Taking a wrecking ball to the club! (Recent Media Reports)

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jirskyr said:
The club would be standing on the current premises if the Keneally Govt had not cancelled the metro and then successive Labor councils blocked attempts at redevelopment.

Cronulla Leagues had a similar experience, almost out of cash waiting for their development to go through, but for their luck it was approved and they were able to demolish, build and sell.

Any business that has to sit on their hands in anticipation of demolition in a Government mass infrastructure will haemorrhage money without support and guarantees of timelines. Just ask the businesses around Rozelle, not just Balmain Leagues, ask the businesses on George St and up through Strawberry Hills holding on for the Light Rail to be completed.
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The Ole there are reasons (Not excuses)
But the Balmain Leagues Club was going broke well before that....
I remember them blaming a change in the smoking laws (Came in around the end of 2005 from memory)
and the new Casino at the time...

Going to that venue plenty in the years before they went under, They were well and truly dying a slow death before all the Government stuff...
And that's down to Management, Incompetence and Complacency.
They've been bailed out again and again since and still can't make anything of it....

I'm certain saw some memorabilia from the Walls of one of the Clubs for sale on Marketplace a while back? Sad - But it is what it is...
 
batboy said:
You're kidding right?
They are where they are from years of ineptitude - beyond measure....

There's one reason they sold - Because they had to!!
With some more ineptitude, They sold it to the wrong bloke and got cornholed again....
and again, and again - And now they're all but a memory...

How does a Leagues Club in that location, With that History - Ever go bust?
Beyond shocking....
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I’m not debating that … I’m saying they had the fallback of wests in the merger as a safety net . I think they would have driven themselves into oblivion . Read the rest of what I said . You’re just jumping at the first line . They would have been forced to move becauee of what you said . Their ineptitude.
The only thing I will say is if they did miraculously get through to the last 2 paytv deals , even the dumbest human alive couldn’t run a club into the ground because of how much the tv money pretty much bankrolls every club .
Look at the HBG board .
 
Lestronge said:
I’m not debating that … I’m saying they had the fallback of wests in the merger as a safety net . I think they would have driven themselves into oblivion . Read the rest of what I said . You’re just jumping at the first line . They would have been forced to move becauee of what you said . Their ineptitude.
The only thing I will say is if they did miraculously get through to the last 2 paytv deals , even the dumbest human alive couldn’t run a club into the ground because of how much the tv money pretty much bankrolls every club .
Look at the HBG board .
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We're talking about the Leagues Club? TV Deals don't save leagues Clubs.

They've given themselves plenty of Excuses,
They were 25 mill in the red when they 'Gave' away their major (Only real) asset.
Even if they were losing 2 mill a year, That's more than a decade of going 2 mill a year Backwards.

Blaming the Indoor Smoking Laws - HAHA!!
I was working in and around a dozen venues that were much less of a concern Balmain Leagues Clubs that had outdoor Smoking / Gaming areas set up before the Law even came into effect.
And someone mentioned 'Sitting on their Hands' 😂😂😂

No amount of Footy Money or on field results was saving that Leagues Club,
They were shot before we merged, Blew the Merge money with Reckless abandon and spent the next decade getting themselves 25 mill in debt....

The further these people are removed from the running of the Wests Tigers - the safer we'll all be.
 
batboy said:
We're talking about the Leagues Club? TV Deals don't save leagues Clubs.

They've given themselves plenty of Excuses,
They were 25 mill in the red when they 'Gave' away their major (Only real) asset.
Even if they were losing 2 mill a year, That's more than a decade of going 2 mill a year Backwards.

Blaming the Indoor Smoking Laws - HAHA!!
I was working in and around a dozen venues that were much less of a concern Balmain Leagues Clubs that had outdoor Smoking / Gaming areas set up before the Law even came into effect.
And someone mentioned 'Sitting on their Hands' 😂😂😂

No amount of Footy Money or on field results was saving that Leagues Club,
They were shot before we merged, Blew the Merge money with Reckless abandon and spent the next decade getting themselves 25 mill in debt....

