Todd Greenberg threatens to take NRL grand final interstate if Labor abandons stadium rebuildNRL CEO Todd Greenberg has

[gallagher]

It gives the NRL to negotiate the MOU. Leave Allianz at it is and get homebush rebuilt.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

If Labor wins the next State election, Greenburg potentially alienates a large proportion of the rugby league base if he carries out his threat. With near 60% support to not spend a further cent on stadiums, Daley is on a winner and knows it (so does Greenburg).

 

[Snake]

If Labor wins the next State election, Greenburg potentially alienates a large proportion of the rugby league base if he carries out his threat. With near 60% support to not spend a further cent on stadiums, Daley is on a winner and knows it (so does Greenburg).

Daley should seak out the advise of many of the previous Labor government politicians they knew the right way to spend and manipulate the tax paying publics purse …he can see many of them in one day at the Silverwater correctional facility .

 

[Pawsandclaws]

If Labor wins the next State election, Greenburg potentially alienates a large proportion of the rugby league base if he carries out his threat. With near 60% support to not spend a further cent on stadiums, Daley is on a winner and knows it (so does Greenburg).

Daley should seak out the advise of many of the previous Labor government politicians they knew the right way to spend and manipulate the tax paying publics purse …he can see many of them in one day at the Silverwater correctional facility .

I believe a near 60% view of those surveyed consider there are higher priority areas in which to spend taxpayer dollars. Take a walk through the paediatric oncology ward at POW Hospital to understand where this money could be better spent. The matter of corruption among politicians is a separate issue outside of this discussion.

 

[gallagher]

If Labor wins the next State election, Greenburg potentially alienates a large proportion of the rugby league base if he carries out his threat. With near 60% support to not spend a further cent on stadiums, Daley is on a winner and knows it (so does Greenburg).

Would it really alienate the fan base though? Over 3mill watch it on the tv and only 65k at the ground. I think its a bit of a risk for a premier.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

The sooner Greenburg the hemorrhoid is surgically removed from the bum of our great game the better. Incompetent doesn't even begin to describe the insipid, spineless parasite that bloke is.
An NRL GF held in Adelaide in front of 15000 semi-disinterested people would really be a showcase :unamused: Please disappear you goose.

 

[steve-o]

It gives the NRL to negotiate the MOU. **Leave Allianz at it is and get homebush rebuilt.**

I’ll have some of this. No need to knock down and rebuild Allianz, particularly from a rugby league perspective given the limited use

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

I always thought the Olympic stadium seats should have build on giant casters with many divisions so they could be towed around into any configuration - even have a horse race track around the outside.

 

[jirskyr]

I always thought the Olympic stadium seats should have build on giant casters with many divisions so they could be towed around into any configuration - even have a horse race track around the outside.

Funnily enough it did have. The seats have been fixed since they removed the side wings (behind the goal posts) and attached the side roof after the Olympics.

The issue is that in the current configuration, the seats cannot get any closer to the field, casters or no. And seeing as no sports regularly use ANZ apart from league, union and soccer, they are planning to abandon the capability for oval configurations (AFL and cricket).

 

[jirskyr]

The sooner Greenburg the hemorrhoid is surgically removed from the bum of our great game the better. Incompetent doesn't even begin to describe the insipid, spineless parasite that bloke is.
An NRL GF held in Adelaide in front of 15000 semi-disinterested people would really be a showcase :unamused: Please disappear you goose.

You are being facetious, they would be thinking sell-outs at MCG or Suncorp, not Adelaide. Maybe Auckland one day.

I would bet my bottom dollar, if the GF ever did move, that the QLD government would do everything in their power to get the first non-Sydney GF in Brisbane, though the NRL might prefer the turnover from a capacity MCG.

 

[jirskyr]

If Labor wins the next State election, Greenburg potentially alienates a large proportion of the rugby league base if he carries out his threat. With near 60% support to not spend a further cent on stadiums, Daley is on a winner and knows it (so does Greenburg).

Daley should seak out the advise of many of the previous Labor government politicians they knew the right way to spend and manipulate the tax paying publics purse …he can see many of them in one day at the Silverwater correctional facility .

I believe a near 60% view of those surveyed consider there are higher priority areas in which to spend taxpayer dollars. Take a walk through the paediatric oncology ward at POW Hospital to understand where this money could be better spent. The matter of corruption among politicians is a separate issue outside of this discussion.

58% of a survey of 1557 people. Take all of that with a grain of salt. Surveys and exit polls are potential indicators but dangerous to put much trust in those, as Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and Brexit have proven.

Also take into account that voters were similarly duped by Turnbull's promise to down-cost the NBN with FTN rather than FTP development, but the project still ran massively over budget on his watch and now we have a half-capacity system of fibre and copper connections.

