Tough Times, but Tiger Tim is still the best man for the job

[jadtiger]

One of the problems is many of our supporters HOPE to make the semis each year when in reality it should be EXPECT AND DEMAND that we do.This is a throwback to our Balmain and Magpie days it really isnt acceptable.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

And all those supporters turn up every week. Who are these people?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

In regards to people stating how many times we have made the semi's under Sheens though: if we had made the finals every year but still had only one premiership to show for it - what would we as Tigers fans think? Curious to know.

IMO making the finals means absolutely nothing (apart from increased membership, sponsorship and merchandise which are all benefits), unless you win the comp. Give me 3 out of 10 finals series and one premiership over 10/10 finals appearances and no trophy anyday.

Why can't we have it both ways? Brisbane have missed the finals only twice since 1990 and have won six premierships in that time. If you wanted to draw a long bow, you could feasibly argue that if Melbourne wasn't caught cap cheating, they've only missed the finals twice since 1998 and won the GF three times out of five appearances.

Manly have also proven that it's not impossible to remain competitive at the top level in the salary cap era.

These two clubs merged as a means of immediate survival, long term survival in the NRL now requires on field success. No one wants to pay money to watch a team with a roster like ours underperform and seemingly not care.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

In regards to people stating how many times we have made the semi's under Sheens though: if we had made the finals every year but still had only one premiership to show for it - what would we as Tigers fans think? Curious to know.

IMO making the finals means absolutely nothing (apart from increased membership, sponsorship and merchandise which are all benefits), unless you win the comp. Give me 3 out of 10 finals series and one premiership over 10/10 finals appearances and no trophy anyday.

Why can't we have it both ways? Brisbane have missed the finals only twice since 1990 and have won six premierships in that time. **If you wanted to draw a long bow, you could feasibly argue that if Melbourne wasn't caught cap cheating, they've only missed the finals twice since 1998 and won the GF three times out of five appearances.**Manly have also proven that it's not impossible to remain competitive at the top level in the salary cap era.

These two clubs merged as a means of immediate survival, long term survival in the NRL now requires on field success. No one wants to pay money to watch a team with a roster like ours underperform and seemingly not care.

That is a loooooong bow CB. Melbourne have won 1 premiership in the last 14 years. We have 1 as well.

 

[alex]

He's second to none not only in terms of how he reinvigorates the game, but also the manner in which he keeps up with changes in the game. A great example is how he had the Tigers playing when we won the comp back in 2005\. Now everyone plays that way.

Second to none? How do you know, Benji? You've only ever had Sheens as coach, bar a handful of games for NZ.

And 2005 was 7 years ago. Stop using it as a reference.

If anyone can rebuild the club it's Tim. He's been around coaching for such a long time. Even though we didn't have success this year, I still feel he is the man for the job.

So, we need a rebuild, do we? Sheens was initially brought in to build the club as our first three years were difficult times. I salute Sheens for where he has gotten the club to, but he has done his job already.

The people who say he's grown stale being at the same club for a long time don't see what he does with us - every week at training, Tim pulls out something new. We're practising things that he gives us the confidence to do, like me with flick passes, so that when we're in a game situation, they'll come off.

Well, it's obviously not working. We're still seeing the same crap dished up every week. The only new thing he pulls out at training each week is who will be 5/8.

It was the players' fault. The coach gave us great game plans all season, but our execution let us down. We were way too inconsistent.

So what did the coach do about this? Did he drop players? No. Did he put players on notice? No. If the game plans weren't able to be executed, maybe they weren't the right ones to use?

It just wasn't our year.

We had so many things going for us. A forward pack of internationals plus one gun young prop who had an outstanding season, plus the great form of other guys like Beau and a revelation in Koroibete. It was our year.

We've also got a few new players coming in. I can't wait for Braith Anasta to come over from the Roosters, it will be great. I'd be happy if he played halfback and I can go back to five-eighth. I think that'd suit my game and his. I'd have a bit more room to move and he could do a lot of the organising, which is what he's been doing all his career anyway. His experience in big games will also help us out a lot.

Is this an admission that his move to halfback was, yet again, A FAILURE? I love how Benji says whatever Sheens tells him to. When he was moved to 7, Benji said he's practically been playing first receiver for 3 years. Now he says he wants to play wider and have more room? Hmm.. sounds like some back pedalling to me.

