Tigers NRL critics have short memories: JT

[ricksen]

I haven't had any issues with our 'effort' or whatever in any of the games other than Saturday. I'm more concerned that the team is largely incompetent on several levels.
In fact, the fact that they're all trying very hard and yet getting nowhere speaks volumes about JT's ability as a coach.

More than anything it speaks massive volumes about the ability of the players, or lack thereof. Sure JT may not be a good coach but the buck stops with the players. Bottom line is that it is a hell of a lot easier to get rid of 1 underperforming coach that 20-something underperforming players hence the coach is almost always the first poor bastard hung out to dry when the proverbial hits the fan.

Yeah - JT is hardly the entire reason we're struggling. The squad is pretty garbage, and that's a larger issue (though JT plays a part in that too).
But of those that we do have, how many have actually improved over the last 18 months? A lot of them have played ~50 NRL games, and still look unsure of their roles at the top level.

The reason it's easier to get rid of the coach rather than 20 players is that appointing the right coach can turn the 20 into serviceable options, or at least improve and get the best out of them.

 

[Russell]

I don't think anyone who supports the Wests Tigers should accept mediocrity, capitulation, sub standard or players not giving their all for their mates and the jumper.

I find it difficult to believe that people cannot see a huge difference between the Storm and Raiders games. Yet they are both losses. I accept one but not the other. People that are saying that it is either a win or nothing need to get into the real world. You can't do more than try your guts out. You also can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

If the NRL was structured like the Premier League we would be a second division club. We have won two and put up fighting performances in all our losses except last week. Is there a reason for this? I am sure there is and most would think that there are no excuses, that is correct. I was at Leichhardt like quite a few of you against the Storm and every player to a man gave everything he had and more - they were strewn all over the field in utter distress and inconsolable at the end of the game.

It is easy to say five days later they should be playing like the Broncos, that the coach should have had them up for it. Half the team are kids and most would not have experienced the deep depression and emptiness that goes with a loss like that.

Most teams have experienced players that are picked every week except for injuries. We have a half a team of youngsters that are still finding their feet in the NRL. Our roster is ok, nothing to write home about - we bought what we could afford - are the lower graders better?, maybe and maybe not. Are there other reasons why they are not getting a go? Cap, training, attitude etc. I don't know and so I will leave it to the coach.

Personally I am happy with what JT has achieved so far and the way the team has been putting in, apart from last week. I am hoping they get back on track again this Thursday. I was hoping we may sneak in for a win but without Grant and Woods it makes it tough. However from my point of view if they again give their all I will be satisfied.

 

[stevetiger]

Nearly won the lottery the other day only one number off

I love this line. JT is the one with the short memory. I wonder if he remembers his plan to fix it all with his structures.

Unlike a bunch of posters on here I just want to win games.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

^Who doesn't want to win games? If they put in and lose then that is life, can't really ask for much more. If they put in and win then that is just a bonus obviously.
Just wanna be able to watch them with pride and at the end of the game be able to say 'my team mightn't be the most talented in the comp but no team tries harder', that would be a satisfying feeling that I can't remember having too often as a supporter of WT.

 

[mctiger]

I'll end up sounding like a JT sympathiser at this rate, but he's right.

The commitment from this team this season, outside of that Canberra game, has been exceptional. For 5 losses in a row I didn't think "they've stopped trying here". Only last weekend. Could be they were just on a bad night, and the talent in this team probably doesn't allow for 'bad nights'.

Fact is- this team is cobbled together with young players, rejects from other teams, and some older guys that probably should have moved on. It's not an ideal collection- YET.

The results are worse this year, but I think they are playing better than last year. And the year before.

Before we sink the ship- we lost to the Storm, Eels, Sharks & Raiders in our 6 losses. All of those teams are in the 8\. Only 1 beat us by more than 2 scores.

The Titans & Knights losses are harder to accept, but again, not totally horrible performances.

I don't expect this team to make the 8\. But I do expect to see gradual improvement. 1 or 2 losses like Canberra can, possibly should, be expected from this team.

But if they turn around tomorrow & put in against Souths I'll be willing to take the Raiders loss for what it was.

