Tigers Deep Dive of the Week

Is there interest in doing a weekly "Deep Dive" to promote focussed discussion between games?

  • Yes, I would be happy develop a topic or two to get the ball rolling

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • Yes, I would be happy to participate but not lead a topic

    Votes: 7 33.3%
  • I am not likely to contribute; however, I would be interested in learning from the discussion

    Votes: 6 28.6%
  • Would prefer to watch paint dry

    Votes: 3 14.3%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
I’m sure I speak for everyone jolls on the great analysis you have done in this thread.
It’s great to read confirmation of my own views with reason and statistics combined but also sometimes an alternate interpretation that makes me think.
Re bula my general opinion is he’s too passive and I haven’t seen him overplay his hand.
 
I’m sure I speak for everyone jolls on the great analysis you have done in this thread.
It’s great to read confirmation of my own views with reason and statistics combined but also sometimes an alternate interpretation that makes me think.
Re bula my general opinion is he’s too passive and I haven’t seen him overplay his hand.
Thats a good description I've been looking for to describe Bula- passive. He has skill but unlike so many of the good / great fullbacks, he doesn't shove it in your face. I think his attitude has to change if he wants to go to next level. We may regret extending him if he doesn't start to get out of his comfort zone.
 
I’m sure I speak for everyone jolls on the great analysis you have done in this thread.
It’s great to read confirmation of my own views with reason and statistics combined but also sometimes an alternate interpretation that makes me think.
Re bula my general opinion is he’s too passive and I haven’t seen him overplay his hand.
I 100% agree that he is too passive, especially in and aroundthe ruck area. Plenty of opportunity for him there.
 
I know @Jolls has long been advocating Douehi to play 13 as has quite a few Wests Tigers fans.
I could never see it working as I was not confident Douehi would embrace it and I was of the opinion that whatever advantage it could provide us in attack would be far outweighed by what we lose in defence.
There is still every chance this may be the case, but I think the continued emergence of Latu Fainu and the rapid rise of Javon Andrews has now surely forced our hand into this being the plan moving forward.
As most know I am not a big fan of Bula and not much has changed, but what I can see is a halves combination of Fainu and Andrews really creating space and utilising Bula’s speed to advantage.
For this to work we will need a 13 who is a running threat with much more speed and attacking flair than what we normally have at 13 and more importantly be able to play confidently as a 1st receiver and provide good crisp service to the halves when required.
IF and at this stage it could be a big IF, but a 13 combination of Doueihi and a switched on and committed Josh Schuster could help transform us from attacking dummies into attacking geniuses.
@Vicious I hear your concern and it is valid. Not only does he need to develop the size and condition to operate in the middle he has to have the mental/heart requirements right to be successful at the top level. My concerns with AD asa player coming into this season were not so much about his ability but his heart; he has faded in and out of games many times. Having said that this year playing as a 7 his effort has been pretty stable.

His output on the other hand has not; I expect that it is a combination of injury and the oppositon working out that his passing game is average. Rush AD and he will run and good inside pressure pushes him sideways. It didnot take too long for teams to workout how to defend him, and concurrently nullify our right edge attack.

AD is a ball runner, not a ball player. We knew this from the experiment with him as a 6. We alos knew, from his time in the centres, that his lateral movement is not up to speed so he is an arm gabber when faced with nimble opposition. However, when presented with the right opportunity he can hit and hit hard. His defensive deficiencies on the edge have been glaringly obvious in recent weeks; the shoulder may be part of it, but the key element is his inability to turn his big frame as quickly as his smaller and more agile opposition.

Stick him in the middle corridor in defence and he doesn't have to make decisions to jam or not to jam, he isn't faced with the same lateral movement issues and with his size, and some conditioning, he could make a good fist of it.

In attack at 13 there are so many options. He can play as a link and push Latu/Javon/Schuster one pss wider, he can be an X/Y threat off May/Pole up the middle, he can play as a second fullback on the opposite side of Bula, he can be the inside ball against the grain off Latu/Javon/KPP/Sam F etc. The key is that we need to develop an attacking style to suit what he brings as a 13, we also need to mirror that in Cup and down the line.