I just want to get on the training field so we get back to where we want to be next year. I know we can be a lot better in 2013 - and I know changing the coach is not the answer

Not the answer? You never know unless you try! Look what happened when Folkes joined the coaching team when Royce moved to the UK. Some new and fresh ideas! Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the different results. Having Sheens direct the team around again will be more of the same old story.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

In regards to people stating how many times we have made the semi's under Sheens though: if we had made the finals every year but still had only one premiership to show for it - what would we as Tigers fans think? Curious to know.

IMO making the finals means absolutely nothing (apart from increased membership, sponsorship and merchandise which are all benefits), unless you win the comp. Give me 3 out of 10 finals series and one premiership over 10/10 finals appearances and no trophy anyday.

Why can't we have it both ways? Brisbane have missed the finals only twice since 1990 and have won six premierships in that time. **If you wanted to draw a long bow, you could feasibly argue that if Melbourne wasn't caught cap cheating, they've only missed the finals twice since 1998 and won the GF three times out of five appearances.**Manly have also proven that it's not impossible to remain competitive at the top level in the salary cap era.

These two clubs merged as a means of immediate survival, long term survival in the NRL now requires on field success. No one wants to pay money to watch a team with a roster like ours underperform and seemingly not care.

That is a loooooong bow CB. Melbourne have won 1 premiership in the last 14 years. We have 1 as well.

Yes, but they've missed the finals only three times. We've only made the finals three times since the JV.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

One of the problems is many of our supporters HOPE to make the semis each year when in reality it should be EXPECT AND DEMAND that we do.This is a throwback to our Balmain and Magpie days it really isnt acceptable.

Um no… Unless you are an owner/director of the product, you have no right to Expect or Demand anything.

When you support a football team, you do support them in the HOPE of winning a premiership. Sadly, success is not guaranteed!

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

One of the problems is many of our supporters HOPE to make the semis each year when in reality it should be EXPECT AND DEMAND that we do.This is a throwback to our Balmain and Magpie days it really isnt acceptable.

Um no… Unless you are an owner/director of the product, you have no right to Expect or Demand anything.

When you support a football team, you do support them in the HOPE of winning a premiership. Sadly, success is not guaranteed!

When you are a customer, you have a right to expect quality, especially when you pay good money for it.

Would you buy a fridge that's only going to work on and off for a period of three years out of ten?

 

[alex]

Would you buy a fridge that's only going to work on and off for a period of three years out of ten?

The broken fridge analogy is quite spot on. Sometimes we're hot, sometimes we're cold.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Did you buy the Wests Tigers? :smiley:

When you are a 'consumer', you can choose to not buy a product if you are not happy with it, but you dont have the right to tell Heinz to change the recipe!

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Did you buy the Wests Tigers? :smiley:

When you are a 'consumer', you can choose to not buy a product if you are not happy with it, but you dont have the right to tell Heinz to change the recipe!

No but you can complain to the right stakeholders and hope that something is done about it. Voting with your wallet also is another way to let them know.

And Watto, you'd know if I bought the Wests Tigers as there'd be a long queue outside Concord Centrelink next dole day :wink:.

 

[innsaneink]

In regards to people stating how many times we have made the semi's under Sheens though: if we had made the finals every year but still had only one premiership to show for it - what would we as Tigers fans think? Curious to know.

IMO making the finals means absolutely nothing (apart from increased membership, sponsorship and merchandise which are all benefits), unless you win the comp. Give me 3 out of 10 finals series and one premiership over 10/10 finals appearances and no trophy anyday.

I loathe this blase mediocre average attitude that pervades the club & its fans.
As much as I hate them….Manly have missed the finals 9 times in their last FORTY SIX years....what weve almost managed in TEN years.

Its called a winning culture for a reason....theyve won 8 premierships since.

You put yourself in the position to win, you get one occasionally.

And people really think weve moved on from Wests/Balmain?????
Im not so sure.

Answer the bloody question…would you prefer that we made the finals every year for the past 10 OR 3/10 and win a premiership? If you had to choose, which one would you prefer?

I'm not sticking up for Sheens, I think he has squeezed the lemon dry here too

Its a pointless question.
It oversimplifies the big picture

There would be a reason we made the semis for a decade straight if it occured, and theres a good reason why we havent
Generally, if you make the semis consistently, you pick up a premiership here & there

 

[Fade_To_Black]

In regards to people stating how many times we have made the semi's under Sheens though: if we had made the finals every year but still had only one premiership to show for it - what would we as Tigers fans think? Curious to know.

