The halves problem

[Lestronge]

I like luai, he's a good half. I specifically said I'm not talking about who is the better player but who plays the role better for us.

Luai is not an organising halfback, so if madden stays in his current form you need madden at half back. Thats nowhere near certain as, like you say, it was one game. But that sort of performance is what EVERY team wants from a halfback.

So then you're talking about a choice between luai and doueihi assuming madden maintains his form. Doueihi is bigger stronger and faster with a better long kicking game. I'll concede luai has a crafty short kicking game, but I wish it were more consistent. I wasn't even talking in absolutes, but I can easily see doueihi's skills working better within the team with madden at half.

You don't play luai because he WAS an origin half, you don't play him because he talks to origin players, you don't play luai because of what he did at Penrith, you don't play him because he had a good game against the cowboys at Leichhardt oval, you play him because he's the best player for our team next week.

I don't think his level at the tigers has been better than doueihi. I don't think doueihi is any less invested or inspirational to the team. I do think luai has much more media clout and pull across the NRL. I don't think that is a factor when you are trying to put together our best backline.

Again, I like luai, I support us buying him. If madden and doueihi continue to play like last night you do not change the team. That is absolutely simple and obvious. This isn't bagging luai, this is looking at the make up of the team and where the pieces fit best. With an organising half and a deeper backline and two players who create space for outside players, I want a hard running player like doueihi outside of them. You can see that mix can work, yeah? Perhaps luai takes doueihi's spot and does it better?

More likely is that neither doueihi or madden can maintain that level and we see more of their limitations cond through. Tannah Boyd is a good example as an organising half. He's got all the skills but just isn't threatening enough as a runner so teams figure him out and he lacks an edge other halves have. As I said, it will be an interesting period seeing how madden goes with it, it's very exciting POTENTIALLY having a capable organising halfback.

I'm not having a go at luai, I think both madden and doueihi combined to play at an elite level that, if sustainable, you do not change.

Mate that was 5 paragraphs of insanity. Have you honestly been sucking back on shards all night ? It reads like a come down conversation at 4 in the morning .
In a perfect world , no injuries and form, the halves will be luai and Latu . Thats the ultimate goal. Eventually with it being Latu and Andruws. Thats where we are heading .
this conversation is insane

 

[tigerman80]

1. Jahream Bula
2. Sunia Turuva
3. Adam Doueihi
4. Taylan May
5. Heamasi Makasini
6. Jerome Luai [C]
7. Jock Madden
8. Alex Twal
9. Apisai Koroisau [C]
10. Terrell May
11. Samuela Fainu
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Latu Fainu

14. Sione Fainu
15. Fonua Pole
16. Royce Hunt
17. Alex Seyfarth

18. Tino Tavana
19. Charlie Murray

Full strength?

Wowwwww , that is our team without doubt that can get us to semis

 

[Odessa]

Not against his resigning.
Players don't play every game for the whole season.
He can adequately fill a lot of gaps.
But he plays best outside a game manager like Madden who positions him deep.
But I agree Benji loves Luai so he will return as the 5/8.
Just that Benji needs to get in Luai's ear to have him stand deeper and allow Madden to control [mostly] the kicking. Free him up to do his own game planning. Reduce his stopping and turning back to the middle. That rarely produces a try.

Even though I don't like the idea that much I can see Adam playing a roaming 13

Jock at 7 Luai at 6 with Twal starting at prop

On the bench

Pole
Latu
Royce
S.Fainu

No more Seyfart

 

[tigerman80]

It was OK. Decent and competent shift from an fairly experienced player. But it wasn't exceptional.

Were we watching the same game? How many kicks found grass? Every bomb gave our chasers time to get there and put pressure on. That was a solid 9/10 kicking performance and something we have not seen anyone do in a tigers jersey in years.

