Wests Magpies may become extinct

[stryker]

We finally make the semis after five years in the wilderness and this is the most popular thread on the forum.

Looks like we havent moved forward much at all.

Agreed mate who gives a frog about state cup? It's full of wannbees and couldabeens…. give us back reserve grade and I might give a toss.

 

[alien]

Agreed mate who gives a frog about state cup? It's full of wannbees and couldabeens…. give us back reserve grade and I might give a toss.

What's the difference between NSW Cup and a national Reserve Grade comp? It just means clubs have to pay more money for travel. NRL clubs in NSW are already doing it tough financially which is why most of them choose another club to be their feeder club.

 

[Staks]

So in a time that the battle for Western Sydney as it's peak we should just do away with another senior level rugby league team from the area and limit the progression of rugby league players. Yep makes sense and would fit in nicely with the way the game is currently run.

Costs? Whose costs are they talking about here? Wests Tigers only pay for the players they sign - not like they team had the benefit of these players for any good period of time during the year. Wests Ashfield keeps Wests Magpies afloat - if they want to continue doing so, so be it. Look into it further and the real reason that certain individuals/entities are pushing a merged State cup side is obvious.

 

[Alf_Duguid]

So in a time that the battle for Western Sydney as it's peak we should just do away with another senior level rugby league team from the area and limit the progression of rugby league players. Yep makes sense and would fit in nicely with the way the game is currently run.

Costs? Whose costs are they talking about here? Wests Tigers only pay for the players they sign - not like they team had the benefit of these players for any good period of time during the year. Wests Ashfield keeps Wests Magpies afloat - if they want to continue doing so, so be it. Look into it further and the real reason that certain individuals/entities are pushing a merged State cup side is obvious.

Correct. No doubt the Roosters will be watching with interest. A merged NSW Cup team effectively opens up the whole South West region and we all know the Roosters want to get their stinky hands all over the South West

 

[BeeJay]

So in a time that the battle for Western Sydney as it's peak we should just do away with another senior level rugby league team from the area and limit the progression of rugby league players. Yep makes sense and would fit in nicely with the way the game is currently run.

Costs? Whose costs are they talking about here? Wests Tigers only pay for the players they sign - not like they team had the benefit of these players for any good period of time during the year. Wests Ashfield keeps Wests Magpies afloat - if they want to continue doing so, so be it. Look into it further and the real reason that certain individuals/entities are pushing a merged State cup side is obvious.

Correct. No doubt the Roosters will be watching with interest. A merged NSW Cup team effectively opens up the whole South West region and we all know the Roosters want to get their stinky hands all over the South West

haven't easts recently been given the approval to build a Club of some sort in the Camden area?

 

[Gobbs]

haven't easts recently been given the approval to build a Club of some sort in the Camden area?

Narellan I think you'll find. That's been the case for some years now. And is concerning no doubt about it.

 

[Gobbs]

Agreed mate who gives a frog about state cup? It's full of wannbees and couldabeens…. give us back reserve grade and I might give a toss.

What's the difference between NSW Cup and a national Reserve Grade comp? It just means clubs have to pay more money for travel. NRL clubs in NSW are already doing it tough financially which is why most of them choose another club to be their feeder club.

But at the end of the day, all NRL Clubs have a Second Tier Salary Cap for their 'Fringe' or Reserve Grade players, most that make up the NRL Squad which can be up to 30 odd players in this day and age. These players that aren't required for First Grade, and still getting paid by Wests Tigers, not Ryde-Eastwood, nor Wests Ashfield.

Players who are playing NSW Cup who are not on a NRL Second Tier Contract are obviously paid pittance and this would come from the NSW Cup Salary Cap which would be financially backed by Ryde-Eastwood and Wests Ashfield respectively, although be it, not a great deal of cash which would suggest are a far way off even being considered for First Grade.