I'm sure that our attack coach isn't as bereft of ideas as the comments on the forum suggest so they should be able to work it out pretty quickly (if they aren't replaced).

We have signed AD into the medium term and he has a set of skills that put him in and around our top 17; but he has proven deficiencies at centre, 6 and 7. At 13 his deficiences become less exploitable; the real question is does he have the heart to survive in the middle as he already has the skills.
 
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2026 Deep Dive 9

Wests Tigers V Adam Doueihi: The Battle of the Narrative Part 1


Before anyone accuses me of doing a backflip, let me get a couple of things out of the way.

I have been critical of AD from the moment this story broke, and I still am. Personally, I think refusing to play the position selected by the coach is a sackable offence. Whether it's lock, centre, hooker or on the sting doesn't really matter. Once a player decides they can negotiate team selection, you've got a problem that's bigger than them.

That's my view and it hasn't changed.

I also need to acknowledge my own bias. I've never been sold on AD as a centre or half due to his lack of consistency, poor lateral movement and below average passing game. I am a fan of his strength and running game. I've said it often enough on here over the last couple of years. I think he's a quality footballer, but I've never thought organising a football side was his greatest strength. So I'm not walking into this analysis wearing an "I Love AD" T-shirt.

With that out of the way...

I've spent the last couple of days reading everything I could find. Not just the headlines, but the different versions of the story, comparing timelines, looking at who was talking and, more importantly, who wasn't.

The more I dug into it, the more I started thinking that many of us, me included, were looking at this the wrong way.

I don't think this was ever really about lock. In fact, I don't even think it was really about football. I think it is a battle about ego, leadership, leverage and reputation.

The timeline doesn't quite add up

The first reports painted a pretty simple picture: AD refuses to play lock, Benji stands his ground, AD walks away, everyone loses their minds.

Then the stories started changing. The media is reporting the relationship between AD and Benji is "unfixable". There are broader concerns about standards inside the football programme. Whether that information came directly from Isaac Moses or simply from people close to AD is something none of us can prove, and I'm not interested in making accusations.

What I am interested in is what those stories achieved.

Instead of the discussion being:

"Player refuses position."

It is now:

"Senior player has finally had enough of deeper issues."

That's a very different conversation.

Is this coincidence?

Whether deliberate or not, the effect was exactly that. The narrative shifted from “player refuses position” to “senior player raises concerns about standards”. That's a far stronger position for AD.

Then came the meeting... This is where it gets interesting. Sitting around the table is: Benji, AD, Pat Richards, SM and Moses.

Forget football for a minute. If this is simply a disagreement over where someone is playing on Saturday afternoon, why is the CEO and Player Manager involved?

Benji should have been able to deal with the football issue; however, once Moses was part of the conversation it was clearly something much bigger.

When the CEO and Player Manager are part of the conversation this is not about football. This is about protecting the club and protecting AD. This isn’t about playing lock, this is about the battle of the narrative. It is about: protecting relationships, protecting reputations, protecting future recruitment. This is CEO/Player Manager territory – it is well beyond Player and Coach.

SM’s carefully worded statement talks about: positivity, productivity, moving forward and the best interests of the club. What is important about this statement is not what is says, but what it doesn’t say.

Notice what wasn't there: no apology, no disciplinary action, no admission anyone got it wrong, no declaration that everything was magically fixed. Just enough to close the door without slamming it.

From a club perspective, I actually think Shaun handled that part very well.

But one thing keeps nagging at me...

The Telegraph reported that AD had agreed to remain with us until the end of the season. That wording really jumped out: AD is contracted until 2029. He doesn't need to "agree" to stay until the end of the season; he's already contracted.

If that detail came from someone present at the meeting, it immediately undermines the purpose of the meeting itself. Regardless of the source, it is a direct backhander aimed at SM and the club. Is it a journo beat up or is Moses overtly signalling with credible deniability? We just don’t know.

Now, before anyone quotes this as fact, let's be careful. There is no public evidence that AD/Moses has leaked this. There is no evidence that AD has requested a release. There is no evidence that we have agreed to one. But there is a difference between evidence and incentives.

That's where I think this gets interesting.
 
