The Tim Sheens Saga

[tig_prmz]

What about the fact that in 2003 we had spent all our money! I have never been the coaches biggest fan but he has built us a club both on and off the field. There are lots of clubs who have rosters that should win the comp but don't manage to.

good for him and for us. david gallop apparently got the NRL out of crisis in 2000's as well, however he had no vision to move the comp further, and imo that's what tim sheens lacks. we have such an amazing roster, srsly.

 

[tiger4ever]

Fact is it was broken, has been broken several times only to be fixed….yet its made out like its always been OK.

i dont get 100% what you're saying there, but i find that "if it aint broken dont fix it" as an absolute garbage. just coz you're "happy" (happiness is relative in this case) with what's happening doesn't mean it cannot be improved.

true story: i used to get 50% in my chem tests in yr 11, ofc i didnt like it so i started working harder, i got to 70% and everyone including me was happy. then i stopped working for a while and stayed on 70%. then during final yr 12 exams, i knew there was a lot of room for improvement and ended up getting band6 in chem (<90+). imagine if i stopped at 70%

Haha so you put that down to your teacher(the coach) or your own efforts to try and do better.

Amazing roster that sheens assembled

 

[Goose]

He has created systems which see great juniors come ot the club each year, we have a great culture, have run top 4 in consecutive years, have now won 7 on the trot, if ever anyone should be able to feel safe in his job it is Tim Sheens

wat system is that?

Broadly speaking the systems I was referring to are the recruitment, retention and junior development. The link to Keebra High which in effect has Greg Lenton as a talent scout, he has close to the best eye for talent around, our country scholarship program with St Gregs (Matt Groat came directly through that system), plus our recruitment process at junior level, the fact that we have in our system about 15 Aus Schoolboys it is fair to say the program is working.
I dont like to be disrespectful to peoples opinions on here, but since you have had a few cracks at me, Ill make an exception, you clearly have a very limited understanding of the role of the coach and workings of a football club, and it seems you feel his sole purpose is to train athletes and make them better, this is a small part of his role.

The coach of a football team, in conjunction with management is to build a squad, develop channels to produce enough of your own players (if you have to keep importing you end up paying more for each player), create training patterns from the bottom up to physically prepare juniors for the next step (Ball, NYC, NRL)

The coach has to create an environment that keeps everyone happy.

Given Sheens (and the club) have developed a squad that is good enough to be favourites, we are favourites in the NYC, we have finished top 4 in consecutive years and are on a seven game winning streak. He has the support of the players and a very happy playing group.

It is an unrealistic expectation to want to win the comp every year, and furthermore ridiculous to think you can win every week.

As I have said previously Sheens is a real person with a real job, no of us would cop it if our boss sacked us if we performing as well as Sheens is performing,

08-09, there was an argument to sack him, no any more.

 

[tig_prmz]

He has created systems which see great juniors come ot the club each year, we have a great culture, have run top 4 in consecutive years, have now won 7 on the trot, if ever anyone should be able to feel safe in his job it is Tim Sheens

wat system is that?

Broadly speaking the systems I was referring to are the recruitment, retention and junior development. The link to Keebra High which in effect has Greg Lenton as a talent scout, he has close to the best eye for talent around, our country scholarship program with St Gregs (Matt Groat came directly through that system), plus our recruitment process at junior level, the fact that we have in our system about 15 Aus Schoolboys it is fair to say the program is working.
I dont like to be disrespectful to peoples opinions on here, but since you have had a few cracks at me, Ill make an exception, you clearly have a very limited understanding of the role of the coach and workings of a football club, and it seems you feel his sole purpose is to train athletes and make them better, this is a small part of his role.

The coach of a football team, in conjunction with management is to build a squad, develop channels to produce enough of your own players (if you have to keep importing you end up paying more for each player), create training patterns from the bottom up to physically prepare juniors for the next step (Ball, NYC, NRL)

The coach has to create an environment that keeps everyone happy.

Given Sheens (and the club) have developed a squad that is good enough to be favourites, we are favourites in the NYC, we have finished top 4 in consecutive years and are on a seven game winning streak. He has the support of the players and a very happy playing group.