So in reality, the NRL Second Tier Cap would be propped up with the impending 'Independent Commission' and would allow a NRL Club to pay their Second Tier players more. A proper Reserve Grade Team, would save Ryde-Eastwood and Wests Ashfield financially in this respect.

 

[magpie_mania]

so in a time that the battle for western sydney as it's peak we should just do away with another senior level rugby league team from the area and limit the progression of rugby league players. Yep makes sense and would fit in nicely with the way the game is currently run.

Costs? Whose costs are they talking about here? Wests tigers only pay for the players they sign - not like they team had the benefit of these players for any good period of time during the year. Wests ashfield keeps wests magpies afloat - if they want to continue doing so, so be it. Look into it further and the real reason that certain individuals/entities are pushing a merged state cup side is obvious.

correct. No doubt the roosters will be watching with interest. A merged nsw cup team effectively opens up the whole south west region and we all know the roosters want to get their stinky hands all over the south west

haven't easts recently been given the approval to build a club of some sort in the camden area?

excellent post and ideas here dont know why we would want to cutback our interest in an extremely fast growing area i think staks is right.

 

[alien]

Agreed mate who gives a frog about state cup? It's full of wannbees and couldabeens…. give us back reserve grade and I might give a toss.

What's the difference between NSW Cup and a national Reserve Grade comp? It just means clubs have to pay more money for travel. NRL clubs in NSW are already doing it tough financially which is why most of them choose another club to be their feeder club.

But at the end of the day, all NRL Clubs have a Second Tier Salary Cap for their 'Fringe' or Reserve Grade players, most that make up the NRL Squad which can be up to 30 odd players in this day and age. These players that aren't required for First Grade, and still getting paid by Wests Tigers, not Ryde-Eastwood, nor Wests Ashfield.

Players who are playing NSW Cup who are not on a NRL Second Tier Contract are obviously paid pittance and this would come from the NSW Cup Salary Cap which would be financially backed by Ryde-Eastwood and Wests Ashfield respectively, although be it, not a great deal of cash which would suggest are a far way off even being considered for First Grade.

So in reality, the NRL Second Tier Cap would be propped up with the impending 'Independent Commission' and would allow a NRL Club to pay their Second Tier players more. A proper Reserve Grade Team, would save Ryde-Eastwood and Wests Ashfield financially in this respect.

So we agree then that the Wests Tigers would have to spend more money if there was to be a Wests Tigers NSW Cup team. It would be even more now if reserve graders start getting paid more. Who says Wests Ashfield needs to be saved financially?

 

[Gobbs]

So we agree then that the Wests Tigers would have to spend more money if there was to be a Wests Tigers NSW Cup team. It would be even more now if reserve graders start getting paid more. Who says Wests Ashfield needs to be saved financially?

No, I don't agree. As they (being Wests Tigers) are currently spending money now on their Second Tier. They wouldn't spend anymore as the players that are currently on 'NSW Cup Contracts' not NRL Contracts are not paid by Wests Tigers and would probably not be required by Wests Tigers either.

As a 'Reserve Grade Wests Tigers team' it would be made up of NRL Contracted players both on First Grade Contracts, Second Tier Contracts that are obviously not required by Coach Sheens in the Top 17 along with a handful U/20's players who are on NYC Contracts. Remembering that the NYC would also have close to a 30 man squad, with outstanding SG Ball players from both Balmain and Western Suburbs Feeder side's filtering through. So the créme of the crop would obviously get a taste of 'Reserve Grade' assisting their development, playing against men and seasoned footballer's then kids.

The cost would not change, nor hinder, nor significiantly impact Wests Tigers, if anything it makes much more sense logisitcally and streamline's the club's development system for player progression through to the Top Grade, closing and bridging the gap of maturity for players who make the transition from U/20's to First Grade. Overall, helping Wests Tigers become a much stronger club, increasing depth and development of their players.

 

[Centaur]

So in a time that the battle for Western Sydney as it's peak we should just do away with another senior level rugby league team from the area and limit the progression of rugby league players. Yep makes sense and would fit in nicely with the way the game is currently run.

