The halves problem

[Lestronge]

Luai's contract is still a bit of an issue here. While he improved at the back end of last year and the Cowboys game was the best in our colours, even at his best he's not really a million dollar player. 3 more years of this after this year too so hopefully no further injuries or regression.

While it looks like he's done a lot for us in terms of helping the culture off the field and getting players to buy in to Benji's plan, it would be nice if he were on 700-800 which is more reflective of his skill level rather than 1.2m or so. I guess if you're gonna overpay for a player, a half in their prime is the right position.

At the end of the day having 4 viable first grade halves is a great problem to have. As long as they can stay healthy and continue to perform, no real complaints from me.

Do people remember 2021-2024 . Because I do . Do they remember 2012-2022 ? Because I do . We have had a culture problem here for as long as I can remember . Transient guys who either think the club is a joke , love the club but just arnt up to it like brooksy , or guys looking to use it as a stepping stone … hello Tedesco .
The 400k you’re talking about ? With the change in culture , the standards being driven, th buy in , the attraction of other players both 15 year olds an 32 year olds from nz looking for an opportunity … does not happen without luai here . He’s spreading the good word in origin camp. He’s ripping up teammates who think it’s a joke/ or arnt up it . He’s driving standards in training . Inspiring young leaders to emerge .. and they’re driving standards … hello KPP ,Heyward .
We have had 15 years without a player like this … and people think he’s not worth it ? Based on what ? Because last year his try assists were down , and their super coach fantasy points suffered … if you think luai isn’t worth it ! Anyone ? You DO NOT KNOW what you’re talking about, to the point I’m getting second embarrassment reading the posts about it .
Also as the cap goes up that percentage drops considerably from roughly 10% right now , to 7-8-%. It’s not even an issue . The titans are paying Keanu Kini 1.2m on potential . They’re paying thier front rower 1.2m right now . We’re paying a second rower 1.2m , who makes 4 runs a game. Someone will give a Walsh level player 1.5m soon , and I can se PNG going to 1.8m for Cleary for a couple of years . The 1.2 is not that big of a deal . Especially because it’s locked in for another 3 years .(he’s taking up his option) . It’s not 2005 and the cap is 5m. The cap is 12m right now and soon to jump to 15mil . Maybe even 16 or 17.

 

[EllisFan]

I think he’s a yeo like 13 in attack with a higher top speed.

The good things he does are generally running the ball wide of the ruck though. Two clean breaks last night two off the ruck for tries. Yeo creates from second phase through the middle.

If I was coaching I’d probably have to move him to centre but give him a license to get into second receiver and run it if something is on. Hard player to get a read on.

 

[crazycat]

The halves problem...

We have Doueihi who ran 210m! and Jock Madden who guided our side better then any Nr7 since Robert Lui.

Seriously, I would not have Gambled on us loosing to the warriors by less then 10 points. I thought we were done. We smashed them!

Then there is Jerome Luai. Is he an 800k player paid 1.2m... Guess what "I DON'T CARE"!
Why? He is awesome.

He is Awesome.


Our problem has been top tier signings that haven't delivered value on the field or added to our culture.
Luai delivers, sometimes inconsistently but he delivers and he adds to our culture.

Contrast this with Bula. We have someone who is probably putting 800k on field value. But Bula isn't adding to our culture and helping ancor Mr Moses to our club. Bula goes, I think most players would shrug. Luai goes and we loose our momentum and playing group.

 

[Lestronge]

The halves problem...

We have Doueihi who ran 210m! and Jock Madden who guided our side better then any Nr7 since Robert Lui.

Seriously, I would not have Gambled on us loosing to the warriors by less then 10 points. I thought we were done. We smashed them!

Then there is Jerome Luai. Is he an 800k player paid 1.2m... Guess what "I DON'T CARE"!
Why? He is awesome.

He is Awesome.


Our problem has been top tier signings that haven't delivered value on the field or added to our culture.
Luai delivers, sometimes inconsistently but he delivers and he adds to our culture.

Contrast this with Bula. We have someone who is probably putting 800k on field value. But Bula isn't adding to our culture and helping ancor Mr Moses to our club. Bula goes, I think most players would shrug. Luai goes and we loose our momentum and playing group.

