The National Anthem

[Kev]

Certain players would be well advised to get off the soapbox next game and do what they are paid to do. Poor games from them.

 

[cochise]

Certain players would be well advised to get off the soapbox next game and do what they are paid to do. Poor games from them.

Yeah that's why they played poorly! I guess remembering not to song is to exhausting for the aboriginal folk?

 

[Kev]

@cochise let it go. The chip on your shoulder is to heavy to bare.

 

[TIGER]

Well the 4 that made a song n dance about not singing must have forgotten that there was a game to be played after the anthem.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

Most of the players didn't sing it anyway, they rarely do. Payne Haas and Dylan Napa in particular were very tight lipped and straight faced, and I don't think they had anything to do with the protest did they?

 

[cochise]

@Kev You said it mate! As if not singing a song made any difference to their performance!

 

[Abraham]

This was Warren Mundine's post on Twitter yesterday.

“I’m standing for the National Anthem at tonight’s State of Origin. I don’t judge a nation by the worst of its history but by how it overcomes the worst of its history and by its vision for the future. And on that measure I judge Australia well.”

Its a very mature perspective, coming from someone who knows better than most the plight of Aboriginals.

 

[jirskyr]

Certain players would be well advised to get off the soapbox next game and do what they are paid to do. Poor games from them.

Why shouldn't footballers or anyone else use their public position to also elaborate on their views, so long as those views are non-discriminatory? Footballers are people too - opinions, values, families, concerns etc.

If you only allow soapboxing or public commentary to those that are "paid for it" - then the only people we'd ever hear from would be politicians and public servants.

I would anyway say that Cody Walker has been mostly avoiding the soapbox rather than preaching from it - he said he'd not sing the anthem and they asked him why, he just said it doesn't represent him and it's his opinion only. Far far cry from a "soapbox".

 

[jirskyr]

@formerguest Great post mate! People keep saying that indigenous people are playing the victim card over events from 200 years ago. I don't understand how people don't get that these things happened much more recent than that!

More than that - people obviously don't understand how the events of 200 years ago still affect modern day.

That's the core of White Privilege and white folks (esp. white men) like myself need to be aware of that. It's not just young Joe White and young Joe Indigenous on equal footing from their birth in 2000, it's the experience of their parents, and their parents' parents etc.

Most white people have a natural advantage in the world - because white people made it that way! White folks have historically attempted to dominate basically every other culture they have come across and in most respects that has been to the ongoing detriment of native populations. Just take a look around, how are Aboriginals faring in 2019 compared to everyone else? What about indigenous South Americans, Native Amerians, the Inuit, African Americans - all disadvantaged.

And it's not just white folks obviously, the Chinese and Japanese also have a terrible history of subjugation of certain native populations, as I am sure also exists in Africa.

It's not your fault that your antecedents behaved in ways that were unjust, but you do benefit from it even if the actions were from several hundred years ago.

So you do need to give a leg-up to Joe Indigenous, because on the whole his people still suffer an inequality based on the actions of the white colonisers who arrived here in 1788. That's not your fault, but it's also not his fault.

 

[cochise]

@formerguest Great post mate! People keep saying that indigenous people are playing the victim card over events from 200 years ago. I don't understand how people don't get that these things happened much more recent than that!

More than that - people obviously don't understand how the events of 200 years ago still affect modern day.

That's the core of White Privilege and white folks (esp. white men) like myself need to be aware of that. It's not just young Joe White and young Joe Indigenous on equal footing from their birth in 2000, it's the experience of their parents, and their parents' parents etc.

Most white people have a natural advantage in the world - because white people made it that way! White folks have historically attempted to dominate basically every other culture they have come across and in most respects that has been to the ongoing detriment of native populations. Just take a look around, how are Aboriginals faring in 2019 compared to everyone else? What about indigenous South Americans, Native Amerians, the Inuit, African Americans in US - all disadvantaged.

It's not your fault that your antecedents behaved in ways that were unjust, but you do benefit from them even if the actions were from several hundred years ago.

So you do need to give a leg-up to Joe Indigenous, because on the whole his people still suffer an inequality based on the actions of the white colonisers who arrived here in 1788 en masse.

For some reason I cannot like this post, but it is spot on!

 

[cktiger]

@jirskyr
White populations dominated because they were more advanced than the native cultures they encountered.. should we blame our ancestors for that?

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr
White populations dominated because they were more advanced than the native cultures they encountered.. should we blame our ancestors for that?

Well firstly I'd say yes technologically and often numerically advanced, but not necessarily advanced in other ways?

And why were they "encountering" native cultures? Because they were expanding, and typically expansion into someone else's territory is known as war.

So if you come across a less technologically advanced culture, there's no issue with that, BUT if you take their stuff simply because you are more technologically advanced, then yeah that's a problem.

But nobody in modern times is to blame for the aggressive expansion of their white heritage. What they do need to do, however, is recognise that there are populations in the world who are disadvantaged, sometimes staggeringly so.

Just look at something as simple as life expectancy. Australian boys born 2010-12 will live an average of 79.7 years compared to 67.9 years in 1960-62. That's a 11.8 year increase in just 50 years.

Aboriginal boys born 2010-12 will live an average of 69.1 years - 10.6 years less than non-indigenous and equivalent to life expectancies from 50 years ago!

Try to imagine growing up as a person, knowing statistically that your heritage disadvantages your expected life span by an average of 10.6 years! Try to imagine the average man in your race/culture not living past 70, when the country average now lives over 80 (80.4).

