The National Anthem

[TheDaBoss]

It was bound to happen imo... this threae is like treading on thin ice

 

[cochise]

@TheDaBoss for the most part people were disagreeing respectfully, especially when you consider the fundamental differences in many people's beliefs on the subject! I wholeheartedly disagree with the opinion of some posters in this thread, but I believe in their right to have their opinion, just as I have the right for my opinion to be that they are wrong.

I've learnt a lot in this thread, I've enjoyed the banter and hope that others can take it the same way. It would be a very boring place if we all agreed on every subject!

 

[Tigerlily]

At the end of the day what he said to other members of this site particularly on Ash Barty discussion (which he basically high jacked last night) was highly inappropriate and offensive.

 

[Guest]

There's no place for racism on this forum. For those who want to try their luck, find another forum.

 

[JD Tiger]

So saying someone is inferior for being a different race is not allowed. Good, shouldn't have to be put up, I totally agree.
But on the other thread, we can discuss why it's okay to believe someone of a different sexual orientation is inferior.

 

[weststigers]

So saying someone is inferior for being a different race is not allowed. Good, shouldn't have to be put up, I totally agree.
But on the other thread, we can discuss why it's okay to believe someone of a different sexual orientation is inferior.

The other thread is about religious freedom of speech...not about one or the other being inferior. Pretty respectful debate over there!

 

[Abraham]

@jirskyr no i do get it ...its just that it doesn't exist in this country in 2019.

If you gave me an example of white privilege we could have discussed it. But you didn't ... just emotive arguments with no substance unfortunately.

 

[cktiger]

Shame old Danny got benched before everyone had a chance to tell him he was a goose.:sweat_smile:

 

[Abraham]

@jirskyr having kids out of wedlock is a disadvantage if you knocked your missus up at 15 .. I'm assuming that isn't the case for you. Refer to the Brookings Institute's research if you're unsure of what I mean.

There is no disadvantage to being a non-Catholic ... in fact Catholics have traditionally been one of the most discriminated groups historically in Australia. So that was a strange comment to throw up out of nowhere.

And finally, I am genuinely happy for you earning 3.2 times the average wage. But I am also disgusted with you. Yes, disgusted. I mean, according to your own song-book you have been the benecifiacry of white privilege. Your success isn't really the result of your hard work, just your skin colour. Poor non whites are living off welfare while your galavanting around the joint profiting off of bigotry.

Way to rub everyone's noses in your privilege.

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr having kids out of wedlock is a disadvantage if you knocked your missus up at 15 .. I'm assuming that isn't the case for you. Refer to the Brookings Institute's research if you're unsure of what I mean.

There is no disadvantage to being a non-Catholic ... in fact Catholics have traditionally been one of the most discriminated groups historically in Australia. So that was a strange comment to throw up out of nowhere.

And finally, I am genuinely happy for you earning 3.2 times the average wage. But I am also disgusted with you. Yes, disgusted. I mean, according to your own song-book you have been the benecifiacry of white privilege. Your success isn't really the result of your hard work, just your skin colour. Poor non whites are living off welfare while your galavanting around the joint profiting off of bigotry.

Way to rub everyone's noses in your privilege.

I don't rub it in mate, I try to acknowledge my white privilege as humbly as possible. But yes, when I have advantages over other folks simply because of my heritage, it's not just about my hard work.

I have worked hard in my lifetime but I already came from a middle-class white family - so I started on a ledge higher than, say, a new immigrant.

An extreme example - James Packer. Is James Packer rich in his own right and did he make more money and have successful business deals without his dad? Sure yes he did. But he always lived life as a billionaire and can make decisions and take risks in the manner of a billionaire. So in that respect, he has a financial privilege over everyone else. Could James Packer have started his gambling empire if he was an Indigenous kid from the country?

And please do inform me when Catholics in Australia have been discriminated against. Don't say 1790 when they were bringing Irish Catholics over in chains because that's Britain not Australia. Anything since 1901 where a Catholic would be discriminated against, considering that for the last 40 years Catholicism has been the single largest religious denomination in Australia. Catholics have prime land for churches, have their own institutionalised selective and expansive schools system and enjoy unparalleled religious freedom.

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr no i do get it ...its just that it doesn't exist in this country in 2019.

If you gave me an example of white privilege we could have discussed it. But you didn't ... just emotive arguments with no substance unfortunately.

No, I did give you many examples. My male ancestors have always been able to vote. I am accepted into any establishment in the country without a second glance. I am never stopped at airports to have my luggage checked - that's global, not just Australia.

I was accepted to a selective school because of my Catholic background. My parents were able to pay for my university education because they themselves were middle-class, as were their parents. As a white male, formerly Catholic, I have always been in the Australian majority - any socioeconomic criteria you care to select I fall right amongst the majority.

So I am telling you, because it's a fact, that white males in Australia have an advantage just for being white males, and that is called privilege. It is evident in my own life, it's evident in politics, in positions of power, of wealth and salary, of life expectancy - all advantageous if you are a white male. Now that's not saying that other folks can't make it, because they can, but on average it's easier for white people in this country.

I don't know how you are surprised by any of this, because Australia was set up by white British Christians anyway, so of course society advantages these people. Mass immigration is such a recent thing in the history of the country. The country is still predominantly white.

 

[Abraham]

@jirskyr This is all nonesense.

