Thank you fellow forumers!!! Pressure on Benji... FINALLY!

[stryker]

He is an average player at best.

What rubbish.

At his best he is AWESOME.

The bloke has won the golden boot for gawds sake and he is average at best???

I boo you loudly sir.

Average at best.

Yeah cause average players are spoken about with high regard, are the face of the game, win the golden boot and the RLIF 5/8 of the year, play for their country - and captain it, and have played in every all stars match.
You seem a poor judge Shane.

 

[stryker]

Johnathon Thurston is a champion, can you see the difference???

I dont get why people compare Benji to JT. They are chalk and cheese. Of course there is a difference. One controls the game (as he always has done) and the other doesnt (as he always hasnt). They should never be compared as they are polar opposites as players.

We already have one dinosaur on our payroll that is way past it (Lote) do we really need another?

He is 28 and won the golden boot only 2 years ago FFS….how does that make him a dinosaur or past it? You must be under the age of 16 to think that.

Saying we need a decent halfback for Benji to shine is rubbish. Champions only need themselves.

Wrong again. You tried to compare Benji to JT. Marshall is more like Matty Bowen. He can do anything with the ball in an attacking chance but relies upon someone to direct play and setup the chances. He needs to be partnered WITH a JT.

 

[snowleopard]

The thing is, Benji is trying but nothing is coming off for him. These are my reasons why he isnt killing it like he normally does;

#1 Everyone with a valued opinion in the league world has been in his ear for a few years now saying that with his experience and at his age he should be directing traffic ala Darren Lockyer. Gould did a couple of segments on the footy show which he called "the evolution of Benji". As a shameless self promoter, it was painfully obvious to me that Phil had been trying to steer him in this direction as he only praised him for the stuff that Gould himself had been saying he should do. Joey was another as was Sheens. They are all wrong. He is not that guy and the attempts to make him play like that even had Benji out in the media saying he was attempting to become a more complete player and his future was as a controlling half. This is BS. He is a free running freak who should not be weighed down by the heavy chains of such a role.

#2 This is his 9th year of NRL and he has only played with a dominant halback for 3 of those years. One must be brought to this club for a 3 year contract who can help run the firsts whilst providing mentorship to the up and comers such as Brooks so that they will be ready to take over in their early 20's.

#3 Even in 2011 Benji was creating a lot of haovc out on the field. Last year barely any. What changed? Well for starters he lost his halfback in Lui, but even more serious was the injuries to the forwards such as Gal, Ellis and Heighno. We made no ground up the guts and he was given the ball in poor positioning for his skill set. He needs the ball out on the edges, after the forwards have sucked in defenders, at speed and with options. A lot of times in 2011 he would get the ball, jink, step, swerve, do a pirroette - whatever and find an outside back steaming onto the ball. Ryan became a go to man for him. The reason? he understood where to be when Benji had the ball. Fast forward to this year and we see the emergence of some of the 20's stars to firsts due to injuries once again. They havent spent enough time with Benji in game mode yet and arent timing runs or positioning themselves correctly as of yet. He is getting caught with the ball a lot at the moment. It will come. It wont be long until Teddy and Korro especially start turning up in the right spots at the right times to recieve those magic balls that see them excellerate into space. The combinations have been disruptive but when they get there we will see out point scoring abilities increase dramatically.

#4 The R&B show. People have been carrying on about these 2 hogging the ball when down the oppositions end and they have a point. When in the opp half, Rob actively searches for Benj and distributes the ball hoping for a miracle. This is tied to the fact that we have no established halfback. The result is that Benji has 2 players all over him when he recieves the ball and feeling the weight of expectation to get us the score, tries something that is very low percentage to try and provide the miracle play. This has always been a part of his game but the difference is that in years past, we had structure to our attack - once again because of Prince and Lui and therefore what Benji was trying to pull off wasnt so far fetched. You can tell watching the game that R&B are completely alone out there when it comes to attack. I would like to see a stat on how many times one of them passes to the other. It would be a lot. They need running options. Last year neither center provided any and a lot of the times the back 3 didnt either…except Ryan who was usually fed a 20 meter cutout or a grubber under pressure himself.

It is going to take time for the new blokes to adapt to Marshal but one thing that can be done is ensure he stays out of the halfback role. Winning a lot of games isnt a reality this year. Blooding new players and practicing/perfecting combinations with them is. I reckon given another 4 months, a lot on here will have changed their tunes.

