Tears dont cut it Mr. President

@Yossarian said:
@tigermaniac said:
Guns don't commit crimes, scum do. These morons that are hell bent on committing these cowardly acts will always find a way.
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The ultimate straw-man argument… Why not let people own thermonuclear devices or rocket launchers?

Semi-automatics make it a lot easier to kill people quickly and prevent people getting away. People with knives or even shotguns are extremely unlikely to be able to kill 28 people in one go. I really don't think the lack of gun rampages in this country since the gun laws were passed is a coincidence...

Killing of 1 person in this way is shocking, let alone so many. Where does this stupid idea of letting people own rocket launches come into your head. Get real for heavens sake, stop starting arguments for arguments sake. My point is that America is awash with these weapons, the crazys will find them easily wether they are illegal or not.
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@tigermaniac said:
@Yossarian said:
@tigermaniac said:
Guns don't commit crimes, scum do. These morons that are hell bent on committing these cowardly acts will always find a way.
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_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

The ultimate straw-man argument… Why not let people own thermonuclear devices or rocket launchers?

Semi-automatics make it a lot easier to kill people quickly and prevent people getting away. People with knives or even shotguns are extremely unlikely to be able to kill 28 people in one go. I really don't think the lack of gun rampages in this country since the gun laws were passed is a coincidence...

Killing of 1 person in this way is shocking, let alone so many. Where does this stupid idea of letting people own rocket launches come into your head. Get real for heavens sake, stop starting arguments for arguments sake. My point is that America is awash with these weapons, the crazys will find them easily wether they are illegal or not.
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Because your claim is that guns don't kill people, people do. Well if you believe that surely you'd support people owning rocket launchers? They don't kill people unless someone fires them.

Keeping something legal on the basis that making them illegal will not completely stop violence acts makes no sense. You need to start somewhere and if semi automatics were illegal it would make it easier to prosecute people who have them.

They aren't arguments for arguments sake, it is a discussion of an issue you raised.
 
@tigermaniac said:
@Yossarian said:
@tigermaniac said:
Guns don't commit crimes, scum do. These morons that are hell bent on committing these cowardly acts will always find a way.
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_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

The ultimate straw-man argument… Why not let people own thermonuclear devices or rocket launchers?

Semi-automatics make it a lot easier to kill people quickly and prevent people getting away. People with knives or even shotguns are extremely unlikely to be able to kill 28 people in one go. I really don't think the lack of gun rampages in this country since the gun laws were passed is a coincidence...

Killing of 1 person in this way is shocking, let alone so many. Where does this stupid idea of letting people own rocket launches come into your head. Get real for heavens sake, stop starting arguments for arguments sake. My point is that America is awash with these weapons, the crazys will find them easily wether they are
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You know what your argument was and Yoss is correct. Who was the last person murdered by a Leopard Tank? There hasn't been, mostly because you can't buy one. Whichever way you look at it, America's stats in the area of gun crime are appalling, just check them on a per capita base against other civilized societies. The second amendment is a crock, it was written 220 years ago and has as much relevance these days as would re-introducing rum as a valid currency.

Criminals might just find a way, but disillusioned, detached youths I suspect, would not, at least not without alerting a chain of suspicion.

The USA needs to sort it, otherwise their society is on borrowed time.
 
Yoss is correct and tigermaniac your argument is a pathetic excuse used by these loonys with cupboards full of rifles

I can kill someone with a hammer, cricket bat or fishing knife…..I wouldnt get as far as the frootloop did yesterday with those items though.....evry single child was shot MULTIPLE times...sprayed

The thing is America cries, tut tuts...does nothing until the next massacre and the cycle repeats....if they make a start on ridding the country of the weapons...well...a starts a start....its better than what is currently being done - sfa
 
@Citizen Tiger said:
The second amendment is a crock, it was written 220 years ago and has as much relevance these days as would re-introducing rum as a valid currency.

You'd think so. Unfortunately the right wing argument in the US is that the 2nd amendment guarantees the citizenry the right to bear arms so that they can 'overthrow a tyrannical government' if necessary.

very scarey.
 
@tigermaniac said:
Guns don't commit crimes, scum do. These morons that are hell bent on committing these cowardly acts will always find a way.
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Though I agree with the last part of your comment the first part is what all the fools with their heads burried in the sand say. You know, the right wing morons on Fox News. Funny thing is they dont extend this line of specious reasoning to other deadly persuits like the drugs issue. I can see it now. "Heroin doesnt kill people, its the person behind the needle". Just crazed reasoning. :crazy
 
@innsaneink said:
Yoss is correct and tigermaniac your argument is a pathetic excuse used by these loonys with cupboards full of rifles

I can kill someone with a hammer, cricket bat or fishing knife…..I wouldnt get as far as the frootloop did yesterday with those items though.....evry single child was shot MULTIPLE times...sprayed

The thing is America cries, tut tuts...does nothing until the next massacre and the cycle repeats....if they make a start on ridding the country of the weapons...well...a starts a start....its better than what is currently being done - sfa

Therein lies the problem Ink. Gun control will only go a small way to fixing this, the real issue here is the attitude & culture towards guns in the USA.

