gallagher
Well-known member
What would the benefit be to Wests to own a team in perth?
Wouldn't they just sell their license?
Wouldn't they just sell their license?
Team relocate
- Thread starter galea_11
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So I guess the plan now is to stay Sydney 10yr rebuild go through 3 coaches
We will be stuffed if. Parramatta and Penrith ever merge in future remember its business now They would be a super club they have western Sydney covered. Phil Gould would hate that much influence in the nrl :wink🙂
We will be stuffed if. Parramatta and Penrith ever merge in future remember its business now They would be a super club they have western Sydney covered. Phil Gould would hate that much influence in the nrl :wink🙂
diedpretty
Well-known member
@gallagher said:
There is no benefit - can they sell the licence? I have no idea - would depend what the whole deal was with paying Balmains debt.
gallagher
Well-known member
@diedpretty said:
So do wests, Balmain or Wests tigers owe the nrl anything? I got lost.
If nothing is owed to the nrl i couldn't see them not allowing wests to sell the license. As long as it was to an expansion area.
@gallagher said:
Like diedpretty, I can't see Ashfield downpaying the debt if they were only going to get the licence revoked. There would have been assurances or guarantees that they won't be on the block. The NRL would be stupid to relocate one of the largest clubs in Sydney. It would be like moving Canterbury, Souths or Parramatta.
Penrith are another place that is considered undesirable compared to the inner west, eastern suburbs, Cronulla or northern beaches, didn't stop them attracting decent players.
goldcoast_tiger
New member
@diedpretty said:
There's no benefit in being cut from the Comp either.
We won't relocate ourselves anyway , because of the self interest of people stopping it .
But I wouldn't be surprised , if there isnt at least an attempt of relocating the club somewhere in the not too distant future
I just think that there is only a need for two at a max three clubs in the west
The league needs a top line club in the west to combat soccer and The AFL, and the club with the lowest baseline to try to build from is definetly us.
It's only one opinion
I know this has probably been said many a time on this forum but I'm not on here often so…..
If i was in charge of the NRL id relocate them to Perth.... As a business decision it makes perfect sense. As a fan i don't want to see it but its the only way for the NRL to move forward on a National basis while keeping the competition close.
1) The merger hasn't worked. Balmain and Wests are still divided. There is a small generation of fans that have grown up with the Wests Tigers and accept them as the West Tigers. This group of fans is extremely minor in comparison to EVERY other Sydney club. You are upsetting the least amount of supporters relocating this team. And as a Balmain fan the fact that I'm watching and supporting a merged team that plays out of multiple locations - If they were relocated to Perth and played every 2nd game "away" and the majority of these "away" games were in Sydney it wouldn't bother me.
2) The Nrl needs that Perth time slot
3) Western Sydney (and Sydney) has too many teams as is. For the competition to expand and at the same time stay competitive a Sydney team needs to be relocated (Perth) and then another 2 teams brought in. There is not enough talent for 3 new teams.
4) The crowds are verging on pathetic - and for the vast majority of this merger have been.
5) The club has been run like a brothel ever since its inception (This has shown in every aspect top down from treatment of coaches to player retention/signing.
6) The club name and jersey pretty much stays the same as "Wests" fit Perth nicely.
7) The Tigers would need to make sure that Financially they are VERY well looked after. This is where the NRL need to take note from the AFL. This team would need to be bank rolled for a decade. Minimum.
The only disadvantages i can see are
1) Relocation often doesn't work. But as far as relocations go i think this would have the most success out of any. Purely by namesake... Lame i know - But having Wests in the name, as small as it seems, makes a large marketing difference. (not to me - but some it would)
2) Campbeltown Juniors. Split them between Penrith, Parramatta, Bulldogs, and St George.
3) Balmain juniors - Who cares. These days they don't have many and in a few years time even less. Balmain is nothing but wankers these days and wankers don't play league. The boys from Holy Cross are just as close to parramatta as they are Balmain. Its not a point of concern in comparison to the other items.
