StatsInsider article on Wests Tigers

[diedpretty]

https://www.statsinsider.com.au/blog/nrl/toothless-tigers-where-has-it-all-gone-wrong-for-wests

Always good analysis by these guys

I quite enjoyed that read. Absolutely spot on appraisal of where we are currently at. Looking forward to seeing Joe O play lock to see if that improves our lack of ball playing in the forwards.

Yea hope it helps but as the article points out his ball playing is a step up on Twal but still way below the norm these days. I don't understand why Maguire when he just keeps shuffling the deck chairs around doesn't give Mbye a go at lock. We are gone for the season anyway so giving Mbye a go there is a no brainer to me.

 

[innsaneink]

Great interesting article.... It's what we've all been seeing, good to read this from someone it seems knows what they're talking about..

We see this every week... We watch Penrith melb Roosters on thur and fri and then we watch us.... It's so evident but for me hard to put into words here but that article relays my frustrations with us so much this year
I've never seen us worse.... The lack of attitude desire and effort is unbelievable it's like most (not all) of them don't give a rats

 

[Telltails]

I just think defensive structures in the new game go out the window due to fatigue. And I see it in all games with most teams if their is a period when one team dominates possession.
Quality players in good teams take advantage of it, and if teams like ours dont convert our chances we are cooked.
I expect the blowout scores to get worse as the season progresses and teams are out of contention.

 

[ElleryHanley]

GREAT article...sums up all the things we have been saying.

Forwards are not getting meters...no variety in the pack...and the halves can't even see opportunities like Jake Granville stuck in the centers and go to his side. Low IQ footy and zero pack variety.

We either have a really bad team...

A really low IQ team...

Or a really bad coach...

Hard to tell at this stage.

Tuki and Blore may well change the entire pack and fix those problems...Madden hopefully would add some actual half back skills...let's see what happens, but that article clearly shows what is going wrong.

 

[Barnsta B]

Our forwards need to hit the ball at steam, the run off the back fence. Most of the time they are set shallow and have no pace up by the time the defence gets them making it easier for the defence. Tuki runs hard and aint afraid of contact as also some of the other boys in KOE. If the forwards just run hard instead of (as most people on here say) just plodder the team can get some momentum.

 

[upthetigers]

Fair assessment. This part is the most telling of our problems for mine

No team averages more tackles inside the opposition 20-metre line per game, but only the Bulldogs score fewer points per tackle inside the opposition 20 than the Tigers' 0.51.

If we can actually use the ball when we have it in good field position early in games we may start putting teams under pressure

Letting go of Benji exposed our attacking deficiencies.

 

[Lauren]

Had to go and search for it and found it, but there was some discussion on the forum [re😱ur stats](https://weststigersforum.com/topic/25895/signing-suggestions-rumours/77207?page=5148) after the Knights game, in which quite a few forumers expressed a lot concern with our forwards. (You may need to go back a few pages to where it starts, if interested in looking back at all the chatter)

I'm an enthusiast for NRL data and analytics, as it actually allows me to have a better understanding of what a lot of you are pointing out. I always appreciate any related content (and effort) presented by some of you guys.
I remember reading and sharing this guys stuff [before](https://rugbyleaguewriters.com/nrl-2021/preseason-nrl-notepad-leilua-brothers-linking-up/) on the forum. It was specifically about the Leilua brothers but he also made an ominous prediction for us, if we didn't improve on our defensive issues:

*Wests finished up as one of the worst defensive teams in the NRL conceding 25.3 points per game last season. It became the main cause of their finals drought being extended for yet another year. While the Leuliua brothers can excite in attack and the Tigers possess point-scoring talent across the park, cutting down on the points they let through will determine whether or not the drought ends in 2021.*

***How the Leilua brothers defend on their side of the field along with, most likely, Luke Brooks, will be a major focus throughout the early rounds of the upcoming season.***

So I agree with everyone, in that it's a greatly constructed and researched article which tells the more accurate story. I thoroughly enjoy his work and have read a few WT related blogs, in which they are always very informative and well written.

 

[izotope]

I told you’s all Tamou was a plodder

You're bound to get a plodder call right at some point when you call them all plodders.

He didn't call MCK a plodder, might singlehandedly be our worst player in the Top 30

 

[the_third]

I told you’s all Tamou was a plodder

You're bound to get a plodder call right at some point when you call them all plodders.

He didn't call MCK a plodder, might singlehandedly be our worst player in the Top 30

its a close call between him and the decoy king

 

[BalmainJnr]

Great article with some terrific insights.
Moving Joffa to lock can only be a good thing. I recall reading that the WT bough him believing his best efforts were in the middle and his output last season was severely diminished by the Broncos using him wrongly on the edge.
Then we proceeded to put him on the edge the past few weeks.
Absolutely agree with us having too many of the same type of middle forwards. There’s not much variation from them and the one out hit ups are more predictable than in junior football.
Tamou’s performance is worrying. The majority of us feared signing another ageing prop while the WT pointed out his consistent metres, particularly after contact as well as his leadership as reasons for his purchase. His impact in the metres department has fallen off a cliff since he signed with us and he has had his share of poor defensive lapses.
Our play from the centres has been less than glorious to start the year and I am convinced part of this is that our halves have no idea how to effectively involve the centre’s in the game through giving them opportunities with the ball in areas that maximise their skill sets.
Our defence, as we know, is historically bad. Our line speed is shameful and our capacity to defend passively on our heels to the point of shuffling backwards and turning our hips to slide as soon as the opposition bring the ball to the advantage line is tiresome.
I won’t even start on how upset I get watching our middle forwards shirking their responsibility to get in front and use their shoulders - the consistent arm grabbing reeks of a lack of desire and intent.
Unforced errors is another part to our game we seem incapable of tidying up.
We are a side that loves to beat ourselves through errors and while it’s not included in the article I wouldn’t mind betting that we get punished on the scoreboard more than most for our errors.