I agree with a hell of a lot of what you are saying

But getting beaten 60-6 should not be expected by any side at any stage bar finishing a game with 11 players due to injuries or send offs

I'm not going to check through the history books , but tell me when the last time the Broncos ,Storm ,Cowboys got beaten by 50 with the majority of their name players on the paddock

Its all about mindset , never giving up and pride, something this club struggles with every season

It happens…...

Brisbane Biggest losses
Margin Score Opponent Venue Date
56 0–56 Canberra Raiders Canberra Stadium 1 August, 2009 (Round 21)
46 22–68 Parramatta Eels Parramatta Stadium 2 September, 2007 (Round 25)
46 4–50 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 2 April, 2005 (Round 4)
44 4–48 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 5 June, 2009 (Round 13)
44 0–44 Newcastle Knights EnergyAustralia Stadium 6 July, 2001 (Round 18)
42 6–48 Melbourne Storm ANZ Stadium 21 March, 1999 (Round 3)
40 0–40 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 9 September, 2007 (Qualifying Final)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brisbane_Broncos_records#Biggest_losses

Cowboys had no recent big losses and the last big Melbourne loss was in the grand final (40 - 0)

 

[happy_tiger]

I'll end up sounding like a JT sympathiser at this rate, but he's right.

The commitment from this team this season, outside of that Canberra game, has been exceptional. For 5 losses in a row I didn't think "they've stopped trying here". Only last weekend. Could be they were just on a bad night, and the talent in this team probably doesn't allow for 'bad nights'.

Fact is- this team is cobbled together with young players, rejects from other teams, and some older guys that probably should have moved on. It's not an ideal collection- YET.

The results are worse this year, but I think they are playing better than last year. And the year before.

Before we sink the ship- we lost to the Storm, Eels, Sharks & Raiders in our 6 losses. All of those teams are in the 8\. Only 1 beat us by more than 2 scores.

The Titans & Knights losses are harder to accept, but again, not totally horrible performances.

I don't expect this team to make the 8\. But I do expect to see gradual improvement. 1 or 2 losses like Canberra can, possibly should, be expected from this team.

But if they turn around tomorrow & put in against Souths I'll be willing to take the Raiders loss for what it was.

I agree with a hell of a lot of what you are saying

But getting beaten 60-6 should not be expected by any side at any stage bar finishing a game with 11 players due to injuries or send offs

I'm not going to check through the history books , but tell me when the last time the Broncos ,Storm ,Cowboys got beaten by 50 with the majority of their name players on the paddock

Its all about mindset , never giving up and pride, something this club struggles with every season

It happens…...

Brisbane Biggest losses
Margin Score Opponent Venue Date
56 0–56 Canberra Raiders Canberra Stadium 1 August, 2009 (Round 21)
46 22–68 Parramatta Eels Parramatta Stadium 2 September, 2007 (Round 25)
46 4–50 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 2 April, 2005 (Round 4)
44 4–48 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 5 June, 2009 (Round 13)
44 0–44 Newcastle Knights EnergyAustralia Stadium 6 July, 2001 (Round 18)
42 6–48 Melbourne Storm ANZ Stadium 21 March, 1999 (Round 3)
40 0–40 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 9 September, 2007 (Qualifying Final)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brisbane_Broncos_records#Biggest_losses

Cowboys had no recent big losses and the last big Melbourne loss was in the grand final (40 - 0)

Without seeing line ups for those games it's hard to compare

And having 40 scored on you and having 60 scored on you (which in our case has happened within 16 months of the last occasion 64-6 Cowboys ) is a massive difference

 

[mctiger]

Nearly won the lottery the other day only one number off

I love this line. JT is the one with the short memory. I wonder if he remembers his plan to fix it all with his structures.

Unlike a bunch of posters on here I just want to win games.

Well of course we want to win games but we want effort as well if we lose. Last week people were saying there is no difference between losing by 1 and losing by 50…......until we lose by 50 and then the difference is obvious.

I think it is fair to say that in the games we have lost, aside from Canberra there has been effort. You can build on the close losses. The thrashings are harder and it is about how you bounce back......

For the history buffs, in 2004 we lost two games in a row by 50 after winning the previous game 50-4.

 

[mctiger]

I'll end up sounding like a JT sympathiser at this rate, but he's right.