It's an easy sell because many voters don't think ahead, don't think about long-term strategy and investment, they just think about the fact that they'd don't really like sport, so why would they want to spend money on a stadium? Democracy is great, but also, large groups of people can be quite moronic.

See, if you put it to a popular vote, you could expect most of regional NSW to already vote against Stadium rebuilds in Sydney - ~5M people in Sydney and ~8M total in NSW. But you would also expect, if the $1.5B stadium plan is turfed, it's highly likely that Sydney still gets the money somewhere else, rather than some grand regional infrastructure. Or the money goes to some road or power station or something equally unpopular.

And as I noted before, Health system currently gets $25B annually. In fact the State Govt will already be spending $8B on hospital upgrades over the next 4 years. Liverpool Hospital alone is getting a $740M refurbishment, same cost as the planned SFS rebuild.

You have to put it all in context - you can't simply assume that if Labor undoes the Stadium plan that the $1.5B immediately goes to needy families or kids with cancer. The reason the 2018-2019 State budget includes stadium upgrades is because they can afford it, after they've already outlaid for health, roads and education. They don't build stadiums, light rail and metro when the budget is in major deficit, not unless the expediture generates boom jobs or long-term revenues; they are nice to haves and currently the State has a lot of cash available to invest in city-wide projects.

My question to Daley would be - exactly where is the money going, if not to the stadiums. Make it a fair comparison. Let people vote on whether Sydney gets a new stadium or… whatever the alternative is being proposed. But he has no proposal at this time, it's just a cheap play ahead of the election to seize a potential issue of discontent and play out with voters, to be black against the government's white. And I'm not even a Liberal voter and Michael Daley used to be my local member.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Todd Greenburg just received a suppository from the NSW Opposition Leader.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/i-will-not-be-bullied-daley-holds-firm-on-stadiums-policy-20181202-p50jpa.html

Ah yes, but was it one of wisdom?

 

[Snake]

If Labor wins the next State election, Greenburg potentially alienates a large proportion of the rugby league base if he carries out his threat. With near 60% support to not spend a further cent on stadiums, Daley is on a winner and knows it (so does Greenburg).

Daley should seak out the advise of many of the previous Labor government politicians they knew the right way to spend and manipulate the tax paying publics purse …he can see many of them in one day at the Silverwater correctional facility .

I believe a near 60% view of those surveyed consider there are higher priority areas in which to spend taxpayer dollars. Take a walk through the paediatric oncology ward at POW Hospital to understand where this money could be better spent. The matter of corruption among politicians is a separate issue outside of this discussion.

58% of a survey of 1557 people. Take all of that with a grain of salt. Surveys and exit polls are potential indicators but dangerous to put much trust in those, as Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon and Brexit have proven.

Also take into account that voters were similarly duped by Turnbull's promise to down-cost the NBN with FTN rather than FTP development, but the project still ran massively over budget on his watch and now we have a half-capacity system of fibre and copper connections.

It's an easy sell because many voters don't think ahead, don't think about long-term strategy and investment, they just think about the fact that they'd don't really like sport, so why would they want to spend money on a stadium? Democracy is great, but also, large groups of people can be quite moronic.

See, if you put it to a popular vote, you could expect most of regional NSW to already vote against Stadium rebuilds in Sydney - ~5M people in Sydney and ~8M total in NSW. But you would also expect, if the $1.5B stadium plan is turfed, it's highly likely that Sydney still gets the money somewhere else, rather than some grand regional infrastructure. Or the money goes to some road or power station or something equally unpopular.

And as I noted before, Health system currently gets $25B annually. In fact the State Govt will already be spending $8B on hospital upgrades over the next 4 years. Liverpool Hospital alone is getting a $740M refurbishment, same cost as the planned SFS rebuild.

You have to put it all in context - you can't simply assume that if Labor undoes the Stadium plan that the $1.5B immediately goes to needy families or kids with cancer. The reason the 2018-2019 State budget includes stadium upgrades is because they can afford it, after they've already outlaid for health, roads and education. They don't build stadiums, light rail and metro when the budget is in major deficit, not unless the expediture generates boom jobs or long-term revenues; they are nice to haves and currently the State has a lot of cash available to invest in city-wide projects.

My question to Daley would be - exactly where is the money going, if not to the stadiums. Make it a fair comparison. Let people vote on whether Sydney gets a new stadium or… whatever the alternative is being proposed. But he has no proposal at this time, it's just a cheap play ahead of the election to seize a potential issue of discontent and play out with voters, to be black against the government's white. And I'm not even a Liberal voter and Michael Daley used to be my local member.