We are not going to agree on this, because you are attempting to use historical prejudice as proof that Australians today, in 2019, have an embedded bias against non-whites that prevents them from contributing to and benefiting from the advantages as white people.

The fact you were born into a Catholic, white, middle class family is simply the circumstances you were born into. The fact i was born into a lower-class, middle easter, Catholic family are my circumstances. The fact we have probably ended up in similar social and financial situations is proof positive that there is no 'white privilege' preventing me or any other 'non-white' (gee i hate reducing people the the sum of their skin colour) else from enjoying the same benefits as you or any other white person.

It might have been true decades ago, but its not true now. Its 2019, and no 'white privilege' exists any longer in this country.

 

[Tigerlily]

@jirskyr no i do get it ...its just that it doesn't exist in this country in 2019.

If you gave me an example of white privilege we could have discussed it. But you didn't ... just emotive arguments with no substance unfortunately.

No, I did give you many examples. My male ancestors have always been able to vote. I am accepted into any establishment in the country without a second glance. I am never stopped at airports to have my luggage checked - that's global, not just Australia.

I was accepted to a selective school because of my Catholic background. My parents were able to pay for my university education because they themselves were middle-class, as were their parents. As a white male, formerly Catholic, I have always been in the Australian majority - any socioeconomic criteria you care to select I fall right amongst the majority.

So I am telling you, because it's a fact, that white males in Australia have an advantage just for being white males, and that is called privilege. It is evident in my own life, it's evident in politics, in positions of power, of wealth and salary, of life expectancy - all advantageous if you are a white male. Now that's not saying that other folks can't make it, because they can, but on average it's easier for white people in this country.

I don't know how you are surprised by any of this, because Australia was set up by white British Christians anyway, so of course society advantages these people. Mass immigration is such a recent thing in the history of the country. The country is still predominantly white.

So where does that leave a woman of colour?

 

[jirskyr]

So where does that leave a woman of colour?

Unfortunately one of the most disadvantaged of all.

 

[Papacito]

@jirskyr a lot of people in very senior roles (government and, to a lesser degree, corporations) are there because of the school they went to, family and professional connections.

Even having said that, the correlation is not always clear.

Are people in power because they got a free pass by going to the right schools and knowing the right people? Or do ambitious, power hungry types make sure they go to the right school and know the right people?

Unlike the US, we don't collect ethnicity on our census, so opportunities for systemic discrimination through resources and funding are more or less eliminated.

There are some people in our society that do face some obstacles that are vaguely related to culture (e.g Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in remote communities being unable to purchase specific land due to poor surveying records, outdated land titles, zoning and associated lending headaches). But by the same token, there is nothing preventing these people from purchasing a block of land elsewhere.

"White privilege" is certainly a buzzword at the moment, but the evidence supporting it is falsified pretty easily.

 

[Jock Koss]

@jirskyr a lot of people in very senior roles (government and, to a lesser degree, corporations) are there because of the school they went to, family and professional connections.

Even having said that, the correlation is not always clear.

Are people in power because they got a free pass by going to the right schools and knowing the right people? Or do ambitious, power hungry types make sure they go to the right school and know the right people?

Unlike the US, we don't collect ethnicity on our census, so opportunities for systemic discrimination through resources and funding are more or less eliminated.

There are some people in our society that do face some obstacles that are vaguely related to culture (e.g Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in remote communities being unable to purchase specific land due to poor surveying records, outdated land titles, zoning and associated lending headaches). But by the same token, there is nothing preventing these people from purchasing a block of land elsewhere.

"White privilege" is certainly a buzzword at the moment, but the evidence supporting it is falsified pretty easily.

In this case, it’s not though, so?

 

[Jock Koss]

@jirskyr we’re talking about national anthem though mate - not much disagreement to what you are saying but posit that WE, as the white men who “went to the right schools” or “knew the right people” empower our Natives.

I guess that’s the only thing I’m saying, whereas others on this thread would endanger that right for them to have an equal footing in general quality/ease of life, a ‘level playing field’ as I’d put it and probably have lol... this concept is just kind of mind-boggling that others could even feel so strongly against what’s happening

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr a lot of people in very senior roles (government and, to a lesser degree, corporations) are there because of the school they went to, family and professional connections.

That's the privilege right there!

I can't state it any more clearly any more times. Show me, for instance, the elite school full of aboriginal kids or poor white kids or month-old immigrants who don't speak English as first language.

 

[Papacito]

@jirskyr a lot of people in very senior roles (government and, to a lesser degree, corporations) are there because of the school they went to, family and professional connections.

That's the privilege right there!

I can't state it any more clearly any more times. Show me, for instance, the elite school full of aboriginal kids or poor white kids or month-old immigrants who don't speak English as first language.

This argument is as flimsy as a Darius Boyd tackle.

If you can't speak English, how could you go to an elite school that teaches in English?

A representative portion of Aboriginal kids go to elite schools.

"Poor white kids" suggests you now now think privilege (f it exists) is not defined by skin shade?

 

[Jock Koss]

The portion is negligent. I went to one of these schools and let me tell you many kids are non-English fluent at first, at least and then go on to receive the absolute best resources and assistance from said organisation to result in a disproportionate amount of AUSTRALIAN’s who are actually doing well. Not speaking about refugees at all (just to be clear as I’ve not got a bad word to say for those people). Does not bode well for the future tbh