IMO making the finals means absolutely nothing (apart from increased membership, sponsorship and merchandise which are all benefits), unless you win the comp. Give me 3 out of 10 finals series and one premiership over 10/10 finals appearances and no trophy anyday.

Why can't we have it both ways? Brisbane have missed the finals only twice since 1990 and have won six premierships in that time. **If you wanted to draw a long bow, you could feasibly argue that if Melbourne wasn't caught cap cheating, they've only missed the finals twice since 1998 and won the GF three times out of five appearances.**Manly have also proven that it's not impossible to remain competitive at the top level in the salary cap era.

These two clubs merged as a means of immediate survival, long term survival in the NRL now requires on field success. No one wants to pay money to watch a team with a roster like ours underperform and seemingly not care.

That is a loooooong bow CB. Melbourne have won 1 premiership in the last 14 years. We have 1 as well.

Yes, but they've missed the finals only three times. We've only made the finals three times since the JV.

I see your point but the way I look at it- the ultimate prize, what they all play the game for and strive to achieve, the total stands at 1 trophy apiece.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

You still haven't addressed how Brisbane have accrued 6 trophies in 20 years and how Manly could possibly win their third trophy in six years. You can still make the finals regularly and win a few premierships for good measure.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

In regards to people stating how many times we have made the semi's under Sheens though: if we had made the finals every year but still had only one premiership to show for it - what would we as Tigers fans think? Curious to know.

IMO making the finals means absolutely nothing (apart from increased membership, sponsorship and merchandise which are all benefits), unless you win the comp. Give me 3 out of 10 finals series and one premiership over 10/10 finals appearances and no trophy anyday.

I loathe this blase mediocre average attitude that pervades the club & its fans.
As much as I hate them….Manly have missed the finals 9 times in their last FORTY SIX years....what weve almost managed in TEN years.

Its called a winning culture for a reason....theyve won 8 premierships since.

You put yourself in the position to win, you get one occasionally.

And people really think weve moved on from Wests/Balmain?????
Im not so sure.

Answer the bloody question…would you prefer that we made the finals every year for the past 10 OR 3/10 and win a premiership? If you had to choose, which one would you prefer?

I'm not sticking up for Sheens, I think he has squeezed the lemon dry here too

Its a pointless question.
It oversimplifies the big picture

There would be a reason we made the semis for a decade straight if it occured, and theres a good reason why we havent
Generally, if you make the semis consistently, you pick up a premiership here & there

Ok, let me put it this way. If WT had made the semis every year since Sheens arrived here,yet didn't win a GF in that time also, would you still be mindlessly banging on about getting rid of him in every thread on this forum? To me the big picture is winning premierships, not making the 8 (and yes, I am aware you have to make the 8 to win the premiership, as some genius pointed out previously).

 

[Fade_To_Black]

You still haven't addressed how Brisbane have accrued 6 trophies in 20 years and how Manly could possibly win their third trophy in six years. You can still make the finals regularly and win a few premierships for good measure.

Well the Bronco's had basically the QLD Origin team for most of those 20 years (that would help).
Manly are a quality team, absolutely. But no team in the comp has been as successful as them recently, it ain't just WT.

 

[innsaneink]

Theres so much more to it than just that

Its the style of play
Positional selections
Bench policys
Reward and accountabilty

etc etc etc

As I said, youre oversimplifying things, but to try to answer your hypothetical…..probably not

I avoid having an opinion on things that havent happened, as I thought one way once before the JV...and discovered in time my thoughts can and do change

 

[Fade_To_Black]

Like I said before, I think Sheens' time to move on has come, he has become stale looking at it from an outsider's point of view.
But he ain't on his own, the players need to accept a fair bit of the blame for our lack of success this year…..too many times they didn't have a go.

 

[innsaneink]

Well….you see how they go under a new head coach, if the same attitude persists you P them off too

 

[Staks]

Sheens lack of finding a halfback over the years has turned the best running 5/8 in the world into a 50% playmaker 50-50 good-bad)… and Benj still defends him!

Also, when did Anasta become a organiser? I thought Pearce has been doing that for years now...