Great post and it does not matter which way you vote …Daley has not even given it any thought the Stadium issue is just a vote grabbing exercise for dummies that can not put two and two together. I thought that knocking down Alliance was over the top it could surely be renovated as it certainly needs it but ANZ is the crown jewel here should be knock down and become the premium rectangular stadium in the country ..short sightedness and non visionary actions are sadly clouding this debate .. and as above no government in NSW history has spent more on hospitals and schools than the present government. The whole of NSW infrastructure was run into the ground by the previous Labor long term government these are facts not fiction as the post above reflects the figures not about who you vote for .

 

[Yossarian]

It's a less than 20 year old stadium. We should just tear it down and start again every 20 years? The suggestion that health or education is an exact sum funding concept (I.e. that there is x amount of money that needs to be spent and any additional is wasted) is absurd. Just because the government allocates x amount of money for schools, hospitals or roads it doesn't follow than x + 5% isn't beneficial. That the stadium spend is what 5% of the total health spend is irrelevant. It's still $1.5B (assuming this is even accurate) that could be spent elsewhere.
If either the SFS or Homebush were crumbling structures in need of a big spend then fine. But the SFS knock down is only happening because Jones and the SCG trust are pushing it. There was no public outcry, no demand from the tenants.

 

[gallagher]

The NRL should just focus on a new deal with the new govt on homebush.

 

[jirskyr]

It's a less than 20 year old stadium. We should just tear it down and start again every 20 years? The suggestion that health or education is an exact sum funding concept (I.e. that there is x amount of money that needs to be spent and any additional is wasted) is absurd. Just because the government allocates x amount of money for schools, hospitals or roads it doesn't follow than x + 5% isn't beneficial. That the stadium spend is what 5% of the total health spend is irrelevant. It's still $1.5B (assuming this is even accurate) that could be spent elsewhere.
If either the SFS or Homebush were crumbling structures in need of a big spend then fine. But the SFS knock down is only happening because Jones and the SCG trust are pushing it. There was no public outcry, no demand from the tenants.

Average rebuild for stadiums in US is 31 years, so for SFS, yes it's come to rebuild time.

I would only accept comments about "viability" of an aging stadium from experts, so any expert engineers who want to comment, fine, everyone else doesn't know. I am not aware of either facility being a crumbling stadium, and though you are being facetious, obviously once a stadium is crumbling it's far too late.

Personally if I had to vote for one or another, I'd wipe the SFS and put all the money into Homebush, because I don't think it's a priority for a second new rectangular stadium if WSS and Homebush are new and fully operational. I'd push all events to one or the other in the West, despite Central station proximity and the new light rail going past Moore Park.

But on the other hand, I haven't any impact analyses on business and access to Moore Park if you don't have the SFS there. For example businesses like NRL headquarters being there and the normal week-to-week use / occupancy of SFS.

Yes SCG Trust and Alan Jones lobbied for it, so they would be expected to do; doesn't change that the government assessed and implemented it. Similarly NRL and ANZ Trust are hugely in favour of a Homebush refurb, as the AFL was in support of the MCG upgrade a while back.

ANZ, no not old enough yet to justify a knock-down, hence refurbish decision. But the management decision about ANZ isn't about it's age or technology, it's about having an oval stadium built to accommodate an Olympic running track, that has permanent concessions to this format whilst being primarily used by rectangular sports.

What is the primary criticism of ANZ? Why does it not get filled near capacity more often? Some reasons include fans too far from the action and lack of atmosphere. What are the primary positives of places like SFS or Millennium Stadium in Cardiff? Fans close to action and tonnes of atmosphere. For rectangular sports, this is generated in part by by heavily-tiered seating close to the field, plus high enclosure to maximise sound / atmosphere. ANZ currently has neither of these.

So why not refurbish a stadium that is constantly being criticised for lack of specialisation and lack of atmosphere? How is the usage of Homebush going to increase, which is desired by everyone, if it has major deficits in design pretty much agreed by everyone?

 

[Pawsandclaws]

Why not refurbish ANZ? There is finite money with far higher priority areas in which to spend it

If the latest polls are accurate, Gladys is in a bit of strife. Perhaps voters are sick of public assets being flogged off and tolls being imposed on motorways. Could she be exiting at the same time as Shouty and his shower.

 

[jirskyr]

Why not refurbish ANZ? There is finite money with far higher priority areas in which to spend it

Well in that case, knock all the stadiums down. None of them are true necessities. Why even build WSS? Why host the Olympics? Why bid for the soccer World Cup?

Also cancel Melbourne Cup day and other such events, because there are higher priority areas to spend money.

Why build WestConnex? Not absolutely vitally necessary. Total acquisitions, development and operations costs for the Westconnex are estimated to be between 20 and 45 billion - plenty to sprinkle around on schools and hospitals.