Nothing is going to change when you have NRA lunatics believing that the right for any Tom, Dick or Harry to walk into a Kmart and purchase a semi automatic rifle is more important than the right for anybody to walk down the street, go to school or go shopping safely without having the fear of being mowed down in a hail of gunfire. Most of these gun-nuts are most likely the same idiots that you see at pro-life rallies… Irony at it's purest.

I would have thought the right to live outweighs the right to own an M16.
 
![](http://images.smh.com.au/2012/12/17/3897291/af-techclub-20121217181720234815-620x349.jpg)

Adam Lanza - 3rd from right.
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When he was a student at Newtown High, Adam Lanza would sometimes have what a school employee referred to as "an episode".

No one knew what might bring it on. The shy teenager "would just shut down", said Richard Novia, a former adviser to the school tech club. He said Lanza would get together with other technology-minded students to play fantasy role-playing video games and for sleepovers at school. The thin, gangly boy would join in with enjoyment.

At school, Lanza would shuffle through the halls, clutching his briefcase to his chest and avoiding eye contact. At times, no one could predict when, he would simply shut down. He would sit staring at the ground, refusing to talk to anyone.

'A great parent' … Nancy Lanza, who was killed by her son Adam. Photo: Reuters handout

"It would be total emotional withdrawal," Novia said. "He wouldn't hurt anyone or yell. He wouldn't speak or talk, he would walk away. Not in a defiant way, but in a scared way. Like, 'Leave me alone.' "

Acquaintances of the family on Sunday drew a sharper picture of Lanza, 20, as investigators attempt to retrace his path last week from the 370-square-metre home where he shot his mother multiple times to a nearby primary school. There, he fatally shot 26 students and staff members and then killed himself.

When Lanza would have one of his "episodes", Novia said, he would telephone Nancy Lanza. She was "a great parent," he said, and would often come within minutes, sitting with her son and making him feel better.
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'Dysfunction between the siblings' ... Ryan Lanza. Photo: AFP

"She could pull him back in line," Novia said.

Lanza appears to have left high school early, and at age 16 began taking classes at Western Connecticut State University in nearby Danbury, where he earned a B-plus average.

He dropped out of German as he was about to fail the class, but earned an A-minus in American history and a B in macroeconomics. He took his last class at the university in summer 2009, the year before he would have been a senior in high school.

Starting college at 16 would have been jarring, Novia said, especially as Lanza's older brother left for college and later for a job in Manhattan, and their parents separated, leaving Lanza at home with his mother. The couple divorced in 2009.

"If I was to read the situation, he found himself so far disconnected from the world with no possibility of interaction. I'm sure he did not make friends well in a college setting," Novia said.

Lanza, at least in high school, was fond of joining "LAN parties" — short for Local Area Network — in which students would gather at someone's house and hook up their computers into a small network. They played not hard-core shooter games, but strategy games such as World of Warcraft and Mario Party.

"We were not in favour of first-person shooter games," said one of those who played with Lanza, Joshua Milas.

Lanza's older brother, Ryan Lanza, 24, was also a member of the tech club.

"There was a clear disconnect. Ryan was outgoing, energetic, well respected, recognised for his talents," Novia said. Ryan took care of his brother, but Novia said he heard they had become estranged in recent years.

"There's obviously dysfunction between the siblings," Novia said. "I could very easily see Ryan saying, 'Enough is enough. I've been your caregiver when I was supposed to be a teenager. I've got a life to live.' "

Nancy Lanza struggled to take care of her son and live a life of her own, friends said.

John Bergquist, who got to know Nancy Lanza at a neighbourhood bar where both were regulars, described her as a New Hampshire farm girl turned sophisticate, a Red Sox fan with season tickets who travelled to ride hot air balloons, attend jazz concerts in New Orleans, and visit friends in London, New York and San Francisco, sometimes taking her older son Ryan along.

She drove a silver BMW. She also hunted with falcons.

Bergquist remembered going with Nancy Lanza to see another friend from the bar who was having trouble getting a turkey back into its coop. After watching the struggle, he said, Lanza — who was elegantly dressed — "lifted the gate, walked in, grabbed the turkey by the feet and said, 'This is how you do it.' "

Lanza had a soft side when it came to her younger son, he said.

"She always spoke very lovingly about him. She was devoted to him, catering to him and his limitations," he said. "He wasn't troubled or violent in any way — he was a normal kid with a disability. ... He had trouble being with people."

Nancy Lanza appeared to have made the decision to move so that Adam could attend college in another state. She started looking at schools in Washington state and North Carolina.