In regards to point 3 (advantages) above i think Tigers in Perth to fill that crucial TV timeslot and a 2nd team in NZ as the 1st move. And the goal should be (a few years later) to bring the Queensland PNG team through to the NRL. If you've been to PNG you'd realise this is a no brainer. Yes they are poor etc etc but believe me - All they'd need is one of the many VERY wealthy Gold Mines to jump on board and they'd be more than fine. And it would guarantee the NRL close to a million extra eyeballs watching every game, and the junior influx would leave the Pacific Islands for dead.
Its amazing how badly run this competition has been run over the last 2 decades. Absolutely no foresight. The way the NRL treats the International game proves this. The shortsightedness of how they view "State of Origin" in comparison to "International" football proves this. Every administrator is in it for short term gain.
As a fan, if the relocation happened - Id personally like to see both Balmain and Wests represented separately in the State Cup again. Along with Fiji, Samoa, & Tonga. As is I'm envious of Souths, Newtown & the Bears. Kills me that Souths stood strong and sat a year out of the comp because they were passionate about their team - While Balmain and Wests showed no passion and merged in a heart beat. And look what happened over the next decade.
And please - No deluded comments about the "Wanderers" or the "Giants". Facts show (i.e. TV viewership and crowd numbers), as much as Phil Rothfield likes to deny - That both clubs are a non event in Western Sydney. Especially the Giants. Soccer has, and always will have - plenty of juniors. Its forever been the "sleeping giant". And if anything has gone backwards since the inception of the A League - Which has done nothing but weaken our National team. The Swans have been "somewhat" of a success. Yes they get the occasional 40k crowd but then they struggle to get over 50k people from Sydney watching on TV. And this is after 30 years of the AFL pumping them up in every way possible.
If popularity of a sport in Sydney was measured by a "sound meter" then yes we would be in trouble - And Rothfield would be correct in his assertion that the "Wanderers" are the biggest team in Sydney (holy f.u.c.k - How deluded is that statement!) but as is they are nothing more than a team that averages 14k and are watched, in average, by a ridiculously small amount of people on TV (lucky to get 80k) and that all important Sydney Derby against Sydney FC rated 188k and 122k viewers. Compare that to ANY NRL game and you'll see that the "Sleeping Giant" is still fast asleep.' Some State Cup games and under 20s games outrage this "Derby".
As for the numbers for the Swans v the Giants - I won't even bother.
If i was in charge of the NRL id relocate them to Perth.... As a business decision it makes perfect sense. As a fan i don't want to see it but its the only way for the NRL to move forward on a National basis while keeping the competition close.
1) The merger hasn't worked. Balmain and Wests are still divided. There is a small generation of fans that have grown up with the Wests Tigers and accept them as the West Tigers. This group of fans is extremely minor in comparison to EVERY other Sydney club. You are upsetting the least amount of supporters relocating this team. And as a Balmain fan the fact that I'm watching and supporting a merged team that plays out of multiple locations - If they were relocated to Perth and played every 2nd game "away" and the majority of these "away" games were in Sydney it wouldn't bother me.
2) The Nrl needs that Perth time slot
3) Western Sydney (and Sydney) has too many teams as is. For the competition to expand and at the same time stay competitive a Sydney team needs to be relocated (Perth) and then another 2 teams brought in. There is not enough talent for 3 new teams.
4) The crowds are verging on pathetic - and for the vast majority of this merger have been.
5) The club has been run like a brothel ever since its inception (This has shown in every aspect top down from treatment of coaches to player retention/signing.
6) The club name and jersey pretty much stays the same as "Wests" fit Perth nicely.
7) The Tigers would need to make sure that Financially they are VERY well looked after. This is where the NRL need to take note from the AFL. This team would need to be bank rolled for a decade. Minimum.
The only disadvantages i can see are
1) Relocation often doesn't work. But as far as relocations go i think this would have the most success out of any. Purely by namesake... Lame i know - But having Wests in the name, as small as it seems, makes a large marketing difference. (not to me - but some it would)
2) Campbeltown Juniors. Split them between Penrith, Parramatta, Bulldogs, and St George.