Why did they rebuild the ICC at Darling Harbour? That and the surrounding facilities cost $3.4B - and the previous ICC was only as old as the SFS!

Yeah there is finite money, and if you want to take the argument that there is no capacity for non-essential infrastructure, then sure bury it in hospitals etc.

Or you realist that state and federal budgets cover many portfolios and that money can be allocated to more than just education and health.

 

[Yossarian]

It's a less than 20 year old stadium. We should just tear it down and start again every 20 years? The suggestion that health or education is an exact sum funding concept (I.e. that there is x amount of money that needs to be spent and any additional is wasted) is absurd. Just because the government allocates x amount of money for schools, hospitals or roads it doesn't follow than x + 5% isn't beneficial. That the stadium spend is what 5% of the total health spend is irrelevant. It's still $1.5B (assuming this is even accurate) that could be spent elsewhere.
If either the SFS or Homebush were crumbling structures in need of a big spend then fine. But the SFS knock down is only happening because Jones and the SCG trust are pushing it. There was no public outcry, no demand from the tenants.

Average rebuild for stadiums in US is 31 years, so for SFS, yes it's come to rebuild time.

I would only accept comments about "viability" of an aging stadium from experts, so any expert engineers who want to comment, fine, everyone else doesn't know. I am not aware of either facility being a crumbling stadium, and though you are being facetious, obviously once a stadium is crumbling it's far too late.

Personally if I had to vote for one or another, I'd wipe the SFS and put all the money into Homebush, because I don't think it's a priority for a second new rectangular stadium if WSS and Homebush are new and fully operational. I'd push all events to one or the other in the West, despite Central station proximity and the new light rail going past Moore Park.

But on the other hand, I haven't any impact analyses on business and access to Moore Park if you don't have the SFS there. For example businesses like NRL headquarters being there and the normal week-to-week use / occupancy of SFS.

Yes SCG Trust and Alan Jones lobbied for it, so they would be expected to do; doesn't change that the government assessed and implemented it. Similarly NRL and ANZ Trust are hugely in favour of a Homebush refurb, as the AFL was in support of the MCG upgrade a while back.

ANZ, no not old enough yet to justify a knock-down, hence refurbish decision. But the management decision about ANZ isn't about it's age or technology, it's about having an oval stadium built to accommodate an Olympic running track, that has permanent concessions to this format whilst being primarily used by rectangular sports.

What is the primary criticism of ANZ? Why does it not get filled near capacity more often? Some reasons include fans too far from the action and lack of atmosphere. What are the primary positives of places like SFS or Millennium Stadium in Cardiff? Fans close to action and tonnes of atmosphere. For rectangular sports, this is generated in part by by heavily-tiered seating close to the field, plus high enclosure to maximise sound / atmosphere. ANZ currently has neither of these.

So why not refurbish a stadium that is constantly being criticised for lack of specialisation and lack of atmosphere? How is the usage of Homebush going to increase, which is desired by everyone, if it has major deficits in design pretty much agreed by everyone?

America has both competition between cities for franchises and a much higher population. Plus the money an NFL franchise generates is monumental.

We were talking primarily about the SFS. I probably have more sympathy for a revamp or rebuild of Homebush. The SFS knockdown is moronic.

The criticisms of Homebush are valid. Whether a revamp triggers a rise in attendance is not clear. I think the relative low crowds are more reflective of Sydney sporting culture than a boycott over the ground design.

 

[Yossarian]

Why not refurbish ANZ? There is finite money with far higher priority areas in which to spend it

Well in that case, knock all the stadiums down. None of them are true necessities. Why even build WSS? Why host the Olympics? Why bid for the soccer World Cup?

Also cancel Melbourne Cup day and other such events, because there are higher priority areas to spend money.

Why build WestConnex? Not absolutely vitally necessary. Total acquisitions, development and operations costs for the Westconnex are estimated to be between 20 and 45 billion - plenty to sprinkle around on schools and hospitals.

Why did they rebuild the ICC at Darling Harbour? That and the surrounding facilities cost $3.4B - and the previous ICC was only as old as the SFS!

Yeah there is finite money, and if you want to take the argument that there is no capacity for non-essential infrastructure, then sure bury it in hospitals etc.

Or you realist that state and federal budgets cover many portfolios and that money can be allocated to more than just education and health.

Again not a fair comparison. The ICC was perfectly fine structurally but it’s competing with other convention sites globally. It’s not like the All Blacks or the NY Giants are going to base themselves out of Homebush.

I agree you can’t have the mindset that any non essential spending is wasteful but there has to be a reasonable argument to spend money. Homebush maybe. SFS, no.