He is the leader of the club. Benji was this person in 2011 . But he didn’t see it in himself/ lost sight of it . Went to union in 2012 , and spent the next 5-7 years trying to get back here . They’re kindred spirits. And I think luai is smarter than Benji in the fact he recognises this within himself .
Get used to Luai people … he’s going to be here for a very long time . Wearing the 6 , coming off the bench , running the water , sitting on the coaches box , doing pressers …. All of it !

 

[Odessa]

He is the leader of the club. Benji was this person in 2011 . But he didn’t see it in himself/ lost sight of it . Went to union in 2012 , and spent the next 5-7 years trying to get back here . They’re kindred spirits. And I think luai is smarter than Benji in the fact he recognises this within himself .
Get used to Luai people … he’s going to be here for a very long time . Wearing the 6 , coming off the bench , running the water , sitting on the coaches box , doing pressers …. All of it !

Luai won't be off the bench unless coming back from injury and needs some fitness in the legs

 

[Lestronge]

Luai won't be off the bench unless coming back from injury and needs some fitness in the legs

lol I meant in 2031 when he’s 34/35 . I was trying to say this guy will retire here , find a coaching role here etc. Same with Api. They will just be here . Everybody ready for old man api and luai in tigers polos . Because it’s gonna happen . Unless someone blows up the world or our AI overlords come into power . Who knows , maybe they will like the sports us meat sacks play ? And let it continue haha 😝

 

[watersider]

Stop

🤣 Luai was the best player on the field round 2 . He was/ is dynamic every single time he touches the ball. He has the top 3 best short kicking games in the comp , he’s by far the strongest defensively of our halves including AD. He has huge respect in the locker room , an is the catalyst for the change in attitude and culture within the club … as much as Benji . He’s also an origin player a with the 6 man bench I guarantee he is in origin camp when it’s announced …. PRISONERS OF THE MOMENT! Geezus Christ … dropping luai ? What a load of shit …

I like luai, he's a good half. I specifically said I'm not talking about who is the better player but who plays the role better for us.

Luai is not an organising halfback, so if madden stays in his current form you need madden at half back. Thats nowhere near certain as, like you say, it was one game. But that sort of performance is what EVERY team wants from a halfback.

So then you're talking about a choice between luai and doueihi assuming madden maintains his form. Doueihi is bigger stronger and faster with a better long kicking game. I'll concede luai has a crafty short kicking game, but I wish it were more consistent. I wasn't even talking in absolutes, but I can easily see doueihi's skills working better within the team with madden at half.

You don't play luai because he WAS an origin half, you don't play him because he talks to origin players, you don't play luai because of what he did at Penrith, you don't play him because he had a good game against the cowboys at Leichhardt oval, you play him because he's the best player for our team next week.

I don't think his level at the tigers has been better than doueihi. I don't think doueihi is any less invested or inspirational to the team. I do think luai has much more media clout and pull across the NRL. I don't think that is a factor when you are trying to put together our best backline.

Again, I like luai, I support us buying him. If madden and doueihi continue to play like last night you do not change the team. That is absolutely simple and obvious. This isn't bagging luai, this is looking at the make up of the team and where the pieces fit best. With an organising half and a deeper backline and two players who create space for outside players, I want a hard running player like doueihi outside of them. You can see that mix can work, yeah? Perhaps luai takes doueihi's spot and does it better?

More likely is that neither doueihi or madden can maintain that level and we see more of their limitations cond through. Tannah Boyd is a good example as an organising half. He's got all the skills but just isn't threatening enough as a runner so teams figure him out and he lacks an edge other halves have. As I said, it will be an interesting period seeing how madden goes with it, it's very exciting POTENTIALLY having a capable organising halfback.

I'm not having a go at luai, I think both madden and doueihi combined to play at an elite level that, if sustainable, you do not change.

 

[Speed2burn]

IMO Jock will play a Ben Hunt style role off the bench when Luai gets back

Even though I feel like he deserves a starting spot, Doueihi and Luai were heavily invested in the off season to switch up this early in the season

 

[Odessa]

lol I meant in 2031 when he’s 34/35 . I was trying to say this guy will retire here , find a coaching role here etc. Same with Api. They will just be here . Everybody ready for old man api and luai in tigers polos . Because it’s gonna happen . Unless someone blows up the world or our AI overlords come into power . Who knows , maybe they will like the sports us meat sacks play ? And let it continue haha 😝

Could you imagine being a young player and API and Luai turn up to talk about playing at the Tigers they have so much engery and extremely positive people it would be a big plus for the club

 

[watersider]

Could you imagine being a young player and API and Luai turn up to talk about playing at the Tigers they have so much engery and extremely positive people it would be a big plus for the club

Yes, if we win games.