 

[izotope]

I told you’s all Tamou was a plodder

You're bound to get a plodder call right at some point when you call them all plodders.

He didn't call MCK a plodder, might singlehandedly be our worst player in the Top 30


its a close call between him and the decoy king

Good call forgotten but not gone

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

I told you’s all Tamou was a plodder

You're bound to get a plodder call right at some point when you call them all plodders.

He didn't call MCK a plodder, might singlehandedly be our worst player in the Top 30

Packer is offended and says hi:blush:

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Our forwards need to hit the ball at steam, the run off the back fence. Most of the time they are set shallow and have no pace up by the time the defence gets them making it easier for the defence. Tuki runs hard and aint afraid of contact as also some of the other boys in KOE. If the forwards just run hard instead of (as most people on here say) just plodder the team can get some momentum.

There are a number of issues in the attack: receiving the ball flatfooted, no post contact meters, slow play the ball, no offloads, no several players in motion, easily controlled by the opposition, no aggression accept L Leilua, and Utoikemanu - overall: inadequate run meters.

 

[tigger19]

Also most games so far the set restarts given to the opposition early on puts teams in good position to score points against. That momentum and combined with the fatigue of long periods of defence is very hard to come back from

 

[Guest]

GREAT article...sums up all the things we have been saying.

Forwards are not getting meters...no variety in the pack...and the halves can't even see opportunities like Jake Granville stuck in the centers and go to his side. Low IQ footy and zero pack variety.

We either have a really bad team...

A really low IQ team...

Or a really bad coach...

Hard to tell at this stage.

Tuki and Blore may well change the entire pack and fix those problems...Madden hopefully would add some actual half back skills...let's see what happens, but that article clearly shows what is going wrong.

I'm going to say low IQ team, comes back to the halves directing the team around the park. One of our halves is mute come kick off...

 

[innsaneink]

I don't think in my 17 years or whatever it is on these forums in all their versions... I don't think I've ever seen so many in agreeance and seeing the same thing, and I don't think it's ever been more concerning the situation we're in currently

 

[tigerballs]

GREAT article...sums up all the things we have been saying.

Forwards are not getting meters...no variety in the pack...and the halves can't even see opportunities like Jake Granville stuck in the centers and go to his side. Low IQ footy and zero pack variety.

We either have a really bad team...

A really low IQ team...

Or a really bad coach...

Hard to tell at this stage.

Tuki and Blore may well change the entire pack and fix those problems...Madden hopefully would add some actual half back skills...let's see what happens, but that article clearly shows what is going wrong.

I'm going to say low IQ team, comes back to the halves directing the team around the park. One of our halves is mute come kick off...

Rugby league is a simple game. If you dissect every game this season into quarters, you’ll have an understanding of what separates the good from the bad. Here’s the truth..
The best teams have the best halves. Simple as that. You can quote that article re offloads etc but the primary influence is possession. Repeat sets ( momentum ) is almost the sole determining factor in winning games. Field position has an influence, but that seems to be more a product of possession, stats wise. The reason WT are down the scale in offloads is due to one factor and that is time with quality possession. Defences only ever have to work against us for six tackles. When that goes up to eighteen tackles, we are as effective with the ball as most other side. Unfortunately, this happens all too infrequently.
We were the better side against Souths because we were effective, somehow, in keeping the ball. Nearly all first grade footballers know how to play the game and when they have enough ball, they can compete. We looked good against Manly until they gained control of possession. It’s simply a game of time in possession, the most important factor being continual time in possession.
The other major factor is having at least ONE player who becomes the focal point of opposition defences. Plays are constructed around the influence of that player, whether that player is in possession or is a threat of taking possession, meaning that player can draw attention away from the actual threat. Daine Laurie is meant to be that for WT but has so far been insignificant. Basically, WT have not had the opportunity of multiple set possession often enough to either score points or defend in a physically sustainable manner.
Possession is key. That’s it. Constant pressure. We don’t have it.
You can refine this down to statistics and who isn’t doing what at any particular time, but it’s nothing more or less than quality time with the footy.

 

[hodgo]

Best article I have read for a while. Again highlights why it's hard to have a small lock for us as our middles don't get on the front foot enough to warrant a lock that wont

 

[Zach]

Anyway someone can send this article to Pascoe so he can forward it on to Madge? Because he/everyone at the club needs to read it.....

 

[mike]

Anyway someone can send this article to Pascoe so he can forward it on to Madge? Because he/everyone at the club needs to read it.....

You don’t think Madge would know already?