely, Bradley, Cini, Madden and Simpkin.

That takes to 25 as I mentioned in my post.

If we extend Eisenhuth, Clark and McIntyre we will have 28 in the squad and only 2 vacant positions.

If we give Benji another year which you suggest might be worthwhile, that will leave only 1 place to fill for 2021. Not much scope for upgrading the squad unfortunately.

 

[WeststigsRdaBest]

TPJ, JAC and flanno would be my 3 pick ups in the offseason...would add some serious attacking weapons and a good half who can GK

 

[Tim Sheens]


What a shame they are only paying them $27.50, a $50 Bunnings voucher and a pie and a coke under the Cap a week..

Wow 3 million
I can’t get those players under 3million.
According to the rich list.
Boyd $780
Crichton $750
Radley $500
J Moz $300
Hargreaves $700
$3,030 alone.
Not included is D Tupou and S Verrills and
B Moz.....

Interesting.
If only the NRL could be a bit better at putting 2 and 2 together.

Some of those knobheads' wages would be massively topped up with 3rd party deals yet the NRL released not that long ago that the Roosters TPA's were a measly total of 100k or thereabouts from memory.
Something most definitely smells around the Roosters version of the salary cap.

I remember when Angus Crichton left Souths for Roosters, he was being lauded as a million dollar a year player. Now it's $750k? I'm sure when he leaves it'll be more like $400k, then opening up the million space again for a new recruit.

Souths offered Crichton $800k a year, yet he went to easts

Wasn't there reports of a Rose Bay residence at something near half market value involved?

 

[Tim Sheens]

I have 21 for 2021 being Aloia, Blore, Brooks, Chee Kam, Douehi, Garner, Kepao, BJ Leilua, L Leilua, Liddle, Mbye, Mikaele, Momo, Musgrove, Nofo, Packer, Reynolds, Talau, Twal, Walters, Uto

Curly, I think we are in agreement.

The official list on the WT site has 20 of the above 21 - it does not include Momo (or it didn't when I looked last week).

If we add Momo to the 20 on the official list we get 21, which is the same as the list you include above.

The official list also shows 4 development players from this year moving to full contract status next year; namely, Bradley, Cini, Madden and Simpkin.

That takes to 25 as I mentioned in my post.

If we extend Eisenhuth, Clark and McIntyre we will have 28 in the squad and only 2 vacant positions.

If we give Benji another year which you suggest might be worthwhile, that will leave only 1 place to fill for 2021. Not much scope for upgrading the squad unfortunately.

Yeah, he has included this years development players and not those elevated next year, though am unsure as to all of those four being automatic top 30 inclusions.