Part 2
Follow the incentives


The June 30 transfer deadline has already passed. If AD wanted out immediately, his options are extremely limited. Likewise, why would we release one of our players with only a handful of games left?

There isn't much upside for either side. So what's the best outcome?

Simple.

Get through the season professionally.

Don't make things any uglier.

Let everyone cool off.

Sit down in October and work out whether this relationship can continue. That suits everyone. More importantly, it protects everyone's biggest asset; their reputation.

Reputation for AD is now worth more than football

Every club in the NRL already knows what AD can do. Nobody needs convincing that he can play. What they're assessing now is something completely different. How does he handle conflict? How does he react when he disagrees with a coach? Can he still put the team first?

Those questions will determine his market value every bit as much as his running game.

Likewise, our club has something to protect. If AD comes back, trains hard, plays good footy and everyone behaves professionally for the next six weeks, his value potentially goes up.

So does ours.

If there is a conversation about his future after the season, everyone negotiates from a much better position. That makes a lot more sense than lawyers, breaches of contract and another media circus.

Benji's biggest challenge isn't AD

This is where most commentators, and many on here, have missed the point.

Benji isn't coaching one player. He's coaching thirty.

Actually...

He's coaching the next thirty as well. Every player manager is watching. Every off-contract player is watching. Every kid coming through pathways is watching.

They're not asking whether AD wins. They're asking whether everyone plays by the same rules.

If Benji caves, that becomes the benchmark. If Benji publicly buries AD that becomes the benchmark too. Neither helps recruitment; but, consistency does.

Here's where my military background shapes my thinking

One thing I learnt over 35 years in the Army is that people often confuse leadership with popularity.

They're not the same thing.

Some of the best commanders I served under weren't trying to be everyone's mate. Likewise, I worked with officers and Senior NCOs I didn't agree with.

Sometimes personalities clashed. Sometimes relationships became strained. But the mission always came first. Nobody got to opt out because they weren't getting along; it was always job first.

Professional organisations don't run on friendship. They run on trust, standards and mutual respect. Mission first. Relationship second.

That's exactly where Benji and AD now find themselves.

They don't have to be best mates. They don't even have to particularly like each other. They simply have to do their jobs. Sometimes that's enough.

So where do we go from here?

If I was Benji, I'd make this incredibly boring: no press conferences bar the mandatory ones, no statements other than to confirm that what was said stays in the room, no punishment and no rewards.

If AD is in the best 17... Pick him.

If he's the best option at six...Play him there.

If he's the best option somewhere else...Play him there.

Have the conversation and expect him to do the job. But everyone continues to be judged by the same criteria: preparation, attitude and performance.

Nothing else.

Is winning or sending a message the biggest objective between now and Round 27?

It is clear that the bigger battle is convincing the rugby league world that this club has standards that don't change depending on who the player is.

Players don't just sign because of money. They sign because they believe in the environment. Until the AD saga everyone has been talking about what Benji had created, the atmosphere inside the four walls, and a changed culture. The drop in form has largely been attributed to injuries; but now everyone is asking themselves:

"Can I trust this coach?"

"Can I trust this club?"

"If something goes wrong, how will it be handled?"


That's what we're really being judged on now. This is now a “Battle to win the Narrative”. Really this is now a battle between the CEO and the Player Manager.

One thing that really interests me is that neither side has actually declared victory. Benji hasn't said "I won". AD hasn't said "I won". SM hasn't said "the matter is closed". That tells me both sides understand they still need each other, at least for the next six weeks. That's usually how mature organisations resolve conflict. Not because everyone suddenly agrees, but because everyone recognises the mission is more important than winning the argument.

Final thoughts

I started this deep dive thing thinking AD should probably be out the door.

To be honest, I still think what happened was serious enough that I wouldn't have argued if the club had gone down that path.

But after taking a more objective look, I think who wins between Benji and AD is the wrong issue. For fans and players alike; this is about the club winning the narrative. It is whether our club comes out of this stronger.

Personally, I think there's a way to achieve that.

Draw a line in the sand. Everyone gets back to work. No favourites. No grudges. One standard.

The clubs that build sustained success aren't the ones that never have conflict. They're the ones that know how to deal with it, keep it in-house and move on.