"She was willing to uproot her life," Bergquist said. "Nancy pretty much made it clear that she needed to be with him because he couldn't handle being on his own."

At Western Connecticut, Adam Lanza did not work toward any major or degree, said college official Paul Steinmetz, and was still on the rolls at the time of the shootings, though not actively enrolled.

Few remember him at all. German professor Renate Ludanyi said her records show she gave him a "repeat" at the end of his time there — just short of failing. "I must have had some hope that he was smart and could do it again, instead of really flunking him," she said.

"Probably he didn't come to class very often," she said. "You get so many students, they come and go. Some speak with you, some are outstanding, some ... you barely remember when the semester's over."

Lanza fit into that last category, she said. "He never talked to me. He came in, sat down, and left. He was just there."

Los Angeles Times
 
Film, television and music stars, including Jeremy Renner, Gwyneth Paltrow and Beyonce, have recorded a hard-hitting video urging action on gun control following the Newtown school massacre.

Julianne Moore, Jamie Foxx, Selena Gomez and Chris Rock also appear in the video, backing a Demand a Plan campaign which notably seeks a ban on assault weapons, as well as criminal background checks for every gun sold in the US.

"Columbine. Virginia Tech. Tucson. Aurora. Fort Hood. Oak Creek. Newtown. Newtown. Newtown," they intone in the black-and-white video, taking turns to list the names of America's worst gun massacres of recent years.

"How many more? How many more colleges? How many more classes? How many more movie theatres? How many more houses of faith? How many more shopping malls?" they add.

The video, also featuring Ellen DeGeneres, Jon Hamm, Reese Witherspoon, Cameron Diaz, Jennifer Aniston and Conan O'Brien, appears on the website of the campaign, which claims 750 mayors and 750,000 people support its demand "that President Obama and Congress step forward with a plan to end gun violence".

"For the children of Sandy Hook," says Beyonce, referring to the primary school in Newtown, Connecticut, where a gunman slaughtered 20 young children and six adults last Friday, in one of America's worst gun massacres.

The Demand a Plan campaign calls for criminal background checks to be required for every gun sold in the US; assault weapons and high-capacity magazines to be banned; and that gun trafficking be made a federal crime.

"Our efforts cannot bring back the 20 innocent children murdered in Newtown … or the 34 people murdered with guns every day in America. But we can prevent future tragedies by passing common sense legislation," it says.

The video can be seen at [www.demandaplan.org](http://www.demandaplan.org).

Obama this week appointed Vice President Joe Biden to head a task force charged with framing proposals within a month to stem a rash of US gun violence.

On Friday, the National Rifle Association, breaking a week-long silence after the Newtown massacre, called for armed police to be deployed in every school in the country.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," it said.
 
@AmericanHistoryX said:
Film, television and music stars, including Jeremy Renner, Gwyneth Paltrow and Beyonce, have recorded a hard-hitting video urging action on gun control following the Newtown school massacre.

Julianne Moore, Jamie Foxx, Selena Gomez and Chris Rock also appear in the video, backing a Demand a Plan campaign which notably seeks a ban on assault weapons, as well as criminal background checks for every gun sold in the US.

"Columbine. Virginia Tech. Tucson. Aurora. Fort Hood. Oak Creek. Newtown. Newtown. Newtown," they intone in the black-and-white video, taking turns to list the names of America's worst gun massacres of recent years.

"How many more? How many more colleges? How many more classes? How many more movie theatres? How many more houses of faith? How many more shopping malls?" they add.

The video, also featuring Ellen DeGeneres, Jon Hamm, Reese Witherspoon, Cameron Diaz, Jennifer Aniston and Conan O'Brien, appears on the website of the campaign, which claims 750 mayors and 750,000 people support its demand "that President Obama and Congress step forward with a plan to end gun violence".

"For the children of Sandy Hook," says Beyonce, referring to the primary school in Newtown, Connecticut, where a gunman slaughtered 20 young children and six adults last Friday, in one of America's worst gun massacres.

The Demand a Plan campaign calls for criminal background checks to be required for every gun sold in the US; assault weapons and high-capacity magazines to be banned; and that gun trafficking be made a federal crime.

"Our efforts cannot bring back the 20 innocent children murdered in Newtown … or the 34 people murdered with guns every day in America. But we can prevent future tragedies by passing common sense legislation," it says.

The video can be seen at http://www.demandaplan.org.

Obama this week appointed Vice President Joe Biden to head a task force charged with framing proposals within a month to stem a rash of US gun violence.

**On Friday, the National Rifle Association, breaking a week-long silence after the Newtown massacre, called for armed police to be deployed in every school in the country.\
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"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," it said**.

There are just no words that can describe how ignorant these NRA d#$%heads are. Maybe if it was their precious, innocent little kids that were killed they MIGHT have a different perspective. Then again, there are no guarantees when you are dealing with imbeciles with their head in the sand.
 
