Slow starts, big finishes

[Yossarian]

Excluding the Cows game.

Opening 20 minutes
v Souths 0-12
v NZ 0-10
v Parra 0-10

(Collectively 0-32)

Final 15 minutes of first half
v Souths 12-0
v NZ 16-0
v Parra 12-0

(Collectively 40-0)

Overall in the final 60 minutes of games we’ve won 70-22 in the last three games.
Looks like that fitness and conditioning work is paying off. Boys looked as fresh as could reasonably be expected in GP yesterday. In past years that seven tackle set would have struggled to get much past halfway.

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

Excluding the Cows game.

Opening 20 minutes
v Souths 0-12
v NZ 0-10
v Parra 0-10

(Collectively 0-32)

Final 15 minutes of first half
v Souths 12-0
v NZ 16-0
v Parra 12-0

(Collectively 40-0)

Overall in the final 60 minutes of games we’ve won 70-22 in the last three games.
Looks like that fitness and conditioning work is paying off. Boys looked as fresh as could reasonably be expected in GP yesterday. In past years that seven tackle set would have struggled to get much past halfway.

Add in our trials too Yoss. We were down in the 1st half against the Rorters & panthers before clawing back by halftime.

 

[Milky]

Yeah although not sustainable against better teams

 

[diedpretty]

If we start like that against a full strength panthers there is no way we are coming back from what they would post in the opening 20 minutes.

 

[gregjm87]

The early scores don't bother me as much as the territory domination. A lot of those early points are from dismantling our rookies on the left. That will happen with 2 rookies playing alongside each other.
The concern is that every team has been able to march down our end early on in those games (and Cows did as well when they actually had possession). For all the praise our forwards are getting (and rightly so for the 20th minute onwards) they are getting beaten in the opening exchanges.
I'd be reluctant to make changes here yet though. Fainu has probably earnt a starting spot but he has also been instrumental in winning back momentum coming off the bench. Will we lose this lift if he was to start? If it's tried and failed does he return to his bench form if reverted back? Whilst sorely tempted I think keep things as is, at least for now.
I think what is needed is simply players to come back and stiffen up the defence. Hold the line early, even if we're losing the battle. Then hopefully keep scores level until our bench gets to work and lift us in front.

 

[Tiger Woods]

Ahh remember the good ol days when we were conceding tries just before & after half time

 

[old_man_tiger]

The early scores don't bother me as much as the territory domination. A lot of those early points are from dismantling our rookies on the left. That will happen with 2 rookies playing alongside each other.
The concern is that every team has been able to march down our end early on in those games (and Cows did as well when they actually had possession). For all the praise our forwards are getting (and rightly so for the 20th minute onwards) they are getting beaten in the opening exchanges.
I'd be reluctant to make changes here yet though. Fainu has probably earnt a starting spot but he has also been instrumental in winning back momentum coming off the bench. Will we lose this lift if he was to start? If it's tried and failed does he return to his bench form if reverted back? Whilst sorely tempted I think keep things as is, at least for now.
I think what is needed is simply players to come back and stiffen up the defence. Hold the line early, even if we're losing the battle. Then hopefully keep scores level until our bench gets to work and lift us in front.

I see 2 problems stemming from us not being as dominant in the middle early in the game when the arm wrestle is even. One is exactly what you point out with yardage. The second is the attack seems clunky, everything is that split second slower off the back of standing starts, slower PTBs and it is harder to compensate for that with our attack structure (especially with AD at 6 looking to run and 2 new centres). I hate that we don't convert our early opportunities. Not a new problem for us, but the consistency in hanging tough and taking control is certainly a new solution!

Like you, I personally wouldn't risk changing the bench just yet, I think TDM looked short a run and is getting there and Pole starting to get his footwork back. Curious to see what Benji thinks if the slow starts persis.

Another interesting point from last week I was waiting for Twal to start dominating and it seemed to really happen when Sione came on. Honestly hadn't noticed that before and could have been a one off. Did make me wonder if we are starting with a different game plan for tactical reasons or it isn't the bench coming on but something else that shifts around the 20 minute mark?

 

[Jolls]

Another interesting point from last week I was waiting for Twal to start dominating and it seemed to really happen when Sione came on. Honestly hadn't noticed that before and could have been a one off. Did make me wonder if we are starting with a different game plan for tactical reasons or it isn't the bench coming on but something else that shifts around the 20 minute mark?