It is an unrealistic expectation to want to win the comp every year, and furthermore ridiculous to think you can win every week.

As I have said previously Sheens is a real person with a real job, no of us would cop it if our boss sacked us if we performing as well as Sheens is performing,

08-09, there was an argument to sack him, no any more.

we don't have specialists in those positions to do that? again, you are telling me about sheens' youth development, bringing in of juniors etc. we have managers, recruitment officers, NYC managers etc. to do that. either sheens is forgetting what his MAIN job is or you are giving him credit from the things he didn't do.

 

[Citizen_Tiger]

I love reading these sack sheens threads, because he just proves those doubters wrong, and of all the threads this issue polarises the most.
Personally i think sheens' job is to coach a **winning** team, develop juniors cut dead wood and bring in better players. Currently thats exactly what he is doing.
Why he should go while he is succeeding eludes me it makes no sense. If he left tomorrow, he would be coaching another team very soon, (he would do wonders with the roosters or canberra, for example) which could be very bad for us. I'm all for Sheens retiring as long as he doesn't coach anyone else.
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look at the past records, and dont give me rubbish about winning the last 7 or top 4 in 2 years. if u wanna look, look from 2003.

Grow the F up!!!

You've watched the game for all of 7 years in total!

The sum total of your experience is nil - the sum total of your knowledge about the structures and vagaries of the game and the art of coaching at the professional level is less than nil!!

All you're preaching (along with the others) is change for changes sake!!!

That never gets you far in life junior - so stop spreading your vacuous, ignorant & juvenile crap because all you want is your team to win so you can be the big man at school with your GPS mates in boaters, ties and blazers!!

Most of us want to see enduring success - and if we get top 4 again this year - that is what Tim has delivered us for three straight years!!!

Try watching your team lose two successive GFs before being an antagonist for change at a well-run club!!

If you want to give the kid a spray, why the need to make it so personal? What do his GPS mates have to do with it? He's allowed to express his opinion and while I disagree with it, he's at least communicating it in a decent manner. You on the other hand are taking the opportunity to comment on something that has nothing to do with the subject matter and more to do with your own anguished belief systems

 

[Goose]

He has created systems which see great juniors come ot the club each year, we have a great culture, have run top 4 in consecutive years, have now won 7 on the trot, if ever anyone should be able to feel safe in his job it is Tim Sheens

wat system is that?

Broadly speaking the systems I was referring to are the recruitment, retention and junior development. The link to Keebra High which in effect has Greg Lenton as a talent scout, he has close to the best eye for talent around, our country scholarship program with St Gregs (Matt Groat came directly through that system), plus our recruitment process at junior level, the fact that we have in our system about 15 Aus Schoolboys it is fair to say the program is working.
I dont like to be disrespectful to peoples opinions on here, but since you have had a few cracks at me, Ill make an exception, you clearly have a very limited understanding of the role of the coach and workings of a football club, and it seems you feel his sole purpose is to train athletes and make them better, this is a small part of his role.

The coach of a football team, in conjunction with management is to build a squad, develop channels to produce enough of your own players (if you have to keep importing you end up paying more for each player), create training patterns from the bottom up to physically prepare juniors for the next step (Ball, NYC, NRL)

The coach has to create an environment that keeps everyone happy.

Given Sheens (and the club) have developed a squad that is good enough to be favourites, we are favourites in the NYC, we have finished top 4 in consecutive years and are on a seven game winning streak. He has the support of the players and a very happy playing group.

It is an unrealistic expectation to want to win the comp every year, and furthermore ridiculous to think you can win every week.