It's a rubbish argument isn't it? It's pretty easy to get a gun now and yet you rarely here of crazed gunmen being stopped by a member of the public. I'm glad we live in a country where common sense trumps crazed minority voices… Well most of the time anyway.
 
For sure Yoss. We have enough trouble here in Oz as it is with home invasions, bashing of the elderly and general lunatics and d#$%heads roaming the streets targetting people randomly without having to worry about our society being awash with guns.
 
@Fade To Black said:
For sure Yoss. We have enough trouble here in Oz as it is with home invasions, bashing of the elderly and general lunatics and d#$%heads roaming the streets targetting people randomly without **having to worry about our society being awash with guns**.

Ever been to Sydney?????? or Melbourne??????

Sorry to tell you mate but we are awash with guns….maybe not semi's and auto's but handguns are everywhere over here as well.
 
@stryker said:
@Fade To Black said:
For sure Yoss. We have enough trouble here in Oz as it is with home invasions, bashing of the elderly and general lunatics and d#$%heads roaming the streets targetting people randomly without **having to worry about our society being awash with guns**.

Ever been to Sydney?????? or Melbourne??????

Sorry to tell you mate but we are awash with guns….maybe not semi's and auto's but handguns are everywhere over here as well.

At least they tend to shoot each other…
 
Look lets face it

America would be a far better place if so many Americans didn't live there

Give em all a gun and let the culling begin
 
@Fade To Black said:
@AmericanHistoryX said:
Film, television and music stars, including Jeremy Renner, Gwyneth Paltrow and Beyonce, have recorded a hard-hitting video urging action on gun control following the Newtown school massacre.

Julianne Moore, Jamie Foxx, Selena Gomez and Chris Rock also appear in the video, backing a Demand a Plan campaign which notably seeks a ban on assault weapons, as well as criminal background checks for every gun sold in the US.

"Columbine. Virginia Tech. Tucson. Aurora. Fort Hood. Oak Creek. Newtown. Newtown. Newtown," they intone in the black-and-white video, taking turns to list the names of America's worst gun massacres of recent years.

"How many more? How many more colleges? How many more classes? How many more movie theatres? How many more houses of faith? How many more shopping malls?" they add.

The video, also featuring Ellen DeGeneres, Jon Hamm, Reese Witherspoon, Cameron Diaz, Jennifer Aniston and Conan O'Brien, appears on the website of the campaign, which claims 750 mayors and 750,000 people support its demand "that President Obama and Congress step forward with a plan to end gun violence".

"For the children of Sandy Hook," says Beyonce, referring to the primary school in Newtown, Connecticut, where a gunman slaughtered 20 young children and six adults last Friday, in one of America's worst gun massacres.

The Demand a Plan campaign calls for criminal background checks to be required for every gun sold in the US; assault weapons and high-capacity magazines to be banned; and that gun trafficking be made a federal crime.

"Our efforts cannot bring back the 20 innocent children murdered in Newtown … or the 34 people murdered with guns every day in America. But we can prevent future tragedies by passing common sense legislation," it says.

The video can be seen at http://www.demandaplan.org.

Obama this week appointed Vice President Joe Biden to head a task force charged with framing proposals within a month to stem a rash of US gun violence.

**On Friday, the National Rifle Association, breaking a week-long silence after the Newtown massacre, called for armed police to be deployed in every school in the country.\
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"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," it said**.

There are just no words that can describe how ignorant these NRA d#$%heads are. Maybe if it was their precious, innocent little kids that were killed they MIGHT have a different perspective. Then again, there are no guarantees when you are dealing with imbeciles with their head in the sand.

What a Derrick, I'm not surprised by the NRA response and there only worried about the millions they receive and not about lives being saved. They have trotted out to bring in armed police to be deployed at every school just like they suggested with having security guards stationed at schools after the Columbine massacre. Thank god we live in Australia, I heard on the radio at work that gun sales on assault riffles has increased after the Newtown massacre, scary stuff and shows me how effed up their mentality on this issue is.
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I already feel bad for the next list. Ive lived in Greenwich Village in New York City. i caught the subway home many a time in the wee hours of the morning. I wouldn't do the same in Sydney. We need someone like Giuliani to clean up this mess here otherwise we'll have to migrate into Queensland.
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http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/12/20/sandy-hook-massacre-official-story-spins-out-of-control/

Sandy Hook massacre: Official story spins out of control

The massacre of 20 children and 7 adults at the Sandy Hook elementary school last Friday was one more in a long line of atrocious mass murders committed in the USA. By now, five days later, an official version of events has more or less solidified to explain the chain of events. The familiar ‘lone gunman’ narrative has once more stoked the hot-button issue of gun control and left the general population as clueless as ever as to why people suddenly ‘go postal’ and target the most vulnerable members of society.