Good post Striker. Agree with most everything you have said. I mentioned in another post for the club and Benji himself , he needs to be positioned out wide with some space to be effective these days. A review of his career highlights at http://www.benjimarshall.com.au/ shows how damaging he was (and I reckon still can be) if Potter pushed him wider and gave him some players with speed to work with. Now we have injuries to Anasta , Lawrence, Ayshford this is the chance to get some speed on board like , SImona, Mr T, Nofo (back next week) to compliment Tedesco and Koro. The best form of defence is attack and now is the time to do it.

 

[kh_canada]

there was a link in another thread to a BM website that has a 20 min tape of his career highlights. Watching it really highlighted how dangerous and effective he used to be when working 2 or 3 passes off the ruck with the centres/wingers/full back when he was able to use his speed/deception to either make a break or create something from someone else. Most of the best plays didn't come from within the opposition 20 but rather 40 plus meters out where there was plenty of room/time to create the play. http://www.benjimarshall.com.au/

**IMO the only way we will ever get any benefit from him in the future is if his responsibilities for around the ruck plays and kicking are removed and he is made to work with the centres/wingers/full back out wide and out of the opposition 20.**

Sounds exactly like how a fullback would operate.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

I really have to say that I am dissappointed with the level of venom being spewed on here about this club legend.

Benji Marshal has been instrumental in putting the Wests Tigers as a football club on the map. We were a basket case of a team before he came along. A good Sunday arvo was to lose by 20\. We were boring, we were dirty, we were a joke.

Then this kid came along who allowed us as supporters to stand up and start boasting to our mates and whoever would listen that the Wests Tigers had the makings of a genuine star in our side - a player who had attacking skills not possessed by any other player in the competition. Through his pure attacking genious, he started making room for everyone outside him and creating passages of play that allowed them to believe in themselves. This led to our side in 05 playing with an arrogance that delighted the code and gained this club 10's of thousands of extra supporters and untold amounts in corporate dollars. We went from a side who provided little more than cannon fodder to one who was constantly being showcased on prime time television. Fast forward to last Friday night and the promotion was "the return of Benji Marshal". 8 years later and undoubtedly in career worst form, he is still our promotional tool and is still providing us with exposure to the wider audience and the corporate world. It is safe to say as far as I am concerned, that Benji Marshal has had a major hand in ensuring that this merger survived.

Hear, hear

:sign:

 

[ragedmachine]

Potter should really experiment and throw Benji at fullback for one round. It could be a master stroke ala. Inglis.

 

[barra]

Stryker, you have simply written too much here for me to quote, suffice to say I agree, but I also want to express a couple of things.

Your position on the tipping comp is thoroughly justified, I may not agree with everything you say but I kneel before your superior knowledge of the game! (Especially compared to the vast majority on here!)

And are you available to move into a coaching role at Wests Tigers? Because clearly I think they need someone with your grasp of the game and courage of conviction.

 

[Juro]

The trouble with offering Marshall a massive contract is that it forces us to build our team around him. The more money we give him, the less we have to buy other players, other options. If Marshall doesn't deliver, we are stuffed. Just look at how the Cowboys have gone over the years with Thurston. He demands such a large portion of their salary cap that they can't get a well balanced team.

 

[stryker]

The trouble with offering Marshall a massive contract is that it forces us to build our team around him. The more money we give him, the less we have to buy other players, other options. If Marshall doesn't deliver, we are stuffed. Just look at how the Cowboys have gone over the years with Thurston. He demands such a large portion of their salary cap that they can't get a well balanced team.

This is a very good point Juro. My stance is that I would sign him for life but you are right this runs the above risk. That is up to the coach. I will say though that with all the talented rookie backs we have at our disposal and without the pressures associated with the halfback role, the brilliant Benji will come back and get us all out of this depression we have been in for 18 months LOL…..

 

[happy_tiger]

The trouble with offering Marshall a massive contract is that it forces us to build our team around him. The more money we give him, the less we have to buy other players, other options. If Marshall doesn't deliver, we are stuffed. Just look at how the Cowboys have gone over the years with Thurston. He demands such a large portion of their salary cap that they can't get a well balanced team.

This is a very good point Juro. My stance is that I would sign him for life but you are right this runs the above risk. That is up to the coach. I will say though that with all the talented rookie backs we have at our disposal and without the pressures associated with the halfback role, the brilliant Benji will come back and get us all out of this depression we have been in for 18 months LOL…..