The commitment from this team this season, outside of that Canberra game, has been exceptional. For 5 losses in a row I didn't think "they've stopped trying here". Only last weekend. Could be they were just on a bad night, and the talent in this team probably doesn't allow for 'bad nights'.

Fact is- this team is cobbled together with young players, rejects from other teams, and some older guys that probably should have moved on. It's not an ideal collection- YET.

The results are worse this year, but I think they are playing better than last year. And the year before.

Before we sink the ship- we lost to the Storm, Eels, Sharks & Raiders in our 6 losses. All of those teams are in the 8\. Only 1 beat us by more than 2 scores.

The Titans & Knights losses are harder to accept, but again, not totally horrible performances.

I don't expect this team to make the 8\. But I do expect to see gradual improvement. 1 or 2 losses like Canberra can, possibly should, be expected from this team.

But if they turn around tomorrow & put in against Souths I'll be willing to take the Raiders loss for what it was.

I agree with a hell of a lot of what you are saying

But getting beaten 60-6 should not be expected by any side at any stage bar finishing a game with 11 players due to injuries or send offs

I'm not going to check through the history books , but tell me when the last time the Broncos ,Storm ,Cowboys got beaten by 50 with the majority of their name players on the paddock

Its all about mindset , never giving up and pride, something this club struggles with every season

It happens…...

Brisbane Biggest losses
Margin Score Opponent Venue Date
56 0–56 Canberra Raiders Canberra Stadium 1 August, 2009 (Round 21)
46 22–68 Parramatta Eels Parramatta Stadium 2 September, 2007 (Round 25)
46 4–50 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 2 April, 2005 (Round 4)
44 4–48 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 5 June, 2009 (Round 13)
44 0–44 Newcastle Knights EnergyAustralia Stadium 6 July, 2001 (Round 18)
42 6–48 Melbourne Storm ANZ Stadium 21 March, 1999 (Round 3)
40 0–40 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 9 September, 2007 (Qualifying Final)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brisbane_Broncos_records#Biggest_losses

Cowboys had no recent big losses and the last big Melbourne loss was in the grand final (40 - 0)

Without seeing line ups for those games it's hard to compare

And having 40 scored on you and having 60 scored on you (which in our case has happened within 16 months of the last occasion 64-6 Cowboys ) is a massive difference

Well if you look at the dates it is reasonable to assume they were probably at full strength. Point is it happens to the best and worst of them.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

Happy…..........losing a Grand Final 40- blot is worse than losing a regular season game 60-6 I would say. Especially comparing the difference in rosters between WT 2016 and the Storm 2008.
I was down in the dumps this week after last Saturdays embarrassment, but being reminded of the Storm getting violated in the '08 Grand Final has brightened my day immeasurably!

 

[happy_tiger]

I agree with a hell of a lot of what you are saying

But getting beaten 60-6 should not be expected by any side at any stage bar finishing a game with 11 players due to injuries or send offs

I'm not going to check through the history books , but tell me when the last time the Broncos ,Storm ,Cowboys got beaten by 50 with the majority of their name players on the paddock

Its all about mindset , never giving up and pride, something this club struggles with every season

It happens…...

Brisbane Biggest losses
Margin Score Opponent Venue Date
56 0–56 Canberra Raiders Canberra Stadium 1 August, 2009 (Round 21)
46 22–68 Parramatta Eels Parramatta Stadium 2 September, 2007 (Round 25)
46 4–50 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 2 April, 2005 (Round 4)
44 4–48 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 5 June, 2009 (Round 13)
44 0–44 Newcastle Knights EnergyAustralia Stadium 6 July, 2001 (Round 18)
42 6–48 Melbourne Storm ANZ Stadium 21 March, 1999 (Round 3)
40 0–40 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 9 September, 2007 (Qualifying Final)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brisbane_Broncos_records#Biggest_losses

Cowboys had no recent big losses and the last big Melbourne loss was in the grand final (40 - 0)

Without seeing line ups for those games it's hard to compare

And having 40 scored on you and having 60 scored on you (which in our case has happened within 16 months of the last occasion 64-6 Cowboys ) is a massive difference

Well if you look at the dates it is reasonable to assume they were probably at full strength. Point is it happens to the best and worst of them.