 

[wstigers11]

The competition for spots is making everyone lift. And they all look like they want to play for each other. It’s a great problem to have

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Madden has to be our 7 for the rest of the season. Throughout the trials and tonight he's organising is very well and had an excellent kicking game. Things that we haven't had for years, he's the best hair we've had in maybe a decade.

Luai will be the 6 and AD who knows, lock? AD is exclusively a ball runner. He has poor passing skills and a highly erratic kicking game, but itms a strong runner of the ball, and he knows it. But he's also not a centre. Too slow for that and not a second rower either. He just doesn't have a position. A solid squaddie but he's essentially homeless, yet we've re-signed him for 4 years for some reason.

Not against his resigning.
Players don't play every game for the whole season.
He can adequately fill a lot of gaps.
But he plays best outside a game manager like Madden who positions him deep.
But I agree Benji loves Luai so he will return as the 5/8.
Just that Benji needs to get in Luai's ear to have him stand deeper and allow Madden to control [mostly] the kicking. Free him up to do his own game planning. Reduce his stopping and turning back to the middle. That rarely produces a try.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

It was OK. Decent and competent shift from an fairly experienced player. But it wasn't exceptional.

Just better than the usual suspects! Which is a big plus.

 

[EllisFan]

I like luai, he's a good half. I specifically said I'm not talking about who is the better player but who plays the role better for us.

Luai is not an organising halfback, so if madden stays in his current form you need madden at half back. Thats nowhere near certain as, like you say, it was one game. But that sort of performance is what EVERY team wants from a halfback.

So then you're talking about a choice between luai and doueihi assuming madden maintains his form. Doueihi is bigger stronger and faster with a better long kicking game. I'll concede luai has a crafty short kicking game, but I wish it were more consistent. I wasn't even talking in absolutes, but I can easily see doueihi's skills working better within the team with madden at half.

You don't play luai because he WAS an origin half, you don't play him because he talks to origin players, you don't play luai because of what he did at Penrith, you don't play him because he had a good game against the cowboys at Leichhardt oval, you play him because he's the best player for our team next week.

I don't think his level at the tigers has been better than doueihi. I don't think doueihi is any less invested or inspirational to the team. I do think luai has much more media clout and pull across the NRL. I don't think that is a factor when you are trying to put together our best backline.

Again, I like luai, I support us buying him. If madden and doueihi continue to play like last night you do not change the team. That is absolutely simple and obvious. This isn't bagging luai, this is looking at the make up of the team and where the pieces fit best. With an organising half and a deeper backline and two players who create space for outside players, I want a hard running player like doueihi outside of them. You can see that mix can work, yeah? Perhaps luai takes doueihi's spot and does it better?

More likely is that neither doueihi or madden can maintain that level and we see more of their limitations cond through. Tannah Boyd is a good example as an organising half. He's got all the skills but just isn't threatening enough as a runner so teams figure him out and he lacks an edge other halves have. As I said, it will be an interesting period seeing how madden goes with it, it's very exciting POTENTIALLY having a capable organising halfback.

I'm not having a go at luai, I think both madden and doueihi combined to play at an elite level that, if sustainable, you do not change.

I have no doubt Luai is a massive reason that so many of our players are playing near their ceiling or improving their ceiling the last 18 months. Culture is a very real thing in teams and Luai is just a leader in that regard.

On the field there are so many more layers to Luai’s game than AD’s. AD is a strong runner who is reluctant to pass with a pretty limited kicking game.

If it comes down to a shootout between Luai & AD for the 6 jersey it is not a contest.

Liking AD’s input in two games this year, still don’t know where he belongs though.

 

[weststigerman]

Both halves looked good last night. Madden brings something different, and AD seemed better back to running wider.

Small sample size and no need to change anything now. By the time Luai’s back we’ll know more and hopefully Latu will have had more game time under his belt.

Good problem to have.