 

[EllisFan]

Wow, it's fantastic, that for a change, we can chat about how we fit a bunch of in form players into a handful of key positions! A great luxury to have! Regarding the halves, we find ouselves in a quandary. All of Luai, Douehi, Madden and Latu Fainu deserve/ have to be in the squad. Douehi and Madden both had outstanding games yesterday, Latu was good off the bench and Luai, our club leader and 1.2 mil man has to come back in. Madden played the perfect half back game yesterday by straightening the attack, kicking beautifully and, generally, steering the team around the park. I'd keep him there. Luai, when he returns, should be 6. He's more the runner and freewheeler and is an excellent foil for Madden. Where it gets tricky is when you analyse Douehi. He is not a half in my opinion and this is only my opinion. I agree with Sirro, great player at the moment but not a halfback. However, he's a big body, can make a break and has some ball skills. If all of the players are to fit in the team, Douehi has to be lock. Twal goes to prop and Latu 14. I think this is the only way it can all work, once Luai comes back. One thing is for sure, if Madden can become be our own version of Adam Reynolds, the team will be so much more organised and cohesive. Jock has 3 more weeks to show he can do it.

Agree with most of what you say but I think AD is better in the backline. Give him a bit of a license to roam at centre like Herbie Farnworth does.

 

[Lestronge]

We were watching the same game? How many kicks found grass? Every bomb gave our chasers time to get there and put pressure on. That was a solid 9/10 kicking performance and something we have not seen anyone do in a tigers jersey in years.

Yep . Thats his elite skill , and if it was 2015 that would be enough . But it’s not . He has no running game , he doesn’t offer much in the way of deception with the ball … it’s obvious where it’s going , and his defence when isolated … well that’s been debated since he was a teenager . I love madden as a first drop , steady the ship , get you around the park .. grinding type half . But you need more strings to your bow .
He’s the the perfect backup half .

 

[stevied]

Agree with most of what you say but I think AD is better in the backline. Give him a bit of a license to roam at centre like Herbie Farnworth does.

Do you think he'll tackle though? He didn't last time he was put there. I like the licence to roam idea. The thing is is that he's a run first player with some ball playing ability. If he could do a Yeo type job, it'd be ideal.

 

[EllisFan]

Yep . Thats his elite skill , and if it was 2015 that would be enough . But it’s not . He has no running game , he doesn’t offer much in the way of deception with the ball … it’s obvious where it’s going , and his defence when isolated … well that’s been debated since he was a teenager . I love madden as a first drop , steady the ship , get you around the park .. grinding type half . But you need more strings to your bow .
He’s the the perfect backup half .

Mate we have phenomenal backs with a lot of points in us. I have little doubt Madden with his skill set is the best 7 to unlock them. Latu may enter that conversation at some stage. AD is a good player but a bit of a hog.

 

[stevied]

Mate we have phenomenal backs with a lot of points in us. I have little doubt Madden with his skill set is the best 7 to unlock them. Latu may enter that conversation at some stage. AD is a good player but a bit of a hog.

I agree completely. Douehi has been an attacking force this year but it doesn't make him a halfback. If we have a 7 who is able to steer the ship, we will be so much better off. We haven't had one for a very long time and it goes part way to explaining our often insipid attack.

 

[stevied]

Wowwwww , that is our team without doubt that can get us to semis

I agree with the halves but will Douehi be able to defend in the centres? If he can tackle while proving as potent with the ball, great solution.

 

[EllisFan]

I agree completely. Douehi has been an attacking force this year but it doesn't make him a halfback. If we have a 7 who is able to steer the ship, we will be so much better off. We haven't had one for a very long time and it goes part way to explaining our often insipid attack.

Yeah mate. Last week AD ran the ball and got tackled every time. Last night he was running free and set up two tries.

I don’t want to live and die by AD’s running game, we need to unlock those out wider.

 

[Chunk]

1. Jahream Bula
2. Sunia Turuva
3. Adam Doueihi
4. Taylan May
5. Heamasi Makasini
6. Jerome Luai [C]
7. Jock Madden
8. Alex Twal
9. Apisai Koroisau [C]
10. Terrell May
11. Samuela Fainu
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Latu Fainu

14. Sione Fainu
15. Fonua Pole
16. Royce Hunt
17. Alex Seyfarth

18. Tino Tavana
19. Charlie Murray

Full strength?