Brisbane were missing Karmichael Hunt ,Israel Folau ,Peter Wallace , Sam Thaiday ,PJ Marsh and Josh McGuire

Might explain why

 

[happy_tiger]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Brisbane_Broncos_season#Squad

 

[happy_tiger]

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/nrl-2009/round-21/summary.html

 

[happy_tiger]

That the 2009 Broncos roster and the team that faced Canberra

 

[happy_tiger]

Happy…..........losing a Grand Final 40- blot is worse than losing a regular season game 60-6 I would say. Especially comparing the difference in rosters between WT 2016 and the Storm 2008.
I was down in the dumps this week after last Saturdays embarrassment, but being reminded of the Storm getting violated in the '08 Grand Final has brightened my day immeasurably!

No Cameron Smith

Bet that score line differs greatly if he plays FTB

Best player in the game for many years

 

[eyewonder]

jason taylor is dancing as fast as he can.

i dont place any credence in the things he says.

i hope for everyones sake they can get a win up.

 

[mctiger]

It happens…...

Brisbane Biggest losses
Margin Score Opponent Venue Date
56 0–56 Canberra Raiders Canberra Stadium 1 August, 2009 (Round 21)
46 22–68 Parramatta Eels Parramatta Stadium 2 September, 2007 (Round 25)
46 4–50 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 2 April, 2005 (Round 4)
44 4–48 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 5 June, 2009 (Round 13)
44 0–44 Newcastle Knights EnergyAustralia Stadium 6 July, 2001 (Round 18)
42 6–48 Melbourne Storm ANZ Stadium 21 March, 1999 (Round 3)
40 0–40 Melbourne Storm Olympic Park 9 September, 2007 (Qualifying Final)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brisbane_Broncos_records#Biggest_losses

Cowboys had no recent big losses and the last big Melbourne loss was in the grand final (40 - 0)

Without seeing line ups for those games it's hard to compare

And having 40 scored on you and having 60 scored on you (which in our case has happened within 16 months of the last occasion 64-6 Cowboys ) is a massive difference

Well if you look at the dates it is reasonable to assume they were probably at full strength. Point is it happens to the best and worst of them.

Brisbane were missing Karmichael Hunt ,Israel Folau ,Peter Wallace , Sam Thaiday ,PJ Marsh and Josh McGuire

Might explain why

Firstly it is good to see you do know how to look these things up :slight_smile: In terms of the playing roster Hunt, Folau and Thaiday is fair enough. The others??? Plus we were missing Woods and Simona, Halatau was injured early and Grant was playing hurt. All teams have excuses but it still happens.

 

[supercoach]

Taylor is talking like a bloke who knows the end is near

 

[foreverbalmain]

NO short memory here.
Three weeks ago we lost to a crap team in Newcastle.
Two weeks ago we dominated the storm and STILL found a way to lose.
Last week was back to normal transmission.

This week will determine everything. We play a team who are 1-5 in the same period that we are 0-6\. It'll probably be a close loss and it'll be such an improved performance that it'll cover over the cracks again

 

[ricksen]

^Who doesn't want to win games? If they put in and lose then that is life, can't really ask for much more. If they put in and win then that is just a bonus obviously.
Just wanna be able to watch them with pride and at the end of the game be able to say 'my team mightn't be the most talented in the comp but no team tries harder', that would be a satisfying feeling that I can't remember having too often as a supporter of WT.

They're a professional sporting organisation - trying hard is a given. If that was the only metric to measure the club's success, they'd be better off in getting 17 blokes off the hill at Leichhardt every Sunday, and saving their money.
The Melbourne game wasn't a great performance by any stretch, but because Melbourne were equally poor and we pushed it to ET, it appears that's all fine and dandy. One such game every now and then among good performances would be fine, but it's become the norm rather than the exception, and club management seems to be fine with it.
Accepting repeated losses because they featured 'great character' sounds a lot like accepting mediocrity to me, and the club will never get anywhere whilst doing so.

 

[Snake]

Taylor is talking like a bloke who knows the end is near

Laughing and joking on the training paddock the other day you could be right ..maybe a full pay out and the thought of getting out of the place soon has his spirits high.If it was going to happen it would be this week to allow a coach a couple of weeks to rearrange the deck chairs so to speak .The tell all Bio should be interesting reading that he will be paid for by one of the papers.