On closer inspection, however, there is clearly more to many of these mass shootings than meets the eye. Very often the earliest reports present information that directly contradicts key foundations of the final ‘official’ analysis of events. Granted, confusion is natural when a story breaks, but some of the initial reports conflict so completely with the lone gunman narrative that I’m going to compile them here and then try to put this tragedy in a more objective context. In his speech at the Sandy Hook Interfaith Prayer Vigil in Newtown, Connecticut on Sunday night, President Obama quoted the following biblical passage:

“So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.”

~ 2 Corinthians 4:18

The traumatised Newtown community deserves the facts without the spin. Everyone touched by this brutal event deserves to know what really happened, so let’s fix our eyes on what remains unseen…

A 20-year-old ‘tech geek’ named Adam Lanza is supposed to have snapped early last Friday, December 14th, shot dead his mother Nancy Lanza, loaded her car up with her guns and ammo, then driven it across town to his former school, the Sandy Hook Elementary School, shot dead 27 people in two classrooms and an adjoining hallway, then turned one of his guns on himself.

That’s how most will now remember the shooting, but is that actually what happened?

All the child victims were first-graders between the ages of 6 and 7\. If there’s any saving grace to be found in this event, it’s that it was all over within minutes. Police were reportedly on the scene “instantaneously”, according to Connecticut State Police Commander, Lt. Vance and by then the shooting had ended. Listed among the slain school teachers and administrative staff was the school principal, 47-year-old Dawn Hochsprung. Right here we encounter our first problem:

The Newtown Bee
December 14, 2012

Sandy Hook School Principal Dawn Hochsprung told The Bee that a masked man entered the school with a rifle and started shooting multiple shots – more than she could count – that went “on and on.”

© The Newtown Bee

How could the principal have survived to give this statement to local press describing what happened … if she was one of the first to be killed? Incidentally, The Newtown Bee‘s article was taken down on Monday December 17th. Of course, a plausible explanation is that a reporter mistook another teacher for the principal.

We were initially told that two handguns – a Glock and a Sig Sauer – were found next to the body of the dead shooter, while a third weapon, a .223-caliber rifle was also recovered “in the trunk of a car” later, in the school’s parking lot. All of the weapons were allegedly legally bought and registered in Nancy Lanza’s name. The car was later identified as a black Honda, also registered in her name. More weapons have since been introduced to the story but we’ll get back to those later on.

Besides anonymous ‘law enforcement officials’ telling the media that Adam Lanza was a former pupil at the school, they also said his mother was currently a teacher there, that she was found among the dead and that her son had specifically sought out her classroom first. But when it emerged that teaching staff at the school had never heard of a Nancy Lanza, it was suggested that she was a substitute teacher whose name therefore mightn’t appear on staff lists.

But this claim too has disappeared down the memory hole because it’s now known that Nancy had no connection with the school. Adam Lanza was in fact home-schooled. Nancy Lanza has since been painted as a “survivalist” who loved firearms, taught her sons how to shoot and was “stockpiling” because she was “worried about economic collapse.”

Daily Mail, UK
December 16, 2012

Last night it also emerged Nancy was a member of the Doomsday Preppers movement, which believes people should prepare for end of the world.

Her former sister-in-law Marsha said she had turned her home ‘into a fortress’. She added: ‘Nancy had a survivalist philosophy which is why she was stockpiling guns. She had them for defense.

‘She was stockpiling food. She grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. She was skilled with guns. We talked about preppers and preparing for the economy collapsing.’
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It’s not difficult to see that their efforts to insinuate that Nancy Lanza was somehow responsible for this massacre by being an irresponsible mother also serve to rile the large contingent of gun owners in the country, particularly the far-right who see a conspiracy on the government’s part to “take back our guns.” More on that later, but for now I just want to note that all of the Lanza family members seemed to live more or less normal middle-class lives. Yes, the parents were divorced, but it was apparently amicable and both put their own needs second to those of their children (and anyway, divorce in the US these days is decidedly ‘normal middle class’).

Despite “family insiders” claiming that he was a “deeply disturbed kid”, Adam Lanza, like so many other alleged ‘lone(r) gunmen’ before him, does not fit the profile of a mass-murdering maniac. His 24-year-old brother, Ryan Lanza, said he hadn’t seen his brother since 2010\. This fact brings into question Ryan’s claim that his younger brother may have had his identity card on his person at the school shooting. Although perhaps the question that needs to be asked here is, why would a person bother to carry identification with them after going to the trouble of dressing up in a bullet-proof vest, mask and black camouflage gear and going on a killing spree …