The further these people are removed from the running of the Wests Tigers - the safer we'll all be.
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No you’re confused mate . I was talking about the hypothetical situation where if Balmain managed to stand alone into the nrl era . They would have had to keep the leagues club open to bankroll the team , and when that went to shit , the team would have been screwed and told to move . I think that would have been the most logical outcome in this hypothetical ,to be honest , because of the administrators we had at the club at the time . If Neil Whittaker never went to the ARL I think they may have stood a chance.
We would be supporting the Easts Tigers . Or Central coast tigers .
My point in all this hypotheticals is that somehow we stumbled across what looks to have been the best outcome . Despite what a few dinosaurs say and try to destabilise.
Outside of the governance issues , I’m proud to be a wests tiger . And the tough speech I have about removing all references to the foundations clubs in the naming of teams is because I have bought into the wests tigers identity , and think the foundation clubs , and the people who run it , never made it past y2k in the way they think about thier football team .
 
Lestronge said:
No you’re confused mate . I was talking about the hypothetical situation where if Balmain managed to stand alone into the nrl era . They would have had to keep the leagues club open to bankroll the team , and when that went to shit , the team would have been screwed and told to move . I think that would have been the most logical outcome in this hypothetical ,to be honest , because of the administrators we had at the club at the time . If Neil Whittaker never went to the ARL I think they may have stood a chance.
We would be supporting the Easts Tigers . Or Central coast tigers .
My point in all this hypotheticals is that somehow we stumbled across what looks to have been the best outcome . Despite what a few dinosaurs say and try to destabilise.
Outside of the governance issues , I’m proud to be a wests tiger . And the tough speech I have about removing all references to the foundations clubs in the naming of teams is because I have bought into the wests tigers identity , and think the foundation clubs , and the people who run it , never made it past y2k in the way they think about thier football team .
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I'm not confused at all, Despite your best efforts (You replied to me)
Man, I very rarely read your ramblings - Unfortunately, I'm todays victim.
Hypotheticals? That you've invented - The cart doesn't go before the horse....
 
batboy said:
I think with (probably with the benefit of hindsight)
that was just a convenient diversion from where it was all really at....
I've seen nothing but extreme incompetence from them since.

Even those last few days at the Club, You could see how it had gotten to where it was.
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Well, they told them to buy all the surrounding properties and then told them they were reclaiming all the land including the club and it was gone… can’t say that helped.
 
jirskyr said:
I can appreciate you feel like you lost something vital when the merger occurred, and you seem to be hanging it almost entirely on the Tiger branding. As I said to Magpies Forever, I wonder if you would have felt better if we were the Balmain Magpies or some such.

There was no doubt back in 1999 that the Tiger logo was considered valuable, not even from a bias perspective but simply from marketing. That's what Parramatta wanted from a merger with Balmain, they wanted more access to the junior base and the Tiger logo, as in Parramatta Tigers. Dominated almost entirely by Parramatta but retaining the Tiger logo.

And that's where we stand now! Wests Tigers, dominated politically and financially by Wests, but retaining the Tiger name for marketing and historical purposes. Perhaps even out of respect to the now deceased Balmain club.

What I think you fail to understand is what the Balmain side of the merger lost, where you talk about "soul", but the Magpies still exist and still call the shots, whereas Balmain is falling further and further back into history like Newtown (who at least still have their reserve grade side), the Bears etc.

I made the point that personally I loved the old Balmain logo from the 80s and that will never come back, so despite us being Tigers, I will never relate with the Wests Tiger logo in the same fundamental tribal way I identified with the Balmain logo. There is also the childhood association, via my Dad and his dad, and of the old family home in Leichhardt, sold a few decades ago, where we used to walk down as a family to the home matches. That is tied to old Balmain more than Wests, and we only play 3-4 times at Leichhardt anyway.