As I have said previously Sheens is a real person with a real job, no of us would cop it if our boss sacked us if we performing as well as Sheens is performing,

08-09, there was an argument to sack him, no any more.

we don't have specialists in those positions to do that? again, you are telling me about sheens' youth development, bringing in of juniors etc. we have managers, recruitment officers, NYC managers etc. to do that. either sheens is forgetting what his MAIN job is or you are giving him credit from the things he didn't do.

building the squad is his main job! Yes he does have support staff, who all have roles, but essentially he (like every coach in the NRL) plays a huge role in all the junior development, recruitment, retention plus a number of other tasks.
There is alot more to being a first grade coach than simply "developing athletes"

 

[Furious1]

It will be interesting to revisit this thread at the end of the year. I certainly have been critical of Sheens bench selections in the past, but i have never been convinced by anyone available to coach the side that they could do a better job. I'm quite happy and was relieved that he signed on again last year.
Like others have stated, the role of the head coach is not limited to just what the 1st grade team does on game day on the field. Whilst other people may have recruitment roles, trainer etc, at the end of the day, he is the boss and manager of what is being done.
The Tigers have been notoriously slow starters over the last couple of years, and this year was no exception, but it is a looooong season where anything can and often does happen. I would love Wests to come out every week and win, right from round 1, but it doesn't seem to suit Sheens style, and in the old days it didn't suit Warren Ryans either. Both men seem to have a philosophy of the Melbourne Cup winner very rarely leads the race past the post for the first time. So it seems with us, no point in being the May premiers if you're nowhere to be seen in September.

I like we can all get on here and have our opinions, disagree with each other and sometimes get heated. All it says to me is we are ALL passionate about our team.
Make no mistake, there is no saga here, our coach is the only coach who will have our side in the top four 3 years in a row. Will they win it from there? Well, who knows, it won't be lost because we were outcoached that is for sure.

 

[tig_prmz]

again, that is not sheens' main job. MAIN MAIN MAIN MAIN MAIN. <–- guess what the keyword there is

 

[Guest]

A couple of posts in this thread have been deleted due to personal attacks being made. This thread has had some decent debate in it up until this point, please don't ruin it by degrading one another - it's counter-productive and not a particularly endearing trait for one to show on here.

 

[Goose]

again, that is not sheens' main job. MAIN MAIN MAIN MAIN MAIN. <–- guess what the keyword there is

not my style to say this, but since you are being a tool, with your MAIN, MAIN comments (amongst a heap of others), you are clearly clueless to the operations of a football club.
You are so Naive to what his role is, that it is impossible to talk sensibly. His main role involves all the things, Ive talked about. Training athletes is so far from the his MAIN role it is not funny.

As far back as Jack Gibson, in the 80's he said the best coaches are the best recruiters, things are more complicated than that now, but it does not matter how much you train athletes, if you dont have cattle you dont have a good footy team.

I dont care that you dont fully understand what a coach does (there is plenty i dont know much about), but you have banged on with several douchbag comments implying others who have told you some functions of the coach dont know what they are talking about, even tho clearly you have none or very limited exposure to what coaches and football clubs do

 

[TigersAreTerrific]

My thoughts exactly. Why are people calling for Sheens to be sacked or "a change", when we are seven in a row, are the ONLY team to make the top four in the past two years, and are in the top four now? Who cares about 2006-09? We are winning and winning well now. Are we going to sack him based on how we went three years ago?
>
Don't fix something that isn't broken…

My opinion was formed from 07 to 09...and while it lessened during the last two years, that period (06-09) while now gone, was quite a drought.
So opinions do change, but according to some thats a sign of weakness, or chopping/changing, not staying ''true''...whatever the hell that means.
The landscape changes, the screnarios change, the footy changes, the players change, the opposition change...its always changing and evolving...yet some look at others who see change as an opportunity as being somehow unloyal, not a true supporter. Some very smug attitudes suddenly surface.
Its a load of crap.

Fact is it was broken, has been broken several times only to be fixed....yet its made out like its always been OK.

If 07 to 09 was quite a drought, I suppose 10 - 12 qualifies as quite a run! A football team's performance will oscillate around an equilibrium. That is not to say the equilibrium is static, as it is continually moving. At this stage it is tracking upwards. The "broken" and the "fixing" to which you refer is a part of this natural process, of shift from a downturn back towards equilibrium. Why are you dwelling on a dated aspect of a natural cycle?