The live emergency services audio feed from the scene reveals some interesting observations from first responders that have been completely overlooked by the mainstream media. Note that the unedited version lasts over two hours, so the abridged version I’m going to quote from has a compressed sequence of events that are not in real time. In this abridged version, we hear at 1.38′ a report that gunfire is still being heard, even though the shooting was supposed to have ended by the time police arrived. The next report at 2.35′ says that the shooting has stopped and the school is “in lockdown”. At 3.23′, the police relay a teacher’s report that she saw “two shadows running past the gym”. This is followed by another officer on the scene who says, “Yeh, we got ‘em, they’re coming at me! … [inaudible] … coming up the driveway real slowly!” That same officer at 5.40′ says he has them “proned out”, which presumably means he has apprehended them and they are laid out on the ground, before another officer comes on to say, “be aware that we do have a second [inaudible] …”

Later on, at 19.10′, an officer who sounds out of breath, like he’s just given chase, reports what I think sounds like “these guys” followed certainly by “multiple weapons, including long rifles and shotgun”. If these were found so early on, why were they not included in the initial press reports which stated that three firearms had been found – the above mentioned Glock, Sig Sauer and Bushmaster AR-15 rifle? Further conflicting, and possibly planted evidence was thrown into the mix by ‘law enforcement officials’ when they published video footage of a long weapon being retrieved from the trunk of a car. Look closely and you’ll see that it’s a shotgun, not a rifle. In addition, this ‘discovery’ was made late in the day (it’s dark outside), while the Bushmaster rifle was first reported found “in the trunk of a car” much earlier in the day. This would logically suggest that the rifle and shotgun were found in the trunks of two different cars.

Besides the above two suspects “proned out” in front of the school, another suspected gunman was apprehended after he gave chase, this time in the woods next to the school:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KMH3NQ2YXxI
The police are clearly chasing someone whom they appear to apprehend in the middle of the woods next to the school, a fact confirmed by several eyewitnesses
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ovspEgeMXb4
This fleeing suspect, wearing camouflage gear, a bulletproof vest and armed with four guns, has since disappeared from media coverage. Who was this person and how did he know what “it” was when he protested that “I didn’t do it”?

Perhaps most astonishingly, this suspect arrested in the woods was named in an Associated Press report as 24-year-old Ryan Lanza. The original report has long since vanished of course, but you can see it referenced here. This was despite the fact that Ryan had already been named as the deceased suspect inside the school, lying next to two handguns.

Ryan Lanza was actually at work in Hoboken, New Jersey, that morning when his name and photo began circulating in the media. And so, for most of Friday, the ‘lone shooter’ was erroneously reported as “Ryan Lanza, confirmed dead.” At the same time, we were being told that Ryan’s girlfriend and a room-mate were reported missing, also from Hoboken, New Jersey.

So this isn’t just a case of mistaken identity, as later claimed when it was suggested that Adam had a piece of identification belonging to his brother on his person. Not one, but BOTH Lanza brothers were being placed by ‘law enforcement officials’ at the scene of the shooting. It could be that Ryan’s quick reflexes to leave his workplace to get on a bus to go back to his apartment while protesting innocence via his Facebook page may have saved his life.

Now remember, all of this confusion somehow resulted from a single guy going into a school and shooting children and teachers and then shooting himself, all within three to five minutes. Surely it should have been fairly easy to rapidly and concretely identify the details of such a crime and a rough layout of the scene?

What it’s starting to look like is that the Lanzas were framed for this mass shooting in advance. Long before any suspects were named, and even as we were being told that Nancy Lanza was among the dead at the school, we were told that police were investigating a murder in … Hoboken, New Jersey, where a body had been found at the home of … Ryan Lanza! An older “confirmed” version of events had RYAN, not Adam, travelling to Hoboken that morning to murder his father before going to the school in Newtown, Connecticut. Other variants had Ryan OR Adam going to both their divorced parents’ homes and killing them before going to the school.

The narrative has now settled on the younger brother killing his mother in Newtown then going to the school. So what about the rest of it? Do we just put it down to ‘keen’ journalism that was having a field day last Friday as media outlets sought to bring us the latest ‘breaking news’? Confusion and ‘Chinese whispers’ undoubtedly play a part in the early stages of national media events, but I think back to those news anchors reading scripts about Osama Bin Laden within minutes of the first plane being hit on 9/11 and I think, ‘Wait a minute!’ All these misleading reports had to have been issued by someone or some people “confirming” to Associated Press and other media outlets that the Ryans’s father had been murdered [he wasn't even aware that the shooting at the school had taken place until journalists turned up on his doorstep], or that Ryan’s girlfriend had gone missing from Hoboken, or that either Ryan or Adam were pulled out of the adjacent woods in handcuffs yelling “I DIDN’T DO IT” to assembled parents. These aren’t just ‘little details’ that can be confused for other details, these are detailed narratives. So how, or why, would any member of the press come up with such details? They strike me as a set of alternative scenarios that might have found their way into the official narrative had facts on the ground turned out differently.