Obviously that Balmain stuff is mostly gone now, but I would still consider that the "soul" that Balmain gave up, just as much as you might refer to what the Magpies gave up. I would submit that you perhaps fail to appreciate what Balmain fans also gave up in 1999, and perhaps even more now considering that, despite the club logo, Wests run the show and Balmain are kept on board as a mark of respect, but with next to no power or money. Balmain literally doesn't exist above juniors and the Balmain Leagues Club similarly is just a hole in the ground, remaining assets bought out by Wests.

So the only option is to find a new soul - that's what I did in 2000. It's not the same as my old Balmain soul but it's a new thing, and I always had respect for Western Suburbs the club, so I made my peace with the decisions made by the two clubs, and moved forward. I've now been a Wests Tigers man for longer than I was Balmain.
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Good points.

Can't speak for any specific fan but I think the JV was set up very very well really.

But whist I can't speak for any specific fan the real issue for many Wests Magpies originals who haven't embraced the WT fully goes back to the original management of the club..........and their lack of effort in engaging with Magpies fans better as well as the people of Campbelltown and especially the media...........who especially in the early days but even recently promoted the club as perhaps really more a Balmain club.........the average fan below the most committed ones often thought of the WT as a re badged Balmain. Of course the club done nothing to foster this illusion but often Benny and others gave tacit approval by not correcting it.............the club getting called Balmain (black &gold) during games was very common and turned off alot of original Magpies fans away.

This was a net loss really, fans lost ,dormant as well as Campbelltown not engaged.

That is the whole issue really.......not a call to a return of the magpies.

It was poor business and a lack of engagement with the clubs whole potential.

As for reserve grade, your right long term they must be WT. I think the rationale here was that since they were totally funded by Wests/HBG they may as well choose the name, especially for a time to promote the Wests brand awareness within the WT. I think that's been pretty much achieved now so it's probably time to revert to a WestsTigers reserve grade.
 
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Lestronge said:
Magpies1964
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Don't know for sure, only from his posts but believe it was Magpies 1963, and his only other account going back perhaps 5 years. One can see from his engagement style not an experienced poster whose posts may be taken out if context.

What was your previous username?

And why would you need to change or have other accounts?
 
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diedpretty said:
There is the argument that they have expanded the business. They have added new clubs, increased revenue. They have increased their property holdings outside of the clubs.. Admittedly it's all been achieved on the back of pokies and the takeover of Balmain remaining assets. But that's business. This is only HBG - nothing to do with WT.
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WA have managed to grow assets and revenues many fold over the last 30 years so this is true....while at the same time other clubs apart from Balmain......clubs like, Penrith, Cronulla and others ran into difficulties with risk management, debts and an inability to adapt to changing demographics as well as the introduction of the casino, the GFC and especially Covid.

WA stripped out nearly half the pokies for Covid protocols and despite this had a record breaking year last year.

Whatever some may think of their management it's working for the group.
 
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Magpie_Magic said:
Don't know for sure, only from his post but believe it was Magpies 1963, and his only other account going back perhaps 5 years. One can see from his engagement style not an experienced poster whose posts may be taken out if context.

What was your previous username?

And why would you need to change or have other accounts?
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I deleted my account . I hated the vibe at the time , and whilst I agreed with the people who had issues with a certain mod , because I did as well , the way in which the mob mentality went after good people , pissed me off . Then it continued for a few more weeks , and they revelled in it as well. I just hated the vibe , so I jumped ship.
The vibe changed to something better than both previous iterations ,IMHO, so I came back . And hteched things out privately with certain people that’s none of your business.
And then because this was my profile in the other site , I kept the same one , so I was obviously the same person across two sites ,
So settle down princess ! There’s nothing nefarious going on. And my old profile name is variation of this one. .
You happy now ? oh maybe you’ll make some oil joke , that took me 3 times and someone to privately explain it , because I had no idea what you were talking about …
You guys have a real privacy issue . You don’t mind a cheeky dox , or revealing people private details / health issues etc. Shows who you are really . Classless!
By the way , That shit ended 2 days ago and you’re still stewing . I live rent free in your head huh ? Get over it …
 
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batboy said:
The Ole there are reasons (Not excuses)
But the Balmain Leagues Club was going broke well before that....
I remember them blaming a change in the smoking laws (Came in around the end of 2005 from memory)
and the new Casino at the time...