Costs? Whose costs are they talking about here? Wests Tigers only pay for the players they sign - not like they team had the benefit of these players for any good period of time during the year. Wests Ashfield keeps Wests Magpies afloat - if they want to continue doing so, so be it. Look into it further and the real reason that certain individuals/entities are pushing a merged State cup side is obvious.

Does Wests Leagues at Campbelltown provide funds to the Wests Magpies? That place would make fairly decent coin.

 

[alien]

So in a time that the battle for Western Sydney as it's peak we should just do away with another senior level rugby league team from the area and limit the progression of rugby league players. Yep makes sense and would fit in nicely with the way the game is currently run.

Costs? Whose costs are they talking about here? Wests Tigers only pay for the players they sign - not like they team had the benefit of these players for any good period of time during the year. Wests Ashfield keeps Wests Magpies afloat - if they want to continue doing so, so be it. Look into it further and the real reason that certain individuals/entities are pushing a merged State cup side is obvious.

Does Wests Leagues at Campbelltown provide funds to the Wests Magpies? That place would make fairly decent coin.

I don't think so. I think they support the juniors in the area.

 

[alien]

So we agree then that the Wests Tigers would have to spend more money if there was to be a Wests Tigers NSW Cup team. It would be even more now if reserve graders start getting paid more. Who says Wests Ashfield needs to be saved financially?

No, I don't agree. As they (being Wests Tigers) are currently spending money now on their Second Tier. They wouldn't spend anymore as the players that are currently on 'NSW Cup Contracts' not NRL Contracts are not paid by Wests Tigers and would probably not be required by Wests Tigers either.

As a 'Reserve Grade Wests Tigers team' it would be made up of NRL Contracted players both on First Grade Contracts, Second Tier Contracts that are obviously not required by Coach Sheens in the Top 17 along with a handful U/20's players who are on NYC Contracts. Remembering that the NYC would also have close to a 30 man squad, with outstanding SG Ball players from both Balmain and Western Suburbs Feeder side's filtering through. So the créme of the crop would obviously get a taste of 'Reserve Grade' assisting their development, playing against men and seasoned footballer's then kids.

The cost would not change, nor hinder, nor significiantly impact Wests Tigers, if anything it makes much more sense logisitcally and streamline's the club's development system for player progression through to the Top Grade, closing and bridging the gap of maturity for players who make the transition from U/20's to First Grade. Overall, helping Wests Tigers become a much stronger club, increasing depth and development of their players.

How many second tier players are Wests Tigers paying for now then?

Having 1 feeder club instead of 2 feeder clubs does not increase depth.

 

[simonthetiger]

So in a time that the battle for Western Sydney as it's peak we should just do away with another senior level rugby league team from the area and limit the progression of rugby league players. Yep makes sense and would fit in nicely with the way the game is currently run.

Costs? Whose costs are they talking about here? Wests Tigers only pay for the players they sign - not like they team had the benefit of these players for any good period of time during the year. Wests Ashfield keeps Wests Magpies afloat - if they want to continue doing so, so be it. Look into it further and the real reason that certain individuals/entities are pushing a merged State cup side is obvious.

Love a good sniper.

Do tell us all the "obvious" reason why this nefarious group are pushing for the merge.

If its soooooo obvious why dont you enlightne us all with your knowledge??

 

[system]

How many second tier players are Wests Tigers paying for now then?

Having 1 feeder club instead of 2 feeder clubs does not increase depth.

It may not increase depth in terms of numbers but if all players in the second tier are training full time and have access to the facilities of the Wests Tigers and also get to train within the Wests Tigers structure it increases practicle depth in that players from that second tier are more capable of being used in the NRL squad.

Anyway this topic seems to be going around in circles and not getting anywhere. This combined with the fact 3 of the sides under the Wests Tigers umbrella are playing finals football means I think I will ignore this from now on and add spice to the off season by coming back to it

 

[Gobbs]

Having 1 feeder club instead of 2 feeder clubs does not increase depth.