Mate ,won't happen unless we get some outside backs with speed and a forward pack that can go toe 2 toe with the Manly ,Souths ,Brisbanes etc

I reckon at least 3 years until we are even a Top 8 chance

 

[NT_Tiger]

I think Stryker has said it, thanks Stryker, but I’ll put my spin on it for what it’s worth.

Benji Marshall is never average. He can be dreadful or as Simon says He’s Awesome!

Benji Marshall is a wild card. He’s the highly skilled, low percentage player that can blow games open, or not. He’s not a controller with a broad overview of the play. He sees instant go options and reacts. Because he’s playing low percentages there is a greater risk of making errors.

To me his value comes down to a couple of things.

As I said in a post elsewhere I believe he is motivated by the spotlight and I don’t think his motivational style/attitude can be coached out of him. It’s who he is. That said, I don’t think for a minute that he’d rather look good than win. He wants to win and look good doing it. He’s not a team player in the classic sense because of his individuality but he still plays for the benefit of his team mates. That doesn’t negate his value, it just means his role has to be coached into the team.

He needs a controller with a broad overview that can set up plays and increase the odds that his miracle plays will stick. At the moment (without a halfback) you see him running back and forth across the field. He doesn’t see gaps to exploit and then tries to force a play. Currently we don’t have enough attacking options and when he gets the ball the opposition knows what is going to happen. If a controller with an overview, who represents an attacking threat in their own right, is playing inside him we have a different story.

He needs solid coaching. To take the pressure to perform off him, his role has to be strongly defined both to him and to his team mates. I.E. He has to be told; you’re the Joker in the deck, you’re not the Ace or the King. No one is expecting you to set up the plays. The rest of the team has to be coached to understand his role and know how he plays. I.E. Be on the alert if he has the ball, something is going to happen. Effectively the way I see it is; as soon as Benji has the ball, he’s in the spotlight, his team mates need to watch for it because they might be in the spotlight with him when the low percentage play comes to them. This brings up the next thing necessary for making Benji Marshalls style work.

Team stability. A stable team that plays in position can learn each others plays, strengths and foibles and read each others body language on the run. This is an absolute must, to get the best out of a wild card player.

I don’t think Marshall should be allowed, or worse still encouraged, to continue as pseudo halfback and principle playmaker. I don’t think he can do that job. To me, as long as he perceives that he is expected to be a controller and playmaker he will continue to pile pressure on himself because his own motivation is to pull off the big play. The more pressure he perceives the more likely he is to go for the Hail Mary.

I don’t agree that Marshall should be dropped from contract. A coach that knows how to utilise his value will snap him up and the Tigers will be the losers.

 

[Black_n_White]

^ hell of a nice post!

 

[Peaches]

For me Benji Marshall should be a much more complete player. Benji and a certain ex-coach I think need to take some responsibility in for not fulfilling just how ridiculously talented this man is. I just wonder how someone like Wayne Bennett or Craig Bellamy would have done if they had the opportunity to coach him.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[2041]

I think there are two completely separate issues with Marshall, which are often confused - these are the player he is and the player he will become (these often get further confused by thinking about the player he has been).

Regarding the player Marshall is, I'm very much in the camp that says it's ridiculous to write off a skill player when he's surrounded in the main by kids, reggies and dross. Marshall is clearly down on form and is, at best, half fit. Put that guy in a decent side and he's still a game winner, I'm convinced. And it's absolutely fair to say you have to view him on his own terms: clearly this is not a player like Thurston or Cronk.

Of course there's another argument about whether you can win a comp with a Marshall rather than a control type of player running your game, and it's a fair one. Certainly recent winners have tended to have the field general halves rather than the mercurial geniuses: I'd list Cronk and Widdop, Foran and Cherry-Evans, Soward and Hornby. But surely that's a wider argument? If you _need_ to play a tightly structured, defence-focused game to win the comp then clearly the Tigers have been going down the wrong road for years and it's a bigger issue than Marshall.

The second issue, which is a separate one, is the player Marshall will be. This is a genuine question: when was the last time a player like Marshall with a game based on pace, acceleration and instinct, been a star-level contributor up to the age at which the Tigers are proposing to pay him as one? I would have thought this is precisely the type of player you do not want to be giving nearly a million dollars to for their age 34 season. It's all very well saying you can't compare Marshall to Lockyer, but I'd argue that in order for Lockyer to remain a good player for as long as he did _he had to play that way_. If he was still relying on his running game into his mid 30s he'd have been a complete liability as he was no longer fast. What is Marshall going to rely on when he's (even) slower?