Going to that venue plenty in the years before they went under, They were well and truly dying a slow death before all the Government stuff...
And that's down to Management, Incompetence and Complacency.
They've been bailed out again and again since and still can't make anything of it....

I'm certain saw some memorabilia from the Walls of one of the Clubs for sale on Marketplace a while back? Sad - But it is what it is...
Click to expand...
Many were struggling at that time because the pokie tax was damaging. And yes Inner West venues particularly impacted by the "new" casino.

So all the clubs were attempting to pivot to other revenue streams - refurbish, sports bars with betting, more restaurants etc. But you can't do that unless you can renovate the premises.
 
jirskyr said:
Many were struggling at that time because the pokie tax was damaging. And yes Inner West venues particularly impacted by the "new" casino.

So all the clubs were attempting to pivot to other revenue streams - refurbish, sports bars with betting, more restaurants etc. But you can't do that unless you can renovate the premises.
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Agree…

Reckon it’s hard to renovate and re-structure when you’re already 25 mill in the hole.
 
Magpie_Magic said:
Good points.

Can't speak for any specific fan but I think the JV was set up very very well really.

But whist I can't speak for any specific fan the real issue for many Wests Magpies originals who haven't embraced the WT fully goes back to the original management of the club..........and their lack of effort in engaging with Magpies fans better as well as the people of Campbelltown and especially the media...........who especially in the early days but even recently promoted the club as perhaps really more a Balmain club.........the average fan below the most committed ones often thought of the WT as a re badged Balmain. Of course the club done nothing to foster this illusion but often Benny and others gave tacit approval by not correcting it.............the club getting called Balmain (black &gold) during games was very common and turned off alot of original Magpies fans away.

This was a net loss really, fans lost ,dormant as well as Campbelltown not engaged.

That is the whole issue really.......not a call to a return of the magpies.

It was poor business and a lack of engagement with the clubs whole potential.

As for reserve grade, your right long term they must be WT. I think the rationale here was that since they were totally funded by Wests/HBG they may as well choose the name, especially for a time to promote the Wests brand awareness within the WT. I think that's been pretty much achieved now so it's probably time to revert to a WestsTigers reserve grade.
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Re your last paragraph. The reason the reserve side is Wests magpies is because it was part of the merger agreement that both foundation clubs would keep their identity in the competition immediately below NRL. Balmain/Ryde Eastwood existed in that comp as well until the money ran out. I have no qualms with the reserve side being named WT. However we are talking about HBG making that call and as we have seen with them still using such an outdated system of debentures they are pretty stubborn when it comes to change.
 
diedpretty said:
Re your last paragraph. The reason the reserve side is Wests magpies is because it was part of the merger agreement that both foundation clubs would keep their identity in the competition immediately below NRL. Balmain/Ryde Eastwood existed in that comp as well until the money ran out. I have no qualms with the reserve side being named WT. However we are talking about HBG making that call and as we have seen with them still using such an outdated system of debentures they are pretty stubborn when it comes to change.
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Both your posts are very good and reminded me of some stuff that I've forgotten. I remember watching games where Roach and other commentators who occasionally refer to the team as Balmain and it used to annoy me too. In the early years Balmain were definitely the dominant partner in the JV until financial woes beset them.
But it is time to drop the parochiality. We do need to be one club. I'd be happy to see WT as the name of the three top teams down to Flegg and then let Wests and Balmain run their own junior competitions and field their own teams in junior reps.
 
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