So ultimately I say - no it's not your fault, but it is your problem. It's like global warming - individually you probably don't cause much environmental impact, but unfortunately for you your ancestors and the other 7+ billion people do cause a big impact. That's not your fault, but environmental damage is your real problem. Actually worse - because it becomes even more your kids' problem.

 

[Coastie_Tiger]

As i mentioned earlier in the thread i couldnt care less who sung and who didnt, but i thought Walker who had a very poor game and got dragged. Put himself under undue media pressure with his statement in his debut game, he's not a veteran so much pressure already why add more. As for the other indigenous blokes i didnt notice if they sung or not because i dont think its a huge issue.
And as much as it pains me to say because it's NZ, they do their anthem right. The start of the anthem in Maori and finishes in english is inclusive of their Indigenous population. I dont even know if something like that would be possible for us as there are so many variations in dialect someone else more knowledgeable would be to confirm about that i guess.
And just to add to discussion i dont think our Anthem is an Anthem as such because i believe an Anthem should include a reference to god, so therefore i think ours is just a national song, which doesnt have a great deal of history behind it anyway.

 

[hodgo]

I agree with alot of sentiments on here and aboriginal people have had it tough. But jesus leave the discussions about expansion into territories etc out of it. Its historically proven that Aboriginal tribes warred with each other and took control of each others lands etc. Its also proven that they dominated and eradicated pygmy tribes in northern Queensland. So why is it so horrible that others have done it to them. I agree that the treatment they received after that was barbaric but hardly the first of its kind people have been warring and conquering throughout human history. Is that right probably not but its one constant unfortunately.

Now there are definite ramifications to that and as a country i believe we are working to rectify those. Will it happen in a year or two, no way. But you cant tell me that there is less racism, and a lot more opportunities for Aboriginal people today then there was 10 years ago, 20 years ago etc. Should we be continually working towards goals to improve aboriginals quality of life and longevity, of course we should, Should we have a significant effort to encourage cultural awareness and incluisivity, of course we should. But at some point people get sick of being told that its there fault and everything they know has to change when we are in a country that is trying. It could be the middle east, parts of Africa or parts of south america.

In the end we keep working towards being a better country for everyone without continuously pointing the finger.

 

[Danny Blanco]

@jirskyr
White populations dominated because they were more advanced than the native cultures they encountered.. should we blame our ancestors for that?

Wow. I suppose you think the white man built the pyramids, invented mathematics and errected the monoliths at Easter island as well lol. I bet you rioted @ Cronulla

 

[TIGER]

The day that everyone realises that nobody owns the land is the day we can all share it.

The indiginous seem to think a patch of this rock that were all clinging to while flying through space is 'theirs'
The notion that any group of people 'own' a piece of this planet is mind boggling to me.

 

[TIGER]

As i mentioned earlier in the thread i couldnt care less who sung and who didnt, but i thought Walker who had a very poor game and got dragged. Put himself under undue media pressure with his statement in his debut game, he's not a veteran so much pressure already why add more. As for the other indigenous blokes i didnt notice if they sung or not because i dont think its a huge issue.
And as much as it pains me to say because it's NZ, they do their anthem right. The start of the anthem in Maori and finishes in english is inclusive of their Indigenous population. I dont even know if something like that would be possible for us as there are so many variations in dialect someone else more knowledgeable would be to confirm about that i guess.
And just to add to discussion i dont think our Anthem is an Anthem as such because i believe an Anthem should include a reference to god, so therefore i think ours is just a national song, which doesnt have a great deal of history behind it anyway.

A reference to God, Huh!! Why?

You realise a God hasn't been proven to exist right?

Why not a reference to Zeus, Odin, Hercules, Buddha, Mithra, Horace, Vishnu, The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I think we should leave superstition out of our national anthem.
The penny drops about the existence of God around the same time we realise Santa isn't real, for others it seems it takes longer.

Walk into any Children's hospital and it's pretty obvious there's no God or at least not one that cares about human beings.

 

[Danny Blanco]

@TIGER @cktiger you 2 are loonies lol

 

[Coastie_Tiger]

As i mentioned earlier in the thread i couldnt care less who sung and who didnt, but i thought Walker who had a very poor game and got dragged. Put himself under undue media pressure with his statement in his debut game, he's not a veteran so much pressure already why add more. As for the other indigenous blokes i didnt notice if they sung or not because i dont think its a huge issue.
And as much as it pains me to say because it's NZ, they do their anthem right. The start of the anthem in Maori and finishes in english is inclusive of their Indigenous population. I dont even know if something like that would be possible for us as there are so many variations in dialect someone else more knowledgeable would be to confirm about that i guess.
And just to add to discussion i dont think our Anthem is an Anthem as such because i believe an Anthem should include a reference to god, so therefore i think ours is just a national song, which doesnt have a great deal of history behind it anyway.

A reference to God, Huh!! Why?

You realise a God hasn't been proven to exist right?

Why not a reference to Zeus, Odin, Hercules, Buddha, Mithra, Horace, Vishnu, The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I think we should leave superstition out of our national anthem.
The penny drops about the existence of God around the same time we realise Santa isn't real, for others it seems it takes longer.

Walk into any Children's hospital and it's pretty obvious there's no God or at least not one that cares about human beings.

Mate i've spent plenty of time in children's hospitals my daughter has had 3 open heart surgeries, im not religious im just stating a fact i heard, we dont have an anthem we have a national song and i could care less who did or didnt sing it. Im not here to debate whether or not god exists. Have you listened to the majority of national anthems around the world have you noticed the reference to god of whatever country where that particular god is the majority?

 

[Danny Blanco]

Ones trying to suppress & rewrite history to his liking, the other one wants away with freedom of religion. You blokes are like a cartoon comic duo, please stop.