3) Balmain juniors - Who cares. These days they don't have many and in a few years time even less. Balmain is nothing but wankers these days and wankers don't play league. The boys from Holy Cross are just as close to parramatta as they are Balmain. Its not a point of concern in comparison to the other items.
In regards to point 3 (advantages) above i think Tigers in Perth to fill that crucial TV timeslot and a 2nd team in NZ as the 1st move. And the goal should be (a few years later) to bring the Queensland PNG team through to the NRL. If you've been to PNG you'd realise this is a no brainer. Yes they are poor etc etc but believe me - All they'd need is one of the many VERY wealthy Gold Mines to jump on board and they'd be more than fine. And it would guarantee the NRL close to a million extra eyeballs watching every game, and the junior influx would leave the Pacific Islands for dead.
Its amazing how badly run this competition has been run over the last 2 decades. Absolutely no foresight. The way the NRL treats the International game proves this. The shortsightedness of how they view "State of Origin" in comparison to "International" football proves this. Every administrator is in it for short term gain.
As a fan, if the relocation happened - Id personally like to see both Balmain and Wests represented separately in the State Cup again. Along with Fiji, Samoa, & Tonga. As is I'm envious of Souths, Newtown & the Bears. Kills me that Souths stood strong and sat a year out of the comp because they were passionate about their team - While Balmain and Wests showed no passion and merged in a heart beat. And look what happened over the next decade.
And please - No deluded comments about the "Wanderers" or the "Giants". Facts show (i.e. TV viewership and crowd numbers), as much as Phil Rothfield likes to deny - That both clubs are a non event in Western Sydney. Especially the Giants. Soccer has, and always will have - plenty of juniors. Its forever been the "sleeping giant". And if anything has gone backwards since the inception of the A League - Which has done nothing but weaken our National team. The Swans have been "somewhat" of a success. Yes they get the occasional 40k crowd but then they struggle to get over 50k people from Sydney watching on TV. And this is after 30 years of the AFL pumping them up in every way possible.
If popularity of a sport in Sydney was measured by a "sound meter" then yes we would be in trouble - And Rothfield would be correct in his assertion that the "Wanderers" are the biggest team in Sydney (holy f.u.c.k - How deluded is that statement!) but as is they are nothing more than a team that averages 14k and are watched, in average, by a ridiculously small amount of people on TV (lucky to get 80k) and that all important Sydney Derby against Sydney FC rated 188k and 122k viewers. Compare that to ANY NRL game and you'll see that the "Sleeping Giant" is still fast asleep.' Some State Cup games and under 20s games outrage this "Derby".
As for the numbers for the Swans v the Giants - I won't even bother.
InBenjiWeTrust
Well-known member
The fact is that when NRL kicked out Souths and Bears they lost huge number of fans, most of them do not care about the league anymore. However, Ribot's thinking is still alive :frowning:
Souths? They lost no fans when kicking out Souths? And if they did they were all back 2 years later and proudly supporting a team that showed "heart" and "fight". If anything it strengthened Souths and Souths took advantage of it to create an "us v them" mentality.
Agree the Bears was a bad move and left a major part of Sydney blank for League.
Agree the Bears was a bad move and left a major part of Sydney blank for League.
glebe_tiger
New member
I think on queue at least twice a year a relocation thread always pops up on this forum and coz we're not traveling as well as we'd like it always seems like the easy solution, right? Wrong. I think its a major copout for any fan to think about relocating. Is it just us or do other fans in the NRL or around the sporting world say to themselves, yeah we're not going good lets move our team or franchise across the country?!?! Who would contemplate relocating to appease money hungry tv execs? I'd be the first to light a match at foxtel headquarters if that was the case.
The obsession with expansion is also laughable at this stage, everyone knows the talent pool isn't big enough for starters and as people have mentioned the bailing out of the Titans and funding help for Knights, Dragons and ourselves is evidence enough that the NRL is minimum 10yrs I'd say 15yrs away from even a possible serious conversation about possible expansion. Perth will not and should not have a RL team anytime soon.