Whether AD is here next year or not almost doesn't matter anymore. The real test is whether, six months from now, players around the competition look at this episode and say, "Wests handled that well." If they do, the club wins. If they don't, nobody really wins; regardless of who was right.
 
Great post, Jolls.

I agree with your sentiment regarding winning the narrative. However, I do worry that the damage might already be done for both Adam and Benji, and the club will be the one that is made to look the fool.

From Adam's perspective, this feels very much like the sort of thing he will spend the rest of his career trying to outrun. I have no doubt that Isaac Moses has taken and will continue to take a hands-on role in managing the messaging moving forward, as Adam's list of potential destinations will shrink with the reputational damage.

For Benji, I don't see how his reputation as a coach will recover from this. On your leadership point, part of Benji's role is to sell the playing group on his plans and vision for the club. Adam spat the dummy, but Benji hasn't sold him on the plan. If the reports are true that Benji backtracked after talking to senior players, then it shows he has even less confidence in his game plans. This is something that will be a major concern for players looking to improve.

Ultimately, I feel Shaun is going to have his hands full keeping both sides of this out of the media, which is what is best for the club. What's best for both Adam and Benji, in my opinion, is going to be trying to win the battle for themselves individually.

I don't want to lose either, as I feel both still have a lot to offer the club, but unless they do as you say we are probably better off with neither.
 
Part 2
Follow the incentives


The June 30 transfer deadline has already passed. If AD wanted out immediately, his options are extremely limited. Likewise, why would we release one of our players with only a handful of games left?

There isn't much upside for either side. So what's the best outcome?

Simple.

Get through the season professionally.

Don't make things any uglier.

Let everyone cool off.

Sit down in October and work out whether this relationship can continue. That suits everyone. More importantly, it protects everyone's biggest asset; their reputation.

Reputation for AD is now worth more than football

Every club in the NRL already knows what AD can do. Nobody needs convincing that he can play. What they're assessing now is something completely different. How does he handle conflict? How does he react when he disagrees with a coach? Can he still put the team first?

Those questions will determine his market value every bit as much as his running game.

Likewise, our club has something to protect. If AD comes back, trains hard, plays good footy and everyone behaves professionally for the next six weeks, his value potentially goes up.

So does ours.

If there is a conversation about his future after the season, everyone negotiates from a much better position. That makes a lot more sense than lawyers, breaches of contract and another media circus.

Benji's biggest challenge isn't AD

This is where most commentators, and many on here, have missed the point.

Benji isn't coaching one player. He's coaching thirty.

Actually...

He's coaching the next thirty as well. Every player manager is watching. Every off-contract player is watching. Every kid coming through pathways is watching.

They're not asking whether AD wins. They're asking whether everyone plays by the same rules.

If Benji caves, that becomes the benchmark. If Benji publicly buries AD that becomes the benchmark too. Neither helps recruitment; but, consistency does.

Here's where my military background shapes my thinking

One thing I learnt over 35 years in the Army is that people often confuse leadership with popularity.

They're not the same thing.

Some of the best commanders I served under weren't trying to be everyone's mate. Likewise, I worked with officers and Senior NCOs I didn't agree with.

Sometimes personalities clashed. Sometimes relationships became strained. But the mission always came first. Nobody got to opt out because they weren't getting along; it was always job first.

Professional organisations don't run on friendship. They run on trust, standards and mutual respect. Mission first. Relationship second.

That's exactly where Benji and AD now find themselves.

They don't have to be best mates. They don't even have to particularly like each other. They simply have to do their jobs. Sometimes that's enough.

So where do we go from here?

If I was Benji, I'd make this incredibly boring: no press conferences bar the mandatory ones, no statements other than to confirm that what was said stays in the room, no punishment and no rewards.

If AD is in the best 17... Pick him.

If he's the best option at six...Play him there.

If he's the best option somewhere else...Play him there.

Have the conversation and expect him to do the job. But everyone continues to be judged by the same criteria: preparation, attitude and performance.

Nothing else.

Is winning or sending a message the biggest objective between now and Round 27?

It is clear that the bigger battle is convincing the rugby league world that this club has standards that don't change depending on who the player is.