How does it not increase depth? It cuts the deadwood, and the top liner's remain. It allows the NRL Contracted players that aren't required to play First Grade in Reserve Grade together. It allows the up and coming youth from the U/20's to play at a higher, more mature level of football, hence strengthening the dynamics of the playing squad. Players then are able to play with the same set structure, game play an d ensures that when called upon for NRL duty, they won't find it daunting nor be overalled by the occassion. From my perspective, that is increasing depth, strength and overall cohension of the club's players. Rather than having them currently segmentated in two various teams playing with other players that aren't good enough to cut the mustard in First Grade and playing to different methods and coaching styles.

 

[Vicious]

Having 1 feeder club instead of 2 feeder clubs does not increase depth.

How does it not increase depth? It cuts the deadwood, and the top liner's remain. It allows the NRL Contracted players that aren't required to play First Grade in Reserve Grade together. It allows the up and coming youth from the U/20's to play at a higher, more mature level of football, hence strengthening the dynamics of the playing squad. Players then are able to play with the same set structure, game play an d ensures that when called upon for NRL duty, they won't find it daunting nor be overalled by the occassion. From my perspective, that is increasing depth, strength and overall cohension of the club's players. Rather than having them currently segmentated in two various teams playing with other players that aren't good enough to cut the mustard in First Grade and playing to different methods and coaching styles.

Cutting the deadwood sounds good in theory, but in reality it puts even more pressure on our recruitment and retention to make the right choices. As we all know, recruitment and retention from all clubs make plenty of bad decisions, we currently have an advantage over all other NRL clubs as having two feeder clubs means we have a bigger talent pool to draw from.
As for having better facilities to train from, our top 25 and in some cases top 30 players do most of their training out of Concord in any case.
There is absolutely no common sense in having one feeder club instead of two if we don`t have to.
Put it this way, i`m an original Magpies fan, but loyalties aside there would not be many of this seasons Magpies team at all that would make the best 17 if you had combine the two sides at the moment.
With more of our U/20`s now ineligible for next seasons Toyota Cup, why not keep as many as we can in our own ranks rather than giving rival NRL`s clubs a better chance of picking up some of our players that could be kept in our own ranks by keeping two feeder clubs. Remembering that many players, in particular forwards can be late bloomers.

Only one word to describe choosing to have one feeder club rather than two = DUMB !!!

 

[alien]

You make some good points Gobbs but if this happens we are going to lose players and not all of them will be dead wood. It wont leave alot of room for players that are too old for the Under 20's next year. That's one advantage we do have.

I also thought that the amount of players that Wests Tigers are currently paying for now including 2nd tier is 30\. If that's true then they would have to pay for another dozen players than what they are now.

 

[alien]

So are the Roosters definately going to build a club in Narellan? I heard from someone they have or want an affiliation with Narellan Jets? Maybe they will take some of our juniors? I can see them playing a couple of home games a year at Campbelltown Stadium in the future, especially with Noyce at the Roosters. Wests Tigers need to play more than 4 games at Campbelltown Stadium per year. We should be playing atleast 6 games here a year. We are playing 8 home games in the inner west/Moore Park and only 4 out here which is where we get most of our juniors from.

 

[Guest]

So are the Roosters definately going to build a club in Narellan? I heard from someone they have or want an affiliation with Narellan Jets? Maybe they will take some of our juniors? I can see them playing a couple of home games a year at Campbelltown Stadium in the future, especially with Noyce at the Roosters. Wests Tigers need to play more than 4 games at Campbelltown Stadium per year. We should be playing atleast 6 games here a year. We are playing 8 home games in the inner west/Moore Park and only 4 out here which is where we get most of our juniors from.

Business alien. It's very simple, the Tigers make more money playing games out of the SFS and those financial incentives are a large reason why the Tigers now make a decent profit.