The NRL has a massive fight on their hands in their own backyard, in the RL heartlands and especially in the country. Fix this mess and get the struggling clubs viable again and then maybe can they think about expansion but they are way way off that and relocating an already struggling team is definitely not the answer but a poor solution. Just because we have the name Wests in our makeup doesn't mean we will be successful in Western Australia. And there will be no Western Sydney super club made of up of parra and Penrith joining forces I'm sorry but that is delusion of the highest order.
Plus the media need to stop fanning these rubbish stories when they arise because it was their owners that did irreparable damage all those years ago with the super league war.
The obsession with expansion is also laughable at this stage, everyone knows the talent pool isn't big enough for starters and as people have mentioned the bailing out of the Titans and funding help for Knights, Dragons and ourselves is evidence enough that the NRL is minimum 10yrs I'd say 15yrs away from even a possible serious conversation about possible expansion. Perth will not and should not have a RL team anytime soon.
The NRL has a massive fight on their hands in their own backyard, in the RL heartlands and especially in the country. Fix this mess and get the struggling clubs viable again and then maybe can they think about expansion but they are way way off that and relocating an already struggling team is definitely not the answer but a poor solution. Just because we have the name Wests in our makeup doesn't mean we will be successful in Western Australia. And there will be no Western Sydney super club made of up of parra and Penrith joining forces I'm sorry but that is delusion of the highest order.
Plus the media need to stop fanning these rubbish stories when they arise because it was their owners that did irreparable damage all those years ago with the super league war.
It is often noted in this forum that the comp, in general, is lopsided. There are 4 or 5 rich teams, the rest, and then us. As noted above, the NRL is a business with a revenue base of gambling and media entertainment sponsorships. To the NRL, WT is really a cultural artefact, a historical nicety that fits into notions of the 'proud history of this great game', etc.etc. But WT is not a powerhouse in the business of the NRL, to the contrary we are being supported by the business.
What happens in business when a sector of a company is not performing? The first response is often to prop that sector up to try to get it to perform. If that is not successful, you restructure.
To my mind the NRL itself is not in great shape. Lopsided playing field, schitsophrenic annual rule changes, inconsistent judiciary, frequent negative media, lunatic scheduling placing SOO in the middle of the season etc.. As a result the most likely scenario I see coming in the next few years is a restructure of the NRL. Teams that can't make the grade will simply be cut and the NRL will be a smaller competition and a more 'marketable product'.
How many viewers want to sit through a game where one side gets consistently flogged? Not great viewing…............I think I'll mow the lawn instead.....
WT is currently in the hot seat to be one of the teams to fall by the wayside. Without a wealthy knight in shining armour to pick us up and put us in the winners circle (top 4) consistently, we're not looking too good.
We will be a Rothfield by line, and the NRL won't shed a tear.
Sorry about the pessimism but I see this is as likely as a move to WA.
What happens in business when a sector of a company is not performing? The first response is often to prop that sector up to try to get it to perform. If that is not successful, you restructure.
To my mind the NRL itself is not in great shape. Lopsided playing field, schitsophrenic annual rule changes, inconsistent judiciary, frequent negative media, lunatic scheduling placing SOO in the middle of the season etc.. As a result the most likely scenario I see coming in the next few years is a restructure of the NRL. Teams that can't make the grade will simply be cut and the NRL will be a smaller competition and a more 'marketable product'.
How many viewers want to sit through a game where one side gets consistently flogged? Not great viewing…............I think I'll mow the lawn instead.....
WT is currently in the hot seat to be one of the teams to fall by the wayside. Without a wealthy knight in shining armour to pick us up and put us in the winners circle (top 4) consistently, we're not looking too good.
We will be a Rothfield by line, and the NRL won't shed a tear.
Sorry about the pessimism but I see this is as likely as a move to WA.
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
@WestsSupporter said:
I think this is the biggest myth supporters of this club carry. Even bigger than the paranoia some had thinking the Magpies we're going to come back once Ashfield took control. There's zero evidence to suggest we're on any kind of chopping block to be relocated. Just people's paranoia.
Obviously the majority of this board are emotionally tied to the Tigers in some way so to make it easier to rationalise - "What does a bank do when it has under performing branches in close proximity to one another? They shut one down, throw an ATM in a wall and people need to get use to change" (Leaguefreak).