I asked this in another thread yesterday, but who are the Tigers bidding against for the next five years of Marshall? I'm trying to think of another club who'd offer him major money for five years and honestly I can't come up with anyone that dumb (Parramatta?).

 

[shane2801]

I respect your opinion Stryker and appreciate the time you spent on these posts. I still however disagree on how everyone rates him as someone special. A freak. 2005 he brought something new to the game and was pretty much unstoppable. No other player knew how to contain him. Not sure how old you are but in the early 90's Paul Hauff (fullback Brisbane) came onto the scene and set the world alight for a season. Nobody could tackle him. After a season other teams worked him out. Same has happened to Benji.

I just don't rate him but I hope you are correct in your predictions because unfortunately for me he isn't going anywhere soon.

 

[tig_prmz]

The thing is, Benji is trying but nothing is coming off for him. These are my reasons why he isnt killing it like he normally does;

#1 Everyone with a valued opinion in the league world has been in his ear for a few years now saying that with his experience and at his age he should be directing traffic ala Darren Lockyer. Gould did a couple of segments on the footy show which he called "the evolution of Benji". As a shameless self promoter, it was painfully obvious to me that Phil had been trying to steer him in this direction as he only praised him for the stuff that Gould himself had been saying he should do. Joey was another as was Sheens. They are all wrong. He is not that guy and the attempts to make him play like that even had Benji out in the media saying he was attempting to become a more complete player and his future was as a controlling half. This is BS. He is a free running freak who should not be weighed down by the heavy chains of such a role.

#2 This is his 9th year of NRL and he has only played with a dominant halback for 3 of those years. One must be brought to this club for a 3 year contract who can help run the firsts whilst providing mentorship to the up and comers such as Brooks so that they will be ready to take over in their early 20's.

#3 Even in 2011 Benji was creating a lot of haovc out on the field. Last year barely any. What changed? Well for starters he lost his halfback in Lui, but even more serious was the injuries to the forwards such as Gal, Ellis and Heighno. We made no ground up the guts and he was given the ball in poor positioning for his skill set. He needs the ball out on the edges, after the forwards have sucked in defenders, at speed and with options. A lot of times in 2011 he would get the ball, jink, step, swerve, do a pirroette - whatever and find an outside back steaming onto the ball. Ryan became a go to man for him. The reason? he understood where to be when Benji had the ball. Fast forward to this year and we see the emergence of some of the 20's stars to firsts due to injuries once again. They havent spent enough time with Benji in game mode yet and arent timing runs or positioning themselves correctly as of yet. He is getting caught with the ball a lot at the moment. It will come. It wont be long until Teddy and Korro especially start turning up in the right spots at the right times to recieve those magic balls that see them excellerate into space. The combinations have been disruptive but when they get there we will see out point scoring abilities increase dramatically.

#4 The R&B show. People have been carrying on about these 2 hogging the ball when down the oppositions end and they have a point. When in the opp half, Rob actively searches for Benj and distributes the ball hoping for a miracle. This is tied to the fact that we have no established halfback. The result is that Benji has 2 players all over him when he recieves the ball and feeling the weight of expectation to get us the score, tries something that is very low percentage to try and provide the miracle play. This has always been a part of his game but the difference is that in years past, we had structure to our attack - once again because of Prince and Lui and therefore what Benji was trying to pull off wasnt so far fetched. You can tell watching the game that R&B are completely alone out there when it comes to attack. I would like to see a stat on how many times one of them passes to the other. It would be a lot. They need running options. Last year neither center provided any and a lot of the times the back 3 didnt either…except Ryan who was usually fed a 20 meter cutout or a grubber under pressure himself.

It is going to take time for the new blokes to adapt to Marshal but one thing that can be done is ensure he stays out of the halfback role. Winning a lot of games isnt a reality this year. Blooding new players and practicing/perfecting combinations with them is. I reckon given another 4 months, a lot on here will have changed their tunes.

what about his problems with defense? missing half a dozen tackles a game, half a dozen errors a game, dumb 2nd tackle kicks, passes to the crowd etc.

the issue with him is that he is too selfish, he WANTS to go for the miracle pass everytime.

he is an experienced person in the team.. doesnt matter if he's a 5/8 or a fullback. he doesn't need to organise the forwards, but he needs to inspire his team mate throughout the game. when the team is going bad, he goes and hides in his shell.

if we are gonna be paying him anywhere near the rumoured price.. then what he does or what we have seen him do previously, is not it.

im not sure if you've seen him in the interviews or on TFS, but he is a selfish and arrogant person. it shows that in his game as well.