 

[FootyEnjoyer]

I reckon when Luai comes back we are going to have a real halves conundrum. Luai owns the 6 jumper. Madden is no flash, but he is clearly the steady hand we need at 7.

Latu needs to play because he's an absolute gun, but where does he fit? I'm not sure a Latu-Luai combo works, Latu is an out-and-out 6, and they are too similar in how they play. Neither of them have an amazing long kicking game either. Latu on the bench is working for now, but I worry it will stunt his development. If I was him, I wouldn't be super happy to join the Tigers to play in the halves, and then get relegated to a bench utility.

Doeuihi doesn't really fit perfectly into any position, but he is so dangerous in attack, and has been one of our best so far. The Doeuihi at centre experiment has been tried and clearly failed, his defence there is trash.

I think Doeuihi at 13 is an option, with him playing sort of as a third half. But can his body handle it, and will he hold up in defence? Twal is also absolutely crushing it at 13.

I also worry that trying to fit all these guys in is just reinventing the wheel, and will end up with a clunky and awkward attack. It wouldn't be the first time we field a clunky and awkward attack having players out of position...

Good problem to have I suppose, but a problem nonetheless.

 

[TYGA]

Interesting take having depth being a problem. The best thing we have done this year is replacing weak links and getting depth. Richo and Benji should be applauded for this albeit early days.

 

[Tom Shines]

I reckon when Luai comes back we are going to have a real halves conundrum. Luai owns the 6 jumper. Madden is no flash, but he is clearly the steady hand we need at 7.

Latu needs to play because he's an absolute gun, but where does he fit? I'm not sure a Latu-Luai combo works, Latu is an out-and-out 6, and they are too similar in how they play. Neither of them have an amazing long kicking game either. Latu on the bench is working for now, but I worry it will stunt his development. If I was him, I wouldn't be super happy to join the Tigers to play in the halves, and then get relegated to a bench utility.

Doeuihi doesn't really fit perfectly into any position, but he is so dangerous in attack, and has been one of our best so far. The Doeuihi at centre experiment has been tried and clearly failed, his defence there is trash.

I think Doeuihi at 13 is an option, with him playing sort of as a third half. But can his body handle it, and will he hold up in defence? Twal is also absolutely crushing it at 13.

I also worry that trying to fit all these guys in is just reinventing the wheel, and will end up with a clunky and awkward attack. It wouldn't be the first time we field a clunky and awkward attack having players out of position...

Good problem to have I suppose, but a problem nonetheless.

Moving either AD or Twal ( never mind both ) the way they have been playing so far this season ( minus ADs game against Souths ) to accommodate playing a $300k a year Number 6 in the starting team would be Sheens level of coaching selection lunacy…

Maybe things might change…form might drop and injuries are inevitable…but until that happens….

 

[EllisFan]

Moving either AD or Twal ( never mind both ) the way they have been playing so far this season ( minus ADs game against Souths ) to accommodate playing a $300k a year Number 6 in the starting team would be Sheens level of coaching selection lunacy…

Maybe things might change…form might drop and injuries are inevitable…but until that happens….

We obviously get 3 or 4 more weeks to decide but Madden lead the team around well last night. He didn’t play a 6 role imo.

 

[stevied]

Wow, it's fantastic, that for a change, we can chat about how we fit a bunch of in form players into a handful of key positions! A great luxury to have! Regarding the halves, we find ouselves in a quandary. All of Luai, Douehi, Madden and Latu Fainu deserve/ have to be in the squad. Douehi and Madden both had outstanding games yesterday, Latu was good off the bench and Luai, our club leader and 1.2 mil man has to come back in. Madden played the perfect half back game yesterday by straightening the attack, kicking beautifully and, generally, steering the team around the park. I'd keep him there. Luai, when he returns, should be 6. He's more the runner and freewheeler and is an excellent foil for Madden. Where it gets tricky is when you analyse Douehi. He is not a half in my opinion and this is only my opinion. I agree with Sirro, great player at the moment but not a halfback. However, he's a big body, can make a break and has some ball skills. If all of the players are to fit in the team, Douehi has to be lock. Twal goes to prop and Latu 14. I think this is the only way it can all work, once Luai comes back. One thing is for sure, if Madden can become be our own version of Adam Reynolds, the team will be so much more organised and cohesive. Jock has 3 more weeks to show he can do it.