 

[innsaneink]

Im not dwelling on only that aspect, (though it surfaces from time to time even in good years) ..we always have to hit rock bottom to get cracking.
Poor options that ended our season last year are still occuring today. (not kicking deep in the semi - short drop out 1 min from HT last Fri)

I also believe some of our senior players would improve even further with a fresh change, new ideas and a new coach….I think it'd take their game to a whole new level.

It looks like though they will play their entire NRL careers under Sheens.
Its just something personally I'd like, probably wont happen and wont stop me from supporting the club Ive followed for forty+ years....despite me apparently not ''sticking solid'' for daring to be critical.

 

[tig_prmz]

you keep bringing up his recruitment, development of juniors etc. but i dont get how that is a coach's PRIMARY/MAIN job. how do you know he is doing these things? all that goes on behind the doors, you don't know who exactly is responsible for that.

all i can see is that we have several players who have so much potential, but are still sitting where they were some years ago. i wanna see them rise to their potential which is not happening. to me, that's the coach's MAIN job + to make the entire team perform to the level they can.

atm MOST of our individual players are playing to their potential, but i think everyone here agrees that as a team, we are not even playing 50% to our potential. getting the whole team together instead of players doing their individual thing is the coach's job. i really don't blame any players in the team, they all seem to try their best, idk why it's not working then.

 

[TigersAreTerrific]

Im not dwelling on only that aspect, (though it surfaces from time to time even in good years) ..we always have to hit rock bottom to get cracking.
Poor options that ended our season last year are still occuring today. (not kicking deep in the semi - short drop out 1 min from HT last Fri)

I also believe some of our senior players would improve even further with a fresh change, new ideas and a new coach….I think it'd take their game to a whole new level.

It looks like though they will play their entire NRL careers under Sheens.
Its just something personally I'd like, probably wont happen and wont stop me from supporting the club Ive followed for forty+ years....despite me apparently not ''sticking solid'' for daring to be critical.

Could another coach take Benji to the next level? Do the Wests Tigers want to find out by ditching Sheens? I'm liking what I'm seeing. Every now and then I think Benji is maturing, this is one of those times (despite your valid points). Then again, maybe Benji is just an enigma.

I just don't think it is a gamble worth taking (I am quite conservative though). I understand the temptation, I think it too dangerous though.

 

[Tigersmurf]

Im not dwelling on only that aspect, (though it surfaces from time to time even in good years) ..we always have to hit rock bottom to get cracking.
Poor options that ended our season last year are still occuring today. (not kicking deep in the semi - short drop out 1 min from HT last Fri)

I also believe some of our senior players would improve even further with a fresh change, new ideas and a new coach….I think it'd take their game to a whole new level.

It looks like though they will play their entire NRL careers under Sheens.
Its just something personally I'd like, probably wont happen and wont stop me from supporting the club Ive followed for forty+ years....despite me apparently not ''sticking solid'' for daring to be critical.

Could another coach take Benji to the next level? Do the Wests Tigers want to find out by ditching Sheens? I'm liking what I'm seeing. Every now and then I think Benji is maturing, this is one of those times (despite your valid points). Then again, maybe Benji is just an enigma.

I just don't think it is a gamble worth taking (I am quite conservative though). I understand the temptation, I think it too dangerous though.

I agree with what you both are saying, and I myself have been very critical of Benji and Robbies failure to close down a game. Ink you have raised a couple of perfect examples. I find it endlessly frustrating that we cannot do the basics to control a game and that is why the Canberra win was so satisfying.

But then I thought about it, put myself in Benji's shoes. Imagine if you knew that whenever you touched the footy you could change a game. You can do it, you have done it a thousand times before, so how do you stop yourself from trying? Do you want to coach that out of someone? Do you ever want Ussein Bolt (spelling) not running at full pace in a race?

That is why I am please we signed Anasta. Someone finally decided that Benji won't control a footy game consistently for a full season. Lets stop trying to change him and instead bring someone in that can take that role. I just hope they don't clash.

 

[Properossi]

Im not dwelling on only that aspect, (though it surfaces from time to time even in good years) ..we always have to hit rock bottom to get cracking.
Poor options that ended our season last year are still occuring today. (not kicking deep in the semi - short drop out 1 min from HT last Fri)

I also believe some of our senior players would improve even further with a fresh change, new ideas and a new coach….I think it'd take their game to a whole new level.