Players don't just sign because of money. They sign because they believe in the environment. Until the AD saga everyone has been talking about what Benji had created, the atmosphere inside the four walls, and a changed culture. The drop in form has largely been attributed to injuries; but now everyone is asking themselves:

"Can I trust this coach?"

"Can I trust this club?"

"If something goes wrong, how will it be handled?"


That's what we're really being judged on now. This is now a “Battle to win the Narrative”. Really this is now a battle between the CEO and the Player Manager.

One thing that really interests me is that neither side has actually declared victory. Benji hasn't said "I won". AD hasn't said "I won". SM hasn't said "the matter is closed". That tells me both sides understand they still need each other, at least for the next six weeks. That's usually how mature organisations resolve conflict. Not because everyone suddenly agrees, but because everyone recognises the mission is more important than winning the argument.

Final thoughts

I started this deep dive thing thinking AD should probably be out the door.

To be honest, I still think what happened was serious enough that I wouldn't have argued if the club had gone down that path.

But after taking a more objective look, I think who wins between Benji and AD is the wrong issue. For fans and players alike; this is about the club winning the narrative. It is whether our club comes out of this stronger.

Personally, I think there's a way to achieve that.

Draw a line in the sand. Everyone gets back to work. No favourites. No grudges. One standard.

The clubs that build sustained success aren't the ones that never have conflict. They're the ones that know how to deal with it, keep it in-house and move on.

Whether AD is here next year or not almost doesn't matter anymore. The real test is whether, six months from now, players around the competition look at this episode and say, "Wests handled that well." If they do, the club wins. If they don't, nobody really wins; regardless of who was right.
As always top stuff Jolls.
That’s the mature thing to do, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Benji is pretty calm about it all and does something similar, until he can get rid of him.
I hope Benji picks him at NRL lock again (or reggies lock would be better but that’s probably from the bitter taste left over).
Picking him at NRL lock again is showing that his stance has not changed regardless of tantys and tripe and that he is willing to stick to his guns. Anyway 4pm will be interesting,
 
Unfortunately Moses has no interest in doing anything other than getting AD a better contract. Moses has no interest in keeping everything in house. Moses has enough contacts to spread ‘rumours’ from sources to support AD whether it’s true or not. It’s his proven MO in all recent dealing and why many clubs refuse to deal with him.

The tigers wanted everything kept in the room and immediately speculation is in the media with stories favouring AD

The stories will continue in the media via Moses and for that reason the Tigers should show AD the door immediately.

If Benji selects him anywhere other than 14 (13), the next step will be Moses coach Flanagan will be promoted in the media to take over
 
Great post, Jolls.

I agree with your sentiment regarding winning the narrative. However, I do worry that the damage might already be done for both Adam and Benji, and the club will be the one that is made to look the fool.

From Adam's perspective, this feels very much like the sort of thing he will spend the rest of his career trying to outrun. I have no doubt that Isaac Moses has taken and will continue to take a hands-on role in managing the messaging moving forward, as Adam's list of potential destinations will shrink with the reputational damage.

For Benji, I don't see how his reputation as a coach will recover from this. On your leadership point, part of Benji's role is to sell the playing group on his plans and vision for the club. Adam spat the dummy, but Benji hasn't sold him on the plan. If the reports are true that Benji backtracked after talking to senior players, then it shows he has even less confidence in his game plans. This is something that will be a major concern for players looking to improve.

Ultimately, I feel Shaun is going to have his hands full keeping both sides of this out of the media, which is what is best for the club. What's best for both Adam and Benji, in my opinion, is going to be trying to win the battle for themselves individually.

I don't want to lose either, as I feel both still have a lot to offer the club, but unless they do as you say we are probably better off with neither.
The big issue as I see it is that Benji and Shaun are playing by the rules but Moses is using plausible deniability to muddy the waters. It is a risky game AD is playing because everyone else in clubland will be watching the media and will know what Moses is doing.

If both sides kept quiet there could be a mutually beneficial outcome. I expect, and I trust, that AD gets his just rewards for pulling this stunt and then hiding behind "media stories".

Only time will tell who the winner is.
 

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