The Tigers and Cronulla are these 2 under performing banks…...
The Tigers and Cronulla are these 2 under performing banks…...
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
@ed612313 said:
Do you have evidence to the contrary. By evidence I mean actual quotes from the NRL or Ashfield saying it could at least be a possibility. The lone fact we are one of the poorer clubs isn't evidence of anything.
Do you have evidence to the contrary. By evidence I mean actual quotes from the NRL or Ashfield saying it could at least be a possibility. As badly run as the Wests Tigers are (and the NRL) i highly doubt they are incompetent enough to suggest a team possibly could be relocated. Why slowly kill off a business and upset as many people as possible in the process. s The lone fact we are one of the poorer clubs isn't evidence of anything. Yes it is…. Its evidence we are a poorly run business. If being poor for a decade isn't evidence of this then i don't know what is
I think the travel costs and toll on players to and from Perth will always be the negative aspect of any NRL team in Perth and ultimately keep them from being a top 6 club.
I'm all for Toowoomba. Nothing to do with me living near Toowoomba :smiley:. But seriously, I think it would work for an NRL team. Toowoomba have a brand new airport (Brisbane West they call it) that has daily flights to Sydney and Melbourne. Just over 1 hours drive to Brisbane. 2 hours to Gold Coast. It's Australia's largest inland city and on the doorstep to the central west of QLD. Its also not far from the whole New England area of NSW. The QLD country Rugby League is still pretty strong up here, so there's is a lot of young potential to tap into. Plenty of good players have come out of the bush around these areas. The proposed in-land rail to Melbourne is also going right through Toowoomba.
The Wagners group who built the airport have plenty of cash and have been in a bit of a tugg of war with another group in Ipswich that also want a team. This Ipswich mob have been talked about in relation to expansion. Ipswich is between Toowoomba and Brisbane. IMO too close to the Broncos and Titans. There is also plenty of Mining companies based in and around Toowoomba that obviously have plenty of dough.
The Toowoomba Clydesdale's used to be the feeder club for the Broncos but the Broncos neglected them in years gone by. I think Toowoomba is ripe for the pickings.
The big hurdle is the same with most proposed cities for expansion, thats the lack of a quality stadium.
I'm fairly certain it won't ever happen, but if push came to shove Toowoomba would be a good fit for an NRL club and the Wests Tigers could could keep their identity.
I've lived here for 10 years now and am still surprised to see how many Tigers supporters are already here.
I'm all for Toowoomba. Nothing to do with me living near Toowoomba :smiley:. But seriously, I think it would work for an NRL team. Toowoomba have a brand new airport (Brisbane West they call it) that has daily flights to Sydney and Melbourne. Just over 1 hours drive to Brisbane. 2 hours to Gold Coast. It's Australia's largest inland city and on the doorstep to the central west of QLD. Its also not far from the whole New England area of NSW. The QLD country Rugby League is still pretty strong up here, so there's is a lot of young potential to tap into. Plenty of good players have come out of the bush around these areas. The proposed in-land rail to Melbourne is also going right through Toowoomba.
The Wagners group who built the airport have plenty of cash and have been in a bit of a tugg of war with another group in Ipswich that also want a team. This Ipswich mob have been talked about in relation to expansion. Ipswich is between Toowoomba and Brisbane. IMO too close to the Broncos and Titans. There is also plenty of Mining companies based in and around Toowoomba that obviously have plenty of dough.
The Toowoomba Clydesdale's used to be the feeder club for the Broncos but the Broncos neglected them in years gone by. I think Toowoomba is ripe for the pickings.
The big hurdle is the same with most proposed cities for expansion, thats the lack of a quality stadium.
I'm fairly certain it won't ever happen, but if push came to shove Toowoomba would be a good fit for an NRL club and the Wests Tigers could could keep their identity.
I've lived here for 10 years now and am still surprised to see how many Tigers supporters are already here.
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
@ed612313 said:
Yes it is…. Its evidence we are a poorly run business. If being poor for a decade isn't evidence of this then i don't know what is
I'll take that as a no then.
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