Yeah when things settle down this could work, Madden showed he has a very good kicking game and can really dig into the line, so maybe him at half, we'll have to wait and see.

And I'd have Latu at 14, he can come on when things start to loosen up a bit after assessing how the games going, he could be very effective. Also he's too small in defence to start.

And Twal is killing it at 13 and seems to be okay at first reciever from time to time

 

[Tiger-ferret]

The good things he does are generally running the ball wide of the ruck though. Two clean breaks last night two off the ruck for tries. Yeo creates from second phase through the middle.

If I was coaching I’d probably have to move him to centre but give him a license to get into second receiver and run it if something is on. Hard player to get a read on.

Loved how he just held the ball up and went through to pass…teams will be onto that now now.

 

[Tom Shines]

We obviously get 3 or 4 more weeks to decide but Madden lead the team around well last night. He didn’t play a 6 role imo.

I’m not saying he didn’t play well… just talking about what I think are the realties of trying to squeeze him into this current starting side when everyone is fit…

 

[Cribbertarian]

I think a big part of AD's form this year, his extension, the general morale of the side etc is that he's been backed for the role he wanted in the halves instead of having to train in multiple positions in the offseason because he was going to be moved around all the time.

Ultimately you have to do what's best for the team, but moving him to lock or especially centre when he's been playing so well and has only trained in in a ballplaying role all offseason would be a big call with impacts beyond just what we can jot down on paper.

We've got another three weeks or so of the AD/Madden combination to see how they both go, but if AD keeps playing well I think Madden will just get benched, right call in a vacuum or not.

 

[EllisFan]

I’m not saying he didn’t play well… just talking about what I think are the realties of trying to squeeze him into this current starting side when everyone is fit…

I get the optics of moving AD when he’s been playing a crucial role aren’t great.

But from a footy perspective I think it’s a fairly obvious decision, who the better 7 is.

 

[Tom Shines]

I get the optics of moving AD when he’s been playing a crucial role aren’t great.

But from a footy perspective I think it’s a fairly obvious decision, who the better 7 is.

Move AD where though? To 13 and then have to move Twal ? Two of the better players getting moved just to accommodate Madden at 7?

 

[EllisFan]

Move AD where though? To 13 and then have to move Twal ? Two of the better players getting moved just to accommodate Madden at 7?

I’d put him at centre and encourage Luai to get him early ball. His running game is his strongest attribute.

 

[stevied]

I think a big part of AD's form this year, his extension, the general morale of the side etc is that he's been backed for the role he wanted in the halves instead of having to train in multiple positions in the offseason because he was going to be moved around all the time.

Ultimately you have to do what's best for the team, but moving him to lock or especially centre when he's been playing so well and has only trained in in a ballplaying role all season would be a big call with impacts beyond just what we can jot down on paper.

We've got another three weeks or so of the AD/Madden combination to see how they both go, but if AD keeps playing well I think Madden will just get benched, right call in a vacuum or not.

Good points. There is a fair bit of investment in Douehi as a half. However, teams and coaches evolve. I still maintain a traditional halfback, who can kick, steer and control will make the Tigers better. The question is whether Madden can continue to produce over the longer term, specifically the next 3 weeks.

 

[innsaneink]

IMO Jock will play a Ben Hunt style role off the bench when Luai gets back

Even though I feel like he deserves a starting spot, Doueihi and Luai were heavily invested in the off season to switch up this early in the season

I feel like Madden has really bought in and he is a real team player...i think hed be fine.off the bench...we saw last night his sacrifice to the team...missing his pops funeral.
We have 3 or 4 more games before Luais back therell be bumps and all sorts of things come our way.
Too many people i think looking too far ahead...but wow some of Maddens general.play kicking last night was fantastic