Watch this snippet of State Police Lt. Paul Vance at the press conference he gave the day after the shootings. His answer is as bizarre as it is revealing. When asked whether Nancy Lanza had any connection with the school, he replied defensively about something that is both unrelated and arguably the most significant fact that completely undermines the official narrative: the arrest of a second gunman in the woods:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qid9sE51d1k
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Most of the initial mainstream media reports have since been rewritten to fit ‘new’ facts proclaimed by ‘law enforcement officials’. Here’s an example from Business Insider. The following excerpts are the opening paragraphs from the ‘same’ article, one earlier original version, followed by the later revised version:

The massacre […] was reportedly perpetrated with a .233 caliber rifle, a Glock pistol and a Sig Sauer pistol.

![](http://www.sott.net/image/image/s6/124197/medium/newtown_guns_12152012_390.jpg)

The three guns Adam Lanza is supposed to have brought to the school with him. © New York Daily News. The rifle was left in the trunk, leaving ‘Adam Lanza’ just the two handguns to let off “hundreds of rounds”… firing .233 caliber bullets that belonged to the rifle… which was left in the car

This Associated Press/Newsday article on Saturday, December 15th, reported that “Only the rifle was used on the victims“, a statement that is supported by Dr. H. Wayne Carver II, Connecticut state’s chief medical examiner. Of the seven autopsies he personally performed on Sandy Hook victims, all of them had “three to 11 wounds apiece”. He also said that the ‘gunman’ used a military-style rifle rigged to quickly reload, and that the ‘shooter’ was able to reload so quickly because he had “taped two magazines together.” Even before the State Chief Medical Examiner had given these statements, it had been stated that spent shell casings from .233-caliber (rifle) bullets were found inside the school.

So all the victims’ wounds were the result of rifle-fire, specifically from “the rifle”, the one we were told in early reports was found in the trunk of a car in the parking lot! This is simply not credible.

Remember that only “the rifle” was used on all the victims. If only this rifle was used, and if we try to make this claim fit into the (admittedly fluid) official version of events, then the alleged lone gunman would have had to leave the school, place the rifle back in his trunk, then return inside the school and shoot himself. No one reported any such maneuver on the part of any gunman or gunmen. What we do have, however, is live emergency services radio feed in which we hear that two men have been apprehended and are “proned out” AND live video footage supported by eyewitness testimony showing what appears to be a THIRD man being arrested by police in the woods.

We can see how the authorities’ hands are tied because they need to fit all the facts into the usual ‘lone gunman’ narrative. For that, there can only be ONE rifle and a couple of handguns. The problem is that they have already claimed to find that solitary Bushmaster rifle in the trunk of a car in the school parking lot, so the earliest police reports of a cache of long arms being found inside the school will no longer fit with the lone gunman narrative, especially as they’re now saying that he had already opened fire as he burst into the school.

Could “scrawny” 20-year-old Adam Lanza have stormed the school, solo Rambo-style, while carrying “multiple long arms, including rifles and shotguns”? Only one person was wounded. Everyone else who was shot was killed. How could Adam Lanza achieve such deadly accuracy, in such a short length of recorded time?

Initial reports put the beginning of the shooting in the school administrators’ office, where someone, reportedly the school principal, had a confrontation with the gunman(men). We know this because someone supposedly turned on the school intercom system, alerting the teaching staff to the loud swearing and commotion in the principal’s office and probably saving many more children from being gunned down as teachers took measures to hide the children in closets.
One brave teacher, Kaitlin Roig, bundled a bunch of children into a bathroom and locked the door. What’s interesting about her testimony to ABC News is that when police arrived and asked her to open the door, she refused, saying that “if they were really cops, they’d know where to find keys to open the door.” In addition, she requested that they slide their badges under the door.

Now, this is generally a smart thing to do in any and all interactions with the police, especially in the U.S. But to have the wherewithal to do so under such traumatic circumstances strongly suggests that Ms. Roig had logically deduced by that point that multiple perpetrators were involved, and that they were either impersonating police officers or were indistinguishable from SWAT team police commandos, either in the way they dressed or the way they behaved upon entering the building. It also reminds us just how narrow the time window of the actual shooting was. The shooting appears to have barely ended when men knocked on that bathroom door and told Ms. Roig they were police.

There are also conflicting reports about how the gunmen entered the building. We were told initially that they came in through the main front entrance and proceeded straight to the administrators’/principal’s offices. But Sandy Hook elementary school has a security system with a video monitor, which allows staff to screen visitors before buzzing them in. A “masked gunman dressed in black tactical combat gear” from head to toe would kinda raise red flags, don’t you think?

Another possible anomaly is that Victoria Soto, one of the teachers killed at the school, appears to have had an ‘in memoriam’ Facebook page created in her name four days before the shooting.

