Thread closed?

[4jtigers]

seriously though - why can't NRL 2020 start now, I don't care about the grand final! - it's a long off season :sob:

 

[Tiger_Steve]

seriously though - why can't NRL 2020 start now, I don't care about the grand final! - it's a long off season :sob:

Amen to that brother! Or sister!

 

[Abraham]

@Cultured_Bogan That's Interesting.

I have philosophical objections to Pantheism. I feel it tends to raise more questions than it raises to be honest.

Panentheism i haven't really looked into to be honest with you. I think it kind of supports Monotheism in some aspects, but i really dont grasp the idea too well.

Not to get too personal, and i dont know if i have asked you this before (probably have), but do you consider yourself to be more atheistic or agnostic ?

 

[4jtigers]

seriously though - why can't NRL 2020 start now, I don't care about the grand final! - it's a long off season :sob:


Amen to that brother! Or sister!

brother mate - and this is what happens to all of us in the off season :joy:


 

[fair dinkum]

@fair-dinkum

Do you have a problem reading english? I already said my first post to you was friendly, everything after that is on you.

"*Do you have a problem reading english?*" - no, not a very aggressive or unhinged reply at all.

*"everything after that is on you"* - I guess one isnt responsible for ones own actions. I would have thought there would have been a Christian teaching on that at least, after all they found time to mention incest, genocide and never mix fabrics.

You dont have to get salty if you cant defend your position, its ok, its current year, your position is untenable.

I would have rather at least have had just one intelligible reply stating your position and why, but it appears hyperbole and memes are as good as you can give.

 

[Abraham]

@fair-dinkum I thought our conversation ended on a positive note. Looks like you have a hard-on for me now ... which makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

Honestly, I just want to be friends. Sorry if i gave you the wrong impression.

 

[Geo]

This is why threads such as this get closed..keep going and this will be..

 

[tigerbalm]

Just an observation. Why are all the passive aggressive posters in this thread atheist? Do they teach you at atheist summer camp to be the most miserable people in the room, or is it just a coincidence?

I'd imagine a lot to be honest. OK, ill try just once.

I promise i am not a prophet

Just an acute observer.

It’s not passive, judging by your posts I’d expect there’s lots you miss both in what’s spoken about in this thread and in life in general. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

Look, I get it man and I understand why you would feel attacked. I’m gunna play the hypothetical game and assume a few things...let’s assume you’re 45 years old, have a family who you raise with the same beliefs your parents raised you with. These beliefs become not only the foundation of what makes you, you but also your family. When someone “attacks” those beliefs they’re also attacking your family so you react in this weird sudo aggressive/ arrogant way that we can see in this thread. I get it.

If you start to question things that would be admitting you’ve been wrong, also your family is wrong and you’ve lead them astray. That would be a daunting thought and I don’t envy your position. Then again, the phrase blissfully ignorant was coined for a reason.

 

[rustycage]

This is why threads such as this get closed..keep going and this will be..

No, no....don't stop. I'm enjoying this.

 

[Geo]

This is why threads such as this get closed..keep going and this will be..

No, no....don't stop. I'm enjoying this.

Try LU..you'll love it then..

 

[Abraham]

@tigerbalm

hahahaha.. So you're an amateur Psychologist now?

For the record everything you wrote here is wrong. Honestly, everything. If i wanted to sift through rubbish, i have a bin next to my computer that could entertain me much more.

Get out of here and stop wasting your time and mine.

 

[tigerbalm]

@Abraham

Fair enough, not the first time I’ve been wrong. Good luck.

 

[happy_tiger]

@Cultured_Bogan That's Interesting.

I have philosophical objections to Pantheism. I feel it tends to raise more questions than it raises to be honest.

Panentheism i haven't really looked into to be honest with you. I think it kind of supports Monotheism in some aspects, but i really dont grasp the idea too well.

Not to get too personal, and i dont know if i have asked you this before (probably have), but do you consider yourself to be more atheistic or agnostic ?

Pantheism is that something to do with Iv believing the sun shines out of Nate's ass ......

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

@Cultured_Bogan That's Interesting.

I have philosophical objections to Pantheism. I feel it tends to raise more questions than it raises to be honest.

Panentheism i haven't really looked into to be honest with you. I think it kind of supports Monotheism in some aspects, but i really dont grasp the idea too well.

Not to get too personal, and i dont know if i have asked you this before (probably have), but do you consider yourself to be more atheistic or agnostic ?

Somewhere between the two. While I cannot be 100% certain without proof, I feel it is highly probable that God does not exist, especially at least in the classical sense. When I was younger I was steadfastly atheist but I cannot put forward the same argument missing vital information (knowledge on the origin of life/universe,) otherwise I am taking the same stance on the opposing side of the argument as a young earth creationist.

I honestly think that the closest explanation we will get to any divine explanation of the universe lies with Panentheism, purely because Pantheism takes a naturist view of the divine and I believe does not invoke it as a conscious force that it does not matter if you perceive it to be simply the natural order of things or the action of divinity (i.e. either way it doesn't really matter and it is just a question of perception.)

I certainly reject organised religion though.

 

[fair dinkum]

@fair-dinkum I thought our conversation ended on a positive note. Looks like you have a hard-on for me now ... which makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

Honestly, I just want to be friends. Sorry if i gave you the wrong impression.

ok, ceasefire


Im curious if you can tell me what you believe in and why?