It looks like though they will play their entire NRL careers under Sheens.
Its just something personally I'd like, probably wont happen and wont stop me from supporting the club Ive followed for forty+ years....despite me apparently not ''sticking solid'' for daring to be critical.

Could another coach take Benji to the next level? Do the Wests Tigers want to find out by ditching Sheens? I'm liking what I'm seeing. Every now and then I think Benji is maturing, this is one of those times (despite your valid points). Then again, maybe Benji is just an enigma.

I just don't think it is a gamble worth taking (I am quite conservative though). I understand the temptation, I think it too dangerous though.

Other coaches have tried (I think these are bad examples) Kearney and Bennett with not too much success. If another coach was to come in, it would take too long to learn how to coach him and by the time he had started to grasp the idea Benji would be on his way to retirement…..

If it aint broke leave it!

Sheens can have as long as he wants at the Tigers, when it is time to move on he will move sideways for big old Toddy!

 

[trumper]

My major criticism of the Tigers is that they make the same mistakes over and over: periods of sloppy defence, brainless attack and lack of desperation.

It also seems to me that after a horrible start this season, we've started winning games in an atypical fashion - close games where we have defended well off the line and scored with structure and purpose - in short we are not making the same old mistakes we have been for years.

Now there seems to be a rule on this forum that people are not to attack others personally, which is valid. In football parlance "play the ball and not the man".

The problem I see is that people whinge about player X or coach Y, and more often than not they play the man and not the ball.

Tim Sheens' job is to A) train the players to win matches, B) identify problems with the team and fix them at training and C) build an environment at the club that is conducive to further success.

I think people should look at the results rather than the name on the webpage. The Tigers have started to fix long-standing weaknesses and are winning games. That is a change that is more important than any other, and it is ridiculous to ignore the evidence in the name of "regime change".

It's also ridiculous to expect the team to be running at 100% 'potential fulfillment'. Show me anything, anything at all that involves humankind and there will be mistakes, inefficiencies, ignorance, laziness, greed, vanity etc. NOTHING runs at 100% potential.

The point has to be that we as supporters want our team to win and to be improving. The Tigers are doing both. Perhaps some of the opinions here (me included) can learn from this, and improve the level of conversation above base name-calling and low-grade rationale.

 

[senexx]

I love reading these sack sheens threads, because he just proves those doubters wrong, and of all the threads this issue polarises the most.
Personally i think sheens' job is to coach a **winning** team, develop juniors cut dead wood and bring in better players. Currently thats exactly what he is doing.
Why he should go while he is succeeding eludes me it makes no sense. If he left tomorrow, he would be coaching another team very soon, (he would do wonders with the roosters or canberra, for example) which could be very bad for us. I'm all for Sheens retiring as long as he doesn't coach anyone else.
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look at the past records, and dont give me rubbish about winning the last 7 or top 4 in 2 years. if u wanna look, look from 2003.

And for everyone that says ^ this - go watch the movie Eddie with Whoopi Goldberg - it explains everything.

 

[Citizen_Tiger]

you keep bringing up his recruitment, development of juniors etc. but i dont get how that is a coach's PRIMARY/MAIN job. how do you know he is doing these things? all that goes on behind the doors, you don't know who exactly is responsible for that.

all i can see is that we have several players who have so much potential, but are still sitting where they were some years ago. i wanna see them rise to their potential which is not happening. to me, that's the coach's MAIN job + to make the entire team perform to the level they can.

atm MOST of our individual players are playing to their potential, but i think everyone here agrees that as a team, we are not even playing 50% to our potential. getting the whole team together instead of players doing their individual thing is the coach's job. i really don't blame any players in the team, they all seem to try their best, idk why it's not working then.

He's taken the time, twice, to walk you through this, but you insist on being objectionable. I'd say just leave it

 

[senexx]

And I would add as a huge aside Bolt never runs a race at full pace from start to finish - no runner or athlete does