Regarding this alleged ‘LIBOR scandal’ connection between this shooting and the Aurora theater shooting, there is as yet zero evidence to support the claim that either father of Lanza or Holmes were going to testify to anyone about anything, so for now this must remain just another rumor. I rather think that this is being spread to create the impression of a direct link that can be easily refuted, as in a straw man argument. The obvious and direct link staring everyone in the face is that the official accounts of these events are hocus-pocus. The glaring connection between these two shootings, the Sikh Temple shooting and the Fort Hood shooting is that multiple gunmen were reported at the time by eyewitnesses, but they are now all officially claimed to have been carried out by ‘lone gunmen’. This logically tells us that the real perpetrators are being protected with cover stories of what really happened because if the truth were known, some section of the U.S. government would be implicated.

Wade Michael Page, the ‘lone gunman’ in the Sikh Temple shooting in Wisconsin in August this year, was a highly decorated U.S. army psychological operations specialist, according to the Pentagon. But what happened to the three other gunmen seen by witnesses? It can’t surely be coincidence that Wade was (former?) military psy-ops. The thought has crossed my mind more than once during the aftermath of the Connecticut shooting. Others too have suggested this was a ‘false-flag’ event, or that Lanza was some sort of Manchurian Candidate.

But maybe there’s a simpler explanation (albeit more outrageous) than that? Was that really Adam Lanza they found inside the school? Do we even know for a fact that one of the gunmen was found dead inside the school? What we have instead are reports of two or three masked gunmen, apparently all dressed similarly in black tactical gear from head to toe, being wilfully forgotten about at best, or protected by the Federal Government at worst. Based on the authorities’ persistent but futile efforts to connect the Lanzas to this school, the multiple eyewitness reports of two shooters, the Connecticut State Medical Examiner’s report that all the victims were riddled with bullets from a rifle that we’re simultaneously being asked to believe was in the trunk of a car the whole time, similar reports of multiple shooters in previous mass shootings in recent years and the media focusing the emotional outcry onto the hot-button topic of gun control … I’m left wondering if this was actually the work of some highly trained professional hit team?

Was the massacre at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, a psy-op, using what amounts to a ‘death squad’ and a carefully planned mission to terrorise people on behalf of the government, in combination with perception management to shape the narrative and vector the emotional fallout?

Gun control isn’t really the issue here. Control – period – is the issue. The U.S. government would long since have taken measures, quietly, to limit the supply of weapons, the 2nd Amendment of the constitution be damned (it’s “just a goddamned piece of paper“, remember?), if it was really concerned with limiting civilian access to weapons. That we’ve seen gun sales increase in the last few days to the point where Wal-Mart is all out of assault rifles is wholly unsurprising.

The psychopaths in power have absolutely no compunction about using state terrorism, in this case organising the deliberate massacre of innocent children, to control people. In effect, this is little different from what the U.S. government calls counter-insurgency or counter-terrorism in foreign countries, where it attacks innocent civilians to create the impression that they were killed by ‘communists’, ‘terrorists’, ‘insurgents’ or ‘militants’, with the aim of generating public support for the illusion that the common people need a strong, ruthless government to protect them from the ‘evil-doers’. When the common people buy into this manipulation, the end result, as history shows repeatedly, is an overt and brutal police state.
 
weststigers4life….

Thats a pretty full on piece you have found there. I too have been watching and reading up on this tragedy as something just doesnt seem right with how this story was reported. The gun issue aside, there seems to be a fair bit happened that day that has not been released to the public. There is more to the story. I felt the same way when Port Arthur happened. It was all just too....neat. There was more than 1 gunman in both cases, I am sure of it.

Just about every video or news report I have watched with victims families, local police and even the coroner involve fake tears and smiling faces....WTF is happening???? Your little kids, your brothers and sisters have been ripped to pieces by gunfire, their little bodies barely recognisable....this is met by people almost laughing as they reminisce about said person, describing the childs favourite colour and so forth.... Really, really weird behaviour. None of them are in shock, none of them are even grieving.

Here's a vid of some jerkoff named Robbie Parker holding a press conference talking about his slain child and the massacre that happened only hours previously. http://youtu.be/cKWgCRBR5qE. There is no way this clown was the parent of a 6 year old girl who was shot only yesterday.

There are heaps of interviews like this.

However, whether there was more than 1 gun man or not and whether there is truth to conspiracy theorists about this event, the Yanks DO have massive problems with their gun control and supply laws. It is far too easy for a person to purchase an automatic weapon and with such a pathetic health system over there, the amount of people suffering from mental health issues must be staggering....and they all have the same access to weaponry. Scarey place.
 
It's an interesting read but any article that starts from the premise that the US government is shooting 6 year old kids to advance some cause is on shaky ground. Witness statements are notoriously unreliable which is why you often get conflicting or just flat-out wrong information especially in the early stages after an event.

I'm not sure where the benefit is in having a second shooter at Port Arthur. The witness accounts all support the conclusion that one lone nutter did all that.
 
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