Interesting point. Benji has often been heard saying that we need to earn the right to play expansive footy. Perhaps there is a call from the coach to open the shoulders and let loose - will have to look at it is a little closer as I hadn't noticed it other than in a general sense that we start to pick up around the 20 minute mark. I put it down to being fitness related.

 

[Airport05]

While the way we've been reeling teams in and coming over the top of them has been a refreshing flip of the script for a club that's renowned for dropping its bundle, I'd like to see us try and dent the Knights' confidence by getting off to a good start and taking an early lead. I feel like Newy are a real confidence team at the moment that play an upbeat, points-hungry style. But I'm not sure they've got the experience or resolve in their key attacking positions to pull off a gritty comeback. My feeling is they'll probably chance their arm a bit too much and make errors in the course of chasing points. Could be wrong but that's how I'm seeing it. Get off to a strong start and we could beat them comfortably. Let them get out to a lead and we might have a tough time reeling them in.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Interesting point. Benji has often been heard saying that we need to earn the right to play expansive footy. Perhaps there is a call from the coach to open the shoulders and let loose - will have to look at it is a little closer as I hadn't noticed it other than in a general sense that we start to pick up around the 20 minute mark. I put it down to being fitness related.

Honestly only noticed because in the first 20 I thought we needed another Twal flick oass to crack them haha

I could be way off mark

 

[gregjm87]

I see 2 problems stemming from us not being as dominant in the middle early in the game when the arm wrestle is even. One is exactly what you point out with yardage. The second is the attack seems clunky, everything is that split second slower off the back of standing starts, slower PTBs and it is harder to compensate for that with our attack structure (especially with AD at 6 looking to run and 2 new centres). I hate that we don't convert our early opportunities. Not a new problem for us, but the consistency in hanging tough and taking control is certainly a new solution!

Like you, I personally wouldn't risk changing the bench just yet, I think TDM looked short a run and is getting there and Pole starting to get his footwork back. Curious to see what Benji thinks if the slow starts persis.

Another interesting point from last week I was waiting for Twal to start dominating and it seemed to really happen when Sione came on. Honestly hadn't noticed that before and could have been a one off. Did make me wonder if we are starting with a different game plan for tactical reasons or it isn't the bench coming on but something else that shifts around the 20 minute mark?

I don't believe it is play style issue but simply our bench is good. I've been pretty critical of our forwards in the past but they have greatly exceeded my expectations this year.
Looking around the comp and doubly so who we've played I think just about every clubs starting middles are as good or better than ours (on a per minute output, not considering the motor of Twal and May to continue to perform in big minutes). There however seems to be a dearth of middle depth competition wide so I think bench far exceeds most clubs and as games progress the motor of our starters exceeds others as well. So our bench out performs others and as the game progresses our starters begin to get it over the opposition starters that beat them early.
Unfortunately I don't think there is any easy fix. We simply need greater defensive resolve early which as I said earlier I think should be there as players return to the backline.

 

[Blooey]

I swear this is exactly what our playstyle was around 2008-2012ish when Sheens was coach.
I remember we use to always be down and then we'd score 3-4 tries in the last 15minutes.
Maybe Benji is using the Sheens playbook?

 

[Tiger_claws]

We warmed up for so long on Monday I was really worried about being fatigued during the game. Probably 20 minutes longer than Parra.

 

[old_man_tiger]

I don't believe it is play style issue but simply our bench is good. I've been pretty critical of our forwards in the past but they have greatly exceeded my expectations this year.
Looking around the comp and doubly so who we've played I think just about every clubs starting middles are as good or better than ours (on a per minute output, not considering the motor of Twal and May to continue to perform in big minutes). There however seems to be a dearth of middle depth competition wide so I think bench far exceeds most clubs and as games progress the motor of our starters exceeds others as well. So our bench out performs others and as the game progresses our starters begin to get it over the opposition starters that beat them early.
Unfortunately I don't think there is any easy fix. We simply need greater defensive resolve early which as I said earlier I think should be there as players return to the backline.

Its very possible that I'm looking too much into it, but thats what footy forums on work days were invented for!

Just great to see so many theories about why we are competing instead of why we are awful.