I grew up in Country NSW, in a town of 800 people and in a Church of England household. My parents were not very religious but would celebrate the holidays and would attend Church from time to time. I was made to go to Sunday school every weekend from the age of 6 until i was about 13. By the age of 13 or 14 i came to the conclusion, i thought it was all BS. Various things lead me to that conclusion. I questioned how Adam and Eve fit into everything with Dinosaur fossils etc, Did Eve have it off with her sons or did God just put in extra people and not tell us? Are we all from incest? An older kid told me about slavery and murder splattered all through the bible which i easily found and i couldnt believe what i was reading and what this "Glorious" God, that we sang about every Sunday was condoning and condemning. Most adults i asked couldnt actually agree on what was real and what was a metaphor, i.e was God such a monstrous beast that he really killed everyone on Earth except for Noah and his family, some told me no, its just a story, some told me yes, it 100% happened. They couldnt even agree on basic stuff! It made me cringe even harder when I realised if this God is real, apparently he is so powerful, all seeing etc, then he planned the whole thing in advance. Bloodlust, he created all this and then couldnt wait to destroy all those people. Why did i just so happen to have the same religion as my parents, why are people in the Amazon wrong, why are people in India wrong, they are just doing what their parents did before them, why do i just happen to have the right belief? Lucky me. The final straw came when prepping for my confirmation at 13 I asked my priest some of these questions and he couldnt answer them, he literally said to me that most of the bible is BS, he didnt believe most of it himself and just go along with it as youll keep your mum happy.

Ive read the bible [and various versions] at least 10-20 times and I know it back to front. Ive heard all the arguments for the existence of a God and none have ever struck me of having any validity at all and none have ever not been able to be debunked in a matter of a few sentences. Religion to me comes down to people at best having anecdotal evidence or having faith which is just another world for belief with no evidence. I am an avid contributor/writer on many atheist blogs and websites.

I have an interest in the history of religion, all religion. I've traveled extensively throughout Europe, The Middle East and Asia visiting religious sites all over the globe. I lived in the Middle East for 3 years studying ancient sites from the bible. I spent 18 months experiencing my own religious/spiritual pilgrimage from China through Tibet and into India. I lived in China for 8 years and spent a huge chunk of that time investigating/researching all manner of religious deities/beliefs in China and South East Asia. I am married to a Chinese girl that is a Taoist and was raised in DengFeng which is the city where the Shaolin Temple is located. Her Mother is a hard core Buddhist, her father an animist. Which one is true??? Should my wife believe in the Dao or should she be more enlightened like the Buddha, what about those spirits her Dad believes in, or should it be Judaism or Islam???

Religion is all around me, its been a huge part of my life for decades now, it makes people feel good, great, but to me it was a human invention that was used to fill in the gaps when we were not advanced enough to know the answers. Nothing i have ever seen has lead me to recognize any of them as true. So by default, I am an atheist, ive never seen any reason to accept a religion as the truth.

 

[Newtown]

@fair-dinkum Everybody follows a different track.

 

[jirskyr]

My personal opinion of why God doesn’t actually do this, is that we would then be compelled to worship Him out of fear, rather than as an act of love from our own free-will.

How can you equate worship with love and free will?

Always been one of my issues with religion. If god is so great why does he require worship? And what's the point of creating creatures with free will, that you then compel to worship you.

Do I require worship from my pet dogs or the ants in the backyard, or the bacteria?

True honest love is an equal and two-way street. Love with the abrahamic god is nothing lime equal - he has the capacity to determine your eternal fate and punish you for deeds he deems unworthy.

 

[Abraham]

@jirskyr Don't you have free-will to love God, or to reject Him?

Of course you do.

God hasn’t compelled you to worship him, you have freely followed a specific path that you personally decided upon.

And God doesn't require the type or worship that a tyrant king seeks from his servants. You aren’t required to kill people for Him, or go to war for Him, or crawl around on hands and knees. God just asks that you love Him, and love your neighbours while you’re at it.

If God is real, and really created you, then loving Him is the least any person could do.

But in saying this, He still gives you the ability to reject that relationship if you so wish. That’s perfectly evident, because if He really did compel people there would not be a single non-believer to have ever existed. And if you make the choice to be apart from God, He will respect that choice eternally. You don’t get ‘punished’ for rejecting God, you get that decision respected and your soul will remain separated from God in accordance with your own decisions.

You then ask if you personally should require worship from pets and bacteria. Did you create your pets, or bacteria? Did you make a decision to bring them into physical existence out of love? If you did create them out of love, you would probably prefer them to love you back, I’m guessing. But you didn’t create your pets or bacteria, so why would you expect anything from them. That struck me as kind of a strange thing to say.

I don't think you have a disagreement with God to be honest. I think you have a disagreement with a particular god, with particular qualities, that you have created yourself. I don’t see an resemblance between the God I follow, and the god you have been describing throughout this thread.

Anyway, enjoy your long-weekend.

 

[Harvey]

II Chronicles 21:14-15

"Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day."

That quote should sit on the Wests Tigers site

 

[Abraham]

@fair-dinkum I would love to pick your brain, because there are a number of glaring things from your post which i think you have been led down the garden path on.

But i also realise a football forum isn't the place to do that.

You're a died in the wool atheist, and i don't think a conversation over a forum, with all of its inherent limitations, is going to change that.

Anyway, thanks for the post.